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mrmarklin
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   Posted 5/27/2011 5:18 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Check this out::
 
http://detnews.com/article/20110520/...dy-motorcycles

yeah 


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2008 Harley-Davidson Crossbones

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PowerG
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   Posted 5/27/2011 6:25 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Wonder what the true statistical per capita difference is in fatality rates? I couldn't speak for the whole country, but though cruisers far outnumber SB's here, it's clear there are a lot of VERY young folks riding sportsbikes, teenagers...maybe lack of skills combined with poor judgement? We went hunting over in Alabama a few months ago and on the way back we were passed by a group of sportbikes, single file, just like described in the article. The bikes sounded like bullets going by, literally, and we were running 65 or so. 150? Faster? They were hauling ass, no doubt. Long straightaway, true, no problems with traffic, but we were in a National Forest that is actively managed to keep deer populations high, I was cringing. The woods came practically to the edge of the roadway. But, I guess when I was that age I did stuff just as stupid.


2007 V-Star 1300 

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louemc
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   Posted 5/27/2011 8:07 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not going to click on, and read the article. The writer must think they are right, else it wouldn't be written...less of course the writer is just writing for the money.

Thing is, the writer doesn't know squat. It isn't the type of bike that kills you..it's the dumb ass that doesn't know how to ride a bike, that kills themselves.

The rider that does know how to ride a bike is better off on a bike that works best...and thats a Sport bike...They were made to work, so they would be able to win a race with corners in the track.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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PowerG
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   Posted 5/27/2011 8:58 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's pretty much what the article says, it's not the bikes that are the problem, it's the people riding them. And no, I have no use for a sportsbike as my main bike, it won't do what I need a motorcycle to do.


2007 V-Star 1300 

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jon
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   Posted 5/28/2011 12:57 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
PowerG said...
...it's clear there are a lot of VERY young folks riding sportsbikes, teenagers...maybe lack of skills combined with poor judgement?


yep. pit a group of mature riders with good judgments on sportbikes against a group of immature riders with bad judgments on cruisers and i'm willing to bet sportbike rider group would come out on top in terms of safety.

btw, how's your zx14 riding co-worker doing thus far?
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PowerG
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   Posted 5/28/2011 6:10 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would agree with that absolutely. I was thinking about that last night-I do know some cruiser riders who have no clue as to what they're doing, and they scare me.

He is completely intimidated by the bike. He's ridden it to work a very few times, and has told me about riding out in the country a couple of trips. I have had reason to question his judgement in the past on some things related to work, but as far as the bike is concerned at this point he seems to be cautious enough that maybe he won't get out of hand on it.


2007 V-Star 1300 

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Easy Rider 2
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   Posted 5/28/2011 7:35 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
I'm not going to click on, and read the article.
 
Thing is, the writer doesn't know squat.
Hahahahaha.......like you DO know squat......without even looking !!
 
You certainly were right at the front of the line when God was passing out ego.  nono
 


 
 

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GAJ
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   Posted 5/28/2011 11:04 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Latest info I could find:

"Supersport motorcycles are indeed nimble and quick, but they also can be deadly," says Anne McCartt, Institute senior vice president for research. "These bikes made up less than 10 percent of registered motorcycles in 2005 but accounted for over 25 percent of rider deaths."

The fatality rates for cruiser and "standard" riders rank the lowest, at 5.7 deaths per 10,000 registered motorcycles. Touring bikes, such as the Harley example, averaged 6.5 deaths, with sport bikes totaling 10.7 deaths per 10,000."


news.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/09/motorcycle-deat.html

So what this implies is that non HD cruisers and "standards" are the safest.
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Easy Rider 2
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   Posted 5/28/2011 11:16 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
GAJ said...
So what this implies is that non HD cruisers and "standards" are the safest.
Simple facts or statistics "imply" nothing.  It is your interpretation that infers a meaning.
 
What it really MEANS is that the people riding those types of bikes are the safest.
 
The type of bike is a symptom, not a cause.  smilewinkgrin
 


 
 

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Kz1000st
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   Posted 5/28/2011 11:21 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OK, but let's get back to the point everyone is making. Younger riders are roaring about the countryside on crotch rockets, while old farts, like Marklin, are using cruisers and heavy touring bikes to get around. Who do you think will have the most accidents and how is this different from automobiles? The last time I checked younger drivers were way over-represented in the death and dismemberment pool.
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GAJ
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   Posted 5/28/2011 11:24 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Easy Rider 2 said...
GAJ said...

So what this implies is that non HD cruisers and "standards" are the safest.
Simple facts or statistics "imply" nothing. It is your interpretation that infers a meaning.


What it really MEANS is that the people riding those types of bikes are the safest.



The type of bike is a symptom, not a cause. smilewinkgrin


Fair enough; I certainly don't feel less safe on my old literbike than on my DRZ400SM or my F800ST.

And while I've let my newish rider friends (all over the age of 50) ride the latter two of my bikes, never even considered letting them ride the SS as it's reaction to sloppy rider input is more immediate and direct.
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jon
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   Posted 5/28/2011 3:41 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kz1000st said...
...how is this different from automobiles?


same rules apply. this is why insurance is higher for teenage boys vs. teenage girls. based on the insurance data, boys are just more reckless than girls. same analogy: pit a new 35 y.o. mature driver in a powerful camaro against a new 17 y.o. immature driver in a low power civic and i say the camaro driver will have less incidents. like bikes, it comes down to the operator not the machine.
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Kz1000st
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   Posted 5/28/2011 6:07 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And I love these knowledgeable quotes.

"Sports and supersport bikes are basically built for racetracks but are modified to run on city streets," said Ann Fleming, spokeswoman for the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

I wonder what kind of Hybrid Ms. Fleming drives? "Yesiree, all them bikes with fairings are racebikes with lights and directionals."
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louemc
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   Posted 5/28/2011 6:44 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
^^^That's the problem with non-bikers talking about bikes...They don't know what they are taking about...and get it wrong.

If Ann Fleming did know about bikes..she would know that the features of the sport bike, are a safety item. The non safe thing is the rider, and that rider isn't safe on any bike.

Where I live, at the base of the Sierra (Sierra Foothills) The only bike crashes are done by Cruiser riders. They come up from the flat lands, and have no mountain road skills.

Our corners have extreme rise and fall, and camber changes, in the corners...So the no mountain road skill, rider is overwhemed at low speeds. They go off the road, because they can't tell their bike what to do. Seems like most of the time these crashes happen, the biker is crossing the center line, on their way to going off the other side..and..they don't get to the other side, because they meet a truck grill/bumper, on the way.

The non-cruisers that visit the Sierra are just about 100% highly skilled sport touring types. The little 600cc sport bike riders don't ride far enough to get here.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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jon
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   Posted 5/28/2011 11:05 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
^^^That's the problem with non-bikers talking about bikes...They don't know what they are taking about...and get it wrong.

If Ann Fleming did know about bikes..she would know that the features of the sport bike, are a safety item. The non safe thing is the rider, and that rider isn't safe on any bike.

Where I live, at the base of the Sierra (Sierra Foothills) The only bike crashes are done by Cruiser riders. They come up from the flat lands, and have no mountain road skills.

Our corners have extreme rise and fall, and camber changes, in the corners...So the no mountain road skill, rider is overwhemed at low speeds. They go off the road, because they can't tell their bike what to do. Seems like most of the time these crashes happen, the biker is crossing the center line, on their way to going off the other side..and..they don't get to the other side, because they meet a truck grill/bumper, on the way.

The non-cruisers that visit the Sierra are just about 100% highly skilled sport touring types. The little 600cc sport bike riders don't ride far enough to get here.


right on lou, well put! reminds me of bay and valley drivers that come up to tahoe or reno in the winter and don't know how to make adjustments for the sierra terrains and conditions.
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Meanie_Intruder
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   Posted 5/29/2011 12:01 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
^^^That's the problem with non-bikers talking about bikes...They don't know what they are taking about...and get it wrong.

If Ann Fleming did know about bikes..she would know that the features of the sport bike, are a safety item. The non safe thing is the rider, and that rider isn't safe on any bike.

Where I live, at the base of the Sierra (Sierra Foothills) The only bike crashes are done by Cruiser riders. They come up from the flat lands, and have no mountain road skills.

Our corners have extreme rise and fall, and camber changes, in the corners...So the no mountain road skill, rider is overwhemed at low speeds. They go off the road, because they can't tell their bike what to do. Seems like most of the time these crashes happen, the biker is crossing the center line, on their way to going off the other side..and..they don't get to the other side, because they meet a truck grill/bumper, on the way.

The non-cruisers that visit the Sierra are just about 100% highly skilled sport touring types. The little 600cc sport bike riders don't ride far enough to get here.


....and many types of cars can't handle those turns and corners also when they exceed the speed limit.

The speed limit within those areas (and everywhere else for that matter) are there for a reason, it allows ALL vehicles safe passage within the appropriate lanes. It's not made for the speeding....period.

Your first reply was accurate when you stated
louemc said...
They were made to work, so they would be able to win a race with corners in the track.


Sportbikes are for the track. Public roads are not track environment regardless of how well the bike handles corners and turns.....period.


"A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people"

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martinjmpr
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   Posted 5/29/2011 4:26 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Cruiser riders don't live longer.














It just seems longer. :p

(sorry, couldn't resist!) 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
Previous Bikes:  '69 Honda CL450; '74 Honda CB750; '83 Honda 550 Nighthawk; '92 Yamaha Virago 1100; '83 Yamaha Maxim 750; '84 Kawasaki ZN700 LTD; '01 Triumph Thunderbird 900; '82 Kawasaki Spectre 750
 

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slopoke
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   Posted 5/29/2011 11:17 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
^^^That's the problem with non-bikers talking about bikes...They don't know what they are taking about...and get it wrong.

If Ann Fleming did know about bikes..she would know that the features of the sport bike, are a safety item. The non safe thing is the rider, and that rider isn't safe on any bike.

Where I live, at the base of the Sierra (Sierra Foothills) The only bike crashes are done by Cruiser riders. They come up from the flat lands, and have no mountain road skills.

Our corners have extreme rise and fall, and camber changes, in the corners...So the no mountain road skill, rider is overwhemed at low speeds. They go off the road, because they can't tell their bike what to do. Seems like most of the time these crashes happen, the biker is crossing the center line, on their way to going off the other side..and..they don't get to the other side, because they meet a truck grill/bumper, on the way.

The non-cruisers that visit the Sierra are just about 100% highly skilled sport touring types. The little 600cc sport bike riders don't ride far enough to get here.

 I lived in socal for 45yrs and up until 5yrs ago I lived at the base of the san bernardino mts going up to big bear for 20 of those years. I had plenty of choices of twisty roads from where I was located. So im really surprised to hear you say that, cause that is not what I have experienced. Sure you will see crusiers have there share of problems up there but the majority of accidents up there are byfar young guys on sport bikes who dont have the experance to deal with the power thats available at there right wrist. I have witnessed this myself several times.
 
  It doesnt matter that a sport bike handles better or stops better when the rider doesnt have the matuirty and experiance to deal with the power that they have with a twist of there right wrist. The handling and braking power isnt going to save them from that right wrist. The results would be the same if the younger crowd preferred crusiers, but unfortunately sport bikes are the bikes that most younger inexperianced riders are attracted to.
 


 
  2011 Victory Crosscountry

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Easy Rider 2
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   Posted 5/30/2011 6:51 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
martinjmpr said...
Cruiser riders don't live longer.
It just seems longer. :p

(sorry, couldn't resist!) 

No fair.  You stole that from "married men".  skull
 
(I did chuckle though.)
 
 


 
 

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louemc
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   Posted 5/30/2011 8:17 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
slopoke said...
louemc said...
^^^That's the problem with non-bikers talking about bikes...They don't know what they are taking about...and get it wrong.

If Ann Fleming did know about bikes..she would know that the features of the sport bike, are a safety item. The non safe thing is the rider, and that rider isn't safe on any bike.

Where I live, at the base of the Sierra (Sierra Foothills) The only bike crashes are done by Cruiser riders. They come up from the flat lands, and have no mountain road skills.

Our corners have extreme rise and fall, and camber changes, in the corners...So the no mountain road skill, rider is overwhemed at low speeds. They go off the road, because they can't tell their bike what to do. Seems like most of the time these crashes happen, the biker is crossing the center line, on their way to going off the other side..and..they don't get to the other side, because they meet a truck grill/bumper, on the way.

The non-cruisers that visit the Sierra are just about 100% highly skilled sport touring types. The little 600cc sport bike riders don't ride far enough to get here.

 I lived in socal for 45yrs and up until 5yrs ago I lived at the base of the san bernardino mts going up to big bear for 20 of those years. I had plenty of choices of twisty roads from where I was located. So im really surprised to hear you say that, cause that is not what I have experienced. Sure you will see crusiers have there share of problems up there but the majority of accidents up there are byfar young guys on sport bikes who dont have the experance to deal with the power thats available at there right wrist. I have witnessed this myself several times.
 
  It doesnt matter that a sport bike handles better or stops better when the rider doesnt have the matuirty and experiance to deal with the power that they have with a twist of there right wrist. The handling and braking power isnt going to save them from that right wrist. The results would be the same if the younger crowd preferred crusiers, but unfortunately sport bikes are the bikes that most younger inexperianced riders are attracted to.
 

 
Have no idea why you are surprised by what I said....I said "the non-safe thing is the rider" and you go on to say the same thing.
 
Your history (what you see where you live" is different than mine.  What you see is valid, for you, you live close to where unskilled Sport bike riders (sport bikes of all sizes) live and ride. (and crash)
 
I live in the Sierra, only experienced hard core /liter + Sport bike riders, make the trip here, as they are going on up and over the passes.
 
Cruiser riders aren't going on up the pass I live at the base of...the Cruiser riders come to this (foothills) area and stay at this level...if they are going over the top, they use another pass, with a center line and road that was engineered and cut with road building equipment.
 
The Main Commercial (Busses and big rigs) use Hwy 80 to Reno, a very nice (civilized) one is Hwy 88 (Carson pass), and/or Hwy 108 (Sonora pass), or Hwy 120 (Tioga pass, that goes through Yosemite).
 
Thing about the word "Twisties" is.. they aren't all the same....some riders think a curvie is a twistie.
 


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louemc
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   Posted 5/30/2011 8:28 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Meanie_Intruder said...
louemc said...
^^^That's the problem with non-bikers talking about bikes...They don't know what they are taking about...and get it wrong.

If Ann Fleming did know about bikes..she would know that the features of the sport bike, are a safety item. The non safe thing is the rider, and that rider isn't safe on any bike.

Where I live, at the base of the Sierra (Sierra Foothills) The only bike crashes are done by Cruiser riders. They come up from the flat lands, and have no mountain road skills.

Our corners have extreme rise and fall, and camber changes, in the corners...So the no mountain road skill, rider is overwhemed at low speeds. They go off the road, because they can't tell their bike what to do. Seems like most of the time these crashes happen, the biker is crossing the center line, on their way to going off the other side..and..they don't get to the other side, because they meet a truck grill/bumper, on the way.

The non-cruisers that visit the Sierra are just about 100% highly skilled sport touring types. The little 600cc sport bike riders don't ride far enough to get here.


....and many types of cars can't handle those turns and corners also when they exceed the speed limit.

The speed limit within those areas (and everywhere else for that matter) are there for a reason, it allows ALL vehicles safe passage within the appropriate lanes. It's not made for the speeding....period.

Your first reply was accurate when you stated
louemc said...
They were made to work, so they would be able to win a race with corners in the track.


Sportbikes are for the track. Public roads are not track environment regardless of how well the bike handles corners and turns.....period.

Thanks for posting your thoughts this way...it makes my case, for my opinion of Cruisers that can't ride worth a crap.
A biker that can see what the road situation is, and can tell their bike what to do, can do it.   Those that need a sign posted with a number on it, cause they have no clue...need more than a sign...cause conditons change...the posted speed limit, isn't always a safe speed,   and isn't always the max safe speed either.
 
But...Your bound to have close to 100% support of your views...on this cruiser section.


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slopoke
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   Posted 5/30/2011 11:29 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
slopoke said...
louemc said...
^^^That's the problem with non-bikers talking about bikes...They don't know what they are taking about...and get it wrong.

If Ann Fleming did know about bikes..she would know that the features of the sport bike, are a safety item. The non safe thing is the rider, and that rider isn't safe on any bike.

Where I live, at the base of the Sierra (Sierra Foothills) The only bike crashes are done by Cruiser riders. They come up from the flat lands, and have no mountain road skills.

Our corners have extreme rise and fall, and camber changes, in the corners...So the no mountain road skill, rider is overwhemed at low speeds. They go off the road, because they can't tell their bike what to do. Seems like most of the time these crashes happen, the biker is crossing the center line, on their way to going off the other side..and..they don't get to the other side, because they meet a truck grill/bumper, on the way.

The non-cruisers that visit the Sierra are just about 100% highly skilled sport touring types. The little 600cc sport bike riders don't ride far enough to get here.

 I lived in socal for 45yrs and up until 5yrs ago I lived at the base of the san bernardino mts going up to big bear for 20 of those years. I had plenty of choices of twisty roads from where I was located. So im really surprised to hear you say that, cause that is not what I have experienced. Sure you will see crusiers have there share of problems up there but the majority of accidents up there are byfar young guys on sport bikes who dont have the experance to deal with the power thats available at there right wrist. I have witnessed this myself several times.
 
  It doesnt matter that a sport bike handles better or stops better when the rider doesnt have the matuirty and experiance to deal with the power that they have with a twist of there right wrist. The handling and braking power isnt going to save them from that right wrist. The results would be the same if the younger crowd preferred crusiers, but unfortunately sport bikes are the bikes that most younger inexperianced riders are attracted to.
 

 
Have no idea why you are surprised by what I said....I said "the non-safe thing is the rider" and you go on to say the same thing.
 
Your history (what you see where you live" is different than mine.  What you see is valid, for you, you live close to where unskilled Sport bike riders (sport bikes of all sizes) live and ride. (and crash)
 
I live in the Sierra, only experienced hard core /liter + Sport bike riders, make the trip here, as they are going on up and over the passes.
 
Cruiser riders aren't going on up the pass I live at the base of...the Cruiser riders come to this (foothills) area and stay at this level...if they are going over the top, they use another pass, with a center line and road that was engineered and cut with road building equipment.
 
The Main Commercial (Busses and big rigs) use Hwy 80 to Reno, a very nice (civilized) one is Hwy 88 (Carson pass), and/or Hwy 108 (Sonora pass), or Hwy 120 (Tioga pass, that goes through Yosemite).
 
Thing about the word "Twisties" is.. they aren't all the same....some riders think a curvie is a twistie.
 

 
   So your saying the road by where "you live" is just so challenging that only hard core liter bike riders dare to ride it and the crusier riders stick to the roads that buses and big rigs travel, and there are no 600cc supersports around. Must be paradise.
 
   If you would have read the article you would see that the writers where saying exactly what we both said about inexperianced riders.


 
  2011 Victory Crosscountry

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Smitty
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   Posted 5/30/2011 12:09 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Some good posts up above started by K1000 as to the novice or non-riders assumption about the m/c world & YES a cage in the hands of a teener is deadly & also a lot of deaths to accidents.


Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

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Meanie_Intruder
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   Posted 5/30/2011 5:20 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
Thanks for posting your thoughts this way...it makes my case, for my opinion of Cruisers that can't ride worth a crap.
A biker that can see what the road situation is, and can tell their bike what to do, can do it. Those that need a sign posted with a number on it, cause they have no clue...need more than a sign...cause conditons change...the posted speed limit, isn't always a safe speed, and isn't always the max safe speed either.



But...Your bound to have close to 100% support of your views...on this cruiser section.


It's no surprise sportbike handling is far superior to a cruiser, tourer and even a standard, that's what they're designed to do. Therefore, what's your point?

Bottom line, a cruiser isn't going to handle excessive curves and twisties nearly as well as a sportbike. An experience rider who rides both styles, will always outperform with the sportbike. Again, that's nothing new.

The speed limits within this country, especially on twisting roads, are in place specifically to handle those type of roads . There is a physics formula to determine that speed and radius of curves which apply to all vehicles on normal dry condition. That formula also applies to entrance and exit ramps of major freeways, highways and other curved access points. Therefore, it is a safe speed. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to understand when conditions are worse such as from weather issues, they should go slower than that speed. Those who wish to exceed that speed assume the risk. Yes, people need that sign to determine the limit because there are far too many idiots who don't know their limits. Again, experienced or inexperienced who cares? The speed limits keep those who follow it at bay regardless of what your ego thinks.


"A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people"

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Kz1000st
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   Posted 5/30/2011 5:21 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"I guess the bottom line is that the bikes aren't the problem: People are the problem."

Keep in mind that I used to be a reporter for a local paper. When you write glaring headlines, show a picture of a smashed sport bike, list how terrible sportbikes are and end your article with a conclusion like that you shouldn't have hit the send button. This article is yellow journalism.
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