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Posted By : TravelerKLK - 3/14/2006 5:17 AM
Have a look at this from the Daytona Beach News-Journal.

Note how many of the riders were over the age of 40.
****************************************
14 die in Bike Week wrecks
By SCOTT WYLAND
Staff Writer

A biker involved in a head-on collision became Volusia and Flagler counties' 14th Bike Week fatality Saturday night, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.

Officials said another biker involved in the accident was in critical condition. The crash occurred on State Road 40 west of Ormond; no other details are currently available.

Earlier Saturday, a West Palm Beach man lost control of his motorcycle and struck a guardrail, authorities said.

After heading west on International Speedway Boulevard, Brian Rooke, 34, entered the on ramp for Interstate 95 southbound about 3:45p.m., said Trooper Kim Miller, Florida Highway Patrol spokeswoman. As he was taking the curve, he lost control of his motorcycle, skidded, and struck the guardrail.

Paramedics pronounced him dead at the scene, said Mark O'Keefe, EVAC ambulance spokesman.

He was not wearing a helmet, Miller said. Troopers are investigating what caused the man to crash.

The two-county area surpassed the previous record for Bike Week deaths on Friday, when three motorcyclists died in wrecks. That record, 10, was set in 2000 and tied in 2002.

In addition to the 14 Volusia and Flagler deaths, the Florida Highway Patrol has tallied four Bike Week related fatalities elsewhere in the state.

Fair weather is drawing more riders to the outdoors this year, putting more of them on higher-speed roads, said Capt. Mike Coffin with the Volusia County Sheriff's Office.

"Whenever you get these bikes going 55 (mph) and above, the chances are there's going to be a wreck," Coffin said.

But some motorcyclists were simply stopped at a red light at the time of the crash. Some of those killed were wearing helmets, and some were not, police reports show.

Friday, a 59-year-old man was killed shortly after 8 p.m. when he crossed into westbound traffic and struck an oncoming motorcyclist near the 1100 block of Herbert Street in Port Orange. Alvin Palmer, of Arlington Va. died at the scene. The driver and passenger on the westbound motorcycle were taken to Halifax Medical Center in serious condition, said EVAC ambulance spokesman Mark O'Keefe.

A second fatality happened Friday at 11:42 a.m. at International Speedway Boulevard and Tomoka Farms Road in Daytona Beach.

A Lake Wales man stopped his three-wheeler at a traffic light when he was struck from behind by a sport utility vehicle driven by Amy V. Williams, 44, of Longwood.

David H. Hudson, 63, was thrown from the bike, and the helmet he was wearing flew off before he struck the pavement, police said.

Hudson died at the scene.

Two bikers from Indiana were injured when the three-wheeler rammed into the motorcycle they were riding, police said. No charges have been filed pending an investigation.

Joseph Poda, 38, of Branch Dale, Pa. was killed about 9 a.m. Friday when a Stanley Steamer van turned left in front of Poda at State Road 40 and Lake Winona Road, between Ormond Beach and Barberville. Poda was wearing a helmet, the Florida Highway Patrol said. Charges are pending, authorities said.

State police have identified the Edgewater man killed Thursday night in a Samsula motorcycle crash on State Road 44 and Samsula Drive.

Robert Earl Cameron, 47, died at the scene about 9:20 p.m. after crashing his motorcycle into another bike, said Trooper Kim Miller, FHP spokeswoman.

Cameron and his wife, Robin, 41, pulled into the intersection at S.R. 44 and hit Mark DeMaster, 43, of DeLand, as he rode west on the highway.

The impact threw Cameron to the pavement, where he was hit by a pickup and killed.

His wife suffered minor injuries. DeMaster was reported in critical condition Friday. DeMaster is a sergeant in the DeLand Police Department's patrol division, but spent more than 10 years in the department's motorcycle division, said DeLand Police Lt. David Heinig.

This year, more bikers are gravitating to Destination Daytona, a complex that features open-air vendors and live music in Ormond Beach, Coffin said. Traveling there requires people to ride on busy, fast-paced roads such as I-95, State Road 40 or rural parts of U.S. 1.

Coffin said he didn't want to blame the venue for the increase in fatal crashes, noting that some of the fatal wrecks have happened miles south on International Speedway Boulevard.

The chance of a crash will rise during the event's final weekend, Coffin said. "We expect it to be busy."

scott.wyland@news-jrnl.com

-- Staff Writer Mark I. Johnson contributed to this report.


Dangerous Roads

Motorcyclists killed in crashes in Volusia and Flagler counties since the March 3 start of Bike Week:

MARCH 3

1. Jody Driggers, 39, Tarrytown, Ga.

Where Daytona Beach

Helmet: No

SUNDAY

2. Dean K. Ruland, 65, Cobleskill, N.Y.

Where: Bunnell

Helmet: Unavailable

3. Louis Polk, 44, Daytona Beach

Where: Ormond-by-the-Sea

Helmet: Unavailable

4. Craig Brooks, 24, Daytona Beach

Where: Port Orange

Helmet: Unavailable

5. and 6. Robert Lee Weisbach, 41, and Janet Solomon Weisbach, 37, Boca Raton

Where: Palm Coast

Helmet: No

WEDNESDAY

7. David Batson, 60, Cocoa Beach

Where: West of Daytona Beach

Helmet: Yes

8. Lawrence M. Lokatys, 48, Manchester, Conn.

Where: Palm Coast

Helmet: Unavailable

THURSDAY

9. Robert Earl Cameron, 47, Edgewater

Where: Samsula

Helmet: No

FRIDAY

10. Joseph Poda, 38, Branch Dale, Pa.

Where: State Road 40 near Lake Winona Road

Helmet: Unavailable

11. David H. Hudson, 63, Lake Wales

Where: Daytona Beach

Helmet: Yes*

*--Helmet flew off before the victim hit the pavement

12. Alvin Palmer, 59, Arlington, Va.

Where: Herbert Street, Port Orange

Helmet:No

SATURDAY

13. Brian Rooke, 34, West Palm Beach

Where: Southbound Interstate 95 on ramp at International Speedway Boulevard.

Helmet: No

14. Unidentified

Where: State Road 40 west of Ormond


Bike Event Fatalities:

· Bike Week 2006: 11

· Bike Week 2005: 8

· Bike Week 2004: 5

· Bike Week 2003: 2

· Bike Week 2002: 10

· Bike Week 2001: 6

· Bike Week 2000: 15 (Volusia: 10; 5 in Flagler, Lake, Seminole & Brevard counties)

· Biketoberfest 2005: 2

· Biketoberfest 2004: 0
*********************************


--Trav
 
"Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its original dimensions."
 
                                                                                O.W.H., JR.


Posted By : Wixxy - 3/14/2006 6:48 AM

As I was leaving Daytona, I passed the wreck on the onramp for I-95. It was a sobering reminder of how bad the week was. I saw the reports on the news while I was down there and the one thing that bothers me is that this year, more than any others in the past, it seems like most of the fatalities involved cagers. In the past, it had been mostly the riders' fault. One thing that tends to skew the numbers this year is that because the weekend was so nice, they said it brought in quite a few more riders for the weekend who are from the local area.

Still sobering no matter how you try rationalize it.


'99 Ducati 750 SS (half converted to full)
'95 BMW 318is
'95 Dalmatian
'96 Tabby
'02 International Rescue Truck
 
Instructor for Accident Scene Management, Inc., an organization dedicated to teaching emergency first aid and other safety measures to motorcyclists. Ask me about it!
 


Posted By : GeoffG - 3/14/2006 7:46 AM
Sounds like chaos! I can't believe the number of bike-bike collisions!

Traveler, you mentioned the number of accident victims over 40...what I'd like to know is, how many were intoxicated? How many were experienced? (the guy riding off the I95 onramp, for instance...immediately makes me suspect an untrained newbie...).

I've never been to Bike Week, and likely never will go--but from what I've seen of it on popular media, it would seem a lot of "bikers" look at it as an excuse for a week long party and booze-up. And it also seems a fair number of beginners get into the sport because they want to project an "image," they wanna be bad-ass rebel bikers...unfortunately, the image requires one to actually ride the bike from time to time, and as we all know there are dangers associated with the sport, and it certainly does not mix well with alcohol.

So, maybe my outlook is flawed, and I know some of the accident victims were experienced riders who were likely sober at the time, but I get a feeling a good number of those involved in accidents during Bike Week (not just the fatalities, I'm sure there were many more non-fatal accidents) are inexperienced, inebriated, or both...

Posted By : SilverDragon - 3/14/2006 11:28 AM
why i stay away from the 'popular' bike rally cluster fks like this



Posted By : louemc - 3/14/2006 12:29 PM
Not being there at the scene, at every one of them (or another way of saying I wasn't there) this is for me jumping to conclusions. But, I haven't been living under a rock and seeing nothing all my life either. It's real safe to say, based on what I have seen, and the descriptions given, every one of those "accidents" was biker fault. Totally what happens with moron approach to being on two wheels (or three). Party time, morons party time, can't dress for what they are doing on two (or three) wheels, can't face the other reality of controling the bike (they didn't lose control, that implies at some time they had control. These Morons never learned how to control their bike. They just go through life on two (or three) wheels with the supreme exertion of getting in motion and going, like the DMV (on the good days) says is enough to operate a motorcycle. That's a butt load of denial, of what it's really like out there. And why get baffled by a cage slamming into you at a stop (traffic light)? Cages slam into each other all the time at stops. Anyone think the cage driver says "whoa, don't want to slam into this one, there is a biker sitting there, I'll wait and slam into the next opportunity that is just biker free). Grow up, either learn how to ride a bike or expect what happens when you don't.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : DataDan - 3/14/2006 1:22 PM

Here's additional info on the 20 fatalities now reported by the Florida news media. My impression is that the circumstances are fairly normal for motorcycle crashes, with the exception (as GeoffG points out) of the bike-vs-bike incidents. Put a few hundred thousand bikers in one place and stuff will happen.

    1. Jody Driggers: Daytona Beach, 3/3, noon.
      Unhelmeted 39yo GA rider was killed when hit while stopped at light by 74yo Minnesotan SUV driver.

    2. Dean K. Ruland: Bunnell, 3/5, 4:00pm.
      65yo Harley rider from NY was killed when he hit van driven by 32yo local woman who pulled into his path from cross-street.

    3. Louis Polk: Ormond-by-the-Sea, 3/5, 7:30pm.
      44yo Triumph rider from Daytona Beach was killed when he hit oncoming van that crossed centerline after driver experienced a medical problem.

    4. Craig Arthur Brooks: Port Orange, 3/5, 9:30pm.
      23yo Suzuki rider was killed when he lost control in a curve and hit oncoming pickup head-on.

    5. Robert Lee…
    6. …and Janet Solomon Weisbach (Welsbach?): Palm Coast, 3/5, 3:30pm.
      Unhelmeted 41yo rider from Boca Raton and his 37yo helmeted wife were both killed when their motorcycle hit pickup driven by 22yo local man who pulled into motorcycle’s path from cross street.

    7. Rocio Piccirillo: St. Augustine, 3/5, night.
      Helmeted 21yo Jacksonville woman, passenger on motorcycle ridden by 25yo man, was killed when the motorcycle was rear-ended on the freeway by SUV as 37yo driver with suspended license changed lanes.

    8. Richard Germain: Ocala, 3/8, 2:30pm.
      21yo Honda rider from NH, after being passed by truck, attempted to re-pass but lost control and was killed when he fell from the bike and was hit by oncoming Gold Wing.

    9. David Batson: Daytona Beach, 3/8, 1:30pm.
      Helmeted 60yo Cocoa Beach rider was killed when he hit oncoming pickup driven by 64yo local man who turned left in front of the motorcycle.

    10. Lawrence M. Lokatys: Palm Coast, 3/8, night.
      48yo rider from CT was killed when he lost control in a curve, ran off the road, and landed in a marsh.

    11. Jerry C. Bolding: Dayona Beach, 3/9.
      Unhelmeted 56yo Harley rider from SC was killed when he rear-ended another motorcycle slowing for traffic.

    12. Robert Earl Cameron: New Smyrna, 3/9, 9:30pm.
      Unhelmeted 47yo rider from Edgewater with wife as passenger pulled out from side street in front of another motorcycle, ridden by local off-duty LEO. The two bikes collided, and the first rider was then hit and killed by passing pickup. His wife suffered minor injuries, and the LEO was critically injured.

    13. Joseph Poda: Barberville, 3/10, 9:00am.
      Helmeted 38yo PA man was killed when he collided with left-turning Stanley Steemer van.

    14. Jason P. Perron: Apopka, 3/10, 3:00am.
      Helmeted 23yo Suzuki rider from Apopka was killed when he lost control in curve, hit curb and guardrail.

    15. David H. Hudson: Daytona Beach, 3/10, 11:30am.
      Helmeted 63yo rider from Lake Wales on 3-wheeler was killed when rear-ended while stopped at light by SUV driven by 44yo local woman. The trike hit two other motorcycles, but the occupants were apparently not seriously injured.

    16. Alvin Palmer: Port Orange, 3/10, 8:00pm.
      Unhelmeted 59yo Harley rider from VA crossed centerline and hit oncoming Harley ridden by another unhelmeted rider who survived.

    17. Walter D. Fliss: Brevard County, 3/10, 11:00pm.
      51yo rider from St. Cloud on Harley with just 72.5mi on the odo was killed when he lost control in a curve and skidded into construction barrier.

    18. Sanford Highsmith: Seminole County, 3/11, 3:30am.
      43yo Harley rider from Orlando was killed when he drifted into median and crashed in culvert.

    19. Brian Arthur Rooke: Daytona Beach, 3/11, 3:30pm.
      44yo Honda Shadow rider from Palm Beach was killed when he lost control on a freeway onramp and hit guardrail.

    20. Bruce Thalheimer...
    21. ...and Louis Hinds: Ormond Beach, 3/11, 6:50pm.
      While passing truck, helmeted 51yo Harley rider from Naples was killed when he hit oncoming motorcycle ridden by 57yo rider from IN. Hinds, the Indiana man, died of his injuries on March 20.

 

bike vs. cage

10

bike vs. bike

6

single-bike

5

helmet

7

no helmet

6

helmet n/r

8

age < 30

4

age 30-39

3

age 40-49

6

age 50-59

5

age 60+

3

edit, 3/18/2006: Updated to reflect 20 statewide deaths now reported in most FL media. Previous count of 14 included only Volusia and Flagler Counties.

edit, 3/25/2006: Added victim 21.



A superior rider uses superior judgment to avoid problems that would demand his superior skill.

Post Edited (DataDan) : 3/25/2006 10:58:09 PM GMT


Posted By : Tros - 3/14/2006 1:35 PM
Wow.


People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost."


Posted By : RedDog - 3/14/2006 1:55 PM
Typical MC numbers with most accidents happening to old fart over 40. And how many were down there versus last year?


RedDog
Travel Light & Leave Your Fears Behind You!
Normal People Scare me!


Posted By : ianisme - 3/14/2006 2:13 PM
I go along with lou on this one. How many of those fatalities would have been avoided if the riders were properly dressed for the ride? How many were drink/drug related? On the latter point, I personally feel there is no safe level of alocohol consumption when riding a bike. I know that after just one beer I have not felt fully in control on 2 wheels, whereas it would not bother me at all in a car.

It also seems like Daytona has more than its fair share of 'mind-in-neutral, thumb up bum" SUV drivers.


The truth behind the fiction. For GeoffG.


Posted By : martinjmpr - 3/14/2006 5:16 PM
RedDog said...
Typical MC numbers with most accidents happening to old fart over 40. And how many were down there versus last year?

From what I observed last year, the over-40 crowd is the  vast majority, probably 65-70%.  This would account for the higher number of >40 riders being involved in accidents. 

Also, regarding who was "at fault", it appears that a large number of these accidents the cage drivers were legally "at fault."  What is trickier (and AFAIK there is no assembly of statistics in this area) is to ask how many of the accidents could have been avoided by the rider, despite the fact that it may have been the other driver's fault. 


Martin
 
Denver, CO

"Yeah, That's the life for me, Marge:  Cruisin' and hasslin' shopkeepers!" 

Vintage Rice, a tribute to the UJM

Post Edited (martinjmpr) : 3/15/2006 1:19:17 AM GMT


Posted By : jon - 3/14/2006 5:37 PM
i agree w/ most.  just like i don't believe in blaming the bike in an accident, i don't believe in 'age' being a factor either.  however, bad judgements and bad luck were the main culprit imo. 

Posted By : Smitty - 3/14/2006 5:47 PM

Then you have people like many of us that do not froth at the bitt to be amongst a mob of drinkers that think they are m/c riders as pointed above.  Some of us even do not like to ride in groups or with others.  Like rallies of booze, sausages, hot cakes, another beer, chin wag a bit while guzzeling down another, then another beer then hike it off for a run in terrain they have never seen to stop off at a beer joint to have a few & again ride, to possibly get back with the others & have another cool one.  Just not my sort of thing nor do I look upon it as a safe group to be even close to when riding.

Sort of like the sportbike riders that come to this area about once a year & will fill up a single lane four abreast with another 3 or 6 rows behind them just as cramped & looking so much like when you open a tin can of sardines, all looking like they are teriffied & some probaly are.  Again I stay clear of them to sometimes check up on their speeds on the hwys & am surprised to find them clocking around 160kph on a 100kph road ---100mph on 60mph road only a mile from a major city.  Also the reason why so many of their bikes end up being repaired at m/c shops for they mass & riding to close to who knows how many have been around to the beer joints for a few cool ones & how many times?



Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

Post Edited (Smitty) : 3/15/2006 1:51:47 AM GMT


Posted By : bmwr100r - 3/14/2006 5:57 PM
ianisme said...
I personally feel there is no safe level of alocohol consumption when riding a bike. I know that after just one beer I have not felt fully in control on 2 wheels, whereas it would not bother me at all in a car.
Totally agree. The closest I ever had alcohol in my system on two wheels was one beer ,then two hours later went for a ride. I did that only ONCE. I don't even like being downwind from a tavern while I am riding.


One and God make a majority---Frederick Douglass 


Posted By : SilverDragon - 3/15/2006 4:34 AM
ntrr01 said...

I just got back from Daytona Bike Week and I must say - I am glad I didn't take my bike. There were alot of idiots riding there, even with police stationed everywhere you turn, there were alot of people that did not belong on bikes. The reason I am posting this is there are alot of people going to rallies, I wish for everyone to ride safely and not become a statistic.

Daytona Bike Week had the highest attendance in its history according to the Florida Tourism Bureau. But unfortunately they also had a record number of deaths - 19, up from 15 in 2000. The contributing factor to this record number of deaths is inexperienced riders and negligent drivers (cars / trucks). If you want more info on all the details just type in Daytona Bike Week in Google News and you will read some horrifying stories.

This makes me furious when I read this stuff, but it happens. All we can do is ride safer than ever before, don't fly through intersections, when leaving from a stop sign or traffic signal leave slowly because idiots do run these. As the motorcycle industry continues to grow, there will be more and more inexperienced riders taking to the road, we must watch out for and educate them by example.


Joe said...

I've been following the news about this.

I haven't seen the final reports yet, but the daily articles that I've seen showed that most of the fatal accidents were caused by "other drivers." Several "left turns" into bikes, some rear-ended...funny that one article quoted fast, careless and inexperienced riders as the cause of most of the accidents. Blaming a rider for being rear-ended by a SUV or blindsided at an intersection or having a cager suddenly and without warning left turn into oncoming traffic, doesn't make sense.

I read about the idiot doctor in Florida that wrote a letter to the editor blaming a motorcyclist for dying when hit by a SUV. The doctor felt that the biker put himself in danger by riding a bike and had no right being on the road.

Massachusetts is about to reform their helmet law allowing freedom of choice. Included in the bill is a "right of way" clause. Those that cause accidents are subject to civil and criminal penalties.



Posted By : martinjmpr - 3/15/2006 8:22 AM
I think there is a dynamic to big MC rallies that also feeds this problem, and that is that a lot of riders seem to think they have to "live up" to the "biker lifestyle", which of course means drinking and riding. In fact, it seems like there is a percentage of new riders (not sure what that percent is, but I think it's relatively small) for whom the "biker lifestyle" is more important to them than actually riding. The motorcycle, then, becomes merely an accessory to the "lifestyle" as oppposed to the "lifestyle" resulting from the choice of motorcycling as a recreational activity. These are the people who refuse to wear helmets or other protective gear because it doesn't fit with their chosen self-image.

Under normal circumstances (non-rally) this phenomenon is bad enough, but the rally atmosphere seems to amplify and reinforce the desire to "live the life" and adopt this kind of casual (or even contemptuous) attitude towards safety. IOW, the big rallies like Daytona and Sturgis, for all the "live to ride, ride to live" nonsense they might decorate their bikes and their vests with, are largely populated by people who aren't really serious about riding.

"Ride-Oriented" rallies (like the Honda Hoot, BMW rallies, etc) seem to be less prone to this kind of thing because they tend to attract people who are more serious about riding, as opposed to simply "being a biker."


Martin
 
Denver, CO

"Yeah, That's the life for me, Marge:  Cruisin' and hasslin' shopkeepers!" 


Posted By : Wixxy - 3/15/2006 4:41 PM
RedDog said...
Typical MC numbers with most accidents happening to old fart over 40. And how many were down there versus last year?

From what I was understanding, there were 10's of thousands more this year because of the nice weather. A large percentage of those are local who wouldn't have made the ride if not for the sunny weather all last week. If you look, you'll see that quite a few who died are from the area general vicinity of Daytona.
 
 


'99 Ducati 750 SS (half converted to full)
'95 BMW 318is
'95 Dalmatian
'96 Tabby
'02 International Rescue Truck
 
Instructor for Accident Scene Management, Inc., an organization dedicated to teaching emergency first aid and other safety measures to motorcyclists. Ask me about it!
 

Post Edited (Wixxy) : 3/16/2006 12:45:12 AM GMT


Posted By : Scott58 - 3/16/2006 11:19 PM
Age not a factor. As much as I'd like to agree with that, I'm not so sure I can. At 47 I know I can't do alot of the things I did on a motorcycle when I was 25. I know my reaction time is slower and i know i'm not as strong as i used to be. Has my experience made up for it? To a point maybe, but there is a point in your life where youth and ability can be superior over experience. I may be there already. All you can do is try and be careful and hope that if a situation presents itself that your up to it and survive.


05 Honda Rebel
05 Suzuki S50
04 Spitfire Cub-24


Posted By : jgon - 3/17/2006 5:36 AM
I think that alcohol consumption,no helmet, excessive speed and inexperienced riders in 40's demographic contribrute to the high accident rates  at these type of events.   I also think the older riders are very hesitant to take rider safety courses.   I have worked numerous accidents as a LEO and a helmet could have several of the riders.  Excessive speed with alcohol and inexperience kills alot of riders.

Posted By : BossHoss385HP - 3/17/2006 12:25 PM
Excuse me, but if you will notice there were more killed WITH helmets ON (reported) than there were without helmets. This above all...should make the true case that it should be up to the individual on what to wear. No one needs anyone else to tell us how to dress while we are living our individual lives...just my $.002 worth...Please....no more "bleeding heart" people trying to tell everyone how to live their lives and how to conduct their own lifestyles.


"Riding motorcycles is not a hobby...it is a passion!
 


Posted By : louemc - 3/17/2006 12:46 PM
Uh, When morons get killed with a helmet on, what's getting called a helmet, is only a helmet in moron land. Those beanies and novelty helmets, and other cheapest is best, battered for years, things that a moron puts on their moron head, and fails to do protection that is needed to prevent brain damage and death from brain damage. Is no measure, that a concerned to have the best that can be had, will be making. No one is guaranteed to come out of any possible accident, damage free, but, not taking every measure that a biker can, take, is....... well, pretty stupid. Notice one accident at Daytona? One Duhamel get launched over the front of his bike, by his bike and come down on his shoulder and side of head and he jumps up and back into the race? Heavens forbid you would would use that as an example.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : BossHoss385HP - 3/17/2006 1:21 PM
lou, I would never want anyone that preferred a helmet not to wear one if it makes them feel better. The point I am trying to make here is simple...it should be up to the individual. I am forced to wear one here in Tn., but there are times when I wouldn't. When I am riding in a state that doesn't dictate I wear one, I usually pull over and remove mine. I would never say anything negative to a person that prefers a helmet...just as that person has no right to say anything to anyone that prefers not to wear one.  I have ridden one type of bike or another since I was 5, and have had a few spills myself. Some with...some without. I have been fortunate for sure..those times with and without. we need as bikers to focus on what is going on around us at all times...not to rely on some plastic ball on our heads. The first step to prevention is intervention...paying attention to our surroundings, and intervening in whatever means necessary to protect ourselves. There will always be accidents, regardless of how careful we are in cages or on our bikes...or walking for that matter. Being prepared should be a personal preferance, and not a case where others are telling you to wear a helmet, wear seatbelts, etc. Just as no one has the right to tell us what to wear when we go out to eat, etc. I believe in total individual rights..ie. we should have the right to live free the way we individually prefer, without anyone dictating the manner in which we are to act, etc. To each his/her own.:-)


"Riding motorcycles is not a hobby...it is a passion!
 


Posted By : DataDan - 3/18/2006 11:25 AM
I have updated my earlier post to reflect the 20 statewide deaths now reported in most FL media. The previous count of 14 included only Volusia and Flagler Counties.
 
The problem with comparing the effectiveness of helmets on the track to their effectiveness on the street is the different kinds of impacts streetriders suffer when they do crash. Of the seven Daytona fatalities reported in the media as helmeted, one hit an oncoming motorcycle, one was rear-ended by an SUV while stopped, one was rear-ended by an SUV on a freeway while moving, one hit a guardrail, and three hit crossing vehicles. While it's possible that some of those riders were wearing "novelty" helmets with no protective value, it's also possible that some of those deaths couldn't be prevented by any helmet or protective gear. Helmets do an excellent job of preventing injury and saving lives in many street crashes, but in others they can't be of much help.


A superior rider uses superior judgment to avoid problems that would demand his superior skill.


Posted By : jgon - 3/19/2006 6:53 AM
I did not intend to start a helmet law debate.  I also believe in individual choice on that issue.  I just stated my observations from having over twenty years experience working motorcycle accidents.  Excessive speed, inexperience and alcohol are the big killers.  The helmet is something that can help protect the rider after a crash, but the best protection is defensive driving technques that greatly reduce the chances of being involved in an accident in the first place.  I choose to wear a helmet, but my state does not have a mandatory helmet law.  I am not a bleeding heart, I am I just stating that I have worked a number of accidents in which a helmet would have almost certainly prevented a fatal head injury. 

Posted By : martinjmpr - 3/19/2006 8:06 PM
Too bad their loud pipes didn't help them. eyes


Martin
 
Denver, CO

"Yeah, That's the life for me, Marge:  Cruisin' and hasslin' shopkeepers!" 


Posted By : Web Rider - 3/22/2006 6:34 AM
I'll just add a comment here as well.

In the UK we all have to wear helmets but we do find that a chap will go out and spend a £1000 on safety gear will then actually think he is more protected than a man wearing £100 (me) of safety kit.

And they ride acordingly.

Came off my Yamaha 250 in 1975 and ripped the top of my helmet off right down to the black inner lining.

Never be without one now, No matter how hot it is........
 
Too bloody cold here normally freaked anyway

Posted By : jsanford - 3/22/2006 3:02 PM
Ugh...just the idea of being "lumped" into a number will likely keep me from attending any large rallies and events. A couple of these sounds like cage-error incidents. :(


Newbodometer: 2406 miles


Posted By : nadim - 4/8/2006 1:37 AM
Its sad to hear about so many fatalities. I think the only thing that hasn't really been mentioned in this line of posts is that motorcyles are dangerous, but sometimes there is nothing you can do whether its a car, motorcycle, or pedestrian. I choose to minimize the risks I can control ie helmet, jacket with armor, pants with armor, boots, gloves, and I have chosen to accept the inherent risk of riding two wheels. If you get hit head on by a car, or rear ended by a 70 year old in and SUV your gear or lack of it likely isn't going to be the deciding factor. Then again, gear can help. I would also be curious how many of the helmet stats deal with full face versus half versus skull caps. I don't believe in helmet laws, but I certainly believe in wearing a helmet.

Ride safe,
Nadim

Posted By : honda aero - 4/9/2006 2:57 AM
i agree with wearing helmets. i wear mine 110% of the time even though there are instances where wearing one will not help you at all. there was a bad motorcycle accident pasted all over the news a few nights ago. a woman was rearended so hard that she was killed instantly. her bike slid down the road for 167 feet. the driver who hit her fled the scene of the accident. not sure if they were drunk but it wouldnt surprise me. roll

Posted By : intechpc - 4/10/2006 6:38 AM
BossHoss385HP said...
lou, I would never want anyone that preferred a helmet not to wear one if it makes them feel better. The point I am trying to make here is simple...it should be up to the individual. I am forced to wear one here in Tn., but there are times when I wouldn't. When I am riding in a state that doesn't dictate I wear one, I usually pull over and remove mine. I would never say anything negative to a person that prefers a helmet...just as that person has no right to say anything to anyone that prefers not to wear one.  I have ridden one type of bike or another since I was 5, and have had a few spills myself. Some with...some without. I have been fortunate for sure..those times with and without. we need as bikers to focus on what is going on around us at all times...not to rely on some plastic ball on our heads. The first step to prevention is intervention...paying attention to our surroundings, and intervening in whatever means necessary to protect ourselves. There will always be accidents, regardless of how careful we are in cages or on our bikes...or walking for that matter. Being prepared should be a personal preferance, and not a case where others are telling you to wear a helmet, wear seatbelts, etc. Just as no one has the right to tell us what to wear when we go out to eat, etc. I believe in total individual rights..ie. we should have the right to live free the way we individually prefer, without anyone dictating the manner in which we are to act, etc. To each his/her own.:-)

I'm sorry here but your logic doesn't work.  Now let me start by saying, I'm not a believer in mandatory helmet laws, so don't view this as some "Helmet Nazi" type rant.  But you can't use these numbers to make a valid claim either way on helmet use.  First of all, there is a very significant number of these incidents where the use of a helmet was not reported.  Additionally you have one where the helmet was used improperly (i.e. if flew off his head which means it either wasn't on right or didn't fit properly). 

The bigger problem here is that these are only fatalities.  It doesn't tell you how many helmeted versus unhelmeted riders are in ICU with brain damage.  It doesn't tell you how many have skin grafts on their now hairless skulls to fix the road rash.  As has been covered here, there are cases where no amount of gear is going to save your life.  These numbers are just not anywhere near comprehensive enough to draw any conclusions one way or the other about the effectiveness of riding gear.


2001 Harley-Davidson Dyna Super Glide Sport (FXDX)
Jet and Breather kit
Sampson Street Sweeper Exhaust
HD Sissy Bar and Big Bag Saddle bags