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jon
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   Posted 11/15/2011 11:10 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
out of moto-gp for 2012...
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Racer1
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   Posted 11/15/2011 11:29 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Bummer - if ever there was a grid that can't afford to lose factory supported teams. That's a real shame.
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RedDog
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   Posted 11/15/2011 11:37 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Where did you hear that, Jon?

If real, ditto what R1 said. MotoGP needs all the support it can at this point. Also, IF Suzuki made this decision. I do understand. I don't think it's to the best for a company to not be among the best. Not even for my beloved Suzuki. Better take the money and invest in some better/cheaper winnings somewhere else. WSBK for example.


RedDog
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Rich_S
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   Posted 11/15/2011 11:45 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
jon said...
out of moto-gp for 2012...
They haven't released offical word yet, they could still emerge as a CRT team or something. But after missing the Nov 11th deadline it isn't looking promising.


For all your motorcycle news and motorcycle reviews - Motorcycle-usa.com
 
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Richard47
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   Posted 11/15/2011 12:36 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It seems to me that MotoGP in its current form is not going to survive for much longer. It's not so long ago that there were six factory teams, now there are only three. And if one of those throws in the towel what would be the point of continuing? Suppose Yamaha pulled out, why would Honda wish to continue? I would have thought the purpose of the Japanese teams racing is to demonstrate their superiority over rival Jap teams, if there are no Jap rivals they may as well quit and save the money.  I wouldn't really miss MotoGP, it's a bit of a snoozefest at times, but I would miss Moto2 and I hope to be able to say the same about Moto3 next season. Maybe MotoGP will become more like Moto2 in the way it is run.


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jon
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   Posted 11/15/2011 1:32 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
RedDog said...
Where did you hear that, Jon?
http://motomatters.com/news/2011/11/15/suzuki_out_of_motogp_in_2012.html
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Racer1
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   Posted 11/15/2011 1:51 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Richard47 said...
It seems to me that MotoGP in its current form is not going to survive for much longer. It's not so long ago that there were six factory teams, now there are only three. And if one of those throws in the towel what would be the point of continuing? Suppose Yamaha pulled out, why would Honda wish to continue? I would have thought the purpose of the Japanese teams racing is to demonstrate their superiority over rival Jap teams, if there are no Jap rivals they may as well quit and save the money. I wouldn't really miss MotoGP, it's a bit of a snoozefest at times, but I would miss Moto2 and I hope to be able to say the same about Moto3 next season. Maybe MotoGP will become more like Moto2 in the way it is run.


Sometimes i feel the same way - there's no doubt the best racing is in the supporting classes and that sometimes MotoGP can become processional and boring.

However, the bottom line is that we need a pinnacle - a class where the baddest, prototype machines run the fastest laps and are ridden by the most accomplished riders in the world. The other classes are called feeder classes for a reason, and the top of the pyramid - the goal of every young racer - is a MotoGP ride. A prototype class is the starting point for trickle down technologies, and serves as a platform to experiment with new ideas. Sure the better boxing may be at bantam weight, but the heavyweights are what bring in the crowds and the money.

By the time racers reach this level, they have been on the international radar for a few years, are accomplished, famous in their own countries and this adds a soap opera element to the series. This sounds like a bad thing, but it's actually a huge selling point and expands interest in motorcycle racing outside of the traditional fan base, bringing in crowds, money, sponsors and TV audiences. This allows the supporting classes to exist, without MotoGP there can be no Moto 2 or Moto 3.

Like it or not, we need MotoGP warts and all, and we'd better hope they get their act together.
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RedDog
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   Posted 11/15/2011 2:49 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
jon said...
RedDog said...

Where did you hear that, Jon?
http://motomatters.com/news/2011/11/15/suzuki_out_of_motogp_in_2012.html


Thanks for the details. We all read different mags and places.

Oh I recall so well Kevin Schwantz on that Pepsi Suzuki. I was a sponsor - I drank a lot of Pepsi back then, but I never
used their Rizzla paper.


RedDog
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Richard47
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   Posted 11/15/2011 4:00 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Racer1 said...
Richard47 said...
It seems to me that MotoGP in its current form is not going to survive for much longer. It's not so long ago that there were six factory teams, now there are only three. And if one of those throws in the towel what would be the point of continuing? Suppose Yamaha pulled out, why would Honda wish to continue? I would have thought the purpose of the Japanese teams racing is to demonstrate their superiority over rival Jap teams, if there are no Jap rivals they may as well quit and save the money. I wouldn't really miss MotoGP, it's a bit of a snoozefest at times, but I would miss Moto2 and I hope to be able to say the same about Moto3 next season. Maybe MotoGP will become more like Moto2 in the way it is run.


Sometimes i feel the same way - there's no doubt the best racing is in the supporting classes and that sometimes MotoGP can become processional and boring.

However, the bottom line is that we need a pinnacle - a class where the baddest, prototype machines run the fastest laps and are ridden by the most accomplished riders in the world. The other classes are called feeder classes for a reason, and the top of the pyramid - the goal of every young racer - is a MotoGP ride. A prototype class is the starting point for trickle down technologies, and serves as a platform to experiment with new ideas. Sure the better boxing may be at bantam weight, but the heavyweights are what bring in the crowds and the money.

By the time racers reach this level, they have been on the international radar for a few years, are accomplished, famous in their own countries and this adds a soap opera element to the series. This sounds like a bad thing, but it's actually a huge selling point and expands interest in motorcycle racing outside of the traditional fan base, bringing in crowds, money, sponsors and TV audiences. This allows the supporting classes to exist, without MotoGP there can be no Moto 2 or Moto 3.

Like it or not, we need MotoGP warts and all, and we'd better hope they get their act together.
I agree that MotoGP should be the pinnacle of the sport with the best riders but in the past it hasn't been the case that it has pushed technology forwards. Quite the reverse, the technology has come from the smaller classes and has worked its way up. The two stroke revolution was pioneered by MZ on their 125's and 250's and Honda's small machines from the early sixties were way ahead of anything the 500's could offer at the time.
I don't agree that we want to depend on technology either. We need close racing on big powerful machines ridden by the best riders and lots of them. The technology involved is not important, at least as far as engines go, they all develop more than adequate power. Prototype racing needs huge expenditure and that money is just not available any more, and may never be again, or not for a long time.
I don't even think it's a case of racing improving the breed anymore, although that was very true at one time. When we have what are essentially road motorcycles lapping the Island at 130mph on slick tires, what can racing do that will trickle down to make road bikes better suited to their task? Bikes (at least, sports bikes) are already far more competent in braking and handling than can safely be used on the road.


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Racer1
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   Posted 11/15/2011 7:27 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Richard47 said...

I agree that MotoGP should be the pinnacle of the sport with the best riders but in the past it hasn't been the case that it has pushed technology forwards. Quite the reverse, the technology has come from the smaller classes and has worked its way up. The two stroke revolution was pioneered by MZ on their 125's and 250's and Honda's small machines from the early sixties were way ahead of anything the 500's could offer at the time.
I don't agree that we want to depend on technology either. We need close racing on big powerful machines ridden by the best riders and lots of them. The technology involved is not important, at least as far as engines go, they all develop more than adequate power. Prototype racing needs huge expenditure and that money is just not available any more, and may never be again, or not for a long time.
I don't even think it's a case of racing improving the breed anymore, although that was very true at one time. When we have what are essentially road motorcycles lapping the Island at 130mph on slick tires, what can racing do that will trickle down to make road bikes better suited to their task? Bikes (at least, sports bikes) are already far more competent in braking and handling than can safely be used on the road.


I'm thinking about the Yamaha cross plane motor, a lot of the electronics we see now, traction control, launch control (coming to Aprilia) all started off in MotoGP - more to come (although probably not CF frames judging by the results)! Not all the trickle down technologies are there to increase bhp and speeds of road bikes (which, as you say are more than adequate) - traction control and Yamaha's engine are about the riding experience and safety as much as speed and power necessarily. I do believe that racing still improves the breed, it's just not all about outright speed, there are other innovations that trickle down that become adopted as standard equipment - radial brakes for example - development hasn't reached some stopping point.

The premier class will always be about pushing the envelope - faster, better, stronger - the 800cc bikes are lapping faster than the old 990cc bikes and the new liter class will soon have a couple of seconds on the 800s. That's been the story since the start of grand prix racing and hope it continues.

You're right though that we need fuller grids and tighter racing - I doubt the change to 1000cc is going to change that (and the Claiming Rules Teams are likely to be lapped and in their own race)... somehow Suzuki and Kawasaki need to be convinced this is in their interest, or they need to bring in a full on factory effort to get a CRT division up to speed. Of course if Rossi and Burgess get their fingers out, that would help too.
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el SID
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   Posted 11/15/2011 7:47 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The death certificate was written the day that 2 strokes were no longer the premier class. Thats why we are here today. No longer can you see a real true piece of unobtianium,ridden at its finest by a resident alien of earth. 4 strokes were what everyone had/has. Big deal. Thats what wsbk was for, at least,mho.... 500gp bikes were the hardest to ride,because they required a rider. Not just an athlete,who can maneuver a moto. Todays riders,are great talents. But I dont know that some could ride the 500. I could see alot more injuries all the way around. So far the new formula has worked for moto2. But the formula is flawed in that there is a spec motor. Current economic dust cloud says,in the coming years more will follow. It very well could be HRC race prepped,cbr1000 motors are the new spec in motogp. That isnt far fetched at all inho.
Trickle down tech is cool,it does fall into the common mans bikes,but,it for me, really isnt the same. What I really enjoyed was watching great riders get eaten up by the 500cc animals. And guys who werent wildly successful on the wsbk equipment,really shine on 500cc bikes. I miss you 2 strokes, lurid black lines being left on hot tarmac,a smokey blue haze covering the grid..........


  the best bike out.... is the one your on...
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Racer1
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   Posted 11/15/2011 8:03 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
el SID said...
The death certificate was written the day that 2 strokes were no longer the premier class. Thats why we are here today. No longer can you see a real true piece of unobtianium,ridden at its finest by a resident alien of earth. 4 strokes were what everyone had/has. Big deal. Thats what wsbk was for, at least,mho.... 500gp bikes were the hardest to ride,because they required a rider. Not just an athlete,who can maneuver a moto. Todays riders,are great talents. But I dont know that some could ride the 500. I could see alot more injuries all the way around. So far the new formula has worked for moto2. But the formula is flawed in that there is a spec motor. Current economic dust cloud says,in the coming years more will follow. It very well could be HRC race prepped,cbr1000 motors are the new spec in motogp. That isnt far fetched at all inho.
Trickle down tech is cool,it does fall into the common mans bikes,but,it for me, really isnt the same. What I really enjoyed was watching great riders get eaten up by the 500cc animals. And guys who werent wildly successful on the wsbk equipment,really shine on 500cc bikes. I miss you 2 strokes, lurid black lines being left on hot tarmac,a smokey blue haze covering the grid..........


Is it possible to agree 200%?

I raced 2 strokes in the UK and there was nothing like it (RZ/TZ 250/350 - not close to the 500 fire breathers, thank the Lord). Even thinking about it, I can hear the expansion chambers and conjure up the smell! I loved that era of Grand Prix racing - no electronic aids, sliding, fighting the bikes, high sides in a heartbeat and power bands the width of a cigarette paper. Agostini, Sheene, Roberts, Lawson, Spencer, Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan, Rossi - those were the champions that tamed beasts and didn't rely on electronics to do the taming for them.

A version of the CBR1000 is a spec motor for the CR teams next season, so you're dead on there - we'll see how they stack up.
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RedDog
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   Posted 11/15/2011 8:56 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
el SID said...
The death certificate was written the day that 2 strokes were no longer the premier class. Thats why we are here today. No longer can you see a real true piece of unobtianium,ridden at its finest by a resident alien of earth. 4 strokes were what everyone had/has. Big deal. Thats what wsbk was for, at least,mho.... 500gp bikes were the hardest to ride,because they required a rider. Not just an athlete,who can maneuver a moto. Todays riders,are great talents. But I dont know that some could ride the 500. I could see alot more injuries all the way around. So far the new formula has worked for moto2. But the formula is flawed in that there is a spec motor. Current economic dust cloud says,in the coming years more will follow. It very well could be HRC race prepped,cbr1000 motors are the new spec in motogp. That isnt far fetched at all inho.
Trickle down tech is cool,it does fall into the common mans bikes,but,it for me, really isnt the same. What I really enjoyed was watching great riders get eaten up by the 500cc animals. And guys who werent wildly successful on the wsbk equipment,really shine on 500cc bikes. I miss you 2 strokes, lurid black lines being left on hot tarmac,a smokey blue haze covering the grid..........


... and the nice odor yeah

Ditto that El!


RedDog
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el SID
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   Posted 11/16/2011 5:06 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
race fuel and klotz. My only fix has been my rm 125. Such powerful,acutely executed motos. The world has been suffering for neigh on a decade now from the loss of the big bang motor.
I really hope Suzuki can return to the fold someday. Richard makes a good point though,there isnt a real reason for Suzuki to spend the dollars there. The rules format in wsbk are such,that there is every ability to learn the same things,just with a real road bike. A worldwide tanking of the economy coupled with Suzukis financial woes,means monies spent in wsbk can stretch farther than in motogp. It was the same with Yamaha. They decided motogp would reap the most reward. Plus they were sitting on a competitive platform and a world championship in motogp.
If the new crop of teams start to find the pace of the high dollar prototypes,this series will either undergo a massive revamp, or go away completely. WSBK is a good watch. It isnt the absolute best,but it has a real parody, 7 manufactures,now. It had 8. If Yamaha falter, I can see them going back to wsbk. Why not. Then they could just build engines for teams. It dramatically cheaper.
Also,is it too much to ask to get a round every 3 years or so at spa francorchamps, I dont care about having an Indy round,sack that round and give me SPA!!!!!!


  the best bike out.... is the one your on...
current hacks
1996 honda vfr
 2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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RedDog
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   Posted 11/16/2011 7:08 AM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh Yeah, Spa and the endurance 24 hour races. That's awesome. Been in the pits there and at the races, another must do for anyone
interested in MC Racing.

What about that Daisy responds up there, on my reply? Need a cell phone case?


RedDog
Think Ahead! Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me! Travel Light and Leave Your Fears Behind You!

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el SID
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   Posted 11/16/2011 6:04 PM (GMT -7)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Hi rd would yall need a cell phone case?????
lol hahahahahaha Spammers are crazy.


  the best bike out.... is the one your on...
current hacks
1996 honda vfr
 2012 tuono rsv4 aprc on order baby.... march 2012
1973 kawasaki h1
1998 suzuki rm 125

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