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bmadson
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   Posted 4/7/2008 11:32 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Normally our man Frank Melling is filing a Memorable Motorcycle report for us, but our favorite Brit was good enough to fly down to Spain and sample the latest Monster from Ducati. Check out MotorcycleUSA.com's 2008 Ducati Monster 696 - First Ride
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GAJ
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   Posted 4/7/2008 12:53 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Excellent, entertaining and thorough w/u.

Hopefully it won't be outperformed by the SV that was slammed at the start of the article.

The lack of an adjustabe brake lever is somewhat offset by the surprising inclusion of a slipper clutch, no?

Looks like a very entertaining and 'hot' motorcycle; pun intended.

Plz give us pointers on how to survive being driven off the road into a pothole by a crazed Spaniard.

That sounds like an heroic save.
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Desmolicious
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   Posted 4/7/2008 1:25 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sweet adjustable levers from peeps like Pazo or CRG are available. They'll be much nicer than any mfgs' stock adjustable levers.
Very nice bike.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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nochrome
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   Posted 4/7/2008 4:53 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Cans are still ugly. But I'm sure DP would be happy to sell me carbon slip-ons for another grand...hmmm, the cynic in me says they planned that. Oh, also, do they have a taller seat option? 30 inches is for dwarves.
 
And I like matte black. Especially if it's $500 cheaper, like in the old days.
 
So we have: Street Triple: $8000; Monster 696, $8500; and Aprilia Shiver, $9000. Of the three, I like the looks of the Shiver best. I also suspect the Shiver is seriously detuned for smog regs and can let out seriously more power than the 90 RWP claimed. But, to each his own.
 
Test rides are in order (Aprilia next week or week after; Triumph maybe when the demo truck comes around; 696? who knows...?).
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ghostrider5
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   Posted 4/7/2008 5:27 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ooops! Paradigm Shift....the new look is gonna stir the pot....and there are going to be some dissenting(and somewhat whiny) opinions! Not to worry though...It's a nice friggin bike! I want it! I'm glad Ducati has the balls to revamp the Monster. It shows they are in the business for the long haul, and they are marketing to more than just one small group. There's going to be a lot more Ducati owners...this is a very high quality bike for the price. cool

Post Edited (ghostrider5) : 4/8/2008 1:44:26 PM GMT

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Mojav
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   Posted 4/8/2008 5:08 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
On the contrary, it could be legitimately argued that the 696 is one of the most beautiful Ducatis since the 916 - and it is infinitely more attractive than the old Monster.

Uggg, whatever. I think it looks cheap and, well, like a Kawasaki trying to look like a Monster. I wouldn't be offended if it was a Kawasaki, that's what I expect from them. But Ducati? As the former owner of a S4R and a MTS1000 I'm not impressed.  

The Monster concept may have run it's course on the sales floor, I'm not a stylist so I can't imagine how to update the look and retained the rich timeless mechanical beauty of the original concept. All I know is the 696 looks like a photoshop caricature.

 


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ro7939
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   Posted 4/8/2008 11:35 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thoroughly enjoyed the article, confirming again this is the best overall mc website IMO.
 
USA dealer quoted $8775 USD MSRP last week.  The styling is very sweet; I was neutral on the horizontal bar across the headlight till reading the negative comments, with which I now concur.  Too bad about the muffler heat.  The writer's incredibly frank comments are rare in such venues & highly appreciated.  It appears very much like the writer had the reader's best interest at heart; again, very rare in professional publications.  Kudos!       
 
I put 13k miles on a '99 SS900 & became intimate w/ the Duc v-twin's enchanting qualities.  I also test rode a '99 Monster 900, MultiStrada 1k, then another 1k later followed immediately by an S2R 800.  The 800 became my favorite a/c Ducati, w/ a superb balance of tq/power/low reciprocating mass & so much smoother than the larger twins it's not funny.  25 lbs less, similar power & even smoother can only improve upon the 800. 
 
The ride report is what I predicted, meaning a great bike occupying a unique market position.  It looks like the 696 would engender great pride in ownership.  This contrasts w/ the Street Triple, which despite its greater power has standard brakes, gross plumbing & is generally ugly (IMO).  I'm sure readers disagree & that's why there's there's a Street Triple.  Could not agree more concerning the SV's cheap look (despite its fun/dollar factor) vs. the lovely Duckling. 
 
Jimbo

Post Edited (ro7939) : 4/8/2008 7:49:55 PM GMT

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sandshark
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   Posted 4/8/2008 12:21 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
    MOJAV! You took the words right out of my mouth! The first time I saw a picture of the 696, I thought : Monster by Kawasaki. It's not as wierd as the Versys, but what's with the tank grills? Yes the headlight is ugly, the tapered shape of the exhaust cans make them look even bigger, and the castings that support the passenger pegs - could they have made them a little bigger!?! And what's this about no bearings in the heads? Surely they mean "plain" bearings as opposed to ball bearings... right? If I were in a Ducati dealership looking at a 695 and a 696 sitting next to each other, I'd choose the timeless mechanical beauty (Mojav again) of the 695, without a thought.
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ro7939
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   Posted 4/8/2008 12:58 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think I read the tank intake is functional but don't quote me.

The 696 mechanical & performance specs make the 695 look like an antique. Persons who prefer the 695 looks must only rejoice for the 696, which will only dramatically increase the availability of used 695s from which to choose.
 
Re. the coming Aprilia SL750 Shiver...I was interested in it till hearing from an acquaintance who owns an RS250 & is an ex-employee of a major Italian mc importer; he has many Italian contacts; his daughter was married in Ducati's backyard & the area mountains look like a dream world they are so beautiful.  
 
Per him, every Aprilia 550 motor has or will fail including all the motors Aprilia imported for replacement; the problems were not fixed.  Further, Aprilia is in general disaray esp in engineering & he recommends staying away till these problems are cured.  As usual, this is only one viewpoint & obviously Aprilia supporters feel exactly the opposite.  It could also be a self-fulfilling prophecy because if Aprilia sales fall it will only accelerate the problems.  

Post Edited (ro7939) : 4/8/2008 9:08:59 PM GMT

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TTT
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   Posted 4/8/2008 2:16 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I think the new 696 is going to be a huge sales success, especially in Europe.  Yes the styling is different but if people want the old style Monster the S2R, S4R, etc remain in the model lineup.  The base bike needed an update because the competition (Shiver, Street Triple) is getting tougher. 

The new Monster looks even better with the aftermarket Termis and owners will find plenty of other areas to customize, I'd expect the usual Monster aftermarket support.  I'd be thinking bikini fairing, adjustable rear sets, remove the passenger pegs, eliminate the rear fender and license plate holder, CRG levers, etc.  I just hope the riding positon is good, Monsters tend to be a little short on leg room and an little long reaching across the tank to the bars.

My local dealer now has the Shiver in stock, I think it looks MUCH better in person than in photographs.  Riding position is wonderful, good leg room and broad supportive seat.  Fit and finish was superb, better than the Bimota or the Benelli that were sitting next to it.  The cans are almost invisible they're integrated into the underside of the seat so well.

The Street Triple?  eh, maybe not if you have aching knees or you're over 5'9" or so.

 


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jsanford
'07 BMW F800ST, '08 M695, '77 Kaw KH400 2-stroke



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   Posted 4/8/2008 4:22 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

It kind of looks like an unholy union between the Moto Guzzi Griso and the SV650.

But like so many bike designs these days, it may represent better in real life--doubt it, but it may. I'd like my Monster to look like a bare, raw, exposed motorcycle, and this is just a little too stylin' to be scary.


Newbodometer: 12020 miles

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nochrome
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   Posted 4/8/2008 4:49 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

One other thing about the Shiver: it is friggin heavy, like 415 dry. The Duc will be about 40-50 lbs lighter. power to weight ratio, well I'm too lazy to figure it out. I still think there's a lot more performance to come from the SL750 engine.

I was an "early adopter" for Moto Guzzi before so waiting for Aprilia's problems to shake out is a good idea, for sure. How long will that take? Who knows...the Aprilia cracked swing arm issue was just discovered last year I think. Same with Guzzi's cracked headsets.

All these cool naked bikes still have me hoping for an SV650 update, but with Suzuki, who knows. They could just as easily cancel it or let it die on the vine even further.

 

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Mojav
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   Posted 4/8/2008 10:13 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The 696 mechanical & performance specs make the 695 look like an antique. Persons who prefer the 695 looks must only rejoice for the 696, which will only dramatically increase the availability of used 695s from which to choose.
 
While there is a constant migration of owners from 620's to larger Ducati models I don't think the 696 is going to cause a sudden mass migration like the 1098 and S4RS did. If you look on a couple of Monster forums you will see there is very little support for the 696 from current Monster owners. Maybe Ducati should have gone all the way and just given it a whole new model name - The Gremlin, for the aesthically challenged!
 
And lets have a little more hyperbole - the 695 an antique? They are basically the same bike - entry Ducati, that's all.
 
I'm not arguing that Ducati could keep on with the original Monster forever, I just think they took a styling misstep with the 696. It probably will mod up nice, you just didn't need to do that before.
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Desmolicious
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   Posted 4/9/2008 9:15 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mojav said... 
And lets have a little more hyperbole - the 695 an antique? They are basically the same bike - entry Ducati, that's all.
 
Same bike? The 696 has a completely new frame, swingarm, subframe, wheels, suspension, brakes, instruments, bodywork, lights, exhaust, along with a heavily revised motor.
Apart from that, yeah, they're the same bike.
I love the way the old Monster looks, I also love the way this one looks.  It will bring a lot of new customers to Ducati, which is exactly what they need and what the 1098/848 has done.  I think the 696 looks like a cross between the Mv Agusta Brutale and the Triumph Street Triple.  This thing will be a run away success.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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YellowDuck
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   Posted 4/9/2008 9:36 AM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Three nits to pick with the (mostly good) article:

1. The comment about the bike now needing "premium lubricant" or whatever because there are no roller bearings on the cams was just strange. Thousands upon thousands of motorcycles use plain bearings for the cams - there is nothing unusual about that, and it is not like bikes with plain bearings typically need better oil. As for "meticulous" scheduling of oil changes, the service intervals for new monsters are longer than for past models.

2. I am always surprised that in reviewing this bike, no one ever points out the one huge shift in design from a functional standpoint: all monsters up to this point have had a linkage type rear suspension, which they inherited from the model upon which the original monster was based (851? ST? Can't remember). The direct (linkage-less) shock setup on this bike is a radical departure from monsters past, and in some ways makes the bike more like a descendent of the dearly departed supersport line. Ducati calls it a "progressive linkage", but the "progressive" part just comes from the angle of the shock and the change in geometry as the swingarm moves, just like on the old SS bikes. Glad to hear that it seems to work okay though.

3. Urban fashion accessory or not, some of us would like to know the basic tech specs. Did I miss it, or was there no mention in the whole article as to whether or not the suspension is adjustable? (According to the Duc site, the front is unadjustble, but the shock has rebound and preload adjustment).

Personally, I can understand why Ducati might be nervous about this bike. There is a lot riding on it, and the "Monsteristi" are having a hard time swallowing it so far, especially the hybrid frame. I tend to think that adding the cast subframe was a tactical error, but I do like the new swingarm. LCD gauges look like absolute crap though (pet peeve of mine). Ducati has beautiful stepper-motor type analogue clocks on some of their other bikes near this price point (GT1000), and they are wonderful. Nice to see them fit great brakes on it, and the slipper clutch is crucial for the intended market (fairly new riders), since it will enhance safety in the event of botched gear selection. Overall a good effort, I would say.


Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre - Joe Klein

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Moto-Pat
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   Posted 4/9/2008 12:31 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
nochrome said...
 Oh, also, do they have a taller seat option? 30 inches is for dwarves.
 
Hello nochrome, Dwarvf here. Do you know why my bike is quicker, because it's not carring 100 lbs of cellulose and we prefer "small people" or "that guy who who just passed me". 
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TheWall67
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   Posted 4/9/2008 1:42 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think the jury is out on the styling.  I saw one at the IMS and it didn't do anything warm and fuzzy for me.  Have to take another look.  I know I didn't have to give a 916 a second evaluation.  Sounds like a great bike though and the slipper clutch is a really unexpected plus.  Great Ducati got the EFI right.  So many bikes don't these days with the EPA all up their backsides.


Hey, watch this...

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GeoffG
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   Posted 4/9/2008 1:50 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
YellowDuck said...
1. The comment about the bike now needing "premium lubricant" or whatever because there are no roller bearings on the cams was just strange. Thousands upon thousands of motorcycles use plain bearings for the cams - there is nothing unusual about that, and it is not like bikes with plain bearings typically need better oil. As for "meticulous" scheduling of oil changes, the service intervals for new monsters are longer than for past models.

I hadn't read the article yet, but this just sounded wrong to me. You're correct, most motorcycle engines use plain bearings--in fact, most engines I can think of do (I own one of the few that doesn't). But generally speaking, plain bearings actually have less need of "premium" oil than roller bearings (plain bearings have no metal-metal contact once moving, unlike roller bearings which do).

So I did read the article, and what they actually say is: "However, the cylinder heads are new and the camshafts run directly in the head. Dispensing with the bearings makes the head lighter but will demand a premium quality lubricant and meticulous oil changes."

I read "the camshafts run directly in the head" to mean that the cams are running on bearing seats machined directly into the head, without the benefit of bearing shells at all. I've seen this before, in older Honda dirtbikes (where I had to rebuild the cam surface which had become damaged, likely due to dirt in the oil, or lack of oil). It is a cost-cutting measure, and makes me wonder where else they've cut costs...


I guess I should also put in here that I really like the 696 in pictures, but I'll have to see one in person to make any decision.
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Superlight
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   Posted 4/9/2008 1:54 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Styling. Very subjective, of course. When I first saw this bike in photos I thought it was a nice update on the original, but after seeing it in person, I'm more convinvced than ever that it will be a roaring sales success.

IMHO, the Japanese haven't a clue about a bike like this. The SV, though a good bike, is unbelieveably ugly, the newer Kawi ER650 also. What Ducati has done is to produce an beautiful, affordable bike that most any rider would be proud to own, despite its entry-level status. In some ways, its the motorcycle equivalent of a Mini or Honda Civic.

Good job, Ducati!

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OhioSteve
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   Posted 4/9/2008 2:55 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ducati has trimmed maintenance costs and they have a good warranty. You could actually use one for transportation...although just saying that is a little odd.

Previously, the air-cooled ducs were injected but they STILL had an enricher. That is frustrating. The reason you inject a bike is so that you can ride away immediately- no warmup period.

Is the enricher still present? Or have they addressed this issue?


I am the foremost expert on my opinion.

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YellowDuck
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   Posted 4/9/2008 5:47 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't know about the 696 specifically, but all the new aircooled Ducs I have ridden in the last few years (several with DS1000 motors, and also an S2R 800) had no "enricher" anymore (the enricher of course was just a fast idle setting, not a kind of choke). Pretty sure that is a thing of the past.

Geoff, the old 900 motor had ball bearings on the cams. They did away with that (and made a bunch of other changes to the heads too) with the introduction of the DS1000 motor. I assume that is also the case here. You are right, the "plain bearings" are just very accurate holes line bored in the head castings - but that is also true of just about every Japanese bike, or at least it was back when I used to take them apart. Anyway, pretty sure this is not a case of switching from removable plain bearings to "permanent" ones - it is a case of going from roller bearings to plain bearings.

As an aside, Ducs still use ball bearings for the main (crankshaft) bearings - at least the aircooled ones do.


Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre - Joe Klein

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YellowDuck
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   Posted 4/9/2008 5:53 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I don't know about the 696 specifically, but all the new aircooled Ducs I have ridden in the last few years (several with DS1000 motors, and also an S2R 800) had no "enricher" anymore (the enricher of course was just a fast idle setting, not a kind of choke). Pretty sure that is a thing of the past.

Geoff, the old 900 and 750 motors had ball bearings on the cams. They did away with that (and made a bunch of other changes to the heads too) with the introduction of the DS1000 motor. I assume that is also the case here - they dispensed with the roller beaings and adopted plain ones.

You are right, the "plain bearings" are just very accurate holes line bored in the head castings - but isn't that also true of most Japanese bikes (the head and cam caps are simply line-bored)? I admit that it has been a long time since I took cams out of an inline four, but thinking back, I don't remember removable cam shaft bearings. If someone knows for sure what the current practice is on Japanese bikes I would be interested.

As an aside, Ducs still use ball bearings for the main (crankshaft) bearings - at least the aircooled ones do.


Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre - Joe Klein

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YellowDuck
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   Posted 4/9/2008 6:27 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Had a quick look at some schematics, since this question interested me. All four japanese 600s have the cams riding directly in the heads / cam caps, with no additional bearing material. The GSXR one looks like it has a roller bearing behind the cam sprocket, but is otherwise similar.

One consequence of this is that if you manage to break a cam cap while torquing it down, you get to buy a whole new cylinder head! Or at least that is what I remember being told back when I used to monkey with Japanese bikes (20 years ago now!).


Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre - Joe Klein

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OhioSteve
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   Posted 4/9/2008 6:59 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
In his review of the Multistrada 620, Kevin Duke wrote "...the 620's left handlebar has an enrichener lever that needs to be toggled when attempting cold starts". Is that still required?


I am the foremost expert on my opinion.

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BLUEZ1000
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   Posted 4/9/2008 7:20 PM (GMT -8)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

To make comparisons to SV650 demeaning the SV is ridiculous. A total upgrade of the suspect SV's suspension would still leave around $2000 with a whopping 10 less horsepower--I could live with that, especially factoring in the lower cost of ownership of the Suzuki. Looks-wise, the SV isn't but the ugly-stick sure as hell didn't pass over the 696 either. Yes, even the Z1000, does in fact look better.smilewinkgrin

 


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