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| Motorcycle Message Board - Motorcycle USA > MotorcycleUSA.com! > General Motorcycle Chat > Buell shut down by HD? | Forum Quick Jump
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Racer1
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 735
| Posted 10/15/2009 6:39 AM (GMT -8) |   | | | |
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Casper
The teddy bear of doom,,,
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2635
| Posted 10/15/2009 6:57 AM (GMT -8) | | | Sounds like they're shutting 'er down. Well that sux.
""In a news release, Harley said it would discontinue its Buell brand, based in East Troy, and divest the Italian MV Agusta brand. The Buell decision will result in the loss of about 80 manufacturing jobs in East Troy and about 100 salaried positions.
"The fact is we must focus both our effort and our investment on the Harley-Davidson brand, as we believe this provides an optimal path to sustained, meaningful long-term growth," CEO Keith Wandell said in the release.""
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091015buellfolds.htm
""I will always be proud of what we have accomplished. It is a testimony to what a small group of passionate and inspired people can do, and with brilliant innovations, we've produced some of the best-handling bikes of all time," said Buell Chairman and Chief Technical Officer Erik Buell. "I personally look forward to exploring how I can continue to work with Harley-Davidson to bring advanced product technology to riders.""
Proving the skeptics right since 1967. | | Back to Top | | |
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CaddmannQ
Random Moto-geek
Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 17145
| Posted 10/15/2009 7:15 AM (GMT -8) | | |
GIANT RANT WARNING!
Buell said..."I will always be proud of what we have accomplished. It is a testimony to what a small group of passionate and inspired people can do, and with brilliant innovations, we've produced some of the best-handling bikes of all time," Some things are more important than gross reciepts. We can bail out GM & the big frikkin' insurance companies, and crooked stockbrokers too; but nobody can bail out an important American Icon like Buell?
The idiots running this country (and its manufacturing businesses) have no idea what's really important. That's why they're all going broke.
Back when engineers ran these companies they thrived and it was the Golden Age of Motoring.
Now Accountants and Lawyers run them and they suck at it. CLEARLY they suck at it.
Why?
Engineers are driven to build and create!
Accountants and lawyers are driven to figure loopholes, cover their asses, and calculate the odds.
If Henry Ford or Soichiro Honda had worried about calculating the odds, we'd still be riding horses.
I may not be a Buell owner, but I am a huge fan of what they represent: The fact that Americans can still be winners!
We're being sold out by a bunch of monied ^%$#*&^@@'s who dont give a crap about the USA.
I gotta stop now before I blow a gasket! I'm so mad!
"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
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Casper
The teddy bear of doom,,,
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2635
| Posted 10/15/2009 7:22 AM (GMT -8) | | I worked closely with an engineer/MBA for a while. Truly soulless little troll. I always figured he added the MBA 'cause he sucked as an engineer. Here's what I learned from him:
The purpose of a business is not to build motorcycles, employ people, make the world a better place, etc. etc. etc. The purpose of a business is to make money. If it doesn't make money, then it's not a worthwhile use of capital. Remember - a million dollars can reliably generate $40K a year just sitting in a passbook savings account. If you have invested money in a business, and the business doesn't earn you a return on your investment, you should de-invest. Take your capital elsewhere. That's just the way of the world.
It is what it is. Accountants and biz geeks rule the world, and they will sell us all, cheap.
Proving the skeptics right since 1967. | | Back to Top | | |
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Racer1
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 735
| Posted 10/15/2009 7:40 AM (GMT -8) | | I agree - while I've never personally been a potential customer of Buell I liked that they were out there, always innovative and at least in the game. I'm not sure that they should have been bailed out - simply because I'm not sure ANYONE should have been bailed out - but I am confused that HD now seems to want to throw Buell under the bus to concentrate on MV Augusta.
Eric Buell is/was a genuine American innovator/entrepreneur in the best sense of the words and HD had the opportunity to continue to nurture that and keep developing the brand. Maybe they were PO'ed when he stopped using their engines and went to Rotax? Maybe they see MV as more internationally recognized and viable brand? Maybe it was a simple number crunching exercise and an accountant had the final say by holding up a spreadsheet?
Whatever the reasons, it's a shame - for Buell owners, for the US motorcycle industry and for entrepreneurs in general who may be discouraged by the seeming lack of support and loyalty. | | Back to Top | | |
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martinjmpr
08 Triumph Scrambler
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 4196
| Posted 10/15/2009 8:20 AM (GMT -8) | | | Cadd: Sorry but I don't get the rant.
If Buell was making money, HD would keep them afloat. Obviously, they're not making money.
HD isn't in business to make people happy, it's in business to make money.
Is that a bad thing? Should they lose money just so some people can feel good about Buell still being around? That makes no sense whatsoever. Any company that did that would soon be in bankruptcy.
Personally I never cared for Buell. I thought most of their bikes were weird looking and overpriced. And I never did understand who the intended market for Buell was anyway. Sportbike riders stayed away from it because of the old-tech Harley motor, and Harley riders stayed away from it because of the sportbike looks. Once you take away sportbike riders, harley riders, and people who ride bikes in segments not serviced by Buell (dirt bikes and touring bikes - no, the Ulysses is not a dirt bike) what you have left is a microscopic segment of the motorcycle market, and once they all have a Buell, who are you going to sell to?
Now if Erik Buell wants to keep his company going and can find a backer, good for him. But didn't HD come in and bail him out because he couldn't hack it on his own?
The market is harsh, but it's never wrong. If Buell made motorcycles people wanted to ride then they'd still be a viable concern. Instead they made weird looking, overpriced bikes that were beloved by a tiny minority and ignored by everyone else.
I'm sure GeoffG and some others will jump in with a spirited defense of Buell, and I don't doubt their passion nor question their judgment, but that is missing the point: Your opinion doesn't matter. My opinion doesn't matter. Cadd's opinion doesn't matter.
The only opinions that matter are the decisions of those people who are willing to lay down their $$ and buy a motorcycle. Everything else is just background noise.
I've lost count of the number of critically praised motorcycles that gathered dust on showroom floors and ended up being sold at a loss, and I've lost count of the numbers of motorcycles that the critics have blasted, cursed and hated, that flew out of the showrooms so fast that dealers had waiting lists a year long.
The market giveth and the market taketh away. Blessed be the market. 
Martin
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 Post Edited (martinjmpr) : 10/15/2009 4:24:01 PM GMT | | Back to Top | | |
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louemc
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 15451
| Posted 10/15/2009 9:18 AM (GMT -8) | |
CaddmannQ said...
GIANT RANT WARNING!
Buell said..."I will always be proud of what we have accomplished. It is a testimony to what a small group of passionate and inspired people can do, and with brilliant innovations, we've produced some of the best-handling bikes of all time," Some things are more important than gross reciepts. We can bail out GM & the big frikkin' insurance companies, and crooked stockbrokers too; but nobody can bail out an important American Icon like Buell?
The idiots running this country (and its manufacturing businesses) have no idea what's really important. That's why they're all going broke.
Back when engineers ran these companies they thrived and it was the Golden Age of Motoring.
Now Accountants and Lawyers run them and they suck at it. CLEARLY they suck at it.
Why?
Engineers are driven to build and create!
Accountants and lawyers are driven to figure loopholes, cover their asses, and calculate the odds.
If Henry Ford or Soichiro Honda had worried about calculating the odds, we'd still be riding horses.
I may not be a Buell owner, but I am a huge fan of what they represent: The fact that Americans can still be winners!
We're being sold out by a bunch of monied ^%$#*&^@@'s who dont give a crap about the USA.
I gotta stop now before I blow a gasket! I'm so mad!
Totally agree with Your take on everything You have said. No reason to get mad though (I'm a professional, I can calmly say the same things) Getting Mad just hurts your health, and the bean counters don't give a Big Rats Ass, about your health. (unless your working for the company, and your health changes their cost of insurance, but even then your just grist in the turning wheels).
Focus the forces, Be The Force Post Edited (louemc) : 10/15/2009 8:01:18 PM GMT | | Back to Top | | |
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martinjmpr
08 Triumph Scrambler
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 4196
| Posted 10/15/2009 9:28 AM (GMT -8) | |
Casper said...Ya, I always thought Buell had it kind'a backwards. Selling sportbikes looks with Harley mechanicals. I'd rather see a super-sportster, with (as much as possible) Harley looks and Sportbike performance.
A cruiser with a sportbike drivetrain?
That's been tried before, too:
Kawasaki ZL900 Eliminator, using a modified version of the same 4 cyl water cooled motor that was in their first Ninja motorcycles.
And it didn't work out any better for them than Buell did. Quite a bit less, in fact, since the Eliminator was dropped after 3 years.
Martin
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
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Casper
The teddy bear of doom,,,
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2635
| Posted 10/15/2009 9:57 AM (GMT -8) | |
martinjmpr said...
Casper said...Ya, I always thought Buell had it kind'a backwards. Selling sportbikes looks with Harley mechanicals. I'd rather see a super-sportster, with (as much as possible) Harley looks and Sportbike performance.
A cruiser with a sportbike drivetrain?
That's been tried before, too:
(Pic snipped by Casper)
Kawasaki ZL900 Eliminator, using a modified version of the same 4 cyl water cooled motor that was in their first Ninja motorcycles.
And it didn't work out any better for them than Buell did. Quite a bit less, in fact, since the Eliminator was dropped after 3 years.
Well of course it didn't work. It's a *$#%in' Kawasaki. It was also dogs-ass ugly and a weak performer. I mean something that's the real deal with a Bar & Shield and Buell performance numbers. An R1125 with a peanut tank and some chrome. The XR1200 is "pretty fast for a Harley" and it's selling pretty decent even in this economy - I meant something like that, but more so.
Moot point now of course. 
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martinjmpr
08 Triumph Scrambler
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 4196
| Posted 10/15/2009 10:05 AM (GMT -8) | |
Casper said...
Well of course it didn't work. It's a *$#%in' Kawasaki. It was also dogs-ass ugly and a weak performer. I mean something that's the real deal with a Bar & Shield and Buell performance numbers. An R1125 with a peanut tank and some chrome. The XR1200 is "pretty fast for a Harley" and it's selling pretty decent even in this economy - I meant something like that, but more so.
Moot point now of course.
Isn't that more or less exactly what the V-rod is? A modern, high performance, water cooled motor with chrome and HD styling? Even has the HD nameplate.
And last I heard the V-rod was dismissed by the HD faithful because of its high performance cred, not in spite of it.
The error is in assuming that sportbike-like performance is what cruiser riders want.
They don't, and they've shown it with their buying decisions for more than 20 years.
Martin
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
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martinjmpr
08 Triumph Scrambler
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 4196
| Posted 10/15/2009 10:21 AM (GMT -8) | |
Casper said...If you think a V-rod looks like a Harley,,, well... 
Did you see my pictures from Sturgis?
This was at the gas station near Badlands National Park. When he pulled in I was sure it was just a run-of-the mill HD Road glide (big, fixed-fairing touring bike with dual headlights.) Then I looked at it sideways:
Yes, it's a V-rod. I don't know the story but it looks to me like the Road Glide fairing and bags were grafted onto the V-rod frame.
My point being: HD could make the V-rod look like a "Harley" if they wanted to, and it would certainly be less work to do so than trying to make a Buell look like one.
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
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Casper
The teddy bear of doom,,,
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 2635
| Posted 10/15/2009 10:31 AM (GMT -8) | |
martinjmpr said...
Casper said...If you think a V-rod looks like a Harley,,, well...
Did you see my pictures from Sturgis?
This was at the gas station near Badlands National Park. When he pulled in I was sure it was just a run-of-the mill HD Road glide (big, fixed-fairing touring bike with dual headlights.) Then I looked at it sideways:
<pic snipped again>
Yes, it's a V-rod. I don't know the story but it looks to me like the Road Glide fairing and bags were grafted onto the V-rod frame.
My point being: HD could make the V-rod look like a "Harley" if they wanted to, and it would certainly be less work to do so than trying to make a Buell look like one. Well, you've proven that a determined customer can modify a V-rod to look like a Harley.  Yes, they probably could do it, and they could have done it with the Buell. But they didn't. Again,,, moot point now.
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martinjmpr
08 Triumph Scrambler
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 4196
| Posted 10/15/2009 10:33 AM (GMT -8) | | | The dilemma for Harley is this: How far can they stray from the established design (45 degree single-crankpin, air-cooled, pushrod v-twin with separate transmission [on the big twins]) without alienating the faithful? It seems the V-rod went too far and therefore is shunned by the HD community.
OTOH, the wheels of time don't stop turning. It's going to be more and more difficult for anybody to sell an air-cooled bike because of the difficulty of meeting increasingly stringent emissions and noise requirements.
Of course, the Japanese companies don't seem to have any problems making water cooled V-twins that still evoke the image of the classic HD, but it's also true that no Japanese bike will ever be a Harley, no matter how hard they try.
Will HD be able to introduce a modern water-cooled bike and still maintain their iconic status? Or will the end of the air-cooled HDs mark the end of HD as a unique and distinct entity in the motorcycle market and make them "just another motorcycle company?"
Martin
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
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Andy VH
Forum Moderator
Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 3999
| Posted 10/15/2009 10:37 AM (GMT -8) | | Wow, what a sad day for motorcycling and further proof how hard the economy has hit. See Erik's obviously passionate goodbye here: http://www.buell.com/en_us/
Back in April of 94, I talked my way into Buell Motorcycle after two interviews with Erik. I still remember the excitement in this small driven group of people. I took a job as product manager for Parts and Accessories. But, a much better ($$$) offer came in a week later that I simply could not have afforded to pass up. It lead to the great job I have now, but I still wonder what I could have done and enjoyed at Buell. Sure, I'd be iin tough shape right now, like the many good people at Buell. But it would have been a fun ride!
I hope that Buell, the inovation and passion, are not gone from motorcycling forever. He did prove it could be done, but the markets speak louder than passion can overcome.
Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
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GAJ
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 4763
| Posted 10/15/2009 10:41 AM (GMT -8) | | As J said; the economy is being rough on dealers and their ability to have bikes on the floor.
I'm guessing that there was little support from HD dealers to floor a brand they were ambivalent about in the first place.
Maybe this will actually be a GOOD thing for Buell.
In a few years, perhaps, he might re emerge without HD holding him back or looking over his shoulder.
At least I hope so.
Good news for most Buell owners, engine parts should be readily available...except for the Rotax, of course. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tros
Global Moderator
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 7309
| Posted 10/15/2009 11:08 AM (GMT -8) | | It is certainly bad news to hear that Buell will be closing it's doors. It's down-right shocking to hear that Harley Davidson is so quickly parting ways with MV Augusta... It strikes me as odd to buy something, and turn around and sell it so soon. Both brands add an interesting mix to the equation of motorcycle choices, and I hope to see them both somehow survive this and move on...
With that said, in a business sense, I can see why Harley Davidson might make this move (Well, Buell... I still don't understand why a company would buy another company, and then turn around and sell it within a year). I'm sure their logic behind having multiple brands was to create and sell motorcycles that would otherwise "tarnish" Harley Davidson's image of traditional cruisers, but still get the profits from these other companies; basically selling stuff they knew they couldn't sell with the HD logo slapped on the side. Apparently the sales figures aren't what they wanted, and are cutting their loose ends.
What I find very curious is whether or not this is a move to improve the company financially, or if this is a sign of a company tucking tail and running, knowing the economy is going to continue to take a nose dive.
It's a shame to see the way things are heading.
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R
"People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost."
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have". - Thomas Jefferson
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