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Hilde44
MotoUSA - Dirt Guy

Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 469

Posted 8/17/2007 1:41 PM (GMT -8)

We have always liked Honda's 450X model, but there are a few things that fall a little short for our tastes. We spent the past few months abusing and tinkering with the X in an attempt to make it fit our tester like a tailored monkey suit. First thing first - suspension. Read the Report.

Chedda
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 70

Posted 8/19/2007 9:43 PM (GMT -8)

Interesteing piece.

Hilde44
MotoUSA - Dirt Guy

Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 469

Posted 8/20/2007 8:15 AM (GMT -8)

I couldn't believe how much better our Project Bike was after Watson got finished working his magic. I've always been a believer that the stock suspension these days are so good that they will work adequately for just about everyone. I still believe that is true, to a degree, but now that I've seen the light with custom sticks - I'll never own another bike without dialed suspension. It makes riding even more fun.

Hilde44
MotoUSA - Dirt Guy

Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 469

Posted 9/5/2007 2:11 PM (GMT -8)

Anybody out there have a story about their custom suspension experience? How about on your street bikes? The amount of improvement on our CRF-X was so dramatic, I can't imagine that street bikes respond to suspension tuning as much as dirtbikes - or am I mistaken?

tjbechtel
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 7

Posted 9/24/2007 4:22 PM (GMT -8)

I have been riding a cruiser for a little over a year. It has been a great starter bike. Although, it is a little old. As a matter of fact its older than I. I am looking to get a new bike, not a brand new, but new to me. My friends have been telling me to look into a Honda CBR f3i, a Yamaha R6, and I have been thinking about a Katana 750. Anyone have an oppinion on this. Keep in mind, I am not looking to have a bike for racing. Actually I prefer to keep it under 80. But, I do want something that will hold up and be a good bike! roll

ro7939
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 57

Posted 12/8/2007 4:22 PM (GMT -8)

Please explain:

In the '05 model full road test, stock bike (allegedly), all new model, same website, the bike walks on water. (Read it if you need proof.)

In this article the '06-'07 model handling is "shit".

Did Honda degrade the suspension after the '05 premiere? Do co-workers never read each other's work? Did Honda provide factory-prepped "ringers" for the '05 premier road test?

Editors need to be familiar model evolution. They can then order those lower in the food chain to include some 'splainin' when these glaring discrepencies appear. C'mon! Talk to each other! Do some detective work. Ask H some questions. Consumers can't help but wonder if these road test premiers are just a nice journalist vacation getaway.

For instance: "Hey, the new Hayabusa does 9-second quarters!"

New model two years later barely breaks 11 seconds. Don't you think this might deserve some 'splainin'?

Post Edited (ro7939) : 12/9/2007 12:34:24 AM GMT

ro7939
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 57

Posted 12/8/2007 4:44 PM (GMT -8)

Ditto my last entry:

Read the '05 premire full road test almost exact same bike. It walks on water. VIRTUALLY PERFECT OVERALL ENGINE PERFORMANCE & ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC POWER.

Stock motor of the exact same model one year later (no signifcant changes from '05 premier) runs like shit.

What the heck gives? With all due respect, you can not really blame readers for suspecting you might just be writing ad copy for:

1. Big Red in the first article.

2. Aftermarket ads in this article.

You just can not expect readers to miss or ignore these glaring discrepencies. Outrageous. I'm considering deleting this bookmark.

Hilde44
MotoUSA - Dirt Guy

Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 469

Posted 12/10/2007 9:27 AM (GMT -8)

I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing here, RO, seeing how we never did a full "road test" of the 2005 CRF450X. However, if we are... Given the evolution of the 450X and the corresponding market, and the 450 4-stroke MXers as well, the rate of development and competitiveness has raised our expectations on how these machines are supposed to handle. If we were to get ahold of a fresh 2005 CRF450X tomorrow then I'm sure our opinion would be very different than our coworkers' 2-year-old review.

The equipment is so good now that our first impressions are typically very positive, we recognize this, but that hardly makes it ad copy. As for the aftermarket goodies and our presentation of them - isn't that the purpose of a project bike? We choose components that we think will be a good fit and improve the stock machine, so it makes sense, doesn't it, that the our test results are positive?

ro7939
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 57

Posted 12/10/2007 9:56 AM (GMT -8)

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, more than I expected.

Sorry for the mistake calling a complete dirt bike test a "road test". I have an appointment but will briefly quote from the two contradictory articles both from your site, when I return.

IMO overall industry improvements can not explain the discrepencies we can all peruse in a couple hours together. BTW I think it was only a year between the two articles but we'll confirm that together also.

Bikes improve, but I TEND to agree it's still mostly the rider. On a road I got to know too well I flew by good AFM amatuer racers like they were in reverse: me on a bone stock '83 Yamaha Vision minus fairing (way before you were born probably) one of the victims on a grey-market import Yamaha RZV500. Vision a stock V-twin streetbike, RZV500 a multicylinder GP racebike converted for street duty. Even though the Vision & Kawasaki GPZ500 were the two best midsize street bikes of that era readers can barely imagine how much more performance was packed in the RZV500.

15-20 years later on the same road, large group of very fast street racers who all knew the same road pretty darn well, the only guy I could catch up to but not pass was on a modified Yamaha R1...I was on a mostly stock Moto Guzzi Quota.

Thanks for your consideration here. Off to get a haircut.

Post Edited (ro7939) : 12/10/2007 6:04:40 PM GMT

Hilde44
MotoUSA - Dirt Guy

Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 469

Posted 12/10/2007 10:11 AM (GMT -8)

Sorry, RO, I'm still confused. What's all this about streetbikes? Are you in the correct forum? Talk to you after the trim.

TheWall67
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 140

Posted 1/24/2008 9:35 PM (GMT -8)

RO, dude, you're sounding like some bag of nuts I cross to the other side of the road to avoid when walking down Chicago sidewalks. Hilde asked for thoughts on suspension and you go off about how you can outride modern day R1's on 20yr old bikes. No one ever said it wasn't about the rider. But equipment definitely make a difference. The 05 test said the suspension was as good as anything they tested- didn't say anything about Jesus like walking on water.

"large group of very fast street racers”, WTF is a “street racer”? Whose definition of fast? Squid fast maybe- fast with the mouth. "On a road I got to know too well I flew by good AFM amateur racers like they were in reverse". Maybe you're just a big talking squid that's to dumb to know not to push it to your limit on the streets. Certified AFM, CCS, etc. road racers know what they can do on a track and with a bike and don't need to prove themselves on public roads to gassy windbags. "Thanks for the thoughtful reply, more than I expected." You with your 17 posts should maybe hang around a little longer and see what the writers and this site are about before passing such premature baseless judgment.

Hey, watch this...

TheWall67
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 140

Posted 1/24/2008 9:55 PM (GMT -8)

Hilde44 said...
Anybody out there have a story about their custom suspension experience? How about on your street bikes? The amount of improvement on our CRF-X was so dramatic, I can't imagine that street bikes respond to suspension tuning as much as dirtbikes - or am I mistaken?

Anyway, back to the subject. I can't tell you yet but I'll let you know during this season my impression between the difference in stock and premium suspension. I have no doubt that suspension improvement (after riding skills) is the first major upgrade anyone should invest their dollars in. I've never heard anything but positive raving about the good quality properly tuned suspension does for bike handling-like you said "never go back" (that's what I'm scared of actually- I'll end up taking new bikes and immediately drop another grand or two on suspension). Then after suspension light weight quality wheels. Those should come before any type of power mods IMO. As far advantage being as big for street or dirt I think both benefit the same. When you tax out a road bike at full lean or speed over road course style bumps or under harsh braking, trail braking, acceleration you can wreak havoc on suspension.

Hey, watch this...

Hilde44
MotoUSA - Dirt Guy

Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 469

Posted 1/25/2008 8:59 AM (GMT -8)

Wall - Dude, some constructive comments, thanks! I'm super fresh to the sportbike world, so that kind of info is the stuff I'm still looking to experience myself. As for the dirt side of it, I know exactly how you feel about being afraid of getting hooked on suspension. Buying a bike is a big strain on my finances and I know that from now on I'll be putting all that additional dough into stick mods within the first few months. But, if you have good work done it is totally worth it. What's a few extra Gs on the 'ol Visa....

Wackman
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 7

Posted 6/17/2008 11:27 AM (GMT -8)

Hey Guys,

This is my first post on this forum. I found it by looking for some answers to the handling problems of my 06 crf450x and ran across this article. Turns out I live not too far (Portland) from the tuner in this article, Tom Watson. I think I'm going to take it to him.

I have an 01 yz250 2t and I loooooove it. It handles like a dream. When I got it I got way faster than before and I guess I just thought it was technology because I didn't do any set up or anything. It just worked great. Well I figured the same thing about upgrading to a bike more purpose built for the woods/desert which is mainly what I ride. So I bought the 450x and boy have I been disappointed. I went from being one of the fastest guys in my group to being THE slowest. I went for three years without a wreck on my yz and in the first ride the skittish 450x put me on my head three times and after that I was gun shy. Every turn I have to have a foot out because it tucks or plows so much. The handling is horrible. Even my dads 96 cr500 feels better and much more stable than my x.

I was about to throw in the towel and sell it, to just go back to riding my yz or maybe a new yz250 two stroke (lots of guys are saying 2t are just that much better in the handling department) when I found this article. I'd really like to talk to the guy who rode the bike before and after to get some more details on exactly what it was doing, how it felt both before and after. The fact that I found you AND it's the exact same bike AND in the exact same terrain AND with the exact same tuner is incredible.

I'm excited now. Tom says he can tune my bike to where I'll like it better than my yz.

If you can please write some more details about the handling characteristics and changes or if possible maybe I can call you and not spend all this time typing.

I really appreciate it.

Wack

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