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Bullet
That guy

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   Posted 12/3/2011 11:34 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think learning to blip the throttle wasn't the problem as much as what time of the year you chose to start learning to do it. I'm with Sid on this one. You're cold, the ground is cold and so are the tires. I've been cold before too. Slows down your reaction speed, you lose a little focus and so on. My rides in late Fall, early Spring were just for pure enjoyment and to shake off the Winter rust from not riding for a few months. I'd wait until it was warm outside to resume your blipping work.


"Of all the things i've lost, I miss my mind the most!"

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GAJ
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   Posted 12/3/2011 12:02 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Rev matching is a very good skill if you're riding in the rain as well.


Selling my one owner '97 TL1000S: www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372346

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ChapR6s
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   Posted 12/3/2011 12:09 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Great advise Bullet. Thanks.
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RedDog
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   Posted 12/3/2011 12:16 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You don't know what you have been missing! LOL!


RedDog
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Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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louemc
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   Posted 12/3/2011 12:53 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RedDog said...
So then, we agree to disagree.

 
I agree with RedDog...He Da Man cool


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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Easy Rider 2
Central Illinois / Central Florida

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   Posted 12/3/2011 5:25 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
GAJ said...
You've probably experienced the results of a ragged downshift. The rear tire snakes as you let the clutch out and the slow-spinning engine drags the rear wheel speed down suddenly. The key is to blip the throttle when the clutch is pulled in,
And I contend that the situation described here illustrates simple poor riding technique. 
Failure to plan ahead makes for a downshift at too high of a speed.
That should never be "necessary" if you are paying proper attention........when you are riding on the street.
Bikes have brakes for a reason........and the objective in street riding should NOT be to come screaming out of the corner at redline.
 
That's it; I'm done......really.(maybe)  smilewinkgrin
 


'06 Suzuki S50 (VS800)
'07 Honda Shadow VLX 600
 

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ChapR6s
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   Posted 12/3/2011 5:44 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Haha. No one said I was speeding or pushing the bike, and I myself pointed out the lack of attention.If anything I was riding under the speed limit. Thanks again.
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el SID
merely a man equipped with a bag a seedless grapes



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   Posted 12/3/2011 9:01 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Chap, IMHO,you should really look into RDs advice and try using the blip in upshifts. It will help your hand and brain learn how much input is required,to get the needed revs to make it smooth and effortless... Next spring also try doing this in parking lots. The road is treacherous and 2nd to first in a parking lot hurts less when you hit the ground than 45mph and 5500lb car coming at your head. Also,top of s**t to do this spring list is advanced rider saftey class. Cause if you cant fully control,your outta control. Sorry needed to be said.
Easy,where exactly did chap say he was trying to redline the bike and scream out of corners? Do you know that R6s models suffered from lack of midrange? So much so that they retuned the bike later on to give it a touch more grunt. So it is a necessary thing. Plus isnt this his moto journey through life? Hes trying to understand what it is,and how to do it. Its not like he asked how to power wheelie through a crowded street, or how to back in the bike and drag his knee around bends. This is something alot of riders do. Even cruisers,sportbikers,dirt riders,adventure riders and tourers.... Did I leave anyone out?.... Oh yeah,trial riders do it as well. You apparently dont, so while we agree to disagree, you seem to just put words in the dudes mouth to make your point.


Best bike out is the one Im on,sod the rest lmao
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1996 honda vfr
2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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RedDog
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   Posted 12/3/2011 10:11 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Easy Rider 2 said...
GAJ said...

You've probably experienced the results of a ragged downshift. The rear tire snakes as you let the clutch out and the slow-spinning engine drags the rear wheel speed down suddenly. The key is to blip the throttle when the clutch is pulled in,
And I contend that the situation described here illustrates simple poor riding technique.

Failure to plan ahead makes for a downshift at too high of a speed.
That should never be "necessary" if you are paying proper attention........when you are riding on the street.
Bikes have brakes for a reason........and the objective in street riding should NOT be to come screaming out of the corner at redline.

That's it; I'm done......really.(maybe) smilewinkgrin


I'm glad you're done cause with all the skills delivered in writing here. I do not think you got the point of SMOOTH riding technique
and blipping an important part of that. This is not a pure racing technique, as indicated by others here, and only used coming screaming OUT of corners as you state.

Oh, I do think most of us know that brakes are there for a reason. Shifting, blipping and braking - all in harmony for a perfect entry speed for your chosen corner speed.
yeah yeah


RedDog
Think Ahead! Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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Richard47
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   Posted 12/4/2011 2:51 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Easy Rider 2 said...
And I contend that the situation described here illustrates simple poor riding technique. 
 


Blipping the throttle does not constitute poor riding technique, quite the reverse. It matches engine speed to road speed and gives a smooth change. The transmission has an easier time. I do it always, as a matter of course, no matter what I am riding. I don't ride particularly fast, I'm an old fart and I know my limitations. I do like to ride smooth.

Also, one of my bikes is an old 90cc Suzuki that I enjoy riding on a sunny day. I have to ride it relatively hard as it will only do about 55mph, although I'n not usually as cruel as that. It has a four speed box with the ratios fairly widely spread. To keep the motor in its weedy power band and stop it 'lugging' means I have to play tunes on the gear lever. It's not the slickest shift in the world and if I didn't blip the throttle on down changes, the change would be harsh and I would risk missing a gear. Since I habitually blip the throttle anyway, this is not a problem. I enjoy riding 'tiddlers', you have to ride them well to get the best from them.


Toilet Brush Dog Owner

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RedDog
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   Posted 12/4/2011 8:48 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Good example, Richard!

I am amazed that some "experienced" riders/bikers don't get this. For other it's just a natural development.


RedDog
Think Ahead! Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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Easy Rider 2
Central Illinois / Central Florida

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   Posted 12/4/2011 9:13 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Richard47 said...
Easy Rider 2 said...
And I contend that the situation described here illustrates simple poor riding technique. 
Blipping the throttle does not constitute poor riding technique, quite the reverse. It matches engine speed to road speed and gives a smooth change. 
Point IS that, examples like you gave notwithstanding, smooth changes can be made without throttle manuplulation IF you practice doing THAT........and stories like what started this thread should be evidence that the technique is not all sweetness and light like you "sport" riders are insisting that it should be.
 
It is a racing technique that really has no practical reason for being in "normal" street riding because there are other, safer and simpler ways to accomplish (almost) the same thing.  If your bike has a "mid-range" problem, you should be able to get around that with carefully planned shift speeds, either slightly above or slightly below the problem area.  And what exactly does a mid-range problem mean anyway........that it won't accelerate like a dragster or like it does at 70% redline when it's only at half RL ???
 
The OP stating that he was doing it at low speeds kind of indicates that he doesn't really understand the purpose for the technique to begin with.
By trying to convince new sportbike riders that they somehow NEED to master this technique for street riding is, I think, doing them a dis-service.
Their time would be MUCH better spent in practicing other, more important skills.
It's just another form of posing.
 
 


'06 Suzuki S50 (VS800)
'07 Honda Shadow VLX 600
 

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ChapR6s
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   Posted 12/4/2011 10:04 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ER2...dude seriously, what are you so distraught about? In half the topics you write about you're disagreeing with people? I'm just saying...

I'm about to delete this thread b/c its honestly getting away from what it was intended. I think I learned from my mistake, and I know/knew where and when I should practice this technique. I definitely agree that I need to practice, that's why I made the post, so that I could get opinions and ideas and help other newer riders.

No one is convincing me I NEED to practice this particular skill, but there is a reason sport-bike riders (including almost all MotoGP, Superbike, Supersport, track guys (hopefully once I get things squared away), ect) and others use this technique.

I appreciate your opinion but I just think you enjoy taking the opposing view of people.
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el SID
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   Posted 12/4/2011 10:17 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It is a racing technique that really has no practical reason for being in "normal" street riding because there are other, safer and simpler ways to accomplish (almost) the same thing. If your bike has a "mid-range" problem, you should be able to get around that with carefully planned shift speeds, either slightly above or slightly below the problem area.
According to whom? Almost isnt good enough sometimes ER just isnt. I said its a necessary thing and my opinion it is a need to know thing. If youre doin a down gear change,carefully planned or not. Cause guess what,when the day comes and its rainy and hes out, It does aid you better than plunking through gears carefully. Furthermore if you read,I said he needed a advanced riders class,didnt I?
"Also,top of s**t to do this spring list is advanced rider saftey class."
Yep I did.


Best bike out is the one Im on,sod the rest lmao
current hacks


1996 honda vfr
2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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GAJ
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   Posted 12/4/2011 12:33 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Definitely not a racing only technique.

Any technique that improves your throttle control, your control of weight transfer and results in a smoother ride with your bike always in the correct gear and nearer the bikes powerband is a safety plus.

There's a reason they teach it in advanced riding, (not advanced "racing"), courses aimed at street riders.


Selling my one owner '97 TL1000S: www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372346

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Easy Rider 2
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   Posted 12/4/2011 1:00 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ChapR6s said...
I appreciate your opinion but I just think you enjoy taking the opposing view of people.
I enjoy pointing out that things seldom are as simple and obvioius as they sometimes seem........and that even opinions shared by a lot of people are sometimes wrong.........or at least not completely right.
 
In this case, it is my opinion that ANY situation that would seem to "need" throttle input to match the engine speed could BETTER be handled by skillful use of the brakes and practicing not shifting down at a speed that is too high.  Those two skills are far more valuable than being able to blip the engine to allow you to downshift at a speed that really isn't necessary.  What exactly does this extra engine braking accomplish in a street setting that can't be done by other means ??
 
So come on, speed racers, give me a good example of where downshifting at a point where the "racing clutch" might slip is better than skillful braking or waiting for a little speed to scrub off before making that shift.  What situation in normal street riding, exactly, would that be better......and why.  Wet streets is not a good example as excesssive engine braking is NOT good in slick conditions.  It is much easier to modulate the brakes than the engine drag.
 
And, ChapR6s: What do you hope to accomplish, in a practical sense, by learning that particualr manuver.  Keep in mind the problems that you had the first time.
 
Making the exhaust scream and the rear tire chirp, giving out a "look at me, I'm a street racer" signal is not a good answer.
 
 


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RedDog
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   Posted 12/4/2011 1:03 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ER2: It's just another form of posing. nono

Seriously? And I thought you had said your last word about this. I looked forward to that,
so we others can go on a fine tune our street skills.

Blipping is posing LOL lol


RedDog
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jon
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   Posted 12/4/2011 1:37 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RedDog said...


Seriously? And I thought you had said your last word about this. I looked forward to that,
so we others can go on a fine tune our street skills.


don't hold your breath on it RedDog, even if you try and turned bluedog, it might not happen. ;-)

haven't heard much from Momma Hen aka your navigator, hope all is well.
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Easy Rider 2
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   Posted 12/4/2011 3:51 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RedDog said...
 And I thought you had said your last word about this. I looked forward to that,
Really??
 
I love you too.  
 
I feel sorry for you poor babies who get upset and can't stand it when someone disagrees with you.
 
Boo F'ing Hoo.skull
 
 


'06 Suzuki S50 (VS800)
'07 Honda Shadow VLX 600
 

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el SID
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   Posted 12/4/2011 4:09 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Firstly if the rear tires chirping the pilot is not doin it right. Last I checked its part of the advanced riders class,so it must be of some use..... Unless the msf guys dont know what they are talking about either. Secondly,I dont down shift into the upper atmosphere of the motor,and it doesnt look like anyone here was telling him to rev the hell outta the motor. So again we come back around to ER putting insinuations of what we have posted. When was the term excessive ever used in what we have been trying to point out? I prefer my motor in the midrange,it gets lumpy to low. Lumpy isnt good for smooth inputs,worse yet in the wet. My experience. I dont understand where you are getting this idea that we collectively are trying to tell him to bang it off the rev limiter.


Best bike out is the one Im on,sod the rest lmao
current hacks


1996 honda vfr
2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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RedDog
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   Posted 12/4/2011 9:09 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
jon said...
RedDog said...


Seriously? And I thought you had said your last word about this. I looked forward to that,
so we others can go on a fine tune our street skills.


don't hold your breath on it RedDog, even if you try and turned bluedog, it might not happen. ;-)

haven't heard much from Momma Hen aka your navigator, hope all is well.


Momma Hen is all fine here. Just enjoyed another Packer night beating the Giants.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Oh Jon, I won't turn bluedoggish.


RedDog
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Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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RedDog
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   Posted 12/5/2011 9:44 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Easy Rider 2 said...
RedDog said...

And I thought you had said your last word about this. I looked forward to that,

Really??



I love you too.



I feel sorry for you poor babies who get upset and can't stand it when someone disagrees with you.



Boo F'ing Hoo. skull


Now you start to be funny. Let's talk about trail-braking ... yeah


RedDog
Think Ahead! Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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GAJ
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   Posted 12/5/2011 12:47 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Rev matching has about as much to do with "chirping the rear tire" and "making the exhaust scream" as practicing emergency braking does with doing stoppies.

It is about achieving smooth downshifting and does not preclude also using the brakes simultaneously.  A smoother downshift might have improved the scenario presented in the original post.

I've given plenty of real world examples of where it is of value, down steep hills, in the wet, in normal everyday traffic where being in the powerband might just save your ass, but here's another one; lane splitting!

Lugging along while lane splitting would be as idiotic as lugging along in heavy traffic.

And no, that doesn't mean bouncing the tach off the rev limiter.

Red Dog's example of smooth riding while riding two up is another example.

ER2; what advanced riding courses HAVE you taken?


Selling my one owner '97 TL1000S: www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372346

Post Edited (GAJ) : 12/5/2011 7:53:23 PM GMT

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ChapR6s
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   Posted 12/5/2011 12:52 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well I definitely have learned in the few months of being on this forum that there are a lot of good guys/girls out there to help and support people like me (newer riders), so thanks for everyone's helpful opinions. I can't wait to work on a lot of this stuff we've talked about all week this weekend (tues-thurs) for me. I'm going to start tonight with simple neutral practice!
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RedDog
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   Posted 12/5/2011 1:25 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Practice, practice, practice, .... and always strive to learn, be better. Motorcycling is a formidable life style and to survive,
education never stops.


RedDog
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