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bmadson
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   Posted 3/10/2008 1:48 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Named in honor of a 4000-mile trek by Giuseppe Guzzi in 1928, the Moto Guzzi Norge 1200 piles on the miles with Twin power. Check out MotorcycleUSA's 2008 Moto Guzzi Norge - Bike Test.
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GAJ
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   Posted 3/10/2008 4:43 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Lots of "character" for 15 grand, and "iffy" fueling, bag operation, braking and handling to boot.

No thx.

But it IS absolutely gorgeous!
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Desmolicious
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   Posted 3/10/2008 5:19 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
You said you need an aircooled competitor to compare it against. How about the BMW R12RT?
Ah, let's be honest, it would get waxed. The Beemer has great brakes, great suspension, makes 30 more hp and is smoother to boot.
The Goose looks cooked.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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GeoffG
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   Posted 3/10/2008 5:31 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for the review, guys. I'm a bit disappointed--I quite like the Norge, from what I've seen of it, and I'm disappointed about the chassis and handling issues (lack of power doesn't bother me so much--I understand it's an air-cooled twin...)

But, that said, does the 08 Norge get the new 4-valve heads that I believe Guzzi is putting on the Griso for 08? Did the Norge you test have 2-valve or 4-valve heads? Just curious...
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Desmolicious
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   Posted 3/10/2008 5:34 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It had to be the 2 valver, the 4 valve Griso in UK tests puts out around 100 rwhp. This thing put out 70 hp, on a 600+ lb bike = slug. So what we have is a vibey,slow, poor handling slug. But it's pretty.
Hey, did you guys try and check the oil? Have they fixed that debacle yet?


Børk! Børk! Børk!

Post Edited (Desmolicious) : 3/11/2008 1:37:58 AM GMT

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jon
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   Posted 3/10/2008 5:51 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

nice write up,

at least the fugly engine design is some what covered w/ plastics.  for the asking price, i'm not interested in it all...the msrp should not be more than 10k imo. 

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GeoffG
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   Posted 3/10/2008 5:56 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Desmolicious said...
Hey, did you guys try and check the oil? Have they fixed that debacle yet?

Yeah, I heard about that, too. Guess it's that Italian thing--style over convenience or comfort.
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Desmolicious
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   Posted 3/11/2008 7:48 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
jon said...
nice write up,

at least the fugly engine design is some what covered w/ plastics.


First time I ever heard of the beautiful air cooled v-twin design called ugly!
I'm curious, what to you is a nice looking engine design?


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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GeoffG
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   Posted 3/11/2008 8:22 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Desmo--jon owns a B-King AFAIK.
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jon
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   Posted 3/11/2008 10:48 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Desmolicious said...
jon said...
nice write up,

at least the fugly engine design is some what covered w/ plastics.


First time I ever heard of the beautiful air cooled v-twin design called ugly!
I'm curious, what to you is a nice looking engine design?

the L-twin in duc and V-twin, V-4 in hondas, yamaha, buell, hd, etc.,  look wayyyyy better to me.  the guzzi with the cylinders sticking out to the sides is as ugly as beemer's side sticking out engines. 
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YellowDuck
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   Posted 3/11/2008 11:05 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Can't agree with that. I LOVE the look of those massive finned jugs sticking out of the BMW R bikes.

Anyway, this article could have been shortened substantially. Something like "This bike is pretty, but completely sucks in every other way. Except the heated grips - we liked those okay. The End."

Really, I hve never seen you guys struggle so hard to find even one complimentary thing to say about a bike. This thing must really stink.


Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre - Joe Klein

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Desmolicious
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   Posted 3/11/2008 11:34 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Apparently the suspension is also lacking, from comments of people that I know that have ridden it. Too soft, not enough damping.
As far as Jon's comments, they're valid in as much that is how he feels. Fair enough.
As far as Moto Guzzi, IMO they could be doing really well in the US but it seems that they just are self defeating. A nice looking but over weight, waaay underpowered ST for $15K? The Cali Vintage for $15K? Ducati has a similar bike (in the idea of a retro classic model) in the SportClassic GT for $10K. Ok, the Goose has hard bags and a shield but that's it. The Duc has way superior motor/handling package, for 50% less cost. Guzzi really needs to come to grips with reality with their pricing. That, and almost non existant dealer coverage spells for a tough time, no matter how good the product.
I really like the Griso, but won't be buying one until the 8V motor that the rest of the world gets lands in it, and Guzzi looks like it actually cares about the US market with some dealer and customer support.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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bmadson
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   Posted 3/11/2008 1:38 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's not a bad bike YellowDuck, but it really suffered from being tested alongside the bikes in our SST because we couldnt help but compare it in a lot of ways. The warped rotor also had a big effect in our overall opinion. It's not fair really, but we have to be honest in our evaluation.

I'm heading out to test the new Buell XB12XT soon, which might be a good bike to test against the Norge in the future. Either way the Moto Guzzi really deserves another shot and we'd love to test it against something comparable.

Post Edited (bmadson) : 3/11/2008 9:41:06 PM GMT

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Jay Mack
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   Posted 3/12/2008 9:07 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

If you owned one, and I don't, but if you did you would find the nit picking issues would recede into the distance and you would enjoy the bike immensely. You don't like the suspension, it doesn't make as much power as an FJR, the topcase is fiddly - at least it has a topcase, that's more than a lot of 'touring' bikes offer - so what? It isn't a race bike and it is a beautiful, unique machine.

Who rides a bike racing after or trying to keep up with their friends or testing the limits of the suspension in the corners? They don't for long. It isn't a significant percentage of motorcycle riding. Me, I just trundle along and look at the scenery and try not to get a ticket or killed. You would ride the bike accordingly and you handle it the way it needs to be handled. You'd enjoy the bike, its character and looks and you would enjoy the ownership experience with Guzzisti.  There's nothing wrong with the bike. It's a great Moto Guzzi. It's a style and a heritage and it isn't Japanese. Can't it be different in any way from the statistically prescribed norm? It's a Moto Guzzi.

By the way, isn't it a lot lighter weight than the Concours 14000 or the FJR? Doesn't it get some credit for keeping the weight down? I'll hang up and take my answer off the air.


 

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Desmolicious
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   Posted 3/12/2008 9:42 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Why make any bike with decent brakes, decent fueling.decent power and decent handling then?
Just because it's not Japanese is no excuse for mediocrity. Triumph, BMW, KTM, Ducati, MV Agusta don't seem to think so. But it is ok for Moto Guzzi to be mediocre?
Guzzi has shown that they can do it right, the Griso with the 8V motor is apparently an outstanding bike. It is meant to handle really well, has great brakes, nice suspension, a powerful motor and it looks great.
Of course, this bike is not avaiable in the US...


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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YellowDuck
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   Posted 3/12/2008 10:04 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Desmo, in that last post, did you actually compare a MG California Vintage to a GT1000??????? Dooood..... Similar bikes? The California is a ***cruiser***, with a heel and toe shifter and floorboards no less. Compare it to a Harley please, not a 400-lb bike with a 90-degree Ducati twin in it!

I still love you, but it is going to take a while for me to get over this one....let me know when you are ready to say you are sorry...

*sniff*


Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre - Joe Klein

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Desmolicious
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   Posted 3/12/2008 11:18 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
YD, doood, I wrote "Ducati has a similar bike (in the idea of a retro classic model)".
By that I mean they both go for the retro market, not that they are the same type of bike.  If a tiny mfg like Ducati can pull that off for $10K, it's flippin ridiculous that Guzzi - now owned by the Piaggio Group giant - asks for $15K for their retro bike.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Borzoi Biker
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   Posted 3/12/2008 1:21 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Decided to chime in on the Moto Guzzi Norge Discussion. After looking as several of the other postings I have to wonder how many of the writers of the review actually own a Moto Guzzi or ride one on a regular basis? Guzzi has been building bikes for over 65 years and has a long heritage of race wins to their credit. They were building 500cc V-8 powered racers long before Honda dreamed of his first 50cc bike. The Japaneese motorcycle manufacturers have certainly come a long way since the first Honda entered the market and produce some truly magnificent bikes these days. They also change their styling on a semi-annual basis and devalue their own products by constantly changing the look and features of their bikes. The original V-twin Guzzi powerplant was developed back in the late 50's/ early 60-'s and was originally designed to power a Fiat automobile. It was later adapted to a 3 wheel vehicle for the Italian Military and eventually found it's rightful place on a motorcycle platform where it has done an admirable job ever since. Personally I own 3 Guzzi's one of which has over 75,000 mile on the odometer. Everything on the bike including the vinyl on the seat is original! Other than oil change's and valve adjustments the bike has never required a major service and the engine has never been apart. Try saying that for a 1980's vintage Japaneese bike if you can even find one still on the road.

The beauty of Moto Guzzi is their unique styling and longevity. No, the bikes aren't the fastest rocket on the road, but they will make it to the finish line in one piece and still purr for more. And NOTHING has the sound of a Guzzi engine when it's up around 6000 rpm and accellerating. The Guzzi is a unique bike, much like the riders who choose to ride them. They make a devoted traveling companion and certainly become the topic of conversation anywhere you stop. Can't say the same for the 4 cylinder in-line machines I've ridden or owned except possibly my K1200RS.

I look forward to seeing a comparison between the Norge and other bikes of similar design, be they BMW, Ducati, or even a Ural. Now there's another example of a air cooled, twin cylinder powered machine you forgot to include in your comparrison. Wonder why??? I think you'll find the Guzzi will hold its own when compared to "like designed" machines and not the 4 cylinder road rockets adapted and rebadged as "Sport Touring" Bikes. Look and the origins of the engines on each of these bikes, especially the Kawasaki. It's a Ninja in touring clothing! Let's be fair and give the Norge a second chance to shine!

Borzoi Biker

     

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jon
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   Posted 3/12/2008 4:47 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Borzoi Biker said... Try saying that for a 1980's vintage Japaneese bike if you can even find one still on the road.


it's good to see that you like your goose because that's the way it should be.  if i get a bike, i could care less of what anyone thinks because it's my money and choice.  however, i have to disagree with your statement above because i did quick search on just one cycle ad site and came up with many bikes from the '1980's' that seem to be in good running condition from just one japanese manufacture.  i've also personally seen bikes like cb, maxim, etc., from the 80's that are in pretty good shape and running...

here's a link to the ad site:

http://www.cycletrader.com/find/search-results/Zip-95207/Radius-any/Year-1980,1989/Type-Motorcycle/Category-All/Make-Honda/MakeSel-1/Sort-Year:DESC/

i've also try looking for moto-guzzi and search from the 1900-2009 and the number is only a fraction of 1980's japanese bikes available on that site. 

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Desmolicious
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   Posted 3/12/2008 7:17 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I sold my 1987 Wing 1200, in great shape, with over 100K on the clock.
There are a bunch of guys on the Duc St site that have well over 70K miles on their bikes.
There are a whole bunch of guys rolling around on recent Japanese bikes with over 100K on the clock.
75K miles on a bike is nice, but not a big deal.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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louemc
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   Posted 3/12/2008 7:31 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I walked through a Gold Wing group pausing at the fair grounds for their camp spot, and chatted to get more informed on their bike life (and see the tent that pops up out of those trailers). Several said on mileage, they don't start taking about it till over 350, 000 miles because up till then, it isn't really anything to talk about. Safe to say the Gold Wing makes it to the finish line :-)

Guzzi's race success was back before the evolution revolution.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force

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Jay Mack
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   Posted 3/13/2008 5:53 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Desmolicious said...
Why make any bike with decent brakes, decent fueling.decent power and decent handling then?
Just because it's not Japanese is no excuse for mediocrity.

....

This is really a silly observation.  Is it supposed to strike fear in my heart?  The brakes, the fueling and the power and handling are all fine on the Norge. You are comparing them to race bikes that have to pull back from 160 mph coming out of a chicane at Elkhart Lake. You often make these criticisms that are just misapplied.  I toured the country on a 1976 R75/6 in 1980. It worked superbly,  though didn't have half the power or handling or braking or looks the Norge has. Your criticisms just do not apply to what a bike needs to offer a great motorcycling experience in the real world.


 

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Desmolicious
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   Posted 3/13/2008 9:33 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I completely disagree. If all the other mfgs are providing great brakes, handling, suspension, not just the Japanese mfgs, why should there be any excuse for Guzzi to not provide it?
Comparing the Guzzi to race bikes? Are you kidding? A Yam FJR1300 is a race bike? That thing weighs over 700lbs! A BMW R1200Rt is a race bike?!!
Hey, if your willing to pay top dollar for bottom dollar performance, then go ahead.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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louemc
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   Posted 3/13/2008 9:59 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jay Mack said...

 
This is really a silly observation.  Is it supposed to strike fear in my heart?  The brakes, the fueling and the power and handling are all fine on the Norge. You are comparing them to race bikes that have to pull back from 160 mph coming out of a chicane at Elkhart Lake. You often make these criticisms that are just misapplied.  I toured the country on a 1976 R75/6 in 1980. It worked superbly,  though didn't have half the power or handling or braking or looks the Norge has. Your criticisms just do not apply to what a bike needs to offer a great motorcycling experience in the real world.

 
Somewhere there is someone touring the world on a Zundapp and with the notion it works superbly.
 
Not everyone else should agree or be happy with it though.
 
Somewhere there is someone that rides a  vintage bike, and it is just fine, in their mind.
 
Items like brakes, and suspension get evaluated, in wildly far ranging criteria.  Thing is, when a crisis moment occures, as they can when distracted/not qualified to drive, drivers invade your safe space, with heavy metal, the "race brakes and suspension" are the difference between the biker (which of course has to know how to ride a bike) making the moves that save the day, or being a biker (which of course didn't bother to learn anything) on a bike with garden variety brakes and suspension, taking a trip to the hospital or morgue.
 
Ya don't have to be hauling down from race speed, to need the difference, Ya just have to have a reason that can come up anywhere any time.
 
So Desmo's opinion is valid, but of course not everyone will see that.


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GAJ
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   Posted 3/13/2008 10:27 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I can see both sides of this argument; Motorcycle Consumer News rated one of my bikes, a '92 Nighthawk 750 as a complete piece of crap...but I loved it.

But, the one and only time I crashed it was after I'd upgraded the suspension and put on a fork brack and tried to ride it like a modern sportbike with good brakes front and rear, (it had a rear drum), on some well known twisties.

Hello barbed wire fence.

Wasn't the bike's fault, but still.......

Any time I see a Guzzi it does make me smile, however.
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