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bmadson
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   Posted 10/20/2005 8:21 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Duke wandered on up to Minnesota to take a stroll through the Victory factory and take a ride on some 2006 models like the Hammer and Jackpot. Read through the 2006 Victorys Ride & Factory Tour and then let us know what you think.
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jimmihaffa
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   Posted 10/20/2005 9:09 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Maybe off-topic, but is there even the smallest modicum of chance that Victory will evolve into an American rival for the big Jap 4?  They can obviously come close to matching wits with the Motor Co. for some of their signiture bikes.  Could they not try their hand at sport bike and standard designs too?  I'm a big Kawasaki fan, but I don't see why with sufficient growth, tech development and R & D, that an American firm couldn't step to the plate with leading edge sporting designs.  Maybe a Michael Czysz-Victory collaboration could bring to fruition a real alternative to Japanese designs for world-class sporting machinery....call me naive.   hop
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Desmolicious
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   Posted 10/20/2005 9:12 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Great stuff as usual Kevin. I'm really looking forward to the Kingpin Deluxe ride report as that is the bike that hold the most interest for me. While I think the fat tired look is cool, I far more enjoy a bike that just rides well. The fact that this baby can travel too is icing.
These bikes really are looking good now too, a huge improvement over the original stick-poking-you-in-the-eye Victories.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 10/20/2005 1:26 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, Desmolicious. I think the Kingpin Deluxe might be Victory's best offering and I got lots of miles on it.
 
Jimmi, in regard to your comment, don't forget that Polaris recently purchased 24% of KTM, with plans to increase that investment in two years if all works out. This might pave the way for something like you discussed, although I believe the Victory brand will likely remain as the cruiser provider. The first offering from the alliance will probably be a Polaris-developed ATV powered by a KTM motor. Stay tuned.


-KD, MCUSA Editor

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Jay Mack
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   Posted 10/20/2005 6:35 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I had the Touring Cruiser for a while and I liked it. It needed a re-design. Like many of the others that had that bike and the regular Classic Cruiser I wanted a classically styled new update from Victory. VIctory evidently determined that they had no market share in the classically styled cruisers, what with competition from H.D. and the Japs. I think they were wrong.

So Victory settled on the Custom look market. THat's fine, and they're doing a great job. They are really nice bikes. But they aren't building the bike that I and a lot of the earlier type customers wanted and would like to be buying from them. Their customs are impractical and expensive. They have poor resale value and are hard to trade-in. They're not for me.

If I may be so bold as to speak for some others, we had wanted a new American classic cruiser and bagger that was not a Harley. I know they're off the table and we're not going to get them. I'm looking over at Yamaha instead. Too bad, because I liked being a Vicster.

I'm not sure why they (Victory) feel that abandoning the base they had built - even if it was limited it was growing - made good business sense. I guess that I really do not think that the new market is going to be bigger or big enough to have walked away from the old one.


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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 10/21/2005 8:27 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jay, you sound a bit bitter about the Victory thing. You say they're not building the bike you like, something more classically styled. I'd counter that the only thing not classic on the Vegas is the scalloped tank, which is think is one of the cool and distinctive features on a Victory. In regards to your claims they are impractical and expensive, I'd say the Kingpin Deluxe is very practical - you can do anything on this bike. And Victory's prices still undercut what Harley charges.
 
Regarding the Touring Cruiser, you can be sure it will be updated within 12 months - the addition of the 100/6 is a no-brainer, and I'd be surprised if they didn't upgrade the chassis at the same time.
 
In summary, I don't believe Victory "abandoned the base they had built." Clearly, the impressive sales increases don't indicate that. After spending some time with the crew at Victory and seeing their modern facilities, I'm expecting even bigger things to come. Together with its recent acquisition of 24% of KTM (and planned full purchase in less than two years), Polaris (and Victory) is a company to watch.  


-KD, MCUSA Editor

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Jay Mack
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   Posted 10/21/2005 9:41 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I do see your point, K.D. Maybe Victory just didn't build what I was looking for soon enough and it's coming, eventually.
But I need a cruiser for next spring and it needs to have room to carry full sized bags rather than the smallish ones that come with the Kingpin, and I don't want to spend $650 on a Mustang seat to be comfortable over distance. As much as I like the Vegas, .... , well, let me reconsider.


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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 10/21/2005 11:13 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, Jay, it's hard to go wrong with nearly any bike these days. If Victory doesn't currently have exactly what you're looking for, that's okay. I just wanted to remind you that there's plenty more coming from the Victory crew.


-KD, MCUSA Editor

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CaddmannQ
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   Posted 10/28/2005 10:42 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Some pretty bikes for sure, but that one with the dual nitrous tanks on the forks bothers me. What were they thinking there? Not only do you add mondo amounts of unsprung weight, but if you ever crashed into something, those tanks would go off like a rocket.

Also, the Kingpin Deluxe should have real dual exhaust: one muffler on each side, so it could have some real bags instead of those silly lunchboxes hanging on the rear fender.

The Jackpot headlight sure appeals to me though, unlike the fugly stuff on the Kawi VN2000 and the new Roadliners.


Cadd
2004 Nomad 1500 "Baggins"
VROC #11619 Rolling Blunder #128

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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 10/28/2005 11:21 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Cadd, that bike with the nitrous tanks is really just for show. Also, regarding the Kingpin exhaust, its setup produces a better powerband than two separate pipes. Bigger bags would be nice, though. The Kingpin Deluxe I rode to Canada had a prototype top box that was super handy and really augmented the capacity of the small bags.


-KD, MCUSA Editor

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CaddmannQ
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   Posted 10/28/2005 3:23 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh, it looked to me like it has just shotgun pipes of the "over & under" type.


Cadd
2004 Nomad 1500 "Baggins"
VROC #11619 Rolling Blunder #128

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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 10/28/2005 5:05 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You'll find that almost any V-Twin produced by a major OEM has a crossover or collector that links the exhaust gases from both pipes. Without this, it is difficult to produce a linear powerband without a stumble in it. You might not have noticed it before because the crossover is often hidden.


-KD, MCUSA Editor

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shyguy344
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   Posted 11/1/2005 9:51 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kevin, Thanks so much for all of the excellent data on these bikes. I am planning a purchase later this year, and am agonizing over the R1200RT BMW and the Kawi Nomad 1600. My passenger is a large person, and like the adjustable rear suspension to keep everyone safe and comfortable. Do you feel that I should also consider the Victory? Cadd and Jay have been super with information and opinions, and I must compliment them and you with being a part of such a great site.
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Jay Mack
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   Posted 11/1/2005 10:57 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
shyguy344 said...
... Cadd and Jay ... I must compliment them and you with being a part of such a great site.


I must complement Cadd and Kevin.  It's a great site.  I'm just a poster mope, though, and have nothing to do with the high quality of the site.  They probably wish I'd go away 'cause I get annoying sometimes.

Kevin, you mean that when a Roadstar is modified with the dual Cobra pipes full system, it isn't going to run smoothly because the collector has been removed?  What'r'ya s'pose'd t'do? 


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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 11/1/2005 10:57 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
NP, shyguy. Your two final candidates for potential bikes is a bit confusing. Both are good bikes, but they're really in two different categories. Your best bet at this point is to bring your wife to a dealer to see which bike she feels most comfortable on. As long as the price of the RT doesn't scare you off, I have no hesitations about recommending it. But it won't cut it if what you want is a cruiser like the Nomad.
 
And to Jay, you and Cadd and all the other great posters on this board certainly play a part in making this site what it is. Thanks to you all for spreading the gospel of motorcycling.  
 
Also, Jay, Cobra's Speedster exhaust that looks to be two separate pipes has a crossover.


-KD, MCUSA Editor

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shyguy344
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   Posted 11/2/2005 5:00 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks, Kevin, for the input. I should probably have explained my selection better, I guess. I am looking for a bike that will be a good long distance ride with ample room and rear suspension to make it a pleasant trip. My current ride is a bit cramped, pushing me quite a bit forward, which obviously, makes the handling a bit more awkward. I know the Nomad has a good passenger space, but my love of BMW's still drives me back to that, with the minor inconvenience of it being a slightly higher bike, and me with my stubby 30" inseam. As I am sure you will agree, this part of the "journey" is half of the fun, anyway. Just the research, etc. and learning about every possible option keeps the blood flowing. Again, keep up the good work. I rarely do much with other sites except read, but you and the others really make me feel welcome and a part of this wonderful experience that we all share called "motorcycling". Thanks again,
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CaddmannQ
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   Posted 11/2/2005 6:25 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for all the props, guys. Since I mostly come here to feed my hungry ego, it's working out well. burger
 
Jay Mack: You are so far down on the annoyance meter compared to some folks that I wouldn't lose any sleep ove it.
 
Kevin: I inderstand about a balance tube or collector being desirable in the exhaust. When I said "real dual exhaust" I simply meant a symetrical arangement with one muffler on each side of the bike. That doesn't preclude the use of a collector, crossover, or balance tube (or in the case of the stock Nomad a huge ugly resonator chamber. :p )
 
It would allow at least 50% more bag volume. Those tiny bags are an insult IMO.


Cadd
2004 Nomad 1500 "Baggins"
VROC #11619 Rolling Blunder #128

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GeoffG
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   Posted 11/3/2005 9:58 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
jimmihaffa said...
...an American firm couldn't step to the plate with leading edge sporting designs. Maybe a Michael Czysz-Victory collaboration could bring to fruition a real alternative to Japanese designs for world-class sporting machinery...

Sorry, but I just read this, and it seems another North American rider blowing off Buell...I just don't understand. No, they don't have the power of a Big 4 literbike, or even a 600, but they DO have "leading edge sporting designs"--Buell XBs maintain higher average corner speeds than the 600s in FX racing (or at least they did in the 2004 season) and one British moto-mag (Bike) has recently proclaimed the XB12R to be the best cornering bike ever made. If you're riding on public roads with curves in 'em, a Buell is everything you'd want. Europeans seem to realize this (Europe is Buell's largest market, and their press is quite positive about Buells).

As for a Michael Czysz/Victory collaboration, well I'd like to see that too, but I dunno if it will happen...MotoCzysz' product is as yet totally unproven, and I can't see Victory going that route immediately after their purchase of KTM. The Motoczysz is certainly innovative, and I believe it will be a real player in the sportbike market if (and that's a big "if") and when it gets to market, although I somehow doubt it'll be cost competetive...

For the time being, the nice thing about Buells is that they're currently available, affordable, and fun (a LOT of fun) to ride!
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GeoffG
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   Posted 11/3/2005 10:16 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh, BTW, I liked the article, Kevin. Didn't mean to hijack the thread with my above post...

But I will say that I can certainly understand why any American startup motorcycle company might concentrate on cruisers--that's the market where being American is actually an asset, and where you haven't traditionally had to compete directly with the Big Four (although that's been changing, obviously).
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TC_Victory
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   Posted 11/3/2005 10:20 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ok, I'll make my first post in the site right now. Just finally got everything straightened out to get in thanx to Bart so I'll take advantage and make a few comments on this thread.
 
My site name is TC_Victory. Reason obvious. I ride a TC Vic with Stage II and Mustang seat and lots of other goodies. In the recent past I've had a Kawi 1500 Classic and Nomad, an Intruder 1400, a Harley Standard and Heritage. If you are looking for lots of room to stretch out on consider checking out the TC Cruiser. There are some great deals out there on 1 and 2 year old bikes. The Mustang seat leaves a huge amount of passenger room. My wife is small and I'm big and I'm more comfortable on the TC than any of my recent bikes. My wife has enough room that it is the first bike she can bring her legs into the bike instead of around my ample butt. I bought an '03 last fall new and the only negative I have is the suspension is stiff and was softened on the '04s and up. I admit it's not the prettiest bike they make, but it's not displeasing to me in the way something like the Rocket 3 or VTX is.
 
As for the Kingpin, Vegas, Hammer and Jackpot, I've ridden a lot on all of them except the Jackpot. If I rode solo a lot and liked to bar hop ( I do neither ) they'd be great rides. If I was smaller the Kingpin could do the touring job but it's just too small for us. Very similiar to the Intruder 1400 in size, and even tho I rode 30K+ on the 1400, wife and I always were cramped.
 
Stage I is almost standard on the TC and others that have the 92ci Freedom motor. This gives them very adequate power. The new 100/6 is a winner. I have Stage II in my bike and it pulls the wife and I at about 420#s, 300 mine, and a big load and trailer behind loaded on trips with far more power and torque than I've needed yet. It'll take a big grade at 60mph and roll on to 75 to pass without a downshift.
 
So, looking for the room you speak of I definitely think you should check out the TC if you have any decent dealers in your area. Being from MN this is not a problem for me since there are several good dealers available to me. Good luck in you quest for the right bike. You're right. Shopping is half the fun.
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CaddmannQ
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   Posted 11/3/2005 12:14 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Welcome to the board, TC_Victory.

I hope it was worth the effort. ;-)


Cadd
2004 Nomad 1500 "Baggins"
VROC #11619 Rolling Blunder #128

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Kevin Duke
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   Posted 11/3/2005 7:01 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Good to have your input, TC, and I'm sure several big guys out there can appreciate it. Welcome to the board!


-KD, MCUSA Editor

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shyguy344
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   Posted 11/4/2005 8:40 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hey TC, Welcome aboard. And....thanks for the info. I had looked at photos of the Victory, and it looked like it had considerable passenger room, which is very important to me, as I mentioned. I am kind of a little guy in need of a relatively low seat, but want some extra passenger room for my gal. I will definitely check more deeply into the Victory line, thanks to your advice. Take care and ride safe.....
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ToUtahNow
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   Posted 11/4/2005 12:16 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice write up. I'm glad to see Victory getting some positive press. The first couple of years were tough for Victory but they've hung in there.

As probably the only member on the site who owns six Victorys I have to say my Kingpin Deluxe is by far my favorite bike.

Mark


VMC Charter Member # 0005
VRA - CRC - Los Angeles Area
1999 - V92C # 1402 Anteras Red
1999 - V92C # 3584 Phat Black
2000 - V92SC Gray
2003 - Vegas Black
2004 - Kingpin Tourer Bronze Mist/Pearl White
2005 - Hammer Red w/Tribal Tattoos

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Jay Mack
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   Posted 11/4/2005 12:41 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ToUtahNow said...
Nice write up. I'm glad to see Victory getting some positive press. The first couple of years were tough for Victory but they've hung in there.

As probably the only member on the site who owns six Victorys I have to say my Kingpin Deluxe is by far my favorite bike.

Mark

SIX!???!!!


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