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Harley1
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   Posted 9/17/2007 8:16 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We do our best impersonation of Lewis & Clark over the mountains and gorges of Oregon with four of the hottest adventour tourers around to discover for ourselves which one is best suited for the long haul. Our contenders in the 2007 Adventure Touring Comparo II are the '07 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000, the '07 Triumph Tiger 1050, the '07 Ducati Multistrada and the '07 BMW R1200GS.
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Holmes
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   Posted 9/17/2007 8:54 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice write-up guys. No real surprises in the final 'scoring' (except maybe that the DL1000 was ranked ahead of the Ducati).


2006 Kawasaki Z750S
2006 Suzuki V-Strom 650
1976 Yamaha XS650
1973 Honda CB750

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louemc
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   Posted 9/17/2007 11:53 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't get it? Was there anyplace you got off the pavement? (other than getting into the parking area for the Washougal MX race), anyway a Gold wing tricycle could do the same route, so where is the "adventure" bike getting any test? Did you find any places to get out of sight, and camp for the night, or was every night on a bed with sheets, and a hot shower?


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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Ted
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   Posted 9/17/2007 12:01 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Excellent review.  I would have liked to see more single lane and dirt roads.  And as Suzuki seems to have dropped the DL1000 for 2008, I would have preferred to see how the DL650 compares.

An alternative to consider for next year would be comparing these bikes with some common farkles.  I haven't ruled out a DL650 as my next bike.  I'd love to know how it would compare against the competition with gold valves and perhaps another common upgrade.

Love the site and thanks for the excellent reports.

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flickmeister
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   Posted 9/17/2007 12:47 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nice job guys. I especially liked the added narrative of the videos. You stated the DL1000 makes the best starter adventure bike. I would think the DL650 would fill that bill even better. Most motojournos have rated the 650 better than the 1000, especially in the handling department. You also said you broke the performance aspects of the bikes into ten categories. Could you please publish those categories and how the bikes ranked in each of them?? That seemed like a glaring omission to me. Also, I missed your "For My Money" column, any chance you could post that? I know it sounds like I'm being pretty critical, but you did have a wealth of good information, but if you could add the above, it would make it damn near perfect. Thanx. Cheers, Jack
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Holmes
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   Posted 9/17/2007 1:42 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
I don't get it? Was there anyplace you got off the pavement? (other than getting into the parking area for the Washougal MX race), anyway a Gold wing tricycle could do the same route, so where is the "adventure" bike getting any test? Did you find any places to get out of sight, and camp for the night, or was every night on a bed with sheets, and a hot shower?
Well, they did state at the beginning of the article that:
 
"It seems to us that the vast majority of people who will buy these machines don't intend to really use them for off-highway purposes anyway. For that reason we opted to utilize only paved surfaces for evaluation in this test."
 
I wonder if part of the reasoning here was simply not wanting to trash these loaner bikes? Didn't they have a couple of drops during last years test while they were playing in the dirt? tongue
 
Still, I'll agree with Lou here - it would have been nice to include a *little* dirt action in this test. IMHO part of what defines the 'adventure touring' class of bikes is being able to enjoy mild dirt roads and have more options for exploring when the pavement ends. My wife is ready to sell her Z750S for something a little more comfy on dirt roads after getting bounced around on some fire roads on our last road trip.
 
Also, how about a 'budget' adventure touring test this coming year that includes the new KLR650, DL650, Versys and an F650GS? Maybe do a long weekend trip in Oregon where you spend some time on fire roads, maybe loaded up for an overnight camping trip.


2006 Kawasaki Z750S
2006 Suzuki V-Strom 650
1976 Yamaha XS650
1973 Honda CB750

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Kenny
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   Posted 9/17/2007 2:42 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
As far as Off Road testing goes: Only KTM and BMW were 'happy' with our decision to put the bikes on the dirt in '06 and that played a part in the decision to omit my personal favorite angle of the Adventure bikes out of the test. Sorry but we cant always be perfect. JC is gone testing the Beta 450 MXer and then heaidng to MX des Nations in the same trip and he has all the notes so the score sheets wont make it in. The lack of a For My Money will get him in hot water when he returns though.

Holmes: The 650 Dual Sport comparison is underway as you read this. New guy Adam Waheed is doing it in So Cal but the only bikes we could get when everything started to fall into place were the KLR650, BMW xCountry and XR650L. Suzuki bailed on us at the last second, the Versys is not available, and this is the last year of the F650GS. Otherwise, that is the plan. Two new bikes versus the grandaddy.


"I got a huntin' dog named 'Lucky'. He's has one eye, and no nuts."

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Holmes
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   Posted 9/17/2007 3:02 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Kenny said...
As far as Off Road testing goes: Only KTM and BMW were 'happy' with our decision to put the bikes on the dirt in '06 and that played a part in the decision to omit my personal favorite angle of the Adventure bikes out of the test. Sorry but we cant always be perfect. JC is gone testing the Beta 450 MXer and then heaidng to MX des Nations in the same trip and he has all the notes so the score sheets wont make it in. The lack of a For My Money will get him in hot water when he returns though.

Holmes: The 650 Dual Sport comparison is underway as you read this. New guy Adam Waheed is doing it in So Cal but the only bikes we could get when everything started to fall into place were the KLR650, BMW xCountry and XR650L. Suzuki bailed on us at the last second, the Versys is not available, and this is the last year of the F650GS. Otherwise, that is the plan. Two new bikes versus the grandaddy.

Kenny - thanks for the full disclosure about the lack of dirt riding in this years test. I kinda figured you guys might be getting some heat from 'The Man'.
 
The 650 dual sport comparo sounds interesting. Is this going to include some touring as part of the test, or mostly just focusing on the bikes dual sport capabilities as the title implies? And yeah, I had heard that the F650GS is on it's way out, but hopefully that means it is going to be replaced with an F800GS (which I think will rock).


2006 Kawasaki Z750S
2006 Suzuki V-Strom 650
1976 Yamaha XS650
1973 Honda CB750

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Desmolicious
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   Posted 9/17/2007 3:12 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Such a bummer the KTM wasn't included, now that it has a bigger motor with FI, lower seat height and a much better seat. Plus it has the most excellent hard luggage.
Still, great test and it makes me want to tour Oregon (never been there).
Thanks.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Ted
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   Posted 9/17/2007 5:57 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I can understand the lack of dirt.  However, after re-reading the report, I'd love to see a higher percentage of marginal pavement.  One lane and other assorted back roads rather than a LONG ride up I-5.
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Hoover
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   Posted 9/17/2007 6:30 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Well, as usual the test only includes brand new bikes. When you factor in the insane costs of BMW maintenance and the continuous problems with rear hubs and canbus issues the BMW ends up at the bottom of the pack. It's [orcine weight doesn't help much either nor its high center of gravity. I'll take an R1200R any day over the GS.
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ianisme
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   Posted 9/18/2007 6:41 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That was a terrific article Kenny; your boys done good. As for me, I would save myself a whole bunch of money and buy the Tiger. Not only is it a lot cheaper and almost as good, it looks a hell of a lot better than the Beemer.


At a stroke, the government solved the fuel crisis and the problem of a rapidly ageing population.
 
 

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Moto-Pat
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   Posted 9/18/2007 7:17 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think the issues is these are not AT bikes maybe with the exception of the BMW. They are ST bikes with a little extra ground clearance which I don't get. Give me one or the other.
Orgeon sounds nice but I wouldn't be writting about it so much or you will be taken over by Cal's like here in Austin. Austin is a terrible place to live by the way. Really!

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Holmes
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   Posted 9/18/2007 7:45 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Moto-Pat: I think you have to differentiate between 'adventure touring' and 'dual-sport'. AT to me means a fairly good size bike that can tour long distances in relative comfort and has the option for some mild off-pavement riding without too much drama. I think all the bikes in this comparo fit that moniker (some better than others).


2006 Kawasaki Z750S
2006 Suzuki V-Strom 650
1976 Yamaha XS650
1973 Honda CB750

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BMW-K
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   Posted 9/18/2007 10:13 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
FYI, your DRY weight on the BMW is incorrect.

BMW Quote 495# WET, with a full tank of gas.

The dry weight of an R12GS is 437#.

Scroll to the bottom: http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-motorcycles/bmw-r1200-gs.htm
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Moto-Pat
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   Posted 9/18/2007 10:16 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Holmes: Good point. Guess I hate to see the mid-sizes ST's disappear as they are and seemed to be replaced by nice bikes with 33 plus inch seat heights that isn't really necessary. My 29 inch legs can ride them but it can be a pain in a urban setting. So I wouldn't buy one. There still plenty of bikes I think are comfy so no problems.


 

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Holmes
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   Posted 9/18/2007 10:28 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
MP: I agree with you there - seems like the middle-weight ST bikes are a dying breed in the states. My wife and I both like our Z750S, and it's definitely more fun at higher speeds on smooth roads. But the 'strom has a big edge once you get to the rough stuff, which is a definite plus in our neck of the woods (lots of federal lands and fire roads to explore). If I was back around Austin I'd probably care less about off-road ability and more about sporty higher speed handling (I miss the hill country).


2006 Kawasaki Z750S
2006 Suzuki V-Strom 650
1976 Yamaha XS650
1973 Honda CB750

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gsimmons
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   Posted 9/18/2007 10:35 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Timely review, but I wish you had waited a couple months and included the 2008 Ulysses which has been shipping for a month now as well as the KTM 990 Adventure (the only bike in the class really comfy off-road). I found myself taking my Wee Strom places it wasn't designed to go, so I bought a DRZ400S for those rides and am shopping for a liter-sized AT bike (which is nothing more than a long-legged sport-touring standard it seems).

Disappointed at the lack of unpaved road coverage. These bikes are made for gnarly, beat-up back roads and reasonably maintained dirt roads. There's not much "adventure" in the test. Still, the comparisons are helpful for their street manners.

Did you actually weigh the bikes yourself ready-to-ride minus fuel, or weigh them with full tanks and subtract the weight of the gas?

Always enjoy MCUSA shootouts, even with the niggles...
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T.Jed
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   Posted 9/18/2007 11:54 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
couple points - first, it'd been nice to have a paragraph about an easy dirt ride, thou I don't know what diff. would show up, except tires. 500 lbs + sounds like a lot more than I'd want to have sliding around . . .
2 nd - LOUSY transmissions - this is 2007 - every 'cycle trans should be ' snick, snick'. IF they have to add 5 lbs, put a synchro on first gear, so be it. It should be 100% to get Neutral. every time.
3 rd - Hope Tri comes out with 675 ' cub' - with say 2" shorter W'base, 2" lower, same tank, high qual. suspension. Not - dumbed down.
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Dualsportz
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   Posted 9/18/2007 1:29 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Get a grip, guys--where's the adventure in a street ride? You let me down by not showing the folks that own these bikes what they're missing by not taking them into the rough. Or at least a few graded dirt/gravel roads. Someone's hardpack driveway, maybe?

I was also looking for the scorecard...did I miss a link or was there no nicely formatted tabular display of the relative merits of these bikes?

I commend the effort in organizing the ride, but wish the article had been as tight and polished as the bikes.
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gagster
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   Posted 9/18/2007 2:26 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I would have liked to see how the Ulysses stacks up against the others, since they've made significant improvements on it for '08.  I rode an '07 and I didn't like the seat height and the handlebar lock, but it was so much fun to pull wheelies on and surprisingly comfortable. 

The upcoming 650 comparo will be interesting.  I hope you aren't planning to go long distance on the 650L.  I doubt anyone could last over an hour or two on the freeway on that one (you'll be out of gas by then anyway).  It's not really much of a dirt bike either.  My experience has been that it'll do some of both, but you'll be disappointed on either type of ride unless you casually meander on fire roads.  It doesn't help that it's about 2 decades outdated. 

Will you include the KTM 525 EXC?  It's expensive but street legal and it might really be a decent dirt bike.  It might even be livable on the street.

 

Nobody builds a true adventure tourer.

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louemc
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   Posted 9/18/2007 4:30 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Holmes said...
louemc said...
I don't get it? Was there anyplace you got off the pavement? (other than getting into the parking area for the Washougal MX race), anyway a Gold wing tricycle could do the same route, so where is the "adventure" bike getting any test? Did you find any places to get out of sight, and camp for the night, or was every night on a bed with sheets, and a hot shower?
Well, they did state at the beginning of the article that:
 
"It seems to us that the vast majority of people who will buy these machines don't intend to really use them for off-highway purposes anyway. For that reason we opted to utilize only paved surfaces for evaluation in this test."
 
I wonder if part of the reasoning here was simply not wanting to trash these loaner bikes? Didn't they have a couple of drops during last years test while they were playing in the dirt? tongue
 
Still, I'll agree with Lou here - it would have been nice to include a *little* dirt action in this test. IMHO part of what defines the 'adventure touring' class of bikes is being able to enjoy mild dirt roads and have more options for exploring when the pavement ends. My wife is ready to sell her Z750S for something a little more comfy on dirt roads after getting bounced around on some fire roads on our last road trip.
 
Also, how about a 'budget' adventure touring test this coming year that includes the new KLR650, DL650, Versys and an F650GS? Maybe do a long weekend trip in Oregon where you spend some time on fire roads, maybe loaded up for an overnight camping trip.

 
Who knows what the vast majority of people do with their bikes?  I don't.  But, It strikes me as make up something, state it like it's a fact, and sell that as a reality (even though the base is made of thin air).  If a person buys an adventure bike, I would guess they want a bike that will do a variety of things, might be an adventure during the yearly vacation, and, commute to work, alot, and have some added freedom on routes of a day ride on weekends.
If the testers can't ride a bike without crashing it, it just means they can't ride a bike very well.
Oregon is laced with very poor condition roads, fire breaks, two tracks, etc, from Logging, mining, ranching, Forest service and BLM, and four wheel drive recreation use/action.  These roads go along streams, and lakes, and volcanoes, ravines, and gorges.  Some in the high desert wander through Juniper forests.  These routes are very manageable on an adventure bike, actually show the features of the adventure bike, how the engine is up to the job, and the suspension.
Sure the charge won't be pure dirt bike, with full knobs, but, how the bike hooks up is found immediately, and ridden accordingly. Totally safe.
I'm not buying the story, of a reason to stay on the pavement, with these bikes.
 
Adventure may be defined in different ways, maybe it's an adventure to wonder what the answer will be when they ask a motel if it has internet service?


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

Post Edited (louemc) : 9/19/2007 12:40:51 AM GMT

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Po-zer
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   Posted 9/18/2007 7:45 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

After reading the '06 test report, and intending to buy my first bike in 20 years, I went out and test rode all of the bikes tested except the Caponord. Then I re-read the article again, twice. Then, having ruled out only the Uly, I test rode the bikes I likes a second time. They are ALL good bikes and I had a hard time deciding. I ended up riding the BMW, KTM, and Duc 3 times each and the Suzi twice. I ended up with the GS, but wish it was as flickable as the Multistrada.

Tall ST? Yeah, more or less. But the extra suspension travel really helps on rough roads. And at speed on rough roads the GS kept it's composure the best by far with the Suzi being dead last. The Duc (without ohlins) could take the bumps, or avoid them at the last second better than the rest, but no long hual comfort. The KTM was like a dirt bike in the twisties, but surprisingly planted on the highway.

And I have absolutely no idea what people are complaining about concerning the BM transmission??? It don't care if I use the clutch or not. The Duc and KTM might have been marginally better....or not.

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hipsabad
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   Posted 9/18/2007 8:42 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm with Lou on this one. And with Hoover on the superiority of the R1200R over the GS for this kind of riding. As for the cost/value equation, BMW rear seal and transmission seal failures and are becoming legendary. As is BMW's denial of the problem. See advrider.com for more on this.

Where was the KTM 990 Adventure?
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Hilde44
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   Posted 9/18/2007 10:18 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Ok, this little mob mentality certainly has swelled in the few days I've been away. For those of you who offered props, thanks, and for the rest of you haters, check it out...

 

The Dirt Issue - The fact that we did have some spills last year, including one by our best dirt rider on the best off-roader of the bunch, KTM, you can bet your digital butts we were leery of tanking any of these beasts again. Speaking of tanks, T.Jed makes a good point (aside from his awesome 675 Cub idea), 500 pounds is a lot to have sliding around, and it seems like that should make a smidgeon of sense to anyone who has ever thrown a leg over two wheels. Did we take heat from "The Man," hell yeah we did, but you know what, Holmes, I catch heat for banged up motocrossers and full-blown enduros so what do you expect with a Multistrada s-model? We had four MotoUSA Editors involved at some point in the discussion about how these bikes would be ridden and what they can/cannot do. So, Dualsportz, as it turns out we do have a grip, and fairly good one in our opinion.

 

Motorcycle Terminology 101 - There's a reason we called this the Adventure Touring test and not the Dual-sport Shootout. I see a lot 650-this and 650-that. Take some Xanax and chill out because that test is coming. Then you can all bitch about how a lack of wind protection on 2-of-3 machines is the greatest calamity in motojournalism history.

 

BMW-K - FYI, our numbers are correct, 437 pounds for the GS is preposterous. We weigh all the machines topped off and then subtract the weight of the fuel. The same method proved that a HP2 weighs 420.

 

Lou - You piss in my cheerios on every article I write, but it's nice to know you're still reading...

 

Flickmeister - You're right about the omissions, I didn't feel the scorecards were that critical as an addendum, but I misjudged them. The popular For My Money should have been included. I have that information and it will be posted as soon as I have four spare minutes, my apologies.

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