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basshole
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   Posted 4/20/2011 2:58 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
rickkcir said...
"LOL....told ya they'd go tits up by the end of this year!! Let's hope Polaris makes them a little more price competitive so people can actually afford them."

Curious how you think they went tits up... they investors simply sold it ... that's the process right? I hope they don't change the overall price structure on the high end models.... let the folks on a budget buy a metric or HD :) Though it would be nice to see a Scout out to compete with the Sportsters and Softtails...


It's simple bud. If Polaris hadn't of come in and bailed them out (because I'm sure the investors were clamoring to get some ROI after all these years of flushing $$$$ down the toilet), they would of closed their doors again. All the arrogance they had and claims of superiority in product and leadership and it boils down to an EPIC FAIL. They had no chance to make it in this economy at those price points as a start up boutique bike. At least now they have a fighting chance but will have to dramatically reduce the price points.


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KC Cheef
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   Posted 4/20/2011 4:05 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Miss me?
LMAO!!
Looks like the Steves crashed and burned.
Iconic Price points, and poorly built motorcycles coupled with elitist BS will only take you so far.
GOOD DAMN DEAL!!
Polaris might be the rebirth of Indian if they can get over the ICONIC--PREMIUM mindset they already seem to favor in some of the releases I've read.
Polaris Indian won't be any closer to Springfield than KM or Gilroy were but it might be looked at as a NEW Indian motorcycle.
That'd be a good thing.
From the jump in stocks Polaris got today I'm thinking Harley might be looking at some competition.
Any one seen chickenstrips lately?
I still think I can whoop his fat a**. (In a fair fight--if he sets on me I'm done!!)
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basshole
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   Posted 4/21/2011 10:29 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
LOL..we knew this day was coming soon Cheef!! How long have we been talking about this epic failure?


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rdawsoniii
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   Posted 4/21/2011 6:11 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I wouldn't go so far as to say this was a "failure". I guess it depends on what Stellican's goal was.

When you think about it....there is no way a small company is going to make significant inroads into the cruiser motorcycle market. Stellican has a history of reviving "iconic" (I hate that word) brands and bringing them back to life. They did that with Indian. I'm guessing the goal was to get the Indian name going again, then sell out for a profit. And I'll bet the Stellican boys DID make themselves some money on the deal.

I think Indian is going to be around awhile. Polaris/Victory has a good track record. Victory bikes are well made.

I want an Indian. I will own one some day. But I have very little mechanical ability. Being able to take my bike to a dealer or reputable small shop is a must. That leaves the original Indians out. The Gilroy's were too unreliable. Sure, I could send it off to Joe Malfa...but then what?

Although I can afford a KM bike, I'm not going to spend that much for a motorcycle. The Vintage cost as much as my first house did! I also was going to wait to see if: the company was going to stay around....the bike was going to be reliable....and a dealer closer than Omaha (I live in the Des Moines area).

With Polaris taking over, I am cautiously optimistic. Costs should come down. I expect quality to be as good as Victory. AND there are Victory dealers close to where I live. AND it looks like the bike could be made in Iowa. Win-win as far as I'm concerned.

My Suzuki is 7 years old. My goal is to sell it and buy an Indian when it reaches age 10. That looks like a real possibility now. Hopefully Polaris keeps at least one Chief model with the long fenders and the "iconic" styling.
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bunchof6
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   Posted 4/22/2011 5:55 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I still don't get why everyone cares about the name "Indian" so much. Rdawsonii, just put an Indian logo on your Suzuki. It will have as much to do with the original Indian bikes as any KM or Gilroy bike. Plus reliability and an awesome dealer network.

Aren't there fender kits that mimic the look of those Indian fenders? Seriously, what's the difference?


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rdawsoniii
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   Posted 4/23/2011 12:14 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
bunchof6 said...
I still don't get why everyone cares about the name "Indian" so much. Rdawsonii, just put an Indian logo on your Suzuki. It will have as much to do with the original Indian bikes as any KM or Gilroy bike. Plus reliability and an awesome dealer network.

Aren't there fender kits that mimic the look of those Indian fenders? Seriously, what's the difference?

Actually, I have Indian headdress stickers on the tank (they are gold, but I ordered them without the "Indian" name) and an Indian head fender light.  My "Sioux-zuki" looks like the Spirit model put out by Gilroy.
 
It looks awesome.
 
The shop guys at my local Suzuki dealership don't usually remember my name every year, but they sure remember the bike.  They call me "Mr. Indian".
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CaddmannQ
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   Posted 5/4/2011 9:35 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Crap! Every company that makes Indians goes broke, sells out, or falls apart.

This does not bode well for Polaris.


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Andy VH
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   Posted 5/5/2011 3:51 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I dunno, every previous Indian rebirth never had the $$$ backing, production skills, dealer network, design/engineering capabilities, purchasing power, contained cost of manfacturing, that Polaris brings to the table.

Plus, Polaris has the market knowledge to know that a single model $30,000 unit cost product line is doomed to fail simply because of the limited market potential. Harley can do it with the CVS product because they are established and have a proven product. Past $30,000 Indians required a real leap of faith in a product never really proven over the long run.

At least Polaris Indian won't be first producing a clothing line in hopes to generate enough cash to build some bikes, or build a lavish new production facility before any amount of real proven models are on the road (Henderson).


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CaddmannQ
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   Posted 5/5/2011 4:28 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We'll see. Polaris stock doubled in the past year. It soared when the Indian buy was announced. On the strength of that, plus high profits and dividends, they've bought some other companies that make electric motors and electric cars.

They're getting very extended in an uncertain market IMO, but lets see what happens in the next year.


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martinjmpr
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   Posted 5/6/2011 7:09 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think it would be interesting to see Polaris take the Indian name in a new direction. Start off with the big, fat-fender baggers to please the faithful, but then start introducing newer models with the Indian label. They could probably use the "scout" moniker which has Indian MC lineage (I never could understand putting the name "Scout" onto an 800lb bagger. A "Scout" should be light, maneuverable, and quick, three things that the ponderous fat bikes are not.) Make it a lightweight dual/sport or adventure bike and break into a new market.

The ADV bike market is getting bigger and bigger whereas I think the "fat cruiser" market is pretty much saturated.

EDITED TO ADD:  Before someone brings up the Buell Ulysses, I would make two points:  1. The Ulysses was saddled with the heavy lump of an engine from the Sportster, which is not great for ADV riding purposes, and 2. We now know that Harley's commitment to Buell was half-hearted at best.  So, I think an updated "Indian Scout" with an all-new motor (maybe a water-cooled twin like the the BMW F800 - Polaris must have lots of motors available from their line of ATVs) could be a player in the growing ADV market. 


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Post Edited (martinjmpr) : 5/6/2011 3:39:34 PM GMT

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Kz1000st
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   Posted 5/9/2011 4:44 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't think Polaris gets anywhere near enough credit for what they do in a market where they go head to head not only with the Cement Mixers from Milwaukee, but the even better V-Twins from Japan. This long term evaluation will be their vindication as far as I'm concerned.

http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_roadtest/long-term_tests_articles/11q2/victory_cross_country_-_long-term_test_update

Once the top magazine in the nation shows how well the bike performed, on its own, no one will be able to doubt the strength of Polaris know how.
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Tros
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   Posted 5/9/2011 10:57 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
If anybody can make the Indian brand regain mainstream popularity, Polaris is it. It will be interesting to see what they intend to do with the image of the company. I'm just curious whether or not the motorcycle market itself is too saturated for any new company to make any real profit. I look forward to seeing how things pan out.


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KC Cheef
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   Posted 6/8/2011 8:21 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hello Tros.
Yep--it'll be intersting to see how things pan out.
I'm thinking Polaris will go the same way the Steves went with KM.
Elite and Iconic and high end seems to be getting tossed around again.
I'd rather see them go bullet proof--reasonably priced -- and a s**t load of folks riding them.
It wouldn't surprise me to see Polaris just make Tshirts and doo dads.
Seems to me like they'd have to cannibalize Victory to create Indian again.
Victory seems to be working out pretty damn nice for them so far--why would they risk it?
I'm going with the Hendee curse.
If Polaris does as old George suggested they might stand a chance at bringing Indian back.
If not?
I'm guessing old Hendee will reach out from the grave and jinx it all again.
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lawrence1
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   Posted 6/9/2011 3:43 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Why you always got to come off with them negative vibes? :)

I predict an Indian in the AMA paddocks within five years!


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KC Cheef
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   Posted 6/9/2011 6:03 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'd like to see that myself lawrence1.
But it's not going to happen unless Polaris gets serious about going their own way.
Only ever going to be 1 Indian Wrecking Crew.
I love the Gilroy Chiefs and believe it or not I'd love to have a KM Chief to make me a bobber out of.
Big Fender time is all used up in the Indian world is what I'm thinking.
Polaris better be making a Scout Sport bike that'll run AHEAD of the Jappers and a Chief that will NOT be skirted like the last of the Springfields and Gilroys and KMs.
Anyone on here ever seen the Motus 4?
THAT is the direction Polaris should be thinking.
From what I'm hearing Polaris is already screwing the pooch.
I've seen the terms Iconic--Elite--and keeping it High End.
I'm also hearing the boys that have been supporting the Springfields for years are going to be going through another round of being bullied about the trademark.
Oh--interesting that all the KM supporters have seemed to disappear don't you think?
Anyone done their research on Novator?
I'm surprised im not swimming wit da feeshes.
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KC Cheef
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   Posted 6/9/2011 6:18 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Found this a while back. THESE are REAL INDIANS from Springfield.
Those little Scouts were hell raisers in their day.
What do you think lawrence1.
Good to see Indian Motorcycles from that long ago end up taken care of.          
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bunchof6
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   Posted 6/10/2011 2:13 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree with Cheef.

If you're gonna buy the brand, at least do it justice. Last thing we need is another cruiser for rich people. Maybe even start with a replacement for the Buell Blast, that's an open market segment now.


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rdawsoniii
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   Posted 6/19/2011 10:15 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I guess I would have no problem with Polaris continuing to build the full-fendered Chief.

But....I'm really hoping they put out a reliable, reasonably priced bike such as a Scout, that will be appealing/affordable to the masses.

I can't believe Polaris would buy the Indian brand only to continue to only make high priced bikes, as that would be a recipe for failure. They impress me as being much smarter than that.
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louemc
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   Posted 6/20/2011 11:09 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
bunchof6 said...
I still don't get why everyone cares about the name "Indian" so much. Rdawsonii, just put an Indian logo on your Suzuki. It will have as much to do with the original Indian bikes as any KM or Gilroy bike. Plus reliability and an awesome dealer network.

Aren't there fender kits that mimic the look of those Indian fenders? Seriously, what's the difference?

 
Really, there was only one Indian Motorcycle...It was a product of Engineers and workmen.
 
When that factory closed the doors...it was gone.
 
Dumb Ass investors and customers that don't know anything more than a logo...have come and gone since the original lived.
 
Some of the logos (that were bought in a courtroom) were slapped on bikes  made in India, some bikes kit assembled in Gilroy, whatever...the name don't mean Dick if it isn't the work of the Engineers and workmen that made the name, in a different time.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

Post Edited (louemc) : 6/20/2011 6:12:15 PM GMT

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KC Cheef
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   Posted 7/14/2011 8:51 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
loumec.
That theory you have can even apply to the original Springfields.
LOT of turmoil in the factory from the day it opened in 1901.
LOT of engineers came and went through the doors.
Even Hendee and Hedstrom bowed out early due to the forces in the board room.
I'm of the opinion Headstrom was the ULTIMATE Indian Engineer and he didn't fare to well with in the company he helped create.
I do agree though.
Only Springfield Indians can claim their heritage.
Gilroy and KM and now polaris should just keep being what they are.
A tribute to the days that are gone.
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ToUtahNow
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   Posted 7/16/2011 8:24 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm guessing Polaris will do just fine with Indian. With the exception of the 99/00 transmissions the Victorys are bullet proof. One of the guy on the VMC has over 200,000 miles on his 99 and another has over 100,000 on his Vision. Victorys are made to ride.

I bought my first Polaris quad in 92 back when everyone said Polaris wouldn't make it selling quads. Everyone felt a quad with an automatic transmission was a joke. Seems the idea caught on as they are still selling quads. Because of my quads I bought my first Victory when they came out in 99. Back then everyone said Victory would never last. Victory will never sell as many bikes as H-D but they are here to stay. I predict they will keep the general appearance of the Indian unchanged but they will bring the technology into the 21st Century. I also believe the price point will come down as it is cheaper to build them right than to pay to warranty them.

I tend to feel it was a mistake for Polaris to buy Indian. However, for those who like the look of Indians it's great news.

Mark


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slopoke
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   Posted 7/16/2011 10:04 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
 There are many of the vics on the vmc with over 100,000 miles and I think all are still going.  I dont recall ever reading about one even needing a rebuild, except for the first bikes needing transmission rebuilds.


 
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ToUtahNow
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   Posted 7/16/2011 10:21 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I believe Roadkill (Tim) had a partial rebuild when something came apart in his engine (valve spring?). With Tim having over 200,000 miles on his 99 it is only one of two Victorys he rides. In addition, living in Upstate New York he can only ride certain days.

Mark


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mjdart
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   Posted 7/22/2011 7:49 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hopefully Polaris will provide the technical knowledge and engineering expertise that Indian Motorcycles of Kings Mountain was lacking. I had hoped the North Carolina Indian Factory would succeed as it made a great story, but nagging problems and attention to detail along with a disastrous economy doomed them. My two year warranty will be expiring leaving me & Chief 31 with 10,000 odometer miles to fend for ourselves but that has pretty much been the case from the start as I still have no dealers within 5 hours and parts availability is severly limited. Hopefully Polaris will put together a dealer network for service and parts in the not too distant future.
 


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31

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CaddmannQ
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   Posted 7/25/2011 5:46 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
From what I'm reading, Polaris will take the current Indian design, and manufacture it with genuine improvements, until it is a viable motorcycle at a more reasonable price. What they do after that is up in the air, but they say Indian and Polaris will NOT share any parts.

Perhaps some of their their "improvements" will be applicable to the KM bikes as well.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
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