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Elliott
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   Posted 10/23/2011 2:08 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Product Review over Yamaha FZ8

 

            Before I elaborate on the specifications of the Yamaha FZ8 and its competitor, the BMW F 800R, I would like to explain to you on the ways in which I compare the two. There are many important aspects when comparing the Yamaha FZ8 to the BMW F 800R. Some of the aspects are: engine, style, price, mpg, comfort, and handling.

            When comparing the FZ8 to the F 800R, they are almost identical when it comes to engine size. The FZ8 has 779cc and the F 800R has 798cc. This would make someone assume that they have the same amount of torque and horsepower, but in reality the Yamaha FZ8 has the better engine. The FZ8 has 25 horsepower more than F 800R, but the F 800R has slightly over 2 ft. /lbs. of torque over the FZ8. The F 800R has more torque because its body is longer, which in turn makes it harder for the front wheel to come off the ground when aggressively accelerating. Yamaha is getting a major point across with this machine. They are showing the consumer that they can build a better bike with a more powerful engine for a fraction of the price. I personally own a Yamaha FZ8 and can honestly say that it is a very powerful bike. It has a great gear ratio allowing you to cruise through town, or hit the throttle hard on the back roads. While riding the FZ8 in the 1,000-5,000 rpm range, it is more of a touring and relaxed ride. With that being said, when the FZ8 is ridden in the 6,000-12,000 rpm range, it transforms into a completely different motorcycle. The exhaust systems sound even begins to change when the rpms hit the 6,000 mark. The frequency of the sound gets higher, and the motorcycle begins to sounding like a racing machine.  

            Both the FZ8 and the F 800R are the naked bike style, which means they have a more aggressive look than a regular street bike because they do not have all of the extra plastic on the sides of their frames. In this comparison it is up to the consumer, and which bike you think looks more appealing to you. Both the FZ8 and the F 800R have little amounts of extra plastic, but this does not mean they are complete equals when it comes to style all together. The FZ8 has a more aggressive look to it because the headlight shape is aggressive and sleek, while the F 800R just has regular round headlights. The FZ8’s headlights have an upside down triangular shape giving it an aggressive look even at night.

            One of the more important parts when comparing these motorcycles is the price. While the FZ8 MSRP is $8,490, the F 800R is approximately $10,445. This is a big gap when you compare the two bikes. You are paying less for the FZ8, but getting more power and speed. It doesn’t make sense to purchase a bike that is almost $2,000 more in price, and has less horsepower. It also doesn’t make sense to purchase an F 800R if the consumer is looking for an aggressively styled naked bike at a reasonable price. This just goes to show the consumer that the Yamaha FZ8 is the better bike when comparing it to the BMW F 800R.

Their fuel economy is basically going to be the same, at about 40 miles per gallon. Other aspects of their specifications are going to be very similar as well. Their weight difference shows that BMW can produce a very light motorcycle with the FZ8 weighing 467 pounds, and the        F 800R being 390 pounds, but that is about all it shows. Another aspect of these motorcycles is their comfort while riding. Since these motorcycles are both street bikes, not cruisers, they are going to be comfortable and tolerable when driving around town, or short distances. No one buys a FZ8 or an F 800R to drive across the country. With this being said, when it comes to comfort either bike is fine; it is a customer specific decision.

The final aspect of my review is their handling. The F 800R has pretty good handling, but the FZ8 is better. From personal experience I can tell you that the FZ8 is everything you’re looking for when it comes to handling. It is a very sporty motorcycle and is great in cornering, and in the straightaways. The suspension on the Yamaha FZ8 is already perfect set for the roads, I wouldn’t go all out and say it is ready for the track, because it isn’t, but it doesn’t need to be either. One difference about the FZ8 and the F 800R is that on the F 800R, its suspicion can be modified for each specific rider. This means that the rider can personally set the suspension for their personal preference. This does not mean much to the non-experienced rider because by changing the suspension the rider could drastically change how the bike handles. This personally makes me want the FZ8 so I do not have to even worry about accidently changing it, I don’t even have to worry about it.  The FZ8 is great in all aspects when it comes to handling. Even the sizes of the tires are seamlessly proportioned when riding this motorcycle. The wider back tire allows a bigger contact patch when cornering and when in the straightaways. This in itself helps with the handling of the motorcycle.

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jon
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   Posted 10/23/2011 7:30 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Elliott said...

One of the more important parts when comparing these motorcycles is the price. While the FZ8 MSRP is $8,490, the F 800R is approximately $10,445. This is a big gap when you compare the two bikes. You are paying less for the FZ8, but getting more power and speed. It doesn’t make sense to purchase a bike that is almost $2,000 more in price, and has less horsepower. It also doesn’t make sense to purchase an F 800R if the consumer is looking for an aggressively styled naked bike at a reasonable price. This just goes to show the consumer that the Yamaha FZ8 is the better bike when comparing it to the BMW F 800R.


actually in most cases, the price gap is even wider because yamaha dealers are more willing to deal than bmw dealers thus, increasing the bang for the buck even more. for example this brand new 2011 fz8 for $6450:

www.cycletrader.com/listing/2011-Yamaha-FZ8-98586321
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Phil B
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   Posted 10/25/2011 12:56 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
jon said...
Elliott said...


actually in most cases, the price gap is even wider because yamaha dealers are more willing to deal than bmw dealers thus, increasing the bang for the buck even more. ...


Local dealer competition. Bad for MSRP, good for consumers. :)
There's just more dealers trying to sell yamahas, than BMWs. Score 1 for Yamaha!
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Richard47
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   Posted 10/28/2011 1:37 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I don't agree that just because a motor makes more power it is better. For street use it makes little difference if a bike is making, say, 100 or 125 bhp, 100bhp isn't exactly weedy and is more than adequate. I am not likely to buy either bike, but if I were I would choose the lighter machine, the extra 77lbs the Yamaha is carrying will go a long way to negate the extra power it has, and the lower weight of the BMW will make it easier to ride. It will also depend on the rider's preference for two or four cylinders. I would have to ride both bikes to be sure, without doing so my preference would be for the twin, I suspect I would find the power delivery more satisfying.

The price difference is a factor, to be sure, but that is easily overcome. Just buy a two year old Beemer and you will be ahead on the deal! 


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WhiteKnite
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   Posted 11/6/2011 6:57 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
[quote]The F 800R has more torque because its body is longer, which in turn makes it harder for the front wheel to come off the ground when aggressively accelerating.

Torque figures have absolutely nothing to do with wheelbase...


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2011 BMW F800ST

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stenejohn
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   Posted 11/22/2011 8:33 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yess I know That !!

Elliott... Your This Information is really helpful for me.
because Yamaha FZ8 Black is my Favorite bike

According to me Yamaha FZ8 Black is better than all bikes.
Due to its model, design and its advance feature which likes everyone.
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RaptorFA
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   Posted 11/22/2011 10:12 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I tend to like the Yamaha as well. In fact when I was looking at bikes I really wanted the FZ8 but whenI found out that I coldn't get the Fazer in the U.S. I had to go a different route.


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RaptorFA
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Eenix
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   Posted 12/9/2011 4:01 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
nice bike, wish to buy this soon

Post Edited By Moderator (Rich_S) : 12/9/2011 4:16:59 PM GMT

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Andy VH
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   Posted 12/12/2011 10:34 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually, the F800 gets MUCH better fuel mileage. It is not uncommon for the F800 to reach and exceed 60 mpg at steady highway speed. To make the kind of power the F800 makes from a two cylinder engine (less wieght, less complex than a four in the FZ 800) AND great fuel economy, means the engine technology costs more to produce than the more common engine in the FZ 800. Also, that greater economy over the life of bike ownership does add up to make a significant difference.  

Yes, the FZ 800 makes more HP than the BMW, more "overall" HP. But, what matters MORE is where that power occurs on the rev range of the engine. In dyno tests, the BMW makes MORE HP and TORQUE than the Yamaha up to 6,000 rpm of either bike's power range. Also, its not just power, like in HP or torque, but how much weight that power has to move. And that is another reason the F800 is more expensive than the Yamaha, because the BMW does more with far less weight. Yamaha uses a lot more steel for its standard construction frame, while the BMW has a minimal frame (steel for the F800R and aluminum for the F800ST). It costs more to build a bike with a lightwieght, strong, steel frame like the F800 than it does on the more mass-produced Yamaha. Less weight also means more efficiency and less less rider strain to get the bike to do what the rider wants. But lets consider what the weight to power ratios really does for the $$$ spent:

The F800R makes 87 HP at 8000 rpm (about 82 rear wheel HP) and 63.5 ft-lb torque at 6,000 rpm (about 58 ft-lb rear wheel torque), moving 390 pounds of bike. That equals 4.75 pounds per HP, and 6.72 pounds per ft-lb of torque.
 
The FZ 800 makes an ADVERTISED 104.7 hp at 10,000 rpm and 60.5 ft-lb of torque at 8,300 rpm. Motorcycle Consumer News dyno'd a FZ800 and got 89.47 hp at the rear wheel and 51.19 ft-lb of torque, real numbers. Using your 467 lbs weight, means it equals 5.22 pounds per HP, and 9.12 pounds for ft-lb of torque.
 
BIG difference there. The BMW engine has to move a LOT less mass per HP and Torque than does the Yamaha. Those 390 pounds for the BMW, with better real power range HP and torque, and better fuel economy don't come cheap. Meaning it costs more to achieve those significant differences. Note also, that the FZ 800 has to spin the engine MUCH faster to make the power reported. Again, in the real world of riding, that means the BMW MAKES MORE POWER WHERE WE USE IT. So in that contaxt, we begin to see why the BMW costs more than the Yamaha. But that really only has value on how you want to use the bike, so it may be a better choice. I'm not dissing the FZ 800, because many test reports regard it highly. I have not ridden the FZ 800, but I have ridden the F800 and it is a great bike with LOTS of character and great handling. But, have you ridden the F800 in comparable settings to where you ride your FZ 800 to objectively compare the ride quality and handling? Your evaluation does not say that you have ridden the F800 to compare it against the FZ 800.
 
The suspension differences should not be treated lightly either. With the option to properly set up the suspension which can be done on the F800 (meaning it costs more to produce), a rider can make significant gains in ride quality and capabilities. Better ride, better handling help to make a better rider. Sure, the FZ800, like many Japanese bikes, cost less, but then there are compromises commonly made in the suspension to make that cost difference. I have riden many bikes with marginal suspensions and upgraded suspensions, and the difference in ride quality and capability IS significant. So, when comparing bikes, price is only ONE factor of the total comparison.


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Post Edited (Andy VH) : 12/12/2011 6:59:44 PM GMT

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GAJ
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   Posted 12/12/2011 12:44 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Andy, I thought the F800R, like my F800ST, came with an unadjustable fork, (which is why I had Race Tech Emulators installed on mine), and a rear shock only adjustable for preload and rebound damping.



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Andy VH
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   Posted 12/12/2011 1:56 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yup, I stand corrected. The F800R has a standard non-adjustable front fork. The rear shock has dampening adjustment and a fully adjustable remote operated hydraulic preload adjuster for the single rear shock.
 
The FZ800 has a standard non-adjustable front fork, and the rear shock is only manually adjusted (off the bike) for preload. It has no dampening adjustment for the rear shock.

What kind of improvements did you get adding the Emulators in the front fork? I have always been curious to try them in some of my older bikes.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
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Post Edited (Andy VH) : 12/12/2011 8:59:46 PM GMT

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GAJ
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   Posted 12/12/2011 2:12 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The emulators allow compression and rebound to be adjusted (albeit in a more tedious fashion than cartridge forks) and also improve the forks reaction to sharp jolts as they flow more oil than the stock orifices which are drilled out as part of the process.

The emulators "emulate" a cartridge fork.

The affect on the pretty good F800 front fork was not nearly as dramatic as it was when I did it to my old Nighthawk 750 who's front fork was a pogo stick, (on that bike I also changed to stiffer fork springs which wasn't really needed on the F800 as the emulators took care of any excessive dive people complain about with the F800 fork).

I'd definitely recommend it...the worse the stock fork the more dramatic the improvement.



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Andy VH
Where is the earth shattering kaboom!?



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   Posted 12/13/2011 6:27 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Some more corrections here, one on my own reply, but the other in response to this by the OP, "The F 800R has more torque because its body is longer". HUH? The torque developed by any engine has nothing to do with the "body" being longer. If the OP is referring to the stroke of the engine, then perhaps, but also not entirely. Engine torque output is more about how an engine "breathes" than anything else. That is the only way to explain how engines of similar size can make significantly different torque outputs, at dramatically different engine speeds. The F800R makes a LOT more torque where most riders will really use it, in the 4000 to 6500 rpm range.
 
Some reasons for this: the two larger bore cylinders of the F800R allow for larger diameter valves, along with nearly straight intake runners into the engine to maximize mid-range rpm breathing. The fuel tank below the seat of the F800R allows for the large airbox and near straight intake runners, both produce better torque through better breathing. The four cylinder FZ800 is more traditional, four smaller bore cylinders, smaller valves, not quite as efficient breathing. But if the engine spins faster it can make comparable torque. Spinning an engine faster is the classic Honda trick learned in the 50s to produce HP from smaller engines. But, the better breathing of the BMW engine also accounts for its much better fuel economy while making really usable power. Few cycle mags look at the real numbers this way. 

The FZ800 doesn't match the F800R for torque from dyno reports I have found in cycle reports on the web and in magazines. Torque is what make our bikes such a blast to ride. Horsepower makes the difference at the higher speeds and higher engine revs, to overcome wind resistance and drag.

The actual wet wieght of the F800R is 460 lbs, not the 390 lbs the OP listed. So the BMW HP and Torque per pound of weight to move is closer to the FZ 800. That better explains why the FZ 800 performance is better at the higher engine speeds needed to realize that difference. The actual HP and Torque per pound weight for the BMW are (based on dyno data I found online): 79.4 HP at 8,000 rpm equals 5.79 pounds per HP, 56.6 ft-lb torque at 6,000 rpm equals 8.13 pounds per ft-lb of torque.

So the FZ800 beats the F800R for pounds per HP, barely. But the FZ800 has to spin the engine 2,000 rpm faster to do it. So that depends on what engine speeds you are comfortable with for your riding style. The F800R still beats the FZ800 for less pounds to move per ft-lb of torque, and it does it spinning the engine 2,300 LESS rpm, again meaning it does it where more riders are actually riding the bike at, engine speed wise. It is never enough to simply compare HP and Torque numbers unless you understand where in the power range those numbers are made, and you have to factor how much bike those numbers have to move. When comparing HP and Torque of different bikes, you also have to factor in where the bikes make that HP and torque usable, and match that to your riding style. That's what makes riding bikes so varied and enjoyable, there is a bike to produce "the feel" for everyone.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
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Post Edited (Andy VH) : 12/14/2011 3:35:15 AM GMT

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thesoapster
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   Posted 12/13/2011 6:42 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Highly informative, Andy :)
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Andy VH
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   Posted 12/13/2011 6:59 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks! I know my replies tend to be very "wordy", and my engineer side comes out. But years ago I studied what aspects of four stroke engines really account for the power we enjoy so much. And it all comes down to how an engine breathes. Once I understood that 4-stroke engines are really not much more than big fancy air pumps, a lot of engine design made much more sense.

Think of an "engine" like this. Lance Armstrong is a phenominal rider of efficient power output for hours on end. One big reason that I read about is Lance has an over sized heart for his size and build. He has learned to use it to significantly improve his breathing capability over us mere mortals. More oxygen to the musles, over more time = more power.

Compare these two bikes side by side, on the same twisty tight track, with equally skilled riders, and I bet both riders will produce very similar track times. But one does it at much higher engine speeds than the other, to match the "grunt" needed to get a bike through tight turns. If the rider is ok with those higher engine speeds, and can use the tighter power band effectively, he can probably beat the other bike. But again, in the real world of day to day riding, torque really gets it done, and at lower engine speeds that can be very satifying too.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
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Post Edited (Andy VH) : 12/14/2011 2:07:46 AM GMT

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thesoapster
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   Posted 12/13/2011 7:16 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Agreed. And of course what you described is the result when a motorcycle gets an aftermarket exhaust system, high flow air filter, and is dyno tuned for that increased air flow. More power available everywhere!

And yes, a bike with less peak HP but much better HP/torque production at lower revs is much nicer on the street. Who wants to ride like this to get to the most usable part of the powerband? www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN3Kj3xbjNU
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Andy VH
Where is the earth shattering kaboom!?



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   Posted 12/13/2011 8:30 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wow, cool video. But most of that lap on the R6 was done at 10,000 rpm and much higher!


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
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thesoapster
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   Posted 12/14/2011 3:43 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah...basically under that it's just making noise and counting down to when the RPM can get way up high. I mean, it's suposed to be one of the best track bikes period. I believe it. You just couldn't get me to ride that thing on the street. To be comfortable on it you have to break the law heinously.
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Smitty
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   Posted 1/19/2012 11:29 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Okay I am lost on the importance of having the front wheel lift on take-off or accelleration.  I can only feel this is due to my AGE at 80+ yrs of age & only been riding constantly since 1946.
 
For back in '46 my first bike was a used '39 Indian Bonnyville 45SV.  Yes by '47 I was often modifying it for flat-tracking & the same with a few used HD 45SV bikes as well.
 
So my '47 a few of the British bikes started to enter into Canada & by '48 some of us were making a lot of modifications to bikes we used for Road Racing on a training airport during WWII.  With lower set handle-bars, smaller 125cc petrol tank, home made norrower  saddle, footrest farther to the ear & up a bit PLUS shifting going to the reverse pattern of one up for 1st then the rest down.  The Brits were doing the same & called them CAFE RACERS.
 
Yet like a few others I latched onto a new 500cc OHC Manx Norton only for road racing & it made a teriffic difference.
 
I continued to modify not only British irons in the same form only make them street legal & started to do the same with JPN bikes, TILL I latched onto a Suzuki GSXR-750, used, but it handled like a dream & same with a few other bikes most were calling  "sport bikes" though teeners called them "crotch rockets".
 
Yet in those times I never feel the front wheel lifting from the pavement was a MUST in any discussion or THAT important.  Yes I have a few Honda  sporbikes like the 929 & 954 in my car garage waiting to be riden. 


Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

Post Edited (Smitty) : 1/19/2012 7:03:22 PM GMT

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