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reaperR
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   Posted 8/27/2009 7:39 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
hello I am so confused now everyone i kow seems to ride some prefer 600's that they learned on and some ride hyabusas and have been riding forever. the MSF course instructer even said that a gsxr 600 is a good beginner bike with a mature person on it. I have been a Traffic accident investigator for awhile now and have been to numerous fatalities involving motorcycles. i know im weary but im just trying to figure out why everyone i know says 600 but no bigger and seems everyone here agrees a 500 is prolly the highest you want to go. I will not have the money to go out in a year or 2 and buy another bike. With that being said im married with 2 kids and my family is everything to me. Ive given up pretty much everything else between being in the army, college and managing my home life. im looking to get a bike i can take out on the weekends fill up the tank and just ride on to clear my head and have a good ride with my friends. right now i have the money and my wife even wants me to buy new she said get thhe 600 due to not needing to upgrade. I guess what im asking is 600 too dangerous for someone who is mature not looking for the speed and will be riding on a military post only for a good while. I love the look of the gsxr6, 2007 in black actually. im 5'7'' bout 168lbs i also want ot be able to ride with my friends that have 600's and liter bikes. not 100 mph but up on the highway and backroads.

any reccomendations towards make madel of bike would really be appreciated as this is going to be my 1 outlet for relaxation... I cant mess this up ! thanks for your help
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Jimmymadass125
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   Posted 1/6/2010 10:38 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey Cheddy,

I'm not sure of the reason why some people prefer larger bikes to begin on. maybe they have a little more confidence they will learn quickly and safely. I've come across a nice mix. It's the new Sachs MadAss 125 available only this last summer. While it has a small displacement, it will travel at speed. And since it is so well made and light, it's a great starter bike that you won't tire of. Jimmymadass125

Post Edited By Moderator (lionlady) : 6/22/2010 10:46:53 PM GMT

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Andy VH
Where is the earth shattering kaboom!?



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   Posted 1/6/2010 4:19 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Because it is a lot more than just the size of the engine. It is more the style of the bike, and most beginners and riders of littel experience go for the GSXR600 bikes because they look hot. But they are NOT a good beginner/learner bike, and I don't agree with the MSF instructor saying "the MSF course instructer even said that a gsxr 600 is a good beginner bike with a mature person on it". Being as I am a 17+ year MSF instructor myself and I have taught over 3,000 students, and I have seen many a rider on GSXR (sportbike is a better definition) that really didn't know how to ride or were on the right bike to learn. Saying "with a mature person on it" is WAY too broad of a statement to qualify any bike for a beginner/learner. Maturity has little to do with it. Mistakes made by new riders can result in much greater reaction from the bike with the sportbike styles like the GSXR.

Bikes like a GSXR, by the nature of their design, seating position (ass high, head down, or head tipped back to see forward, arms straight supporting the upper body weight), peaky engine power character, quick steering, VERY powerful brakes, are simply not factors suited well to learning to ride a bike. If it was a GSXR400 it would still apply for those factors. Also, all that racy bodywork is VERY expensive to replace and repair. A gsxr tipping over at slow speed on the driveway can easily cost over $500 to get repaired.

Engine size is only ONE factor to consider. A bike like a Suzuki SV650 actually has a bigger engine than does a GSXR600. Yet it is a better beginner bike because the engine power character is much better suited for easier riding. Also, and especially so, the riding position being more upright, is MUCH better for learning cycle control. And good control is THE thing that beginners and inexperienced riders must learn first.

Comments like "been riding Hayabusas and been riding forever" again is a statement, to me, of little meaning. Unless that rider has over 100,000 miles of riding experience in all sorts of riding conditions, that is just the point of being an experienced rider. My guess is those "been riding forever" riders have less than 25,000 miles of experience. Sorry to sound so cynical and judgemental, but the fact is so many people hear from someone "I've been riding a lot" when actually they have not, and I have seen many a rider who claims many years of riding experience, that really had poor or marginal riding skills.

 


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
Get MSF trained, check out: http://www.msf-usa.org

Post Edited (Andy VH) : 1/6/2010 11:24:21 PM GMT

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Tim57
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   Posted 1/16/2010 10:17 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Imagine my surprise, 40 years after tooling around the farm on my brother's Benelli 50cc, that today a 600cc V-Twin is considered smallish!
I'm scheduled in an MFS beginners' course next month, but surprised myself today by opting for a(n inline-4) 900cc 1982 Honda Custom over a 1983 650 Honda Nighthawk. It's a 600-pound bike that will produce 80-90HP, and maintain highway speed under 5000 RPMs -- with a clocked top end over 140mph! (I chuckled at the speedometer that goes up to 85) -- but it sure felt and sounded good when I straddled and revved her.
Now, mind you, I'm a 52-year-old 'rookie' who's never laid a black stripe on a pavement in any car I've ever driven. Heck, my current auto only rates 107HP! I've got no real use for the HP and the speed of this well-kept oldie. I just want a stable, substantial bike that can go slow without working too hard, that I'm not going to want to replace as soon as I'm comfortable on it. And, like I said, I'm an ol' farm boy -- a little mechanical maintenance is a small price to pay for the savings on a sturdy, older bike!
My point, I guess, is a lot depends on how much you can trust yourself -- and that's a function of maturity. Me -- I KNOW I'm not going to twist the throttle to warp speed before I'm ready. Probably won't even do it AFTER I'm ready! But I know some folks, too, who wouldn't be safe on my brother's old Benelli.
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Casper
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   Posted 2/26/2010 12:31 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tim57 said...
Imagine my surprise, 40 years after tooling around the farm on my brother's Benelli 50cc, that today a 600cc V-Twin is considered smallish!
I'm scheduled in an MFS beginners' course next month, but surprised myself today by opting for a(n inline-4) 900cc 1982 Honda Custom over a 1983 650 Honda Nighthawk. It's a 600-pound bike that will produce 80-90HP, and maintain highway speed under 5000 RPMs -- with a clocked top end over 140mph! (I chuckled at the speedometer that goes up to 85) -- but it sure felt and sounded good when I straddled and revved her.
Now, mind you, I'm a 52-year-old 'rookie' who's never laid a black stripe on a pavement in any car I've ever driven. Heck, my current auto only rates 107HP! I've got no real use for the HP and the speed of this well-kept oldie. I just want a stable, substantial bike that can go slow without working too hard, that I'm not going to want to replace as soon as I'm comfortable on it. And, like I said, I'm an ol' farm boy -- a little mechanical maintenance is a small price to pay for the savings on a sturdy, older bike!
My point, I guess, is a lot depends on how much you can trust yourself -- and that's a function of maturity. Me -- I KNOW I'm not going to twist the throttle to warp speed before I'm ready. Probably won't even do it AFTER I'm ready! But I know some folks, too, who wouldn't be safe on my brother's old Benelli.
Ya,,, not really what we're talking about here.
 
1982 Honda CB900 Custom is to 2010 Suzuki GSX-R 600,
 
as,
 
1964 Buick Electra 225 is to - - - - a catapult.  Ok, the space shuttle.  No,,, what's that thing Don Garlits drives?
 
Hehehe,,,  Nice choice, fine old bike.  Enjoy.


Proving the skeptics right since 1967.

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skyhawk04kilo
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   Posted 2/26/2010 8:29 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tim57 said...
My point, I guess, is a lot depends on how much you can trust yourself -- and that's a function of maturity. Me -- I KNOW I'm not going to twist the throttle to warp speed before I'm ready. Probably won't even do it AFTER I'm ready! But I know some folks, too, who wouldn't be safe on my brother's old Benelli.


Maturity is irrelevant. Let me explain further. There are two kinds of people that get killed on a 600 (or any powerful bike).

1. Immature people (age irrelevant) who try to show off.
2. Mature people (age irrelevant) who make mistakes.

If you're in the first group, it doesn't matter what you buy. A 250 will kill you just as fast as a 600 will if you're doing something stupid to show off.

The second group is just as dangerous as the first, but for a different reason. These guys have great intentions but they're inexperienced, and they're riding something very unforgiving. They will inevitably make mistakes, because everybody does. Since they're on an unforgiving bike, they're going to get hurt.

Forget maturity. It all comes down to experience. You want to be on something that doesn't get out of control when you make mistakes. You want something forgiving. The 250s and 500s are forgiving bikes, and that's why all the experienced guys recommend them. You can start on a 90hp, 600lb Honda Custom, but I promise you it will bite you much harder than a 250 when (when, not if) you make mistakes. Once you've made your mistakes and learned from them, then you step up to the warp speed bikes.


2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200S
1978 Yamaha XS650 Special

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darkrider
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   Posted 3/17/2010 5:54 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have been riding since last Thanksgiving, and studying or reading all the motorcycle info I can get...

I wonder why more new readers don't get 250's ??

Mine is a Suzuki GZ250. It is not fast as far as motorcycles go, but it will cruise at 65 easy, has plenty of pep, and getsaround 80mpg.(that always gets a reaction from SUV drivers!)
It is light, easy to handle and very comfortable. I am not large (5'7 155 lbs.) so maybe most people are heavier and or larger.
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GFAST
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   Posted 3/23/2010 5:46 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
SOMEONE ONCE SAID THAT THEIR ARE TWO TYPE OF RIDERS "THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DOWN AND THOSE THAT ARE GOING TO GO DOWN. yeah

NO SERIOUSLY INSURANCE COMPANYS SEE 500CC AS A BEGINNER BIKE FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T RIDDEN A SPORT BIKE BEFORE AND REWARD YOU WITH A LOWER PREMIUM.

ON THE OTHER HAND YES THE 600CC ARE ALOT FASTER TODAY.

KEEP THE RUBBER SIDE DWN
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kitchen87
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   Posted 9/16/2010 12:08 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm newbie in motorcycle world. I just use 100cc motorcycle. But for my next bike, I think want to by a 900cc sportbike..
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FatboyDero
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   Posted 9/16/2010 3:52 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think people get hung up on the CC's to much. I took the Ridersedge program they use the Buell Blast 500CC's to me which I am a new rider was so small that I was almost sitting on the rear fender I am 6 foot 3 inches. I am not a sport bike rider I have no interest in going fast. my first bike is a HD Fatboy 1450 cc's so far including last nights run I have put on 400 miles in 4 days. I have no problem handling the bike bu yet I have not gone over 60 MPH and chances are I will not.

But then again I am not 21 years old looking to show off, well I do like to show off but when the bike is parked and showing all the chrome.

I say what ever the rider is ok with, ride with in your limits and skills.
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Casper
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   Posted 9/16/2010 5:27 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok, let's say this again.

A motorcycle is a machine. By manipulating the controls, you tell the machine what to do. A modern sportbike is an amazing machine - and if you tell it to do something stupid, it will do it - immediately, precisely, ferociously.  It is a close replica of a real race machine, made to earn a top 1% rider a living on the track.  Would you let a kid with a learner's permit drive Dale Jr's stock car?

Newbie riders are still learning, developing skills. They tend to make mistakes, be 'ham-fisted' with the controls. If newbie-newb gets on a 500 Ninja and gives it way too much gas, he has told the bike to accelerate to 100 mph right now. The wee Ninja has maybe 40 some HP and it can't do that, so it won't, saving newb's ass.

OTOH - if newbie newb makes that same mistake on a Gixxer 6, the bike has more like 100HP and is capable of doing close to 100 in 1st gear, and it will - and it will do it quicker than the untrained-unpracticed rider can handle. It will throw you down and stomp on you, right now. It's just a machine and it doesn't care. It can't.

Youtube is filled (filled!) with vids of this. The insurance auctions are flooded with super-low mileage sportbikes with shredded plastic and twisted front ends. In that all critical 'first hour', a high performance sportbike is a really really bad idea. Yes, some people do it and do Ok, but the odds suck.  That's why insurance for an 18 year old on a Gixxer is more expensive than the bike payment.  roll


The world's a funny place,
full of funny people,
Doing funny things.

Post Edited (Casper) : 9/16/2010 12:38:05 PM GMT

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Smitty
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   Posted 1/18/2011 12:09 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Allow me to say that back in the late 40s or early 50s 75% of more of the beginners started out on a 125cc BSA Bantam, Royal Englied Flea, or some Villiers powered 125cc bike.  Some progressed up to 350cc though some later on went to 500cc.  Then a few of us also purchased a 1000cc OHV V-twin Vincent HRD.  Definatly not for around town but hwy use.
 
As part owner of a few m/c shops the above continued on till British bikes started to fad out of the business.  The income was the big four in JPN being lovely 50cc to 55cc to 90cc almost step through frames to some 125cc to 150cc & then in came the Honda 305 to later yrs of larger bikes.
 
As for power just think of the Vincent with everyone claiming it could do 150mph, but it could not for the major Vincent Rapid B or C were of 49 hp, but if you had the cash & waiting time you could order in a BLACK SHADOW with all of 54cc.
 
Just think of the 500cc bikes of to-day with more power then the Vincent HRD.
 
Do some of you interested in purchasing a m/c my suggesting if you have a second-hand book store then visit it & you might find a batch of USED m/c mags that will feed you a lot.  Still most of the chaps above have fed you a lot of info about some of the modern m/cs of these times.
 
Also since you are talking about a 600cc then do not think of a 600cc Cruiser as having the explosive power as the sportbike 600cc-----which comes on like a ruddy bomb under you to finally remember any sportbike is a non-forgiving bike to beginners while the 250cc & the 500cc
 
So cheddy mentioned the 250cc or 500cc parallel twins are idea AND as for the instructor that told someone. at the course, that the ideal bike for a beginner is a sportbike of 600cc that man needs his head examined with a dull axe.


Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

Post Edited (Smitty) : 1/18/2011 7:12:23 PM GMT

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DavidFernandes
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   Posted 4/20/2011 12:56 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
500s handle properly for a beginner and 600s demand more of your every riding skill and if your are a beginner then your riding the wrong horse with a 600..........jumpin

Post Edited By Moderator (Rich_S) : 4/20/2011 4:13:39 PM GMT

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kevin mowen
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   Posted 6/10/2011 6:28 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Four  years ago, I was working 60 miles south of home.  Daily commutes were approximately 125 miles.  Then, high gas prices hit.  A major portion of my budget was going in the tank instead of in my pocket.

To reduce the strain on my budget I decided to buy a motorcycle.  I researched what was the best beginner’s motorcycle.  I had previous experience on trail bikes and one street bike, but I had not ridden a street bike in over 25 years.  I felt inexperienced, and that a small motorcycle and the MSF course was the best way to safely start riding again.

I read numerous reviews of starter motorcycles, and went to dealers to look at the various recommended models.  The Rebel 250 was too small, the Suzuki GZ250 was OK, but also felt small.  Then I read reviews for the Virago 250.  It didn’t look or feel small like the other 250’s, and its v-twin seemed to perform (and sound) better.  I was never in the market for a “sport” bike.  I knew that a high center of gravity, short wheelbase, and the power and speed available was dangerous for a beginner. 

I found a used Virago 250 in a town about 100 miles south.  But on the day I was to pick it up, the friend with a truck was not available.  So I had my wife drive me down there, and I rode the bike back home.  Believe me, it was scary doing this after not riding for almost 25 years.  But my co-pilot was right behind me, working as a blocker.  The ride home was uneventful.

The Virago 250 was an immaculate 2006, with 4000 miles.  Everyone liked it, most thought it was a bigger motorcycle.  I didn’t have any trouble riding the first 2-3 weeks, staying local and south of town on country roads.  However, I got overconfident and decided to give my wife a ride.  On the way home, I hit a water bottle in a driveway and almost dropped it.  Of course, this scared the crap out of my wife.  Since then, she has never ridden with me.

I passed my local learners test and was going to take my driving portion of the test, when something unusual happened.  The DMV decided to “re-paint” the markings on the parking lot where they give the driving test.  So, they extended my learners for 3 months until the lot was painted, and they let me “practice” on the course anytime I wanted.  They even left the cones out over the weekend so I could practice!  This was a big advantage in my “re-learning” of how to ride, since I had decided not to take the MSF course (bad idea).  But I had a safe practice area in the country south of town, and the course at the DMV.  I passed the driving portion of the course 3 months later (on my Virago 250).

I rode that little Virago as often as possible over the next 2 years, some expressway, some back roads, and almost every day to work.  I had close calls and some learning experiences, but overall, it was a great motorcycle to “train” on.

After 2 years on the Virago (and over 25,000 miles), I was looking to move up, but the engine on my wife’s car went out.  The only available down payment was my little Virago.  The dealer was really interested in it, and several salesmen tested it in the parking lot.  They all said if I didn’t trade it for a car, they would buy it outright.  I parted with my little Virago and drove away in a nice car for my wife (how many guys would do that?).

My wife agreed that since I used my Virago to get her a car, the next time gas prices went up (and I had a bonus) I could get another motorcycle.  That happened early this year.  So I started the search again for a replacement motorcycle.

My bonus came in, but was less than anticipated.  So I had a limited budget, and a short time to buy.  My search sent me in the direction of the Shadow VLX.  Oddly enough, it is considered a beginner motorcycle to some.  And others complain about the 4 speed transmission.  An older VLX not only fit my budget, it was a very practical “next step”.

I found a 1997 VLX in average shape (very rusted) with a perfect engine.  It seems the owner had taken the Japanese motorcycle repair course and was using this bike to practice on.  So the engine was tuned, the carbs were re-jetted, and it had aftermarket pipes.  Complaints about the 4 speed seemed to be unfounded (different sprocket?).  This bike ran on the expressway with no problems. 

I spent several weeks getting most of the rust off, and generally cleaning up the bike.  It had been stored in a barn for several years, and was really dirty.  Now it looks great, I get compliments everywhere I go.  It is a VLX 600CD, two-tone red and pearl.

However, the purchase of a new (sort of) bike caught the attention of my co-worker.  He then began research on purchasing a bike of his own.  It seems gas prices were affecting his budget also, but he decided to take a different path than I did.  He settled on a 400cc Yamaha Majesty scooter. Like me, he had not ridden a motorcycle in over 25 years, so he should have considered himself a beginner.  But he owned a Honda 750 four back in the seventies, so he thought he could handle a scooter.                             I recommended the local MSF course, and told him how I had an advantage when “re-learning” to ride several years ago.  He decided to buy the scooter and learn on his own.

The first week, he dropped his scooter in his garage.  It seems he went in too fast, hit the rail that holds the garage door, and tore off the exhaust cover.  He dropped it on the left side with only minor scratches.

The second week, he hit a piece of Styrofoam when turning into a parking lot, and dropped the scooter again.  This time the damage was more severe (also on the left side).  I brought him a can of matching spray paint to cover up the damage.

We planned a “ride” two weeks later, and my co-worker had plotted out a circular course that would be entertaining.  But he never showed up, so I went on and visited my parents.

I called him when I got home, and as it turned out, he had another accident.  He had decided to take his driving test that morning, and stopped by the DMV.  However, during the emergency lane-change and stop maneuver, he over-applied the front brakes and flipped.  He broke his collar bone and several ribs.

He was out of work 3 weeks.  I don’t know about the future of him riding his scooter, or if he will sell it or not.

I guess the moral to this story is the following.  No matter how much “flak” I may have received about buying a small bike to learn on, I have never regretted it.  It turned out to be the best decision I have ever made.  I put over 25,000 miles on that Virago.  In the early 80’s, I put about 3,000 on a small Harley (Aermacchi 350).  And now I have put over 2,000 on my VLX.  That adds up to almost 30,000 miles. 

I don’t want to jinx myself here and make a statement.   I just thought that another beginner might read this, and decide not to buy a big sport bike or cruiser to start out with.  It just might save their life.

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