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   Posted 12/3/2004 12:29 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Honda has tweaked its 2005 CBR600RR to offer better acceleration, braking and handling. Is it enough to keep pace in this competitive class? Check out the article and let us know what you think about the improved middleweight Honda.


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Dinoski
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   Posted 12/3/2004 5:39 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This year should produce an interesting 600cc shootout. But why a 650cc bike from Triumph? The pricing will be playing a big factor also. Honda had always produced bikes that don't win on shootouts but win on the racetracks - which means they are highly modified when it comes to racing. They should put all machines in one race - just like the 80s - and let the motorcycle gods sort them out. But the price it getting up there. I think Honda should do the following on the 2004-600cc machine - remove the underseat exhaust and replace it with a much lighter conventional one - to save weight. Modify the swingarm to accomodate the conventional exhaust - to save weight. Modify intake to solve power delivery problem. Change the color of the bike and graphics - sell it as a 2005 machine at $1000 less!
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Jaime
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   Posted 12/3/2004 8:57 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dinoski:
 
What say you? One thousand dollars LESS retail price? With a rapidly crashing dollar against foreign currencies you are lucky not to see big price increases on foreign made items. Even USA assembled Japanese goods contain a high percentage of outside manufactured components. 'Tis the season to talk to Santa about basic economics!!!
 
If you are brand insensitive, just buy the cheapest of the big four and go have a blast. They are all so good and so close in performance...
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Smitty
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   Posted 12/3/2004 10:15 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think Jaime has it: Any modern 600 four is so similiar unless one is a die-hard for a specific make. Besides what is so important about shoot-outs when one of the bikes did not prove to be the best in the shoot-out crap & makes up for it in handeling, mid to top end power &/or better handeling? I would rather have the latter rather then a muscle bike.


Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

Post Edited (Smitty) : 12/4/2004 5:18:17 AM GMT

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Dinoski
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   Posted 12/4/2004 7:29 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jaime:

I agree with you but u don't see my point - The problems with the 2004 600 Honda according to the article are the following:
1. Too heavy
2. Power delivery problem
3. High price

I was merely suggesting the solutions to the problem of the bike to improve its performance and maybe Honda will sell more. - Make sense to you? U want me to make it more clearer?

Remove the heavy underseat exhaust and replace it with a conventional one to reduce weight.
Which will require a lighter less bulky swingarm - less weight
Bigger throttle bodies to improve and solve power delivery performance.
Use the same engine as last year - save money.

OH YEAH!, YAMAHA ALREADY DID THAT! AND ALL THEIR 600 SOLD OUT - HOW'S THAT FOR THE ECONOMY! idea
Simple econmics to me. Who's fault is it the dollar crashed anyways?
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chris_on_bike
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   Posted 12/4/2004 2:44 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
i would take the cbr600rr if its costs $7999.
lets put it this way: the world of japanese 600s price is rising, the honda from $8599 in '04 to $8799 in '05, the kawasaki was updated but the price rose to $8599 from $7999, the suzuki from $8099 to $8199, the yamaha from $8199 to $8399.
on the other hand, the brit, Triumph's Daytona 600 grew into a 650, the price? the same, $7999.
so all in all the triumph is more worth it in my opinion...
but not tht i mean the japanese r lousy. they r very cool machines, really, but the prices aren't cool.
someone must tell the japanese 4 to pull down the prices....
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Jaime
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   Posted 12/4/2004 5:51 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dinoski:

I get your point, 10-4 on your performance suggestions. I WAS making a point on the pricing differential suggested- $1,000.

Who's fault is the Dollar crashing? - all of us in the USA. Massive trade deficits - importing $700 billion worth of goods OVER what we exported this year, and budgetary deficits, close to $500 billion this fiscal year. To top it off, an unhealthy $8 trillion in debt to foreign countries...and counting! Estimated National internal debt close to $40 trillion, but who's counting?

Partial solution: buy Buells instead of Jap sport bikes!
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Dinoski
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   Posted 12/4/2004 7:51 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jaime:
-$1000 was a suggestion to lower the prices of the bikes - so everyone can enjoy riding a high perfomance bike at an affordable price. Are we in a motorcycle forum or a political forum? Pls read and refer to the article. Get the . ?
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Jaime
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   Posted 12/4/2004 8:42 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dinoski:

Yes, yes and no. It's not a political forum but trade aspects play into the price equation, AND since someone asked whose fault it was that the dollar was... couldn't help to POINT IT OUT! My apologies if I went
overboard, I just like economics (make no mistake, I like bikes much more!)

No further arguments, you are correct in wishing the prices could be made lower, I do too. I'm bikeless right now, but that 2005 Buell XB9SX is looking mighty good. Been riding since I was 13 years old back in 1970.

Cheers to all fellow bikers,

Jaime
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chris_on_bike
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   Posted 12/6/2004 11:01 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
honda is obviously making us paying more 4 less. the kawasaki is the best value in the 600 class, in my opinion.
im eyeing on 1, n it was so damn cool.
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mrrw60
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   Posted 12/8/2004 3:49 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
chris_on_bike said...
honda is obviously making us paying more 4 less. the kawasaki is the best value in the 600 class, in my opinion.
im eyeing on 1, n it was so damn cool.
 Kawis have the worst resale value.. You pay now or pay later. As for the extra pork! I will take it over the Kawi in terms of stability on the track. Owend a 04 Kawi and very unpredictible when holding a line. My new CBR 1000rr and the old RC51 that I miss dearly which are fat bastards rail corners and hold lines with ease out of the crate. The Kawi could use a couple grand in suspension to come close to Honda!
 
Me on my usual weekend ride!

Post Edited (mrrw60) : 12/8/2004 10:57:02 PM GMT

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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 12/9/2004 10:42 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
FYI to all: I just returned from Spain where I tested the new ZX-6R. I'm happy to tell mrrw60 that the ZX has got the improved suspension he suggested, as Kawi has fitted Showa suspension (like Honda). Stay tuned for our First Ride impression on MCUSA.


-KD, MCUSA Road Test Editor

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mrrw60
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   Posted 12/9/2004 10:58 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Cool, Now I need to scape up some cash for a 600.. Guess I will wait it out till I find a salvaged model.


 
Me on my Sunday ride.

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YellowDuck
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   Posted 12/9/2004 11:11 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
My impressoin after looking at all four Japanese 600s is that the Honda has the best build quality overall (as usual), but the Kaw is the coolest (love the monochrome color scheme), and is definitely the one I would buy. The extra displacement makes sense for the street, too.


I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.
Life's been good to me so far.
 

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Tarzan
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   Posted 12/19/2004 2:31 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Can the Honda stay competitive?"  All the mags rated the last edition as a pig only to watch it stomp the sheit out of World Super Sport competition.  I suspect it will do the same this year.  You guys will rate the kwak number one this time and the Honda will win anyway.
 
Yamaha won most if not all the shoot outs last year which matched the AMA racing results.  Yamaha was dominated there, barely, by the kwaks.
 
What's up with that anyway?  Why is Yamaha so dominant in AMA and Honda in FIM?  Is Ten Kate just too awesome in the turner department?
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BiffStroganoffsky
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   Posted 12/30/2004 1:52 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Howdy! I'm a newbie here but I just have a quick general question.

I noticed in the article that the bike showed up on your scale at some 410lbs. but is 'advertised' in the Honda brochure at a svelte 367lbs dry. Is it always the case that a 'delivered' bike always adds on that much weight? Does the coolant and oil really weigh that much or is it that 'dry' weight doesn't include other 'accessories' like the toolkit, manual, etc?

Thanks.
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YellowDuck
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   Posted 12/31/2004 2:04 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Don't forget the battery and the fuel, which are also always excluded from the stated weight on the Japanese bikes.


I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.
Life's been good to me so far.
 

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DataDan
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   Posted 12/31/2004 5:58 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Dry weight" as claimed by the manufacturers varies considerably from real weight (full tank of gas, ready to ride). For the Japanese sportbikes, a good rule of thumb is to add 60lb and you'll come pretty close. Triumph fudges more than that--the Rocket 3's "dry" weight is a full 100lb less than real weight. But Harley is quite close--it may actually be weight of the bike without fuel.
 
Note to Kevin Duke: Here's a way to estimate no-s**t full tank weight in a first ride report when you don't have an opportunity to weigh the bike. Find the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR) on the VIN plate. That's the max allowable weight of the motorcycle, fuel, riders, and cargo. Then subtract the MAXIMUM WEIGHT CAPACITY that appears on the tire sticker. That's the allowable load in riders and cargo that can be carried by the motorcycle with a full tank. The difference will be a good estimate of the full-tank weight.
 
For example, my '97 VFR750 has a GVWR of 912lb and MAXIMUM WEIGHT CAPACITY of 386lb. The difference, 526lb, is within a few pounds of the "full tank" weight reported by the magazines.


A superior rider uses superior judgment to avoid problems that would demand his superior skill.

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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 1/1/2005 1:36 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Always thinking, aren't you DataDan? Interesting theory using the bike's GVWR and max capacity to calculate the weight of a bike; that's a new one to me. I'll keep that in mind and check it out further in the future. The "add 60 pounds" to a manufacturer's stated dry weight is a fair bit less precise.
 
FYI, we weigh virtually every bike we test on our electronic Intercomp scales, the standard in the car and motorcycle industry. To make comparing weights as effective as possible, we subtract the weight of a full tank of gas to arrive at our published weights; full-tank weights are less comparable, as they punish bikes with larger tanks which we definitely don't want to do.
 
BTW, if you want to know exactly how much Triumph's Rocket 3 weighs, you won't have to wait much longer. We're putting together our Bruiser Cruiser showdown in which the Triumph, Kawasaki Vulcan 2000 and Honda Rune will go head to head against the backdrop of Arizona's backroads and city streets. In additon to accurate weights, we'll also be recording performance data on our Vbox to find out which bike inflicts the biggest bruises on the pavement. We're looking forward to this one.  


-KD, MCUSA Road Test Editor

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BiffStroganoffsky
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   Posted 1/3/2005 10:21 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hmm, just like the power ratings of amps and and speakers: real -vs- mean and/or max. It's a 'good thing (tm)' you guys do your own verification for us consumers who don't have bathroom scales that go beyond 212lbs. :)
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tankaz
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   Posted 2/22/2010 4:12 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
just wondering if the 2005 cbr600rr is fuel injected?
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thesoapster
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   Posted 2/22/2010 9:03 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
.........nice bump

Yes, it's fuel injected. The 03-04 generation 600RR (which was my first bike) was FI as well.
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