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| Motorcycle Message Board - Motorcycle USA > MotorcycleUSA.com! > Bike Reviews > 2009 Supersport Shootout VII | Forum Quick Jump
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Rich_S
MCUSA Staff
      
Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 126
| Posted 3/20/2009 7:52 AM (GMT -8) |   | | | |
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GAJ
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 4763
| Posted 3/20/2009 11:07 AM (GMT -8) | | Gotta say I was surprised at the results, not just the winner, but the overall order.
A very thorough job and I like the addition of your suspension settings; you should keep that for all future tests. I'm guessing those are your track settings; it might be helpful to include street setups if they were different.
Was not surprised with your conclusions that most make crappy streetbikes though. | | Back to Top | | |
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louemc
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 15451
| Posted 3/20/2009 11:57 AM (GMT -8) | |
GAJ said...
Was not surprised with your conclusions that most make crappy streetbikes though. They are only crappy street bikes, if the rider is such a putz they can't lift a finger to complete the bike.
A race replica Sport bike with a license plate, is a contradiction. A biker that rides a contridiction, instead of carrying all the fabulous features forward into a Super Mega Awesome street bike, with an itty bitty bit of additional work (Street fighter conversion to the handle bars) and the tweeks to the suspension and toss the big fat rear tire (harder to turn) for a narrower one with a rounder profile.
I know that requires the biker to do something.... so.... it's like it won't happen. But that is a biker problem not the bike problem.
Bikers that suffer, deserve to suffer  because they are the source of the suffering.
Focus the forces, Be The Force | | Back to Top | | |
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EdbearNZ
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1047
| Posted 3/20/2009 4:58 PM (GMT -8) | | You guys are really working hard to bring out the best in the bikes and the fairest in the reports.
What the test says to me, is that not only are the manufacturers making noticable progress, but that for the "average Jo" buying these bikes, it is never more about personal preference after riding them than any really noticible differences in performance.
All these bikes are probably several classes above most owners in capability and what gets kudos on the track detracts from the street. WHen the real differences are counted in tenths of a second by skilled riders such as yourselves, most riders would be considered dead even on them all. I'd be keen for you to add the comments of a couple of typical buyers of this class to see how the results would vary..?
In the end, apart from the racing classes, street buyer's are more concerned with pose value re: which bike won this year, rather than what they would generally go for, IMHO.
A good report as usual, no, better than usual. A good report - period!
My wife said, "Whatcha doin' today?"
I said, "Nothing."
She said, "You did that yesterday."
I said, "I wasn't finished." | | Back to Top | | |
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Dr. Bombay
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 1328
| Posted 3/21/2009 5:37 AM (GMT -8) | | It's already been widely reported that the Honda and the Yamaha seem to be well down on power from last year. Blame the EPA noise standards for some of it, but the case hasn't been closed yet. The Euro bikes are also down. Both manufacturers also tried to wring some more midrange out of the engines. Most tests that I've read also claim the Suzuki feels a bit weak as compared to last year, but it doesn't seem to be so obvious in the numbers.
I love the new Kawi; I thought it was a bit ugly when I first saw the pictures, but it's much better looking in the flesh, especially in black, as usually is the case.
I think I would also love a slightly dented '07/'08 CBR as a track bike, as it seems to be so forgiving and flattering to its rider.
Sounds like you guys botched Triumph's set-up but, to be fair, it is pretty sensitive to changes. It should rarely feel unstable, so it sounds like something was not quite right. No one else seems to have had anything approaching the same problems. I know Triumph is a small company, but really, these tests are very important to sales, they should have sent someone. Shame on them.
By the way, nice job on the comprehensiveness of the test, but your scoring system is a bit of a mystery. | | Back to Top | | |
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louemc
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 15451
| Posted 3/21/2009 10:32 AM (GMT -8) | |
Sexy Beast said...
It also depends on how one defines "streetbike".
Practical commuting, weekend joyrides, hooligan antics, delusions of Rossi, bike night bling.... IMO stock supersports aren't crappy except for a long commutes and passengers.
What blows my brain is that these 600s get up to 160+ mph and have enough stability at top speed. MCN clocked my bike @ 185. Are you kidding me...
I re-read the comparo and yep definitely the Kawi, it seems to have the larger body and a bit more weight. But I like what's being reported on the BPF.
Lou, did you go to a 180 tire on the 10r and what'd you use to convert your bars, I'm looking into both on the CBR.
Yes, I've switched from 190/50 -to- 180/55, and in Pirelli Diabo Corsa III's it's two revelations. Both in the tire construction (DCIII's handle rough surfaces better than the other choices), and the Profile of the 180/55 is so dramatically more suited to tight twisties (or stuff that comes up in city manouvers), it's just astounding.
There is no downside, it's not like making a trade off. Now if I were to do track days and city use, a 190/55 should be more suitable, but a 190/50 is just track suitable or (oddly enough) a city dweller that doesn't lean more than slow 90 degree intersection corners and the little lean of changing lanes) wouldn't notice what's wrong with a 190/50.
My route of changing the bars (I used Z1000 top triple clamp and bars) is an extremely difficult conversion (too much for a normal person). The holes for the steering stem and forks are the right size and in the right place, but to get the top triple clamp to lower to the right place, and have clearance from the frame (steering head) requires serious metal work.
What I recommend is get the Spiegler street fighter conversion kit (it's made by LSL, marketed by Spiegler) it's the civilized way.
Let me know if you do some changes and how it goes, and what you would like to improve over what you have done, and I'll try to talk you through it, and what you can expect from it.  I have a friend that has been riding an FZR 1200, and wants a light quick responding bike to add to his stable. I'm (and he is going along with my thinking) the the 09 Kawi ZX6 (OMG have you seen the Sport Rider write up on it?) with street fighter handle bars would be an ultimate right tool for the tight twisties in the Sierra. Normally I wouldn't think 600cc inline four, but... I'm thinkin that bike will change my thinkin. I hope someone tries it.
Focus the forces, Be The ForcePost Edited (louemc) : 3/21/2009 6:40:03 PM GMT | | Back to Top | | |
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kenguru
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 1
| Posted 3/22/2009 11:51 AM (GMT -8) | | | This was the most informative and well detailed shoout ever. Including the British mags which set the standard so far. Congratulations, MO Usa team! | | Back to Top | | |
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Racer1
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 735
| Posted 3/22/2009 8:32 PM (GMT -8) | | Great review - the club racing 600 superstock scene is going to get even more interesting (and expensive) - kudos to Kawasaki for such a dramatic turnaround. I am guessing the performance aftermarket will be up and running in no time, it's going to get fun.
For me the 600 Supersports are indeed crappy streetbikes - I can understand adding one to a stable of bikes for a the occasional blast or for track days, but as an "only bike" it's my idea of purgatory. Brutal street ergonomics, extremely limited carrying ability, bad position for around town, awful for passenger accommodations and a power band that either means slogging or screaming on most trafficed roads... I race an R6 (this will be season #5) and rode it on the road for a few days before prepping it and I loathed every minute of that - it's great on the track (after spending a fair bit of time and money) - but was just a pig on the road. I understand Lou's passion for making a race bike into a more comfortable user friendly, quasi-sport bike, and applaud him for doing that and getting what he wants. For my road work there are plenty of bikes that hit the marks much better right off the showroom floor. Personally (and yes, this only applies to me) I want mega torque, comfortable, yet mildly sporty ergos, 125+ bhp, good luggage options, comfortable passenger seat, good range, centerstand for work when away from home and enough juice for heated vest, grips, etc. I know my needs are not everyones, but if you only have one car, it's not likely to be a Ferrari is it? That would be the occasional play car. My main bike is an everyday work horse that can tour with ease and still be fun. As such, needs to be a lot more versatile. Currently it's a CBR1100XX, soon to be FJR1300, I also have an XR650 for Baja and playing in the dirt.
At the risk of going on too long... I see a LOT (A LOT) of very low mileage two to five year old 600 super sports in the local dealers. None have done track days that I can see. I think that the first year they are the new toys and get ridden a reasonable amount, then, each successive year, they get ridden less and less as the owners can't be bothered with them - unless you live near great canyon roads they are just too focused and no fun at all - they take the car and save the gearing up time. Eventually the bikes are just taking up garage space and get sold off - traded for new and different toys. I know I wouldn't give one garage space for long. | | Back to Top | | |
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louemc
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 15451
| Posted 3/23/2009 9:30 AM (GMT -8) | | Sexy Beast said...
Thanks so much Lou. I'll look into the Spiegler kit, civilized is what I need. I enjoy doing all of my own maintenance and basic mods but being the somewhat normal person I am, metal and fab work is so beyond my skill level. I plan on going to 190/55 Corsa IIIs ASAP (I ride purely street now, a 50/50 mix of urban and rural, but they're opening a track about an hour ride this summer). The twisty roads here are rough so the DCIIIs sound even better.
I read (and need to re-read) the SR article and have been following the '09 zx-6r since the upgrades (haven't heard a peep yet about the more natural clip-on position--did that not go into production?) and BPF were announced last year. Never gave much thought to supersports before until they seriously beefed up the midrange, suspension, and gave consideration to ergonomics. I read today, Performance Bike said this new Zx-6r is virtually race-ready out of the box with a good damper.
It will be more telling on the 09 ZX6R, when more ride reports come in. When the flogging is done on rough conditions.
I'm expecting the ZX6R to hold up in that area, at this point its showing too well to, not to. The BPF design is a major item. It was brought about specifically to address cavitation. Cavitation with previous forks wasn't to hard to do, and when it happens, all damping disappears, as the oil is just foam then (I could do it on my OEM forks).
I wouldn't consider the new clip-ons to be useable, that little change is no change, for the public road, figure on the street fighter conversion, do it right.
The OEM Ohlins damper as well, wouldn't be staying on a bike I'd be riding. Put a Scotts on, do it right.
People do have the Ohlins damper redone, better seals and heavier oil, but that isn't doing the job. The Scotts damper has valves that make all the difference. Their valve system, provides a unique control, so the damper doesn't hamper (be a restriction of motion) when it isn't needed, and it does do the job, when it is needed.
Anyone that doesn't appreciate that , is...... Well Nuts, or doesn't do enough to know the difference 
Anyway as some time passes for this bike to get a Cult following behind it, it is going to be harder to get one.
Focus the forces, Be The Force | | Back to Top | | |
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redtide1969
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 20
| Posted 3/24/2009 11:27 PM (GMT -8) | | | According to the AMA we should probably include the big bore Buell in this comparo. | | Back to Top | | |
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louemc
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 15451
| Posted 3/25/2009 11:38 AM (GMT -8) | |
Sexy Beast said...
I checked out the Speigler kit, for my bike would run $600,
Wish I could say the $$ isn't an issue but I think a tire upgrade to 190/55 in DCIIIs or PP2cts would be the priority right now. Bluegrass Motor Park is opening in April, so I'm planning on track training or track time this summer 
I'm guessing the Ohlins unit on the ZX-6r is the same as found on the 08+ ZX-10r, which by the Ninja threads is a pos, lol.
Good Priorities, I'd stick with the stock bars to do the track training, and the either tire (for the track school the PP2ct's get the nod, by a minute bit).
It's the public road where the street fighter bars and DCIII's get the nod.
And.... unless someone that can be trusted to know, says the new Ohlins Damper comes from Ohlins, in house, I have to think it still comes from the outsource of China, and as such..... Is the same POS as the rest of them, that Kawasaki has been getting.
Oh PS $600 for the Spiegler kit is a bargain, getting all that stuff. I wish they had higher raisers to the bar clamps, so a Scotts Damper would fit in there, and a little bit more rear set to those raisers and the bar bend, so the bars wouldn't get to the fairing, but to get what I want, I do my own stuff. If I had to use the Spiegler kit, and couldn't tweek it, I wouldn't hesitate to trim into the fairing (that plastic can be replaced if someone wants to) and make my own mounting for the Scotts damper (I did my own mounting on my ZX-10 conversion).
Focus the forces, Be The ForcePost Edited (louemc) : 3/25/2009 7:49:01 PM GMT | | Back to Top | | |
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