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| Motorcycle Message Board - Motorcycle USA > MotorcycleUSA.com! > Bike Reviews > 2007 BMW F800S / ST - First Ride | Forum Quick Jump
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Harley1
Forum Moderator
      
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 247
| Posted 5/21/2007 7:32 AM (GMT -8) |   | | MCUSA editor Ken Hutchison traveled to the Big Island of Hawaii to test the 2007 BMW F800S, a motorcycle designed specifically to fill the middleweight entry-level void in the ever expanding BMW line-up. Let's hear your take on the article here in the MCUSA Forum. | | Back to Top | | |
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Dinne
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 2
| Posted 5/21/2007 10:20 AM (GMT -8) | | As a BMW owner I understand both sides of the "value" issue. From my standpoint it is similar to a Corvette vs. a Porche 911. Sure a Corvette can perform as well as the 911 but it's not a 911.
Another thing from the video, the only motor on the bike is the starter motor. It does however have a 798cc ENGINE.
Dinne | | Back to Top | | |
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Kenny
MCUSA - Editorial Director
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 460
| Posted 5/21/2007 10:42 AM (GMT -8) | | | Desmo - Hello! Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the kitchen? You might want to join Lou at the perpetually whining BMW hater club, please. Table for two! He'll be here in a few. Oh yeah, the competitive $ caption (cough, cough) has been, um, updated...per my instructions (I dont build all the captions these days - sorry buddy - can I buy you a shot of Stolis to ease the pain before Lou gets here?) ;) - To the high-end BMW machines would be my answer if we were to battle over it but I wont - good call. Parts bin - Yeah, the UJM parts bin specials. They have their place too, nothing really wrong with them if you like following the other lemmings with the extra 3K in their fanny packs as they migrate mindlessly off the cliff of anonymity into the sea of blah - Do I need to elaborate on it further or is there any plausible deniability to that statement that I might have missed? This motor is definitely from the Beemer parts bin, but I never said it wasn't. The frame came from a manufacturing plant somewhere in Europe, handcrafted with love by a robot named Otto. It, and the rest of the bike is original BMW baby, what's the point again? Bjork, bjork, bjork. This thing will lay waste to any mini-van, mark my words. Wake up damnit, I'm ranting - sure this bike isn't for you but its cool, it has its place in this world even if its not in your garage.
Dinne: For a minute there...you were cool...then you had to go get all technical on us there...sheesh!
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Nplateau
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 1
| Posted 5/21/2007 3:38 PM (GMT -8) | | Would it be possible to see a "Middle-weight Sport-tourer" comparo in the future pitting the BMW F800 ST vs. Honda VFR vs. Ducati ST3 vs. Triumph Sprint ST?
Yeah, there is quite a gap between the 85 hp BMW and the 125 hp Triumph, but considering the relative prices of the bikes, it would be interesting to see what bike slots where in the overall value to ability ratios.
It would also be cool to see a comparo of sport-tourers that aren't in the super-huge engine category (that new Concours is waaaay too much bike for me, at least for now).
Having ridden a couple of these bikes myself, I lean towards the VFR for overall goodness and fit and finish, but I would really like to hear what the pros have to say. Lastly, I would like to hear some real world cost of ownership information as I know maintenance on the VFR is ridiculously expensive (I don't own one, but those I know that do complain quite a bit). | | Back to Top | | |
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Cap'n
Shiny Side Up
Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 1064
| Posted 5/21/2007 4:31 PM (GMT -8) | | |
I got my wish! Well, except for it being Duke doing the reviewing, but I wasn't stuck on that part. You guys did a great job highlighting its good points (and thus being invited back next time) while not *entirely* glossing over the fact that the bike costs, in all honesty, a good bit more than it should.
Desmolicious said...
"The competitively-priced 2007 BMW F800S "
To what?
"At $9,950 for the F800S and $10,950 for the F800ST with no options whatsoever" Yep, this was my initial reaction too, which has of course been covered pretty well. It's an easy point to nitpick, but then it was the first caption in the article, too - right up front where you couldn't miss it. The answer is "compared to other beemers," of course, and not "compared to any/everything else."
Lou - I can only say this much, as an attempt to explain why anyone would ever buy the bike, ever. When I see that bike, it looks "right" to me. It's my size, it has enough power to do what I want it to, and (I know this will bounce off the well-worn full body leather suit you're undoubtedly wearing around the house, but what the hell) not everybody wants a ZX10. Hell, I'm pushing maybe 92 at the rear wheel, and I raaaaarely ever go up and grab a handfull of the good stuff around 14k. All else being equal (coughPRICEcough), I'd trade 7hp for good weather protection, slick-ass factory bags, factory heated grips, and the ability to drive something few other people do. It's getting to the point where I get excited anytime I see something that isn't a GSXR, ZX-6, CBR, or recent cruiser.
Summation: Not everybody feels the need to constantly push the envelope.
82 Suzi GS300L 02 Kawi Vulcan 500
07 Yam FZ6
4 Yrs, 18,000 miles
"The first thing to learn about street riding is not to start on an R6." -Luke | | Back to Top | | |
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core
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2006
Total Posts : 14
| Posted 5/21/2007 6:00 PM (GMT -8) | | I agree that it's overpriced even for a beemer. Especially for a bike that looks (from the photos) like a cleaned up V-Strom (lose that ridiculous, clunky quarter fairing PLEASE!!!).
Haven't ridden it, though, so maybe it's great. It just doesn't look or sound like it from here. | | Back to Top | | |
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gagster
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 62
| Posted 5/21/2007 6:43 PM (GMT -8) | | I kind of had a love/hate relationship with my old BMW K100LT. On one hand, it had lots of engine heat, it whined terribly, had the old transmission spline deal to worry about, and was geared too low. On the other hand, it was utterly reliable, and had a feel(that I can't describe) like no other bike. Most maintenance on it was very easy, too. I bought a Ninja ZX9R and was able to switch off riding them. The Ninja was exciting, brutally fast, very light and the maintenance was a real pain. The BMW was just the opposite, but after riding the Ninja for a few days, I was usually very happy to get on the much more confortable and practical BMW. The Ninja ate tires, but the BMW was cheap to maintain, since I did the work myself. I sold both of these very reliable machines, but I wish I had kept the BMW more.
I know that old bike can't compare to the newer BMW's and the Asian machines have moved light years ahead too, but I still find myself wishing for a BMW. No, they aren't cheap, and yes they still have weird things about them, but I'd like to find a good used R1200RT that's out of warranty so that I don't have to take it into the shop for the ridiculously frequent and pricey maintenance. I'd bet that BMW would sell a lot more bikes if they offered free maintenance during the warranty like they do on their cars. I know if I bought a ZX-14, I would be very disappointed when Suzuki comes out with their rumored 6 cylinder Hayabusa next year or the updated ZX-15(?) a couple of years after that. Then, the ZX-14 would just be a double "has been" before I even got it paid for. I'd rather get a practical, comfortable machine that I could keep and enjoy for years to come.
I like the F800 machines, and if I didn't have both of my kids poised for college, I might buy the ST. They are belt drive and I wouldn't have to clean, lube and adjust a chain, or worry about driveshaft failures. I hear that even the newest driveshaft system on the BMWs are prone to failure. Too bad.
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louemc
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 15451
| Posted 5/21/2007 8:41 PM (GMT -8) | | Cap'n said...
Lou - I can only say this much, as an attempt to explain why anyone would ever buy the bike, ever. When I see that bike, it looks "right" to me. It's my size, it has enough power to do what I want it to, and (I know this will bounce off the well-worn full body leather suit you're undoubtedly wearing around the house, but what the hell) not everybody wants a ZX10. Hell, I'm pushing maybe 92 at the rear wheel, and I raaaaarely ever go up and grab a handfull of the good stuff around 14k. All else being equal (coughPRICEcough), I'd trade 7hp for good weather protection, slick-ass factory bags, factory heated grips, and the ability to drive something few other people do. It's getting to the point where I get excited anytime I see something that isn't a GSXR, ZX-6, CBR, or recent cruiser.
Summation: Not everybody feels the need to constantly push the envelope.
I'm not suggesting that anyone else rides a Green 05 ZX10 like mine (fat chance anyone is going to pull that one off  ) Talk about something few others do , but that is all not the point anyway. Fact is, there is no point, any point would point out the bike being a rip off, the least bang for the buck in the industry award. (can I slip in another )
Focus the forces, Be The Force | | Back to Top | | |
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hipsabad
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 29
| Posted 5/21/2007 11:53 PM (GMT -8) | | I have ridden the BMW F800S and F800ST because I was interested in possibly owning either one. Why? Well, I've owned a bunch of new bikes recently: R1, CBR1000, CBR600, GSXR600, FZ1, DL1000 V-Strom, Honda 599, Suzuki SV650, '89 Honda Hawk 650, Ducatis and KTMs, all good in their own way but I'm interested in a bike for long distance that isn't a porker. I like power but I also love the handling of a light bike. The V-Strom was an exceptional bike for distance but a tad high and heavy. If Suzuki really tried they could refine this bike into a killer but the Japanese are slow to change bikes unless they are sportbikes -- look at the KLR650. I tried an FJR1300 -- too heavy, too portly for me. I also tried a Triumph Tiger 1050 -- similarly fine at speed but a tad tall and ungainly at low speeds traffic manoeuvring, not to mention a face only the mother of a Transformer could love. (As to the look of bikes, it's so subjective an area that serious discussion becomes impossible; eye of the beholder etc.) The F800 bikes seemed to have the potential I was looking for. And another thing, maybe I'm wrong but I think belt drive is an idea that makes sense on bikes. After riding the F800 bikes I can agree with the MCUSA review about a few things. The suspension was unusually plush and refined feeling. It felt like the controlled compliance that one usually finds with linkage systems but this had no linkage. The belt felt great -- smooth, quiet, direct. The engine had a very even power curve, a bit boring really. IMO, however, the engine was a bit agricultural feeling, both in the roughness of sound at low rpm and the vibratory feel at higher rpm. The transmission did not like finding neutral (except for a few false neutrals between the higher gears). Some of this might be a matter of getting used to the tranny but if it was a Japanese bike it would be a defect and would be replaced on warranty -- or it might be a Kawasaki. ;) Transmission idiosyncracies can be worked around, but the vibes, for me, are something that only gets in the way of the tactile sensation of the tires and suspension as they tell me what's happening at the road surface. I accept that some folks prefer big and constant vibrations but, for me, the longevity of the nerves in my hands and the usefulness of road-surface feedback make me feel otherwise. The riding position seemed reasonable to me, though it was too leg-cramped to be a great long-distance machine. The passenger accommodations suffered from too thin and too small a seat, and also the cramped peg position. Seemingly gone are the days when BMW stood for sensible, practical passenger digs. Maybe the BMW engineers, proud weasels that they are, will tell us to get an R1200RT if we must carry a passenger.
Speaking of BMW engineers, I would sure love to hear their excuse for their useless turn-signal situation. Do they not pride themselves on being logical? Maybe you could argue that the simple-minded need to have the left turn switch on the left side and the right on the right side, despite the added complexity and even though car drivers don't require it. But then why have one cancel switch? Wouldn't the same logic require having two cancel switches to match the two activation switches? And why put the cancellation switch on the throttle side for god's sake. My test ride really brought out the inferiority of this system in traffic situations. Even if you become used to it, I don't see how it is better. Is there any justification for this system? And is there an aftermarket cure for it?
I used to really like BMW twins at one time with their emphasis on simplicity, longevity, ease of valve maintenance, shaft drive, great seats and long-travel suspension. Good long-distance bikes. I don't know how many of those qualities exist on the F800 bikes. The day I rode the F800 bikes I also rode the R1200R -- their so-called naked bike. I thought it made a very good light, sport-touring option, better than the F800 series, IMO. Whether the shaft drive is as cheap to run and as trouble-free as the belt remains to be seen. The R1200R also suffered from cramped pegs and small, thin passenger seating but there are aftermarket peg improvements and, I suppose, seat options as well.
BMWs are certainly overpriced but is that due to their superiority to the Japanese in performance or reliability (look at their cars)? More likely it's due to the higher labour and other costs associated with the German social economy. I don't think conspicuous consumption is good for our collective souls and so I will not comment on the preferences of some people to own motorcycles that are known to be expensive. As far as wanting to have a bike that is less common, each to his own but for me it's a concern that would come after the functional attributes of a bike. Besides, are BMWs all that uncommon? I have noticed in their increasingly swanky showrooms that there is a bit of a condescending attitude at times towards the great unwashed that can't afford the pristine excellence that is BMW. I don't know if I should trust a motorcycle shop that does not like getting a little dirty?;)
Just my two cents. Well at this length more like 25 cents ;) | | Back to Top | | |
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EdbearNZ
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1047
| Posted 5/22/2007 1:29 AM (GMT -8) | | |
Hipsabad, (so are mine...), you basically summed up my sentiments perzackly! I do wonder where some of the traditional European manufacturers are going these days, not just with BMW bikes but cars as well.
Personally I love my C50T, having switched from a sportsbike at the request of my wife who demanded more pillion room and comfort than the 600 Katana could give her. Finally getting her back on pillion after 30 years, I was happy to oblige and we're discovering a new common interest now we're "Darby and Joan" with the kids all grown up and off our hands! Bikes are not strictly a logical purchase and the fact that there are so many different models, styles, sizes, configurations, etc. reflects the huge diversity of people who love to ride!
I could happily tour the country on the Boulevard and if other bikes are better in some ways, either power, handling, brakes or comfort, who really cares? For what I paid for mine, I can't think of enough modifications I could do to it that would equal the cost of a BMW to make it better! I loved my 1989 Katana, too, yet it's an old nail now compared to the new GSX-R! My dream garage would have many different bikes of many different styles and sizes and colours!
If someone buys an 800 BMW and loves it, GREAT! They're not my cup of char, but then I like the Royal Enfield and the Kawasaki W650 and the Triumph Rocket and the Aprilia RS250 and the GSX-R750 and,and,and...!
Pics of our first ride together on the Katana after said 30 years. (She was rather sore after an 8hr trip!). Our new Boulevard which we both love spending time on!
Now we just gotta get matching helmets...
They say you're only young once! I'm trying to make it last...Post Edited (EdbearNZ) : 5/22/2007 9:35:26 AM GMT
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Desmolicious
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2004
Total Posts : 4618
| Posted 5/22/2007 10:08 AM (GMT -8) | | Cap'n, I haven't ridden the WeeStrom but I have ridden the SV650 (same motor and gear box) and can compare that to the F800 which I have also ridden. The Suzi motor feels much more lively and smoother (the vibes are a more pleasant vtwin pulse) with a smoother gear box. The F800 motor feels more agricultural compared to it, and actually looks it too (look at the close ups, IMO the motor looks like some type of bilge pump).
What is interesting, is the base $10 or $11K price does not even include a center stand. That's an option... The Yam FZ1, Suzi Bandit 1250 include centerstands as standard, as well as a motor that can't be confused with a pump...
by the by, I'm not a BMW hater, I really like the K12S and the R12RT. I can see dropping the coin on those. But the F800 is such as sorry excuse for a bike that costs that much, it really is beyond lame.
If the only thing that you have ridden made say, 40 hp then yes it will seem really nice. As long as you don't look around and see what else is on the market place.
Børk! Børk! Børk! | | Back to Top | | |
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