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Kris
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   Posted 12/7/2011 10:27 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What's up all. I was looking at buying a new Honda CBR 600RR, but am skeptical. I have seen some trends come and go and one that baffles me is the exhaust placement. When I first started looking at sportbikes I noticed that they all have a side exhaust. This changed around 2000 (I think) when all the manufacturers started moving to an under seat exhaust. Now it seems as though we are returning to a side-mounted exhaust again. I was wondering if there weer pros and/ or cons to the under seat exhaust. I brink up the CBR because Honda seems to be keeping the under seat exhaust for now.
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el SID
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   Posted 12/8/2011 4:43 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
its a design thing more than anything. It started when ducati came out with the 916 and other manufactures followed suit. Me I would want a side exhaust. Keep the weight low. the cbr keeps the design because its inherent to its design. I would guess that when the all new 600 shows up it will look alot like its bigger bro with a side exit shorty.


Best bike out is the one Im on,sod the rest lmao
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Andy VH
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   Posted 12/8/2011 5:42 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just so long as you are not considering the CBR600RR as a "starter" bike, because it is not.

In fact, none of the sportbike series, CBR, GSXR, ZX, YZ, etc, etc are good starter bikes. It has more to do with the seating position than the peaky engine power delivery. A sportbike forces the rider into a crouch position (if ridden like the race bike style that it is), or it forces the rider to sit up with all your upper body wieght on your wrists, holding your head up/back so you can adequately see up and use the mirrors effectively. That riding position is not condusive to first learning to ride and operate a bike. Also, sportbikes have short wheelbases, steep steer head angle resulting in sensitive steering, and very powerful brakes. Those three can combine very quickly to destabilize the bike in uncertain newbie hands, and bring the bike/rider down quickly. Then all that sleek/sexy plastic gets scratched/busted easily and is expensive to replace. A driveway fall can easily cost well over $500.

Which brings up insurance. On a sportbike, for a newbie rider, that can amount to $2000 a year and more qucikly.

Not a single one of the cycle magazines recommend any sportbike as a starter bike. Hmm,...maybe they do know something?


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RedDog
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   Posted 12/8/2011 8:24 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am with El Sid here - I don't like under-the-seat-exhaust.

I have a CBR1000RR here and wife can always tell when I have been riding it .... "You Stink!" Sometimes just idling at a red light,
the exhaust fumes with the help of some tail wind, carries straight at you. And guess what happens when we ride 2Up? "She stinks!"
There used to be a heat issue too, but plenty of shields stopped most of that - just like you see on the CBR600RR/1000RR.

Nah, get the exhaust fumes as far away from your face as possible - side exhaust.


RedDog
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Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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Richard47
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   Posted 12/8/2011 9:09 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's just a fashion thing that has no real function. If there was any advantage in it you would see it applied to MotoGP bikes.


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GAJ
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   Posted 12/8/2011 12:29 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I wouldn't buy a bike with an undertail exhaust.

Too many complaints about heat issues during the nicest riding months.


Selling my one owner '97 TL1000S: www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372346

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RedDog
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   Posted 12/8/2011 1:45 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Full agreement so far ... that should make an easy response, Kris.


RedDog
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thesoapster
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   Posted 12/8/2011 3:34 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Two of the three bikes I own/have owned have underseat exhaust. My 04 CBR600RR's exhaust had no heat issues. I don't think it has ever been a complaint for the model. My R1 definitely produced a bit of butt roasting heat, but that was due to the placement of the catalytic converter. My aftermarket exhaust lacks the catalytic converter, so I don't get the heat blast anymore.

late edit: I will say, though, in terms of function, low mount exhaust is better. As mentioned, the Ducati 916 really started the undertail craze. It looks good. But even Ducati, with their 1199, will be going to the low mount. However, not all race bikes use the low/side exit. Look more carefully at some of the MotoGP bike tail sections. Both the Desmosedici and RC212V have at least one exhaust exit out of the tail.

Post Edited (thesoapster) : 12/9/2011 3:15:38 AM GMT

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jon
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   Posted 12/8/2011 10:15 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
i've owned both styles and no issues with either. my current bike's undertail pipes only feel lukewarm when i touch it. also took a passenger on trips covering thousands of miles and she had zero complaints about the exhaust.
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Kris
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   Posted 12/9/2011 12:38 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
So it seems like everyone except Andy answered my question and I appreciate it. For some reason Andy felt the need to press an opinion that had nothing to do with the question which makes him extremely annoying. Thanks to everyone else I really do appreciate it.

Kris
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el SID
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   Posted 12/9/2011 4:09 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OOOoooh Bad form kris. Now you are annoying. Andy,is a very intelligent rider. Not to mention an instructor for the MSF. So if I were you I would heed his advice,cause he is bang on correct. A 600cc sportbike isnt a learners bike. I would bet that in a real world situation,he would ride circles around you. He probably can ride circles around me as well. But Im veering off point. In the future grow some thicker skin,it wasnt like he made fun of you. One should be willing to take a simple point without getting offended.


Best bike out is the one Im on,sod the rest lmao
current hacks


1996 honda vfr
2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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Drunkula
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   Posted 12/9/2011 6:53 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well Andy is right. However I don't see in the original post the OP said he was a beginner. He did say "when i first started looking at sportbikes..." were you could infer he was. But it didn't answer the OP's question. I still do value Andy's input.

Anyhow... I've had both styles. My current bike has an undertail. I don't mind it. There is more than adequate heat shielding. I do smell like exhaust after riding but that doesn't bother me! I think ultimately the side mounts would edge out undertails in technical merits alone.
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Andy VH
Where is the earth shattering kaboom!?



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   Posted 12/9/2011 6:57 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok, sorry if I came across as "extremely annoying", rather than offerring concerned input for what to me sounded as questions from a potential newbie rider. Instead of extremely annoying my input comes from a wide experience of 40+ years of riding, and of trying to help direct a very important purchase choice based on logical background.

If it seemed I was putting you down, for that I apologize. When I respond to some of these posts I also look at the rider profile and also read other posts by the rider to get a feel for your background and riding knowledge. Perhaps I miss-read your other posts, but to me, the gist of your questions and comments were those of a newbie rider. In that context I responded with direct input. Granted, this particular thread is probably not the right place to respond as I did as it was not in the context of the discussion.


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Post Edited (Andy VH) : 12/12/2011 3:46:18 PM GMT

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jon
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   Posted 12/9/2011 10:55 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kris said...
For some reason Andy felt the need to press an opinion that had nothing to do with the question which makes him extremely annoying.
it's the interweb, that happens. i may have even been guilty of it once or twice too which is why i try to answer simple direct questions as directly as possible without assuming regardless of who it's from.
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Kris
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   Posted 12/9/2011 11:32 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jesus guys...I never said anything about my riding style or skill level. There is absolutely no need to press an opinion that has has NO bearing on my question. Andy, you may be a MSF instructor and you may run circles around me and still your opinion doesn't answer anything about Underseat Exhaust VS Side-Exit Exhaust. How do you not see that you jumping on a "New guys don't need a sportbike" high horse does absolutely nothing to answer a technical question? I was more curious about whether an exhaust that has a lower center of gravity affects cornering more or less than an exhaust that is mounted higher and in a more central position. What drives me even more up the wall is Sid backing him up as an experienced guy just making a point... A point that is completely unrelated to the question.

It's not that I hate people, I just hate personalities.
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GAJ
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   Posted 12/9/2011 12:30 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A bit of history on Kris from other posts might help:

"I am 6'2" and weigh about 175 lbs. and have read that the Triumph may have a riding stance that is not favorable to the taller riders. I am fairly new to street even though I have years of dirt riding under my belt and I am 32 years of age so the maturity level is definitely greater than that of an 18 year old. I know that most experienced riders will tell you to start riding a used crap bike and then progress to a slightly faster crap bike until you have the experience to buy that dream bike. Well unfortunately I am dead set on a NEW sport bike and these are the two that I am looking at so please with all due respect, I don't want to hear the typical "You’re doing it wrong" speech.

I am a very careful guy. I probably worry more than the average guy and since I am a paramedic I am fully aware of the dangers that are out there. I know that a "Starter bike" is always the best option but as you say, a bad move at high speed can kill me just as fast on a smaller bike. I definitely have respect for the power a motorcycle makes as well as all the other people on the road. I am very hesitant about this which I think is a good thing. I will not but this sport bike until I am ready. I just want to know that newer street riders have started out on these bikes and survived."


forum.motorcycle-usa.com/default.aspx?f=24&m=512284&g=512307#m512307

Generally a motorcycle with a problematic underseat exhaust, (when it comes to heat mainly), will have that issue addressed directly in published tests...unless the bike is brand new and tested in the fall/winter.

Seems to me the best place for an exhaust, (or any mass for that matter), is as low and as centralized as possible...even though those "under engine" style of exhausts may not be the most eye catching.


Selling my one owner '97 TL1000S: www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372346

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louemc
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   Posted 12/9/2011 1:01 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kris said...
What's up all. I was looking at buying a new Honda CBR 600RR, but am skeptical. I have seen some trends come and go and one that baffles me is the exhaust placement. When I first started looking at sportbikes I noticed that they all have a side exhaust. This changed around 2000 (I think) when all the manufacturers started moving to an under seat exhaust. Now it seems as though we are returning to a side-mounted exhaust again. I was wondering if there weer pros and/ or cons to the under seat exhaust. I brink up the CBR because Honda seems to be keeping the under seat exhaust for now.
Well, starting with "What's up" and not giving any riding experience, puts the failure of response accuracy on your ball court.
 
Andy does superiour posting....He is dealing with biker people at all levels, all the time, as an instructor and a sales person for BMW and his dirt and ice riding.
 
This is the internet...That makes for difficulty in communicating..Ya gotta know that.


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Rich_S
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   Posted 12/9/2011 2:42 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kris said...
Jesus guys...I never said anything about my riding style or skill level. There is absolutely no need to press an opinion that has has NO bearing on my question. Andy, you may be a MSF instructor and you may run circles around me and still your opinion doesn't answer anything about Underseat Exhaust VS Side-Exit Exhaust. How do you not see that you jumping on a "New guys don't need a sportbike" high horse does absolutely nothing to answer a technical question? I was more curious about whether an exhaust that has a lower center of gravity affects cornering more or less than an exhaust that is mounted higher and in a more central position. What drives me even more up the wall is Sid backing him up as an experienced guy just making a point... A point that is completely unrelated to the question.

It's not that I hate people, I just hate personalities.
 
Lets try and keep things civil. If he isn't answering your question then pass over his post. No need to call any one out.
 
Your clarification is appriciated. Lets call this little disagreement done and continue on topic?


For all your motorcycle news and motorcycle reviews - Motorcycle-usa.com
 
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ZX Rider
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   Posted 12/9/2011 8:05 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Red Dog has it nailed. Really don't understand why one would place exhaust under the passengers butt. For the sake of art many exhaust systems don't work well in the real world.


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RedDog
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   Posted 12/10/2011 8:06 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I also recall the very first time meeting a rider with a spanking new CBR600RR out on some of the finest road in MO. Wife and I was on my CBR929RR which we were to trade/sell for a new 1000. The CBR1000RR was at the top of my list.

We asked about the undertail exhaust while having lunch with this 600RR rider and his buddies. The only "complain" he has was:

"I love Ham'n Chees sandwich for lunch". SO I get one, place it in the "trunk" of the CBR, ride a mile down the road, and it's perfected heated, cheese melted."

So, there may be one benefit too.

BTW Kris, I am 6'2" and weigh ... 175 lbs too and fits comfortably on the GSX-R1000/750.


RedDog
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Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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el SID
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   Posted 12/10/2011 9:37 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah,the gsxr 750 is for me a perfect bike. Good power, right size. Im 6 ft 180lbs. I have ridden a number of cbr thous and dont recall any real issues, like roasted buns. Love the front end feel from the cbr, really well planted.


Best bike out is the one Im on,sod the rest lmao
current hacks


1996 honda vfr
2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125 I have broken her back. I feel guilty. she may have to be laid to rest.

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thesoapster
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   Posted 12/11/2011 11:23 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'd like to try the current 750. The previous gen 600/750 had extremely heavy steering compared to the other middleweights (I'm guessing due to longer wheelbase and lower height). They did shorten them and make some tweaks so that they apparently flick well now.
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Andy VH
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   Posted 12/12/2011 8:50 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey, I learned here too, and I apologized for my mistake of getting on a high horse.

Guess that wasn't enough for Kris, even though I admitted my fault, quoting myself, "Granted, this particular thread is probably not the right place to respond as I did as it was not in the context of the discussion."

Fine, nuff said, I'll keep my nose out of the discussion unless its on the topic and on the mark.

Oh, and personally, I think on the right bike and application, the underseat exhausts are really cool. But beyound the application on a sportbike, underseat exhaust is of little benefit.


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RedDog
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   Posted 12/12/2011 9:04 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Maybe not mentioned, but it takes a lot of metal and shields (read weight, even balanced) to get them pipe from the
engine and out on those CBRs. We took off the original pipes on the CBR1000 and mounted a SATO. Shaved off a lot
of weight and the heating issue was gone - BUT not the exhaust flavors.


RedDog
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Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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luiggispeed
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   Posted 12/16/2011 8:04 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have asked that question myself a lot.
I have both types of bikes, and bewtween an undereat 1098 or R1 and the side mounted R6 the R6's handling beats the other two by the classic mile but I'm afraid it's not the location of the exhaust the issue here, lol

So I do like the underseat array, from a visual standpoint, it looks killer to my eyes, on the subjective part of it.

One advantage of the underseat array is that is less susceptible to damage during a fall, something very desirable in a track bike.




I rather be riding my motorcycle thinking about God than sitting in church thinking about my motorcycle

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