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Kenny
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   Posted 9/10/2007 12:35 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It took a few extra days to dial this article in but we think you will dig the videos as much as the test. Check out our 2008 Buell 1125R - First Ride then let us know: Are you interested in this bike? Do you have any questiosn we did not provide answers to?


I like to think of Jesus like, with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

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freebird
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   Posted 9/10/2007 2:44 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kenny said...
Are you interested in this bike?


No.

I wish Buell would build a variety of small fun bikes like this customized 1965 Ducati Monza 250 shown below. I would love to buy a modern fuel-injected twin-cylinder 300cc bike that is lightweight, with a short wheelbase, and low seat height. Maybe with an clutchless thumb-shift option for city-riding too. I'm also perplexed that Buell couldn't build an engine in-house.

Post Edited (freebird) : 9/10/2007 10:48:24 PM GMT

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jon
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   Posted 9/10/2007 4:30 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
as usual, nice write up.  i'm not really into that buell's looks or the asking price but i think they are heading the right direction in terms of sportbike. 
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jboland
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   Posted 9/10/2007 4:36 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
freebird said...

 


No.

I wish Buell would build a variety of small fun bikes like this customized 1965 Ducati Monza 250 shown below. I would love to buy a modern fuel-injected twin-cylinder 300cc bike that is lightweight, with a short wheelbase, and low seat height. Maybe with an clutchless thumb-shift option for city-riding too. I'm also perplexed that Buell couldn't build an engine in-house.
Are you suggesting that an engine manufactor that produces powerplants for BMW's and Aprilla's isn't good enough for Buell?  Clearly it made more economic sense for Buell to develop an engine with Rotax than go through the extremely expensive and time consuming process of developing an engine in house.  Isn't that the whole reason Buell's been using reworked Sportster engines for so long?  As for a 300cc bike, those simply don't sell in the American market, and certainly not at any kind of decent profit margin.  American's have always gone for big engines, and I mean going all the way back to 1910's and 20's.  BTW, the Buell Blast meets your description almost to a tee (500cc instead of 300cc) so you can't say they don't build fun small bikes, though admittedly, the Blast is not nearly as pretty as that Ducati.
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masbuell
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   Posted 9/10/2007 6:54 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
YES! I love this bike. While I wish the whole thing was American made, that's seemingly not practical. Buell is definitely a great American story none-the-less. The 1125R seems like a great bike for the street with usable power where you want it. I like sport bikes as well as the next guy (present ride is a 1984 VFR1000F) but can certainly see where this v-twin could be a lot of fun. I plan to ride one and see if I want to get one as bad as I think I do. I wouldn't mind seeing Buell, or even Victory for that matter, make a bike reminiscent of the mid-80's Honda Acsot/VT500. Maybe in the 650/750 range.


If you ever, don't never, unless you will.

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Moto-Pat
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   Posted 9/11/2007 5:27 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sounds like a great bike I like to own but not with that look. It's just ugly in my opinon. What about a naked version next year?
And if your goal is to take on the Euro twins why would you build a bike that doesn't?

Post Edited (Moto-Pat) : 9/11/2007 2:08:55 PM GMT

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jboland
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   Posted 9/11/2007 5:32 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree that its ugly. A naked version would definitely be cool. But they'll have to figure something else out for the radiator because those bulging covers on the side will look even worse without a fairing.
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Desmolicious
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   Posted 9/11/2007 7:19 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Other tests report problems with the FI mapping. Kenny, did you notice any of that?
I think that it is great that Buell is making a bike like this from an engineering point of view, but I would never consider one cuz it's just plain FUGLY. Seriously, can anyone point out a current sportbike in production that is uglier than this? The closest I can think of is the white with pink flames Kawi ZX14.
Does anyone like the way this bike looks?
And yes, nice job with the review MO-USA.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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YellowDuck
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   Posted 9/11/2007 7:36 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
+1 on the writeup - good job, boys. -10% for handing in your assignment late though. Sorry.

I am reserving judgement on the looks. More than anything, it looks like a Buell - the major styling cues are there, and I usually find that when I see a Buell in person I am very taken with the overall cleanness of the design. I really need to see it in person.
Overall, I am VERY happy to see an American manufacturer attempt to make a bike like this. It is about time, and I wish them enormous success.

That mountain road (Naci-Fergi, probably?) looks like a good place to die. Very narrow, steep embankments, lots of sand creeping onto the asphalt - yuck. Not my thing at all. The wider bits with a painted centerline looked nice though.

I'll take exception with one thing in the write-up. I can't see any reason why finger followers would reduce valve float any more than direct cam actuation of the valves. The ability of the valve spring to close the valve is still the limiting factor (and not much of a limiting factor these days anyway - valve return is not usually what limits rpms in modern engines, at least not big displacement V-twins). Maybe you were getting confused with desmo valves, which also use cam-driven rockers (instead of springs) to *close* the valves, thus making valve float physically impossible? Anyway, what you wrote didn't make sense to me, from a technical standpoint.


Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre - Joe Klein

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GeoffG
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   Posted 9/11/2007 8:12 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
YellowDuck said...
I am reserving judgement on the looks. More than anything, it looks like a Buell - the major styling cues are there, and I usually find that when I see a Buell in person I am very taken with the overall cleanness of the design. I really need to see it in person.

Very well said! I have read a lot of negative comments on the 1125R on various forums, pretty much all directed at the appearance. It seems that, if a bike deviates one iota from the "norm" in terms of appearance, people want to trash it (same thing happened with the 999).

YD's right, it looks like a Buell--a Buell with radiators, that is! Ya want water cooling, ya gotta put the radiators somewhere! At least Buell isn't trying to hide them under the rear seat a la Benelli...
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TheWall67
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   Posted 9/11/2007 9:16 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I like most what they are not doing with this bike which is not try to make a 1098 or Millie (and I love those two bikes) but make a bike that offers what people love about high power vtwin sport bikes (torque, sound, power delivery) without some of the disadvantages (cost to buy, cost to maintain, brutal street ergos, gorgeous Italian style...er no not that one). I'll have to hold judgment on the look until I see it in person. Sounds like they made a high powered twin sport bike that makes a great street bike and fun and accomplished track bike (so you won't be winning races on it- you probably won't be winning races on any bike!). That mountain road looked trecherous.


Hey, watch this...

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Kenny
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   Posted 9/11/2007 11:49 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Desmo - Nope, my bikes (I rode the same one all day on the tsreet and one of three on the track) never seemed to have any fueling issues. But folks were pointing it out during the ride so it was happening to them.

Duck: Minus 10? Thank god you werent my English teacher, I would have never earned that C+ with that type of attitude! Ha ha. That road sure has all the ingredients for an untimely demise but it really is up to the rider. With the gravel, cliffs, etc... you have to be very observant. If you let your guard down its a long, long way to the abrupt end of the ride. As you could tell, I was taking it very, very easy. As far as the Finger Followers go - that is the Buell hype and my brief and hasty research confirmed that was the theory - like all theories though - it needs to be proven and I cannot provide that at this time so what do we do now? You can take it for what its worth or you'll have to read the stories from journos who barely seemed to relate the riding experience in the written word of their 'timely' reports - but hey, no one is perfect. Right? Coach? Put me in coach - I'm ready! Ooo. Ooo.

The Walls: You said it: We probably wont be winning races anyway so what is the difference? I think that a lot of riders would benefit from riding a bike that is more neutral and forgiving. This is a trait of Buell and it trickled down to the 1125R as well.

JB & Pat: It isn't the best looking bike ever made but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and as that linguistic lyricist said so eloquently so many years ago:
"...I seen evry blue eyed floozy on the way,
But their beauty and their style,
Went kind of smooth after a while,
Take me to them dirty ladies every time..." Erik has offered us a willing, no-strings attached, partner in the game we all love to play. So don't knock it till ya try it! You know I am working the crowd here right? Bueller?..?


I like to think of Jesus like, with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

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louemc
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   Posted 9/11/2007 12:06 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kenny said...
 That road sure has all the ingredients for an untimely demise but it really is up to the rider. With the gravel, cliffs, etc... you have to be very observant. If you let your guard down its a long, long way to the abrupt end of the ride.
 
 
That road was my play ground, before moving to my present play ground (which is a bigger hard rock) play ground. Hope it was good for you :-)
 
Another favorite (close to where you were), was Carmel Valley Rd.  I have a picture Of Eric Buell there. smilewinkgrin


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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TheWall67
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   Posted 9/11/2007 2:07 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kenny said...

The Walls: You said it: We probably wont be winning races anyway so what is the difference? I think that a lot of riders would benefit from riding a bike that is more neutral and forgiving. This is a trait of Buell and it trickled down to the 1125R as well.
Hey Kenny.  That wasn't a reference or insult to you or the staff.  I was jokingly referring to the sector of the motorcycle public that judges a bikes ability and purchases it based on the spec sheet (i.e. as if a spec sheet determines race wins) and not on riding it and the fun factor.  You couldn't be more spot on w/your statment that a lot of riders would benefit from a more neutral and forgiving bike.  I see it at the track all the time.  Guys riding 1000cc repli's that are working so hard to control the bike and not spit themself off that they lose time on their laps.  A guy I met last weekend at an SBTT event told me he dropped three seconds instantly (at a track where a 1:19 is respectable and top riders do 1:11's) when he went from a '06 GSX/R-1000 to a 1995 Honda NSR250 (bored out to 300cc).


Hey, watch this...

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Desmolicious
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   Posted 9/11/2007 2:08 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Just rode Carmel Valley Road over the Labour Day weekend. Now that's a road that rewards properly set up high quality suspension! Naci Fergi is excellent on the inland side (roads through Fort Hunter Liggett etc), the coast side demands a little more prudence..


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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louemc
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   Posted 9/11/2007 2:22 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This bike will be more interesting to see, how it is received (after some time of ownership) than any bike I can think of. The intro and details of design, seem to get disclaimers of "this is correct for a certain type rider", "we aren't entering competition with anyone else", so it has to be evaluated by those yet to be owners, using the bike, in a "don't compare it to the others" way.
I'm confident that there will be a later design, that is different from this design, but why a tester isn't bitching in no uncertain terms about what will be changed later, and is bitch material now, escapes me.
This heat coming off the rear cylinder exhaust pipe and bothering the right leg, doesn't that heat go past the rear shock to get to the riders leg? Anyone feel the rear shock and its reservoir to see how hot it gets?
Will Eric Buell get a divine revelation that Steering dampers (only the best need apply) exist for a good reason, and he should get with it, and have it on stock? Even for the "Buellite" that doesn't think they need one? (yet)
Will the sales tank because of the humoungus air scoops, and, a redesign is called for? Inquiring minds want to know :-)


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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gagster
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   Posted 9/11/2007 2:28 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I've been considering buying the Firebolt 12R because I like the sportster engine's sound and simplicity.  Also, they've dropped the price about $2000 this year on it.  But as far as the new 1125R goes, yes, it's distinctive looking, but I like the real world ergos and the easy maintenance.  I would probably buy this one over one of the repli-racers.  The real cost of ownership of a bike, in my experience, is the tires.  If you ride very much, those sticky sport tires will keep you very broke.

The Japanese manufacturers are making their machines too narrowly focused for my tastes.  I hate a machine that is uncomfortable to ride on the street.  I wouldn't have one of those, no matter what the performance is.   

This was a very good write up on the 1125R.  Sometimes it's better to be little late on an assignment and get the full story on the machine.smile   Question:  How does this bike sound compared to the Firebolt?  I imagine the liquid cooling and the 72 degree vee would make it sound different--say like the difference between the V-Rod and the regular Harleys.

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bigsci
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   Posted 9/11/2007 3:08 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice job on the write up. But I'm not so sure why you say that with it's vibrations there's no mistaking for an American Twin, when it has nothing to do with an American Twin (thank heavens). Austro-Canadian Rotax is on track to push Honda off the pedestal as masters of internal combustion, and I wish them well. Not that I don't love my RC51 but I do like an underdog.

The price is right and even the styling is ok by me since I like to have my form follow my function. But I also ride a Beemer, so there ya go. The R1100S was called one of the ugliest bikes made when it was new, but now I get nothing but compliments. I bet the Buell will be sort of the same.

I can't wait to read your shoot out. I hope you guys can manage to be comprehensive and throw the Mille and R1200S in the mix along with the mandatory 1098. I'd love it even more if you could throw in an RC51 and a TLR so us salarymen have a frame of reference.
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Kenny
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   Posted 9/11/2007 3:25 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Wall: I didn't think you were picking on anyone. I was agreeing or pointing out tha the bike is going to be good for many people. We're on the same page baby, i feel the love.

Lou. Man, where do i start with you though? Sheesh. Go to your room. Actually, you can stay. I need to know exactly what you are trying to pry outta my brain here. Am I the tester or are you referring to some random rider at some point in the future that may be testing this thing? I guess I am the 'tester' so - yes, the heat sucks and that heat definitely passes by the shock and res so it (the remote res) will get warmed up and it was hot to the touch. Keep in mind that a most V-Twin designs, even as modern as the 1098, blow big heat by the rear shock so I am not sure what to say or where you want to go with this one. You can imply that it will heat the fluid but we rode the crap out of this thing and unless they purposely chose the 30 minute sessions to keep the shock frmo going off I didnt feel it make any change to the handling - but I am not Jeremy McWiliams either (But I can ride a bike and I love Laguna so believ me I was giving it hell) I agree, it cant be good in theory but when I look over other bikes' designs I really dont see any way aorund it. Heat is heat and any Twin rear cylinder header is gonna emit heat that hits the rear shock in some way, shape or form. Steering damper: I think it should have one (I said that in the test, right?) but it doesnt and its not the first or last bike that will not come equipped with one from the factory either. I don't see the radiator pods going anywhere. That is part of the bike's identity now and Buell is proud of its functionality. It is a crash protector and its not as heinous as it looks...really...quit laughing you jerk I am being serious...Lou...get back here...Lou, I'm counting to three...oonnneeee....twoooo....Lou? Where did he go? Fine, be that way. I don't predict the design changing dramatically until the next redesign! Hah.

Gagster: As far as I see here in the Buell PR, the Firebolt is in fact cheaper by an amazing $500 bucks over last year, reducing the MSRP to $9995 - but not two grand baby! That's still pretty good for that beast I think and Buell deserves props for getting cheaper while others continue to stick it to the public - vaseline not included. There is not a way to describe the Helicon exhaust sound too much but it is a Buell Twin. Plus it shakes in the rame still a bit so its like a high-performance Firebolt for the lack of a better description. Lou, dang it. Knock it off....


I like to think of Jesus like, with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

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masbuell
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   Posted 9/11/2007 6:41 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Desmo - I like this bike. I like the looks. I like the engineering. I like the story. There are those who think the Duc Monsters look like they crashed into the Home Depot plumbing department to concoct their funky frame. Some of the BMW's are definitely only loved by their "mothers" and the V-Max and the new BK all have their funkiness. I like all of the above. They are all cool for an important reason IMO, they are freekin different! Not that I mind the cookie cutter repli-racers, or the cruisers, but different can definitely be good.


If you ever, don't never, unless you will.

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louemc
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   Posted 9/12/2007 11:28 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kenny said... Lou, dang it. Knock it off....

 
OK I'll say something nice ;-) , it comes with the best tires, The Pirelli Diablo Corsa III's are at this time, for the use this bike will be seeing, the best tire out there.   Now ya feel the Love? smilewinkgrin


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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GAJ
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   Posted 9/12/2007 11:37 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm beginning to think that all future tests need to have actual heat readings as the "too much heat on my ass or legs" is worrisome. I'd not buy this bike or the Triumph 675, both worthy bikes in many many regards, for this reason alone.

Who the hell needs to be cooked while riding a street bike at a street pace during the "best" riding months??

Perhaps a temperature reading where the "average" calf would be and where the "average" ass would be is in order.
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1KPerDay
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   Posted 9/12/2007 12:32 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I rode the new buell for 4 track sessions at miller last week. We were the first non-journalists to get to ride them.



It




ROCKS.
cool 





A LOT of people were there, from all walks of moto-life. All were very impressed. That bike is huge fun to ride. Huge power, torque everywhere, stellar chassis, stellar brakes, awesome, neutral, stable handling from vertical to leaned waaaaaaay over. Trail braking no problem. Clutchless shifting no problem. Ergos very reasonable. Slipper clutch RULES. Sounds great, looks sinister and cool in person.


Overall the best bike I've ever ridden.    yeah
2 of the bikes I rode had no fueling problems; one had a stumble at about 8500, but only if you held it there. It also felt like it was starting to run out of fuel on my last lap at about 10K, but we checked and it was fine. They're 'prototype' bikes and they say the fueling niggles will be worked out before full production. Off idle was great, pulled like a train from about 2K to redline at 10.5K. Minor drop in power at about 10K. I bumped the rev limiter a couple of times in fast corners but I was a gear or 2 low... I rode the first session behind one of the buell guys and he was HAULING. I kept the revs up and was riding at about 100% of my comfort level/ability. The next session we had a different leader and he took better lines. I decided to stay a gear or 2 higher and it didn't make any difference... the laps were at least as quick but I didn't feel harried. The engine is stellar; no driveline lash at all (which is amazing, particularly after being used to big ZX-11 based Kawis with a bit of lash and tons of power right off idle). The buell accellerated at least as hard if not harder than my ZZR (which pulls very strongly) due to it being at least 150 lbs lighter, if not 200. I'm guessing wet weight is in the 420lb range. Diablo Corsa III tires stuck like glue and I felt absolutely confident leaning way over.

Mid-corner corrections weren't a problem, and even when I got sloppy with the throttle mid-corner it just gave one wiggle and settled down.

I actually almost highsided early on before I'd learned the east half of the track adequately (I'd only ridden the west half before and at the buell day we ran the full track, which is serious fun). I came out of a fastish left hander and the road sort of goes away grade-wise there and I got out onto the rumble strip... the rear slid a bit and the bike gave one good shake (re-tearing my shoulder muscles in the process) but settled right down. I was very surprised to find such a short bike was so stable and forgiving of stupidity.

The pegs are high but not so high that you say 'holy crap' when mounting the bike, and if anything they're too far forward for me... an inch or so rearward would fit me better but would hurt your knees. The bars look forward but the seat/bar distance is short so it's actually pretty comfortable. At full speed on the long straight I couldn't get behind the windscreen fully (I'm 6'3" with a long torso) but it was only the mid/top of my helmet getting ripped by the wind. If I could have slid back a couple more inches in the seat I could have gotten behind the windscreen but I was as far back as I could go.

Brakes are really 1 or 2 finger stoppers, and the thing just STOPS. One guy complained about funky braking but he was the only one; I suspect that disc had been abused by the motojournalists and was warped or something. The bikes didn't get a break and were run very hard for about 8 straight hours... no issues I was aware of.

I was wearing thin Darien pants and could feel some heat through the frame rails but nothing close to painful... it's similar to the heat through the rails on my ZZR; perhaps a bit warmer. I noted NO radiator or exhaust heat. They really routed that air well.

It sounds vaguely rattly and fluttery at idle, kind of ducati-ish, but it really sounds meaty and good when you're on it or listening to others pass at speed.

Since we were doing roughly 20-minute sessions it's kind of difficult to discuss street ergos; however when sitting on the 675 I felt almost immediately that this bike was not for me; the buell feels very plush in comparison.

A couple of times the 1125 groups would catch up to coaches or buell riders on XB12s... I'd try to get past them after a corner but those bikes have serious squirt out of low to mid-speed corners, at least as much as the 1125. However, once speeds get above 100 or so (I'm guessing) the 1200s seemed to hit a wall while the 1125s just keep ripping all the way down the straight. There's really no comparison.

I really wanted to ride the entire fleet of Buells (last spring they had all their models available) but they decided to just bring 1125s, and I'm not disappointed in that regard. The bike is seriously quick and handles unbelievably well. I want one.

I think they'll sell a lot of them, particularly to people who attend these buell trackday demos. If there's one close to you, or not so close.... DO IT.
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Desmolicious
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   Posted 9/12/2007 1:12 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You wore thin nylon Darien pants on a race track??? Dood.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Kenny
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   Posted 9/12/2007 3:27 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
1K - It sounds like you had a good time at the track. I've never been to Miller but I have  afeelingthe bike would be well suited for that layout. I admit that from some angles the 1125R actually looks really cool - but from others it doesn't so go figure - I guess its up to you if you dig it or not huh? Oh... Nice pants.


"I got a huntin' dog named 'Lucky'. He's has one eye, and no nuts."

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