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bmadson
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  		   Posted 6/19/2006 7:42 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ken took a ride on BMW's massive sport-tourer the K1200GT. Take a look over Kenny's first ride impression on the new Beemer and then let us know what you think.
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bmwr100r
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  		   Posted 6/19/2006 8:45 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Looks like a great bike, but right now I would have a problem coming up with $20k for a car ,let alone a bike.

 A wise man's heart directs him toward the right ,but the foolish man's heart directs him toward the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Desmolicious
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  		   Posted 6/19/2006 12:36 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice report.  Really smart of BMW to hold a launch in the Sedona area.  It is so beautiful and has such fantastic roads that you're in a state of euphoria before even riding shiny new bikes!  Heck out there, you'd ride a VFR and think it was the greatest thing ever! (just kidding fellas! ).  All the times I've been out there I've been in my Jeep to enjoy the trails and camping, but one of these days I gotta ride there.
About the bike.. afew weeks ago a new owner had his break down at the Rock Store in CA with just 70-ish miles on the clock.  Hadn't even burnt through 2 gallons of gas.  But, I just mention i cuz I was one of the many witnesses that tried to help him to no avail (spouting useless stuff like, is the side stand down etc).  The bike itself is really sweet, and would be my choice over the R1200Rt.  I test rode that and thought it would be great if it wasn't slow and vibey.  Sounds like the K1200GT is just the ticket.  $20K seems expensive until you compare it to its rivals.  None of them offer the features eg ESA suspension, the YAm and Honda also have much less cornering clearance.  The BMW is just an upmarket product, as long as it is running. BMW also tends to offer much better financing rates than do the Japanese mfgs, so that takes away some $ting.
As for other rivals, a Harley full dress tourer costs more and offers much much less, but peeps line up for those.  Goldwings also cost about the same, but has emphasis on comfort over performance but peeps also don't mind paying for those.
If I got a K12, I'd get the trunk too, then have psuedo sportbike performance with Goldwing luggage levels.

Børk! Børk! Børk!

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HOSSACK
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  		   Posted 6/19/2006 3:54 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am just pleased to see that the invention I started work on over 25 years ago is finaly meeting the world and impressing people as it dose. I get a warm fizzy each time I read a good report. its nice knowing that I was right way back then.
 
Norman Hossack
 
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Desmolicious
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  		   Posted 6/19/2006 5:01 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice work Mr. Hossack, are you getting any royalties from BMW?. I really hope so, you certainly deserve it.

Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Kevin Duke
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  		   Posted 6/19/2006 5:09 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Norman Hossack said...
I am just pleased to see that the invention I started work on over 25 years ago is finaly meeting the world and impressing people
Wow - we're in the presence of suspension royalty! For those unaware, Mr. Hossack is the inventor of the design that BMW calls Duolever, which is used on the new K bikes from BMW. What I didn't know until after reading his interesting website is that BMW doesn't have to pay to use his design.
 
Norman, I was unable to open the PDF to see the letter you wrote to BMW, which I'm guessing explains part of the story. Did your patent run out?
 
Also, if the Hossack design can be made as light or lighter than telescopic forks, the many other advantages of the design would seem to be worth exploring in MotoGP. Might even fix Rossi's chatter problem...
 
Thanks for visiting MotorcycleUSA, Norman. Come back often.

-KD, MotorcycleUSA Editor -Ride with a smile

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gagster
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  		   Posted 6/19/2006 6:36 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I think I would really like one of these.  The R/RT is nice and the engine is simple, but the GT's liquid cooled 4 cylinder would probably last me the rest of my life and it's fast too.  I had a K100 and never adjusted the valves in over 27,000 miles of riding.  Taking those things in every 6,000 miles for a $600 maintenance check really adds up after a while, you know.  The (very honest) BMW dealership in Kansas City said don't worry about even checking it for 75,000 at least.  The only reason I got rid of it was because the transmission shaft splines could fail without frequent and expensive maintenance. They would almost always fail without warning, too.  I think it was a poor design.  Hopefully, the new shaft drive system is more durable.  Even the last design used in the R1150s often expensively failed at about 40,000 miles.  I wonder if the valves in this new BMW engine will hold spec as well as the old K100? I'm sure BMW wants everyone to do the old 6,000mi/$600 deal. 

To me, a comfortable, good handling and thrilling fast machine that has very little (or very easy) maintenance requirements is the ticket.  The FJR sites say that it has to have the fuel injection system re-synchronized about every 4,000 miles or so.  That's ridiculous, if true. It's for this very reason that I wouldn't even consider buying one(as well as the fact that you have to order one and wait months to get it).  The fuel injection synch would be nothing but a frequent aggravation for me to do, or an expensive maintenance item that the local shops around here probably couldn't do correctly anyway.

20K is a lot of dough, especially since I've never bought a new car that cost that much. I will probably soon buy a ZX-14 for a little more than half and have lots of money left over for fuel, tires, and tickets. :-)

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Desmolicious
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  		   Posted 6/19/2006 9:20 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Gagster, I really don't believe that about the FI balance being needed every 4K miles. Remember the source - the FJR site where they see the BMW as the enemy! On one site an owner of a new 06 FJR rode the new GT and wrote a comparo test. Basically said the BMW owned his Yam, but because of the price difference he was ok with that. As for the shaft drives, there are reports now of failures in the new GS just like on the old ones. I guess it is appearing on the GS first as that bike has been out the longest from the new series of BMW's. I really don't get these failures, I've had other brands with shaft drives and never heard of failures. Must be that paralever design that puts a second joint close to the axle.

Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Reg
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  		   Posted 6/20/2006 3:41 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I have owned my K1200GT for about 6 weeks now. This is the complete package. Power is awesome. The bike handles like its on rails. It is comfortable enough to cover all the miles you would want in a day. The ESA is remarkable. BMW got it right in a big way with this bike!

Thanks for the test!
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gagster
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  		   Posted 6/20/2006 2:08 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for your input, Desmolicious.  I hadn't heard about the failures in the new BMW shaft drive system although somehow it doesn't surprise me.  It may be that the transmission input shaft splines are still going out.  They run dry (except for a little dab of grease) and a failure also destroys the automotive style dry clutch. The transmission (on the old ones at least) had to be slid back or removed so the splines could be cleaned and lubed.  BMW may have changed this but I doubt it.  Some BMW's do seem to last forever, but others give terrible service according to Micapeak.com.  I have mixed feelings about the one I owned.  The 4 cylinder engine was slow and buzzy but unbelievably durable and reliable.  If the drive system had been worth a plugged nickel, I would have kept it.  But I just always had the feeling it was going to leave me stranded somewhere out in the middle of nowhere.  I've always felt that it would be easy for BMW to just put self adjusting valves in their mostly low revving machines, but the dealerships evidently need the maintenance business to stay afloat.  Hence the nickname Bavarian Money Waster, etc.  Ever since they switched from the old simple shaft to the newer ones that try to eliminate the diving effect, they have had lots of reliability problems.
 
A friend of mine has a Valkyrie and he hates the shaft drive because he says it needs to be disassembled and lubed and have three rubber o-rings replaced about every 6-8,000 miles or when the tire is replaced. It's a several hour project.  He rides a lot and has to do it quite often.  I think this is one way Harley may have everyone else beat with its belt drive.  No adjusting or lubing.  Usually, I like high tech stuff, but in this case, simpler may be better.  I'm curious, though, how the Ulysses drive system will hold up over the long run in the dirt and water. 
 
My ZX9R has about 21,000 miles on it and the chain and sprockets are like new.  All I ever did was clean it with WD40 every 400 miles or so, spray a little quality lube on it and wipe off the excess.  I think I made miniscule adjustments about two or three times.  Even with hundreds of power wheelies, the chain never seemed to wear. Although it was somewhat of a hassle, cleaning and lubing took about 10 minutes and a monkey could do it. 
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HOSSACK
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  		   Posted 6/20/2006 4:43 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This is a response to questions raised by Kevin Duke.  
 
My patents ran out after their normal life of of approximately 18 years. This, I guess means they ended just after BMW started their K1200 program. BMW did start their development with a different system and then changed to a HOSSACK after a year or so. 
 
They have offered me nothing. They were kind enough to fly me to Munich and introduce me to the R&D team 18 months ago.
 
I have included my open letter to BMW.
 
 
Norman HOSSACK 
 
 
My mantra.       There is no such thing as a DUO---- its called a HOSSACK 
 
     

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Desmolicious
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  		   Posted 6/20/2006 5:25 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
gagster said...
Thanks for your input, Desmolicious.  I hadn't heard about the failures in the new BMW shaft drive system although somehow it doesn't surprise me.  It may be that the transmission input shaft splines are still going out.  They run dry (except for a little dab of grease) and a failure also destroys the automotive style dry clutch. The transmission (on the old ones at least) had to be slid back or removed so the splines could be cleaned and lubed.  BMW may have changed this but I doubt it.  ....
 
A friend of mine has a Valkyrie and he hates the shaft drive because he says it needs to be disassembled and lubed and have three rubber o-rings replaced about every 6-8,000 miles or when the tire is replaced. It's a several hour project.  He rides a lot and has to do it quite often. 
Gagster, the new BMW shafts are different as they are "sealed for life" and so are not meant to require any service.  I guess it's what their definition of life is!  A member of our Ducati group went touring on the continent with a friend and his new R12GS. It had only a few thousand miles on it when its shaft drive blew.  On adventuretouring.net (I think that is the name of the site) there are many tales of woe with these failures. But, I do not know if the shaft drive in the GS is the same as the GT. The GT makes much more power so you'd think it's upgraded etc.
As fot the Valkyrie, that's really weird. I've never heard of that maintenance nor have I seen it in my owner's manual on the Valkyrie that I owned and put 20K miles on. I've also had a Honda Goldwing 1200 and 1800 and all I ever did for shaft maintenance was drain the oil in it and replace maybe every 10K miles. That took about 5minutes  to do. I put a total of about 150,000 miles on those 3 bikes and never had any issues with the shaft drives. 

Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Jay Mack
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  		   Posted 6/23/2006 6:24 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

There are some interesting issues here in these comments. 

If BMW isnt paying Mr. Hossack - beautiful design, by the way, Mr. Hossack- then BMW has no exclusive rights or proprietiary interest to the system.  That's interesting. Wouldn't other motorcycle manufacturers - about five occur to me - be interested in incorporating the Hossack onto their motorcycles too?  Especially for free?  Why aren't we seeing this?

 

And, Desmo, did you really think that the R1200RT was slow and vibey?  I haven't ridden one.  I thought they were supposed to be light and agile?

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Desmolicious
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  		   Posted 6/23/2006 9:26 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jay, the RT is agile (for its size), has great suspension and brakes. For me the downside is the motor. While it is much better and smoother than the older generation twins, it is slow revving and still vibey. (At about 75-80mph and up on the freeway it is really noticeable). During my test rides on the BMW demo days (really excellent of them by the way as it is not just a jaunt around the block), I took out both the R12St and the R12rt. The St had more oomph (and I like it more cuz it was just more fun) due to weighing less, but to gauge speed/power I rolled on full throttle in 2nd gear on both bikes from about 25 mph to redline to see what they got. If you do this on my bike (a Duc St4s) you get your ears pinned back and the bike will rocket off. Same thing on a Triump St. Even my old Goldwing 18000 would do that! But the Beemers just accelerated in a slowish fashion. They make good power so it must be the heavy reciprocating mass of the engine internals that just prevent them from spooling up quickly. The gear boxes are much , much better than the older bikes but they still have a lot of driveline lash at low speeds. So, for me the R12s are a chassis looking for a motor. Which is where the K1200s and now the GT step in. It seems they have all the bases covered.
But, if you do not care as much for the sport in the sport touring, the twins would be great especially 2-up, as normally riding 2-up one tends to be less aggresive with the throttle (well at least in my case! ) . Thing is, if you are interested just take a test ride. Bmw dealers are great about this, and what may matter to me may not matter to you. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Jay Mack
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  		   Posted 6/26/2006 9:44 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The older BMWs, the R100s, of course, were known for their large flywheels. In fact, they had flywheel lightening procedures for those who wanted to spool up quicker. I'd never heard of doing that to anything but an older BMW. So, what you're saying is that the larger flywheel is still the order of the day. I'm sure you're right.

The up side is that it tends to offer a smoother ride with more engine inertia and you can come to a stop in second gear and resume again without clutching or starting out in first gear. So that parts OK. I guesss if I want to have my ears pinned back, I should stick with my TIger. I will.

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nowakrider
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  		   Posted 7/17/2006 9:33 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am going to butt in a little perhaps, but, i am an older rider(61) have been riding for 45 yrs. my last 2 rides were Ducati-ST4,ST4s respecively. i went to BMW to drive a R1200RT,thinking that i was getting a bit old ,had started getting neck,shoulder pain, which i attributed to the ridnig position. i thought i needed more comfort on those longer trips. While i was waiting for the twin to come back from another test ride, the sales lady said,"why don't you try the K1200s?". i said, no thanks, it's too much like my Ducati"(thinking driving position, and performance). She conviunced me to take a ride, and i am here to tell you that BMWK is like night and day form the Ducati. The Ducati is really cool, mind, but the K is is , well comaring a P-51 Mustang, to a F-15 Eagle.
This buike does it all and then some , but it does it with class. it certainly is fast enough, corners as good as anything, and moreover , i am back to 400-550 a day w/o complaint. the suspension is incredible, my mileage at 70-75MPH, is 48-52.
one last thing, i decided to buy a new helmut to celebrate my new motorcyle, and the sales lady said, you need a smaller size, the size you have will lift your head and give you neck and shoulder strain............
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Kevin Duke
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  		   Posted 7/18/2006 7:04 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ride on, nowakrider!

-KD, MotorcycleUSA Editor

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