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| Motorcycle Message Board - Motorcycle USA > MotorcycleUSA.com! > General Motorcycle Chat > Buell shut down by HD? | Forum Quick Jump
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wisart
Registered Member
      
Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 294
| Posted 10/21/2009 8:58 AM (GMT -8) |   | | If Harley owns Buell then they own the patents. | | Back to Top | | |
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louemc
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 15451
| Posted 10/21/2009 9:33 AM (GMT -8) | |
CaddmannQ said...
RedDog said...
... and what about MV Agusta. Shall we buy it? Yes, and move it to Iraq. There's lots of folks looking for jobs there.
We can market the first Iraqi-Italian sport bike.
I can see the Ad slogan now....This Rocket is a bomb.
Saying this Bomb is a Rocket, might be used outside the country though.
Focus the forces, Be The Force | | Back to Top | | |
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martinjmpr
08 Triumph Scrambler
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 4196
| Posted 10/22/2009 6:22 AM (GMT -8) | |
GeoffG said...
Jay Mack said...
Does Harley own all the patents, assuming there are any, that go into a Buell, or can Erik go and start up again using his old mass-centralization tricks. As Cadd says, depends on the arrangements--but a number of the important patents were filed before H-D bought in, so... I think the main problem here might be Erik himself. He is not only near retirement age, it looks like he will remain on H-D's payroll--this might be a move specifically intended to keep him from trying to start up BMC again. On the other hand...the facility is there, the workforce is there, could they move MV Agusta production to East Troy, Wi?
All well and good but who's going to buy them? Think about this: Buell couldn't make money when they had the biggest MC seller in the US pushing them. How can they make money when they don't have that push?
Or is the thought that Buell will become a boutique bike outfit like CMC, Confederate, Bourget, etc? I could see them "suceeding" on that level but I'm not sure selling 50-100 bikes a year would constitute the kind of "success" that the Buell supporters want.
Seems to me that in the motorcycle biz, you can either be really big, or really small, but there's really no place in the market for the in-betweens.
Martin
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
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jclax01
The world is ruled by Damned Dirty Apes
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 2555
| Posted 10/22/2009 9:00 AM (GMT -8) | |
martinjmpr said...
Buell couldn't make money when they had the biggest MC seller in the US pushing them. How can they make money when they don't have that push?
That may have well been the reason behind the failure..who knows. I personally think the marketing for Buell's was horrible. how many TV or print ad's has anyone seen for Buell? Although motorcycle ad's are not always mainstream, I am sure that everyone saw the Honda Fury ad's or the victory ad's. I am sure that most everyone on this board reads, recieves or has seen a motorcycle magazine. Anyone ever see a Buell ad? I can't remember ever seeing one. I do remember those cool Yamaha ad's about making it your own with the star motorcycle line.
When you have a product that does not sell on name alone such as Buell, then you have to hit the pavement and advertise.
I mean they advertised the death out of the honda fury and they sell like hotcakes. Trust me, that fury would not sell on rep, because its a peice of junk in my opinion. Please don't flame me for that one.
Ride Hard or Stay home
1994 Kaw Vulcan 88
2007 Piago (my wifes punk ass 50cc scooter)
1986 kaw Vulcan 750(rebooted and reloaded) | | Back to Top | | |
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Rich_S
MCUSA Staff
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 126
| Posted 10/22/2009 12:37 PM (GMT -8) | |
martinjmpr said...
GeoffG said...
Jay Mack said...
Does Harley own all the patents, assuming there are any, that go into a Buell, or can Erik go and start up again using his old mass-centralization tricks. As Cadd says, depends on the arrangements--but a number of the important patents were filed before H-D bought in, so... I think the main problem here might be Erik himself. He is not only near retirement age, it looks like he will remain on H-D's payroll--this might be a move specifically intended to keep him from trying to start up BMC again. On the other hand...the facility is there, the workforce is there, could they move MV Agusta production to East Troy, Wi?
All well and good but who's going to buy them? Think about this: Buell couldn't make money when they had the biggest MC seller in the US pushing them. How can they make money when they don't have that push?
Or is the thought that Buell will become a boutique bike outfit like CMC, Confederate, Bourget, etc? I could see them "suceeding" on that level but I'm not sure selling 50-100 bikes a year would constitute the kind of "success" that the Buell supporters want.
Seems to me that in the motorcycle biz, you can either be really big, or really small, but there's really no place in the market for the in-betweens.
Buell had the biggest MC seller pushing them, away from the show room and in to a corner where no one could see them. From what I hear most dealers wanted nothing to do with Buell. It was a joke to them since people came to their dealerships for Harley style bikes not sportbikes/street bikes from some company they didn't know.
If Buell had a seperate dealer network it would have potentially sold slightly better but we may not know now. I think it was really in the hands of the dealers if the bike sold or not and if you push everyone to a harley instead of a buell ofcourse you won't sell any.
I think like Jclax said, they didn't advertise much but you can't go to almost any site with out seeing a harley ad. Its also possible they just didn't know how to start from the ground level with a new brand and market it since harley has a built in cultural advertising style. Where as buell is reletively unknown and would take a very skillful campaign to get them up and running which I doubt harley felt was worth the time and funds. Its like kids cartoon shows, it can be very popular but if it isn't selling toys and merchandise it isn't worth keeping around. The extra stuff is what brings in the cash not so much what inspires it.
I've read some of the comments our article Buell Out of Business has gathered and seen some very interesting ideas and theories such as Harley potentially closing the buell brand to possibly reviving the bikes under the harley-davidson name?
Another idea is that they've ceased production and closed the doors but haven't really terminated the brand. More like put their operations on hold till and undisclosed time. Possibly to wait till the next quarter to sell off the company so they can maintain potential profits made this quarter. Which makes sense, you aren't paying employees, not paying for materials to build bikes, and the back log of bikes are still selling. I think there is a deeper plan here by HD, mostly worrying about their pocket book rather than the reputation of a motorcycle brand. If they were smart they'd sell the company to some one else and pocket the cash. Really i'd imagine there isn't much crossing over technology wise from Buell to HD. I think for HD they are just waiting for finacial timing to work out in favor of selling the brand.
I dunno, just my thoughts. What I think is kind of funny and tells you how "sudden" this decision was:
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jclax01
The world is ruled by Damned Dirty Apes
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 2555
| Posted 10/23/2009 4:12 AM (GMT -8) | |
Desmolicious said...
jclax01 said...
I mean they advertised the death out of the honda fury and they sell like hotcakes.
Are you serious? I live in LA, and have yet to see one!
they can't keep them on the floor in some dealerships. sales have slowed down but when they first hit the stores, people were buying them. I saw at Donnellson that someone traded a really hot M109 for a fury. Crazy.
I have seen a couple of them on the roads. I think they will attract the possers (yuppies that want to look cool on a chopper), real riders know that the fury is a piece of crap
Ride Hard or Stay home
1994 Kaw Vulcan 88
2007 Piago (my wifes punk ass 50cc scooter)
1986 kaw Vulcan 750(rebooted and reloaded) | | Back to Top | | |
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wisart
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 294
| Posted 10/23/2009 5:35 AM (GMT -8) | | | Isn't a chopper just for show? How does the Fury not stack up against other choppers? I'm not really sure what draws people to those types of bikes. I've only seen one on the road with plates in my area. | | Back to Top | | |
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jclax01
The world is ruled by Damned Dirty Apes
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 2555
| Posted 10/23/2009 5:49 AM (GMT -8) | |
CaddmannQ said...While I doubt that Honda has ever built a "piece of crap" in recent memory, recent tests show the Fury is no equal to boutique choppers costing 3x as much.
Caddmann, I was surprised too. Its not a good bike at all in my opinion. Peice of crap may be strong, but really its pretty bad.
Ride Hard or Stay home
1994 Kaw Vulcan 88
2007 Piago (my wifes punk ass 50cc scooter)
1986 kaw Vulcan 750(rebooted and reloaded) | | Back to Top | | |
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Racer1
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 735
| Posted 10/23/2009 9:17 AM (GMT -8) | | jclax01 said...Desmolicious said...jclax01 said...
I mean they advertised the death out of the honda fury and they sell like hotcakes.
Are you serious? I live in LA, and have yet to see one! they can't keep them on the floor in some dealerships. sales have slowed down but when they first hit the stores, people were buying them. I saw at Donnellson that someone traded a really hot M109 for a fury. Crazy. I have seen a couple of them on the roads. I think they will attract the possers (yuppies that want to look cool on a chopper), real riders know that the fury is a piece of crap
I think everyone that buys a chopper buys it to "look cool" - they are poseurs by definition... and seriously... "real riders" don't buy choppers - period.
Seeing as how people buy choppers to get looked at, it would seem to me that the Fury does the job as well as any other really - 1300cc is fine for a bar to bar bauble and it probably is more comfortable (very relative term) and has better reliability and warranty than most custom choppers. If it's a "piece of crap" because it's not as shiny, or chromed, or cartooned-out as more expensive choppers, then I must be missing the point - like anything else sold for looks (jewelry, watches, clothes, etc) you'd expect less bling for 1/3rd the price - but that doesn't make the cheaper variant "crap" - just less expensive. | | Back to Top | | |
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Desmolicious
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2004
Total Posts : 4618
| Posted 10/23/2009 9:49 AM (GMT -8) | |
CaddmannQ said...While I doubt that Honda has ever built a "piece of crap" in recent memory, recent tests show the Fury is no equal to boutique choppers costing 3x as much. Big surprise there, eh? I've only seen a few around here, but I expect they'll be fairly popular bikes considering the economy and all.
Either Cycle World or Motorcyclist tested the Fury vs the Yam Raider.
Raider blew it away on all counts. Better finish, less plastic, better chrome, better motor/brakes/suspension/handling etc etc
The thing the Fury needed was to have fantastic finish and componentry, as a chopper is an eye candy bike. So for it to fail on the one thing that it needed...
Børk! Børk! Børk! | | Back to Top | | |
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jclax01
The world is ruled by Damned Dirty Apes
Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 2555
| Posted 10/23/2009 10:39 AM (GMT -8) | |
So....Your part of America is where the non-real riders are?
My suspicions are confirmed 
possers to my left possers to my right lou 
Ride Hard or Stay home
1994 Kaw Vulcan 88
2007 Piago (my wifes punk ass 50cc scooter)
1986 kaw Vulcan 750(rebooted and reloaded) | | Back to Top | | |
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CaddmannQ
Random Moto-geek
Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 17145
| Posted 10/23/2009 10:40 AM (GMT -8) | |
Desmolicious said...Raider blew it away on all counts. Better finish, less plastic, better chrome, better motor/brakes/suspension/handling etc etc
People are far too critical in this business, and seem to use the phrase "Blew it away" with great abandon.
Because the Yamaha was better doesn't make the Fury a piece of crap.
No matter what bike you name, there's a better one out there somewhere.
That doesn't make things crap.
"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
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