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Candy750
06 Shadow Aero



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   Posted 8/16/2006 12:58 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, DataDan.

Carving at posted or above - I remembered that right. They obey all traffic rules, 'cept speed limit.

But in reading it again, now, when it says don't violate the space to the side of the bike in front. So they stay staggered, but NOT side by side. OK.

Anyway, I don't think I want to stay stagered in the turns. I think I want to use my lane the way I see fit. Even when not in the turns.


Dark Candy Aero 750
 
 
Well behaved women rarely make history.
 
 

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RedDog
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   Posted 8/16/2006 1:54 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Staggered on the stretches leaving all riders good space then as the curves come, line up like a serpent.


RedDog
Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me!

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Candy750
06 Shadow Aero



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   Posted 8/17/2006 6:42 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't know RD. When I rode with those guys a few Sundays ago, they expected a tight tight formation. All the way. Way tighter than I felt good at. I know a "good" followng distance is like 2 seconds, but it feels waaaay too close for me (now). I feel good at about four seconds. They (our leader for the day is a HOG member, and was directing the day as if) expect that you are 2 seconds from the rider "directly" in front of you, one second behind the rider in the position ahead of you to, say, your left, in the stagger. Got the "c'mon hurry" hand wave from hubby all day (which BTW, drives me insane). Since I wanted to be 4 seconds behind the rider in front of me (the one I am to be 1 sec behind), that added up to like 6 for a follow. I was ruining the "pack". And was doing math in my head on a Sunday :(

- we had a "lively" discussion at one of the stops. I almost turned around and just went my own way. No, I was not out with the HOG group, but they were all very (in their opinion) experienced riders. They DO have the years....


Dark Candy Aero 750
 
 
Well behaved women rarely make history.
 
 

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RedDog
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   Posted 8/17/2006 7:42 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Candy - sometimes I ride with some cruisers, for some event or something (I ride a sportbike) and it's like they used to wanna be right there around you - besides and way too close. I am a member of BUBBA cruiser club here in AR, it's more like a country club. I talked with them and said I need my space, don't ever want to see someone beside me unless we stop, no passing except on clear straights and only on the left side. I can't stress how important it is to watch and scan 360 degrees, and 100% attention required. Now I got my space. They are nice guy and the whole group "spaced" out.

Some rules have to be laid down, and if you are in a group you don't know, insist of being the tail gunner. If you don't feel comfortable, say "Sorry, I can't ride like that," and ride your own. Group riding is challenging and fun - done right.


RedDog
Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me!

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Candy750
06 Shadow Aero



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   Posted 8/17/2006 8:41 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, RD - at least I know I'm not alone!

I will keep working on all the things at the top of this thread.


Dark Candy Aero 750
 
 
Well behaved women rarely make history.
 
 

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RedDog
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   Posted 8/17/2006 8:53 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We all have to be reminded on those things - every day.


RedDog
Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me!

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louemc
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   Posted 8/17/2006 4:24 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Candy750 said...
I don't know RD. When I rode with those guys a few Sundays ago, they expected a tight tight formation. All the way. Way tighter than I felt good at. I know a "good" followng distance is like 2 seconds, but it feels waaaay too close for me (now). I feel good at about four seconds. They (our leader for the day is a HOG member, and was directing the day as if) expect that you are 2 seconds from the rider "directly" in front of you, one second behind the rider in the position ahead of you to, say, your left, in the stagger. Got the "c'mon hurry" hand wave from hubby all day (which BTW, drives me insane). Since I wanted to be 4 seconds behind the rider in front of me (the one I am to be 1 sec behind), that added up to like 6 for a follow. I was ruining the "pack". And was doing math in my head on a Sunday :(

- we had a "lively" discussion at one of the stops. I almost turned around and just went my own way. No, I was not out with the HOG group, but they were all very (in their opinion) experienced riders. They DO have the years....

 
You know they are idiots right? Career idiots, dedicated to the staying in good standing in Idiotsville? Who gives a rip if they have the years if they spent them in Idiotsville?  You have the choice, be smart, seperate yourself from them. It doesn't take any skill/IQ test to join the HOG group, that's one reason it is so big.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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RedDog
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   Posted 8/17/2006 7:04 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Lou - 10 points! Idiotville - I don't want to live there!!


RedDog
Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me!

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Andy VH
Where is the earth shattering kaboom!?



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   Posted 8/17/2006 8:19 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
WOW! This post lives on!! Thanks for the additional input, and the new take on group riding.

ANY riding group that insists on strict formation through turns is not respecting the space, control, and ability of their riders. Not a good idea. How would they explain it then if on a decreasing radius turn, the lead rider goes in a bit fast and "leads" the others into it. A tight formation does not allow for the various lines required by personal preference and experience. And if someone "dumps it", it is their fault and no fault of the group riding style???!!! This is idiocy in motion!!

What if in this required tight formation a racoon runs out in the middle of the group on a turn. Let's say the "inside" rider is trapped into little choice but to run off the road (can't go to the left cause a bike is there) or apply the brakes hard in hopes the traction and lean angle allow for the "mandatory" line. Nope, this is a crash waiting to happen.

To me, this mentality is more concerned about formal riding appearance than group riding logic and risk management. Find a new riding group and let your actions speak the volumes. Believe me, a disaster WILL happen with this group and you (and your husband) would be best off riding elsewhere. A big part of group riding is respecting the riding capabilites of all the riders in the group.


If it aint one ting is anudder!

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louemc
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   Posted 8/18/2006 10:30 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Absolutely Positively, Seems like at least once a year, from the mid-section of California (stories could come from the coast or the Sierra most likely), it's from these Harley tight formation rides (although it could just as easily be mixed brand, it always seems to be Cruiser type) Something happens, one bike goes down, 8 to 12 others go into a pile like domino's. But does anyone learn anything? No way.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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Candy750
06 Shadow Aero



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   Posted 8/18/2006 1:34 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I do recall reading in the local paper about an accident like that - maybe at Americade last year?

Anyway, thanks guys! I know no one is going to listen to me, but at least I know I'm not completely wrong.


Dark Candy Aero 750
 
 
Well behaved women rarely make history.
 
 

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Deacon Blues
The Imaginary Director



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   Posted 11/19/2006 11:09 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I never could ride with that 'pack' mentality, maintaining a formation at highway speeds. It's just asking for trouble. Staggered on straights or on surface streets, ok, yeah, if conditions warrant. But once in the twisties, single file... I want my whole damn lane!!

Of course, I'm kinda hard pressed to ride at the same pace as the cruiser packs anyhow. Especially when the road starts getting kinks in it.


Don't let Frank see that, or he'll make us put it in the movie.
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Andy VH
Where is the earth shattering kaboom!?



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   Posted 2/8/2007 11:14 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Not quite sure what that comment is based on given the context of this post.
But I have always felt that speed itself is not the cause of accidents, nor is a wholesale reduction in speed a real answer to crash reductions.

In fact, I think that reducing the speed limits only further "dumbs down" the driving populace and puts yet less demands on cage drivers and consequently they'll become even less attentive drivers.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
Get MSF trained, check out: http://www.msf-usa.org

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RedDog
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   Posted 2/8/2007 11:18 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Slowing down to 50, yack! I will fall asleep then and be very dangerous on the road. I would need a James, maybe Jamesine.


RedDog
Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me!

Post Edited (RedDog) : 2/9/2007 4:38:30 PM GMT

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CaddmannQ
Random Moto-geek



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   Posted 2/9/2007 7:55 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Andy VH said...
Not quite sure what that comment is based on given the context of this post.
The comment/post is now deleted, but It was based on the return of a spammer, who I am now busting for the 3rd time for this kind of nonsense.
 
If anyone sees this non-sequiteur type stuff popping up, they can PM me please. I like to bust this guy as soon as he pops back up, but unfortunately he's a couple time zones ahead of me.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd
2004 Nomad 1500 "Baggins"
VROC #11619 Rolling Blunder #128

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HogWild
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   Posted 2/9/2007 5:48 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Demon Bane said...
Anyone who insists on riding in formation through turns is just stupid IMHO. In the curves you want to have as much room to work with as possible, so you should always spread out and ride "single-file" (not strictly, but just with no one next to you) through the curves. Once you're back in the straightaways it's fine to go back to formation.
I would agree with this however, it will depend on how far it is to the next turn. Where I live that next turn may only be 1 or 200 feet. Additionally you will find the elevation changes and lack of site play a big roll in riders abilities to hold a formation. When a few of us get together to ride around these parts it is generally in single file as formation or staggered riding just isn't safe......
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Tros
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   Posted 2/10/2007 6:38 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
CaddmannQ said...
Andy VH said...
Not quite sure what that comment is based on given the context of this post.
The comment/post is now deleted, but It was based on the return of a spammer, who I am now busting for the 3rd time for this kind of nonsense.
 
If anyone sees this non-sequiteur type stuff popping up, they can PM me please. I like to bust this guy as soon as he pops back up, but unfortunately he's a couple time zones ahead of me.

How do you think I feel? I am awake at 3-4am and I see tards posting spam and there isn't anything I can do other than PM you and clean out my lil' sections, lol.


"People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost."

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HogWild
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   Posted 2/10/2007 9:34 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
Candy750 said...

I don't know RD. When I rode with those guys a few Sundays ago, they expected a tight tight formation. All the way. Way tighter than I felt good at. I know a "good" followng distance is like 2 seconds, but it feels waaaay too close for me (now). I feel good at about four seconds. They (our leader for the day is a HOG member, and was directing the day as if) expect that you are 2 seconds from the rider "directly" in front of you, one second behind the rider in the position ahead of you to, say, your left, in the stagger. Got the "c'mon hurry" hand wave from hubby all day (which BTW, drives me insane). Since I wanted to be 4 seconds behind the rider in front of me (the one I am to be 1 sec behind), that added up to like 6 for a follow. I was ruining the "pack". And was doing math in my head on a Sunday :(

- we had a "lively" discussion at one of the stops. I almost turned around and just went my own way. No, I was not out with the HOG group, but they were all very (in their opinion) experienced riders. They DO have the years....






You know they are idiots right? Career idiots, dedicated to the staying in good standing in Idiotsville? Who gives a rip if they have the years if they spent them in Idiotsville? You have the choice, be smart, seperate yourself from them. It doesn't take any skill/IQ test to join the HOG group, that's one reason it is so big.


I have never been a member of the local HOG chapters but the four chapters that are within 100 miles of my place have excellent safety records. I often think they get a bad rap simply because they are generally filled with newb riders and tend to travel at or below the posted speeds. I'm not saying they may or may not have had a problem at one time or another but if they have I have never heard about it. It has been my experience that some of the smaller private clubs are the ones who have problems and there you will find all sorts of idiots that even drink and ride. This would include a few of the local sportbike clubs that are known for stacking it up in some set of twisties around here. I'm not much for the big group rides simply because of the hazards that do apear within the ranks of such things. If I do go on a charity ride I generally ride as far back as I can and it's with people I know.........
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CMRider
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   Posted 2/25/2007 2:47 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Andy,

Nice description of critical skills. Just to clarify your reply, you obviously had a right hand curve in mind. A left hander would start on the shoulder side, then move in toward the center and then back out. Louemc brought up a good point about getting too clos to the centerline with other trafic. Likewise, we control when we are in the curve relative to other vehicles. It's up to us not to be in the middle of the curve when another vehicle is also in the center. Likewise, if we can't see if there will be another car in the curve at the same time as we are, maybe we're entering a blind curve, in which case we should hang ot the outside of the turn until we can see all the way to the exit. On either a right or a left hander, being on the outside as you define it, will give us a better sight line through the curve and will allow us to see another car sooner. This could be closer to the shoulder or the centerline depending on which direction the curve is taking us.

Great forum. Keep up the good work.


CMRider
Ride Smart! Ride Safe!

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thrasher115
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   Posted 9/18/2007 1:07 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
good information
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RedDog
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   Posted 4/15/2011 5:51 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah, Andy this post lives on though I think it took a wrong turn somewhere.


RedDog
Think Ahead! Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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