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| Motorcycle Message Board - Motorcycle USA > MotorcycleUSA.com! > General Motorcycle Chat > Buell shut down by HD? | Forum Quick Jump
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GeoffG
Harley Ninja!
      
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 9196
| Posted 10/26/2009 1:29 PM (GMT -8) |   | lawrence1 said...
I'm not buying that it's all Harleys fault for Buell's demise. So some (or most) dealers stuck them in the back and tried to steer buyers to other models, but really, what kind of rider walks in to look at sport type bikes and ends up signing for a Crossbones? Advertising or not, ultimately the bike has to stand on it's own merits. Perhaps the blame should be placed on the Japs for offering a superior product at a better price point? Would a return to tariffs have helped Buell?
You make some valid points about marketing, but...this isn't about that. Buell was making a profit--they WERE profitable. H-D is simply downsizing, cutting off their nose to spite their face; apparently, their finance division is taking a bath, and they have to limit their assets.
(As far as the comparison between Buells and other brands, I have yet to see anything that would lead me to believe a Japanese bike is a "superior product." I've owned both, I prefer my Buell, thanks.) | | Back to Top | | |
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tastroman
Daelim S-2 250
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 152
| Posted 10/26/2009 5:06 PM (GMT -8) | | GeoffG said...lawrence1 said...
I'm not buying that it's all Harleys fault for Buell's demise. So some (or most) dealers stuck them in the back and tried to steer buyers to other models, but really, what kind of rider walks in to look at sport type bikes and ends up signing for a Crossbones? Advertising or not, ultimately the bike has to stand on it's own merits. Perhaps the blame should be placed on the Japs for offering a superior product at a better price point? Would a return to tariffs have helped Buell? You make some valid points about marketing, but...this isn't about that. Buell was making a profit--they WERE profitable. H-D is simply downsizing, cutting off their nose to spite their face; apparently, their finance division is taking a bath, and they have to limit their assets. (As far as the comparison between Buells and other brands, I have yet to see anything that would lead me to believe a Japanese bike is a "superior product." I've owned both, I prefer my Buell, thanks.)
I hope your right. I pick up a 2009 Ulysses Wednesday. My 1st new bike. | | Back to Top | | |
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sfarson
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 116
| Posted 10/26/2009 11:09 PM (GMT -8) | | | tastro... Have no second thoughts or hesitations. The Uly is an outstanding bike. | | Back to Top | | |
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GeoffG
Harley Ninja!
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 9196
| Posted 10/27/2009 8:03 AM (GMT -8) | | sfarson is right, the Uly is a great bike--as are all the XB series.
Desmo has a valid point, too--although I made the comment that Buell was making a profit, they weren't making enough of a profit to shore up H-D (keep in mind, H-D as a whole was not making a profit). Hey, Buell is a small company, and they were operating on a pretty thin edge. And a lot of people didn't want a Buell, which is understandable; they don't appeal to everyone. The majority of sportbike riders are like Lawrence, they equate horsepower with performance, and by that criteria it's true that no Buell is gonna measure up to a Big Four superbike in straight-line speed. However, if what you want is a fun ride on public roads, then a Buell delivers in spades, for many of us...unfortunately, there aren't that "many" of us 
One of the stumbles Buell made might have been the 1125R...people wanted a liquid-cooled Buell, and Buell responded. But the bike had some teething issues, and a LOT of people didn't like the appearance; kinda like Ducati's 999 series, the bike may not have been as much a step forward as hoped (and the whole AMA "Daytona Sportbike" series thing kinda sent the wrong message, too--as I said all along, the bike should have been competing in the "Superbike" class, and it looks like Buell agreed as that's where the 1125RR was intended to compete). Unlike Ducati, though, Buell is not going to have the chance to fix the problem. | | Back to Top | | |
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Desmolicious
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2004
Total Posts : 4618
| Posted 10/27/2009 10:09 AM (GMT -8) | |
GeoffG said...
(keep in mind, H-D as a whole was not making a profit). Not true. Harley is still making a profit, their net income has dropped 71% over the last quarter. Huge drop, but the Japanese bike mfgs are actually in worse shape but are 'ok' because their moto divisions are part of larger entities.
Third Quarter and Nine-Month Results
Net income for the third quarter was $26.5 million, compared to $166.5 million in the third quarter of 2008, on revenue of $1.12 billion, compared to $1.42 billion in the year-ago period. Diluted earnings per share were $0.11 for the third quarter of 2009 and $0.71 in the year-ago period.
Through nine months, Harley-Davidson, Inc. reported net income of $163.6 million, down 71.6 percent and diluted earnings per share of $0.70, down 71.4 percent from the year-ago period. Revenue through nine months was $3.57 billion, down 17.1 percent from the same period last year.
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/HD_News/Company/newsarticle.jsp?locale=en_US&articleLink=News/0581_press_release.hdnews
By getting rid of Buell, Harley is shoring up their business. If people did not want to see Buell go, then they should have bought Buells instead of whatever else they ride.
Børk! Børk! Børk! | | Back to Top | | |
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CrossStateLines
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 34
| Posted 10/27/2009 4:23 PM (GMT -8) | | | Things are bad all over. VW might buyout Ducati, too. | | Back to Top | | |
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iman501
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 227
| Posted 10/28/2009 7:08 PM (GMT -8) | | i've been waiting to go to the harley dealership for about a week now, i emailed them, and they have some decent deals going on for their remaining buells, the only bike they have that i'm interested in is a xb9s lightning, in cherry bomb translucent red, and i think its pretty sharp looking! i want to go do a demo ride, seeing as i've never ridden a buell before, and perhaps if its a bike that i can convince my dad is worth the price they are asking, then i'll look more into buying a new xb instead of buying used (which i was originally planning on doing).
I havent been able to get to the dealer yet though, b/c the weather has been to rainy the past 7 days or so here, and the two nice days we've had, i was busy working on my eagle project, so hopefully the forcast is nice out this saturday so i can go demo ride the lightning!
bikes dont leak oil, they mark their territory | | Back to Top | | |
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tastroman
Daelim S-2 250
Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 152
| Posted 10/30/2009 6:20 AM (GMT -8) | | Sorry for the attention whoring but I just had to submit a picture of my 1st "new" motorcycle. After owning in line 4's since the early 80's this thing is going to take some getting used to. I love the looks and sound but its the seating position that sold me. I'll give it a review once I log some more miles.
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GeoffG
Harley Ninja!
Date Joined Jun 2003
Total Posts : 9196
| Posted 10/30/2009 6:46 AM (GMT -8) | | Desmolicious said...
Not true. Harley is still making a profit, their net income has dropped 71% over the last quarter. Huge drop, but the Japanese bike mfgs are actually in worse shape but are 'ok' because their moto divisions are part of larger entities.
...By getting rid of Buell, Harley is shoring up their business. If people did not want to see Buell go, then they should have bought Buells instead of whatever else they ride.
OK, even worse--H-D simply lost some profit, they're still in the black...(as I understand it, sales only dropped 17%--the difference between that and the 71% profit loss has to do with their finance division).
As for saying people "should have bought Buells," well a lot of us DID--as I said, Buell was operating at a profit, which means they were selling bikes. Keep in mind, they're only 3% of H-D, so you can't expect to see one on every streetcorner.
I had a good discussion with a Harley shop owner yesterday (I stopped in to check out the Buells on sale--the Ulysses XT and 1125R and CR, and he also had a couple of Blasts). He told me that the Buell closure was a complete surprise--he has order forms for the Buells that Harley wanted him to buy for next season, which he got only a few weeks ago. He also had some not-s-nice things to say about the new CEO, and expressed some concern that H-D will now be run by "bean-counters" who don't ride motorcycles and aren't part of the culture...
That XT is attractive, though! | | Back to Top | | |
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