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louemc
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   Posted 11/4/2011 11:58 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Z1deOrDie said...
I posted this below the article itself, but i thought i'd do it again in the forums so maybe MotoUSA staff might see it and make a few changes for their next "streetfighter shootout".

Firstly, I do not agree with having the Ducati Diavel on the test, it is definitely not a streetfighter. An overpriced power-cruiser, yes. It should be compared with other bikes in its league, like the Yamaha V-Max.

Secondly, I do not agree with having the street bikes tested and rated pretty much purely on the performance side of things, especially on the track. They should be more rated according to usability and street friendliness. Comfort, lighting of the roads at night, fuel efficiency, cost on the road, power and performance.

I've owned and ridden the 02,05,08 R1's and an 06 GSXR1000 in the last 10ish years. Last week, I've gone and traded in my 08 R1 for a 2012 Kawasaki Z1000 ABS. Wow, what a great bike ! I should have gone down this path earlier, duh what was i thinking??! Having had to put up with the "un"ergonomics of sportsbikes for the past decade, my back is thanking me for making the right choice. So much more comfortable. The motor is incredible & so torquey. A lot of power down low. Every time I ride, it puts a grin on my face. I don't think I'll be missing the top end only powerband of the superbikes as in reality I'm not gonna do 280km\hr on the streets, hey I'd like to keep my license thank you.
Your account of your history is full of holes, though.
Putting up with "un" ergonomics, is just your lack of action...Those bikes were very ergonomics changeable...with Spiegler LSL kit for street fighters (as one answer).
Torque Smorque, all the liter Race replica's are very low end change-able, if more low end is wanted.  Typical (but could be too extreme) is one less tooth on front sprocket, three more teeth on rear sprocket.
Stock gearing on my 05 ZX-10 is perfect, there has never been a need for lower gearing (for me), and I ride the steepest, tightest switchbacks in the Sierra range.
Lights?  What You think a manufacturer is going to put the lights on that suit every customer?  Hah, they put on lights...You decide if that is enough, and if not enough, You put on auxiliary lighting to suit yourself.
The theme here is You Make Your bike right for You.
That's also how Street fighters came about...individuals doing it.


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Desmolicious
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   Posted 11/4/2011 12:39 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
louemc said...
Z1deOrDie said...
I posted this below the article itself, but i thought i'd do it again in the forums so maybe MotoUSA staff might see it and make a few changes for their next "streetfighter shootout".

Firstly, I do not agree with having the Ducati Diavel on the test, it is definitely not a streetfighter. An overpriced power-cruiser, yes. It should be compared with other bikes in its league, like the Yamaha V-Max.

Secondly, I do not agree with having the street bikes tested and rated pretty much purely on the performance side of things, especially on the track. They should be more rated according to usability and street friendliness. Comfort, lighting of the roads at night, fuel efficiency, cost on the road, power and performance.

I've owned and ridden the 02,05,08 R1's and an 06 GSXR1000 in the last 10ish years. Last week, I've gone and traded in my 08 R1 for a 2012 Kawasaki Z1000 ABS. Wow, what a great bike ! I should have gone down this path earlier, duh what was i thinking??! Having had to put up with the "un"ergonomics of sportsbikes for the past decade, my back is thanking me for making the right choice. So much more comfortable. The motor is incredible & so torquey. A lot of power down low. Every time I ride, it puts a grin on my face. I don't think I'll be missing the top end only powerband of the superbikes as in reality I'm not gonna do 280km\hr on the streets, hey I'd like to keep my license thank you.
Your account of your history is full of holes, though...

Welcome to the site Z1, and welcome to Lou's demonstration of people skills!
 
Stick around, the rest of us are easy going.


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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louemc
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   Posted 11/5/2011 10:56 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Desmolicious said...
louemc said...
Z1deOrDie said...
I posted this below the article itself, but i thought i'd do it again in the forums so maybe MotoUSA staff might see it and make a few changes for their next "streetfighter shootout".

Firstly, I do not agree with having the Ducati Diavel on the test, it is definitely not a streetfighter. An overpriced power-cruiser, yes. It should be compared with other bikes in its league, like the Yamaha V-Max.

Secondly, I do not agree with having the street bikes tested and rated pretty much purely on the performance side of things, especially on the track. They should be more rated according to usability and street friendliness. Comfort, lighting of the roads at night, fuel efficiency, cost on the road, power and performance.

I've owned and ridden the 02,05,08 R1's and an 06 GSXR1000 in the last 10ish years. Last week, I've gone and traded in my 08 R1 for a 2012 Kawasaki Z1000 ABS. Wow, what a great bike ! I should have gone down this path earlier, duh what was i thinking??! Having had to put up with the "un"ergonomics of sportsbikes for the past decade, my back is thanking me for making the right choice. So much more comfortable. The motor is incredible & so torquey. A lot of power down low. Every time I ride, it puts a grin on my face. I don't think I'll be missing the top end only powerband of the superbikes as in reality I'm not gonna do 280km\hr on the streets, hey I'd like to keep my license thank you.
Your account of your history is full of holes, though...

Welcome to the site Z1, and welcome to Lou's demonstration of people skills!
 
Stick around, the rest of us are easy going.

What's up with the rest of the can't lift a finger to improve your bike, Nancy Boys? 
 It's been close to 24 hours since your leader has posted his opinion of me, and none of you slackers have rallied in support of Desmo.
Come on...Ya know Ya need to.  Your total lack of Mechanical skills and engineering skills and riding skills need to be offset with a sign of "birds of a feather flock together" camaraderie. lol


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thesoapster
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   Posted 11/5/2011 3:35 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
This schtick is getting old.
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Racer1
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   Posted 11/5/2011 3:53 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
thesoapster said...
This schtick is getting old.


Agreed, I think all of us riders lacking in mechanical skill, engineering skill and riding skills are bored by this kind of crap at this point.
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el SID
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   Posted 11/5/2011 4:22 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Welcome Z1 firstly. Secondly,lighting of the road,a rating category? Fuel economy? Come on. Power and performance is what MAKES this class. Most street fighter owners take these bikes to the track,so for me at least opinions about track performance do matter. Not to the point that I take it as the word of god or somethin,but its nice to see what times riders get out of them. Telegram for the rest of the world, The zed 1 is a standard. Not a street fighter. It may look like a fighter,but you put it in the ring,with a real street fighter,it going to lose,cause its a bland standard. sorry its the way it is.... Its not a bad motorcycle,but it in no way is a street fighter. So if you want a neutered bike test,test a cb1000, z1000,some base model monster, an fz8,and a fz1,and whatever other dressed up pretender there is out there. This test stunk. Period.


  the best bike out.... is the one your on...
current hacks
1996 honda vfr
 2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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Racer1
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   Posted 11/6/2011 9:14 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
el SID said...
Welcome Z1 firstly. Secondly,lighting of the road,a rating category? Fuel economy? Come on. Power and performance is what MAKES this class. Most street fighter owners take these bikes to the track,so for me at least opinions about track performance do matter. Not to the point that I take it as the word of god or somethin,but its nice to see what times riders get out of them. Telegram for the rest of the world, The zed 1 is a standard. Not a street fighter. It may look like a fighter,but you put it in the ring,with a real street fighter,it going to lose,cause its a bland standard. sorry its the way it is.... Its not a bad motorcycle,but it in no way is a street fighter. So if you want a neutered bike test,test a cb1000, z1000,some base model monster, an fz8,and a fz1,and whatever other dressed up pretender there is out there. This test stunk. Period.


I agree to a point Sid, but the part you and Lou seem to missing is that nothing is black and white - there are many shades of gray here.

I find a lot of the "streetfighter", "fighter", "people who know how to fight" stuff, macho BS to be honest. The current Z1000 is an extremely powerful, solid handling, well sorted bike right off the showroom floor - more than enough, in capable hands, to stay with ANY bike on the road - any road. People here - rightly - keep saying that the limiting factors in street riding are sight lines, traffic, road and surface conditions, safety of themselves and other road users, etc. etc. and then hair split between bikes as if comparing lap times.

Regarding the gray areas... if we put a Bandit 600 a one end of a line (mild standard) and a Tuono at the other end of the line (aggressive naked) we can put all the other offerings somewhere along that line - there is no hard line separating "standard" and "street fighter" and yes, I fully understand the concept of stripping crashed plastics off a race rep, putting street bars on it, steering damper, suspension mods and calling at a street fighter. A lot of those will get their lunch eaten by a standard Z1000 on the road though, it's just down to the rider, either that or they will be both more than enough for the road, and other factors will influence the speed.

MY last comment is with the line "Most street fighter owners take these bikes to the track" well statistically, no - they don't... not even 10% of them actually! The amount of people who do track days with their own bikes (as opposed to track schools or race schools where they use a fleet) is tiny by comparison to sales figures of these bikes. Most open track days are filled with sport bikes - standard, nakeds, whatever are in a small minority. These bikes are road machines - they are actually excellent and a lot of fun at the track, but people aren't buying them for that - if they want to ride a lot at the track, they generally buy race reps.
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louemc
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   Posted 11/6/2011 9:29 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
^^^ Depends on your way of thinking...I think more like el SID...I don't think like You....and so I think You're missing the point.

Z1000 extremely powerful? What kind of a measurement is the word extremely? Is it more powerful than a street fighterized ZX10?

The Z1000 was neuterd for street riders that didn't want anything as powerful as a ZX-10. You can say any words you want to say...but if they are Nancyfied...it's a reflection on you.

And....I think el SID is way more qualified than you are...on everything. You would be well served to find out
Who you are talking to.


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Racer1
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   Posted 11/6/2011 9:44 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Extremely powerful = 127bhp. I wasn't aware that I said it was "more powerful" than anything did I?

As to your endless personal insults - it's just silliness from an old man who I genuinely suspect hasn't ridden for years and sits alone reading magazines and wishing he was something else. The "nancy boy" stuff and all the "fighting" nonsense is something I have never come across from any serious rider... just macho posturing.

As t my own qualifications? They are totally irrelevant to the points being made. However, I'm guessing I have been to the track more in 2011 than you have in your entire life (I actually don't doubt that for a minute). I've raced at a National level in the UK - mainly 2 stroke 250cc and 350cc with a solid record, I have taught at race school in the US (Penguin) and have instructed dealer track days (Ducati, Triumph and BMW) and been racing in 600cc Superstock in the US for over 12 years.

As we say, when the flag drops, the bulls**t stops - all your endless talk is just macho BS and I strongly suspect you've never seen the "flag drop" - if you did, it would be an extremely humbling experience Lou.
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louemc
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   Posted 11/6/2011 12:48 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Racer1 said...
Extremely powerful = 127bhp. I wasn't aware that I said it was "more powerful" than anything did I?

As to your endless personal insults - it's just silliness from an old man who I genuinely suspect hasn't ridden for years and sits alone reading magazines and wishing he was something else. The "nancy boy" stuff and all the "fighting" nonsense is something I have never come across from any serious rider... just macho posturing.

As t my own qualifications? They are totally irrelevant to the points being made. However, I'm guessing I have been to the track more in 2011 than you have in your entire life (I actually don't doubt that for a minute). I've raced at a National level in the UK - mainly 2 stroke 250cc and 350cc with a solid record, I have taught at race school in the US (Penguin) and have instructed dealer track days (Ducati, Triumph and BMW) and been racing in 600cc Superstock in the US for over 12 years.

As we say, when the flag drops, the bulls**t stops - all your endless talk is just macho BS and I strongly suspect you've never seen the "flag drop" - if you did, it would be an extremely humbling experience Lou.
 
See? Right there, Ya make up things in your imagination...and then believe them. (I guess because you don't get any conflicting opinions from yourself lol )
 
Yeah, Your qualifications are relevant, it's your history...and how your head works is filtering  your history into opinions...and your history is pretty limited into paved track, closed course racing.
 
The Dirt must be very limited (I know You have done Baja, but how you did doing it, has a not very well, cast to it)  and, public road...everything says uber conservative there, as well.
 
No point giving my Desert Racing History...to someone that thinks like you.  
It really makes no differnce to me...I have serious riders that do think highly of my riding.


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el SID
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   Posted 11/6/2011 3:52 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For me Racer heres the thing,whats a standard then? I think the monkier of street fighter doesnt belong to any of these bikes. Not a tuono,street trip,street fighter,etc. I would rename this class a super standard or something. That said,z1000 cb1000 dont belong in my renamed class either. Can a well ridden z1000 hold its own against a sportbike,well sure. But thats the rider,not the bike. I have always had a gift for launching a moto. So,there is a real possibility I could take my H1 and go to the strip and make some one on a cbr-gsxr-yzf 600 look really stupid. But thats the rider not the bike. Im trying, in vain apparently, to bring this point to light.....
 On the subject of street fighters,a street fighter is a custom made moto. Fabricated generally by its rider. Not by a factory. I THINK, not positive ,thats where Lou's bone of contention lies. The industry has taken a very sacred niche and tried to homogenize it for profit. And in that, I stand with Lou. While great motos,they are not, and will not ever, be a true street fighter. Not even my beloved tuono. At least not till I go blow an absurd amount of time fabricating some of my own ideas into it.
 I really dont think its macho b.s. its a guy standing up for something he is very proud of. And he's put off by the fact people are invading his sacred niche with watered down look alikes. So he has every right to be a d!ck and call a neuterd bike a nancy bike,cause in his and my world it is. It doesnt mean these bikes are rotten abominations. But comparatively to the bikes I threw pics up of,(martek,spondon) they are. The amount of time spent on those bikes is untold.  


  the best bike out.... is the one your on...
current hacks
1996 honda vfr
 2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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Racer1
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   Posted 11/6/2011 4:16 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
el SID said...
For me Racer heres the thing,whats a standard then? I think the monkier of street fighter doesnt belong to any of these bikes. Not a tuono,street trip,street fighter,etc. I would rename this class a super standard or something. That said,z1000 cb1000 dont belong in my renamed class either. Can a well ridden z1000 hold its own against a sportbike,well sure. But thats the rider,not the bike. I have always had a gift for launching a moto. So,there is a real possibility I could take my H1 and go to the strip and make some one on a cbr-gsxr-yzf 600 look really stupid. But thats the rider not the bike. Im trying, in vain apparently, to bring this point to light.....
On the subject of street fighters,a street fighter is a custom made moto. Fabricated generally by its rider. Not by a factory. I THINK, not positive ,thats where Lou's bone of contention lies. The industry has taken a very sacred niche and tried to homogenize it for profit. And in that, I stand with Lou. While great motos,they are not, and will not ever, be a true street fighter. Not even my beloved tuono. At least not till I go blow an absurd amount of time fabricating some of my own ideas into it.
I really dont think its macho b.s. its a guy standing up for something he is very proud of. And he's put off by the fact people are invading his sacred niche with watered down look alikes. So he has every right to be a d!ck and call a neuterd bike a nancy bike,cause in his and my world it is. It doesnt mean these bikes are rotten abominations. But comparatively to the bikes I threw pics up of,(martek,spondon) they are. The amount of time spent on those bikes is untold.


Yea, that's fine Sid - if you want to redefine the category of "streetfighter" as bikes that have to be fabricated by the rider, then obviously no factory built bike can have that name. It's just a name, a label though and nothing can be read into it about how well it works. I know that the off the peg Ducati streetfighter is a more evil beast than the vast majority of home made "streetfighters" that I've seen though - which tend to be early 2000's liter bikes that have been crashed, had the plastics junked, street bars, steering damper and back on the road, looking bad ass. There are a few beautiful examples around to be sure, but those tend to be high money show samples and not something you come across on the street too much. Why would a name for a category of bike make it a "sacred niche"? Lou bought a bike built by Kawasaki and bolted on some very minor mods - period! He's no Erik Buell!

My issue isn't really with labels, names and categories - what's in a name anyway, a bike's a bike? My issue is more with Lou's endless personal insults, his childish braggadicio and his conflicting statements and endless assumptions... Any one of those would trip my BS meter (I meet them all the time at track days), but it smacks of insecurity and a lack of confidence, the guy is clearly a total phoney. It doesn't bother me, but it's shame that others have left the site because of a sad, angry old man.

Oh and Lou - you know about assumptions... Sorry that I have the racing, instructing, and track credentials you lack, but I also happen to have 400,000 road miles - not conservative at all, sorry. Being a track hound and aggressive road rider are not mutually exclusive, I have no idea why you think they are.

Yes, I do Baja every year (I have an XR650 down there). I'm a decent dirt rider, however I don't lie, don't brag and I call a spade a spade (you could try that) - I am committed to continual learning in Baja, but I ride with guys who are so good out there (inc. a Baja 1000 winner) that I know how much room for improvement I have.

Post Edited (Racer1) : 11/7/2011 12:21:33 AM GMT

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el SID
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   Posted 11/6/2011 6:02 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
WOW. Gotcha, its a pissing match,and you wanna win,sorry.


  the best bike out.... is the one your on...
current hacks
1996 honda vfr
 2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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Racer1
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   Posted 11/6/2011 6:09 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
el SID said...
WOW. Gotcha, its a pissing match,and you wanna win,sorry.


Hehe - I don't need to win although I do have a competitive streak (and I suspect you'd school me in the dirt) I just don't hold with too much Lou phony baloney stuff!

turn
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jon
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   Posted 11/6/2011 6:52 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
i agree that a pure streetfighter started when the owner had a hand in creating one through fabrication and such. therefore in this case, none of the factory bikes in discussion are pure streetfighters just as the honda fury is not a pure chopper because a pure chopper should also have that individualize fabrication personal touch to the equation.

in terms of the engine being neutered, all of the latest 'factory' streetfighter/standard models are neutered including the newest kid on the block (aprilia tuono v4r) which by the way is down 13hp from its rsv4 superbike brother. don't want a neutered engine? create a streetfighter from which ever model that produce the most power from the same engine as lou mentioned about his zx10 or the r1 streetfighter sportrider created or make changes to the neutered model's motor to eliminated its power restriction.
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thesoapster
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   Posted 11/6/2011 7:30 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've never thought of any production bikes as true streetfighters. Standards, sport standards, naked standards, nakeds...etc., but not streetfighter. I think of streetfighters in the old sense. Stock bikes modified for street use that usually have a list of things done to them that are common among the breed, as not ever modified bike is a streetfighter (obviously). What bike stock actually is just right? I cannot think of one. I'd have to modify anything I'd buy to some degree. My current has had some decent mods done. I'm not sure I'll make it into a standard or anything for street. I think my bike will wind up being a track bike for the most part, and that is how I'd like it to be.
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GAJ
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   Posted 11/7/2011 11:54 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Nothing wrong with calling out an internet blowhard who has not ridden a single one of the bikes in question.

If I'm not mistaken only Racer has ridden more than one of the bikes in question and has compared at least one of them favorably to the track monster Duc 1198 on the track.

Anyone who thinks the development of motorcycles ended in 2004, and that bikes of that year were the "best ever" is delusional. lol

The streetfighter label is meaningless and used to sell magazines; either you like this style of motorcycle or you don't.


Selling my one owner '97 TL1000S: www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372346

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Z1deOrDie
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   Posted 11/8/2011 4:04 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

wow well said GAJ. I didnt post here to get flamed or to start an all out internet war over whose #### is bigger !

mate, all i wanted to point out is ive ridden plenty of sportsbikes, had enough of the top end rush and wanted something more street friendly, with more comfort and power down low. . Hence looked at the streetfighter (oops calm down girls, standard) category and picked the Z1000. I still stand by my words, it is a very good motorcycle. I did acknowledge that I wasnt really interested in this category of bikes for quite a few years until now

And yea mate, fuel consumption and lighting might not be something that some of you care about but last i checked you guys didnt buy any of the bikes in the category anyway, i did. I do care about that stuff because I use it mainly to commute on weekdays and the occasional ride\trackday on weekends.
The same ppl are going on about buying zx10s and modding them to become "real streetfighters" etc. Cmon, clearly you are not with the plot here and have no interest in this category of bikes. Why dont you start a thread amongst yourselves as to who's got the fastest ancient 05 zx10, modded with built in bedpans etc to fit your senile age.

GAJ said...
Nothing wrong with calling out an internet blowhard who has not ridden a single one of the bikes in question.

If I'm not mistaken only Racer has ridden more than one of the bikes in question and has compared at least one of them favorably to the track monster Duc 1198 on the track.

Anyone who thinks the development of motorcycles ended in 2004, and that bikes of that year were the "best ever" is delusional. lol

The streetfighter label is meaningless and used to sell magazines; either you like this style of motorcycle or you don't.

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GAJ
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   Posted 11/8/2011 12:34 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
lol lol lol


Selling my one owner '97 TL1000S: www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372346

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Desmolicious
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   Posted 11/8/2011 1:05 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I like this Z1de dood!


Børk! Børk! Børk!

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Rich_S
MCUSA Staff



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   Posted 11/8/2011 1:20 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
yeah, I think this streetfighter peeing contest is over.


For all your motorcycle news and motorcycle reviews - Motorcycle-usa.com
 
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ZX Rider
Triumph guy



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   Posted 11/8/2011 9:42 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Then there's the old Codgers ZX-14 that doesn't fit anywhere.


Asphalt, the greatest tattoo remover.

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Mr-Show
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   Posted 11/20/2011 11:19 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
since its MY topic! ;-)



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texrider
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   Posted 11/20/2011 4:41 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
el SID said...
Welcome Z1 firstly. Secondly,lighting of the road,a rating category? Fuel economy? Come on. Power and performance is what MAKES this class. Most street fighter owners take these bikes to the track,so for me at least opinions about track performance do matter. Not to the point that I take it as the word of god or somethin,but its nice to see what times riders get out of them. Telegram for the rest of the world, The zed 1 is a standard. Not a street fighter. It may look like a fighter,but you put it in the ring,with a real street fighter,it going to lose,cause its a bland standard. sorry its the way it is.... Its not a bad motorcycle,but it in no way is a street fighter. So if you want a neutered bike test,test a cb1000, z1000,some base model monster, an fz8,and a fz1,and whatever other dressed up pretender there is out there. This test stunk. Period.

Kinda flies in the face of your sig line statement, of the best bike being the one you're on sorta thing.... Feel the luv.


This is my opinion. There may be others like it, but this one's mine until further notice.
 
 

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el SID
merely a man equipped with a bag a seedless grapes



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   Posted 11/20/2011 5:20 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Again, I wasnt dumping on the poster. I was dumping on the test. The z1 is a great bike,it just isnt a "streetfighter" as I know it. And nothing I posted flies in the face of my tag line. This test stunk. I will stand by the statement. z1's a standard,sorry.


  the best bike out.... is the one your on...
current hacks
1996 honda vfr
 2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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