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Posted By : Harley1 - 5/16/2007 8:23 AM
MCUSA got a chance to interview Indian Motorcycles Chairman Stephen Julius and hear first-hand how the company is developing as it prepares to re-launch the iconic American heavyweight cruiser. Let us know what you think about 'The Return of Indian Motorcycles.'

Posted By : GeoffG - 5/16/2007 9:39 AM
One hopes it's not just "Here we go again!" story. Stellican does have a pretty good track record with this kind of thing. I'd be a lot more excited about it, though, if they were resurrecting the Norton name with Kenny Dreer's 952...or hell, if they gotta resurrect Indian, why not do it with a longitudinally mounted inline four? (just as historically appropriate as the V-twin...).

Posted By : louemc - 5/16/2007 10:16 AM
Good grief,

This promises to fail even faster than the last "resurection", because the last one sucked the "it ain't no Indian but I don't know any better" types out of the woodwork. When that supply was exausted, the money didn't flow fast enough to breath life into the name.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : martinjmpr - 5/16/2007 11:51 AM

From the article: 

"We have a section on our Website where people can reserve a bike for 2008 and pay a $1000 deposit and we have received a number of deposits. Every week that's increasing. We are pleasantly surprised and pleased by the faith people in the market seem to be placing on our re-launch brands."

Wow.  I'm really just stunned.  shocked

There are idiots out there who will flush a grand down the toilet like that?  I can only imagine that they either have so much cash that $1000 means nothing to them or they're dumber than a box of rocks.  How many times does this have to happen before people get it?  Indian.  Excelsior.  Norton.  Now Indian again.  Oh, I forgot somewhere along the line there was someone who was promising to recreate Vincent using a VTR-1000 motor. 

When will these people learn?

PT Barnum was right.  A sucker is born every minute.  But a sucker willing to throw away a grand on a pipe dream?  I don't know if there are that many suckers in the world. 


Martin
 
Denver, CO

"They were long, and low, and sleek, and fast, they were Classic, in a word
Back in '55 We were makin' Thunderbirds" - Bob Seger


Posted By : louemc - 5/16/2007 12:20 PM
Better add in the suckers that think they are investing money (for a return of more money) in the manufacturing/sales company. It would be very interesting to know the amounts (both single investments and total of investment money raised).


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : bmadson - 5/16/2007 2:05 PM
Maybe you guys are right, but Julius does have a track record of resurrecting brands. It seems silly with the popularity of motorcycles and the success of Victory and various smaller American brands like American IronHorse and Big Dog that the Indian name will stay unused forever.

Posted By : louemc - 5/16/2007 2:30 PM
How many Motorcycle brands has he resurrected? Is he using his own money? or the money of people that think he can do it?


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : baldheadeddork - 5/16/2007 3:03 PM
The reporter really dropped the ball by not asking Julius about the meltdown at the end of the last Indian resurrection, which left a lot buyers with orphaned bikes that had a bad habit of breaking. This isn't an exaggeration: Vioxx likely has a better reputation among its former customers than Indian motorcycles.

There was also nothing about the experience of the engineering team in designing engines, since design problems with the Powerplus were at the center of reliability problems on the last Indian. If Julius poached someone from Polaris or HD for the engine work, that would be a big deal. If they haven't, that's a big deal, too.

Posted By : Harley1 - 5/16/2007 4:26 PM
So I see the naysayers are out early in the forum. Lou sounds like a disgruntled employee from the California Motorcycle Company that didn't get his last paycheck when they closed its doors. As far as how many motorcycle companies has Stellican Ltd. resurrected? None. Does this mean they are destined to fail? No. It all starts with capital, and Stellican has that. With the capital, they can hire the right people who have the knowledge and background to help them achieve their goals. Where do you find competent, skilled engineers and mechanics? Set up shop in the center of the nation's powersports industry for your labor pool.

As far as baldheadeddork's statements, Stellican is more than aware that the former owners of the marque produced an inferior product. What can be done to right somebody else's wrong? Stellican had nothing to do with the California Motorcycle Company and its affiliated investors' failure. Do they feel bad about it? Yes, Julius even mentioned that in the piece. About all they can do though is make sure there are replacement parts and services available for those model years, but beyond that they are not responsible for somebody else's mistakes. All they can do is to find out what those previous mistakes were so they avoid repeating them.

As far as engineering goes, 27-year industry veteran Nick Glaja has been named as VP of Engineering for Indian. You've heard of him, right? He was the Victory Motorcycle Engine Group Manager who spearheaded the Freedom V-Twin Project. Victory Motorcycles is owned by Polaris, so there's the big deal you were looking for. Sorry I omitted it.

One thing I did glean from my conversation with Mr. Julius is that he's a smart man. I was impressed that he has had success with a diverse assortment of investments, not only here but in the world market. He brings a lot to the table. I'll bet he's even smart enough to spell resurrection with two r's.

Post Edited (Harley1) : 5/16/2007 11:29:55 PM GMT


Posted By : freebird - 5/16/2007 4:53 PM
It was clearly the correct decision for New-Indian to build their own engines. It is also good to hear that the "Indian" trademark was purchased by an actual company rather than a couple of guys who assemble custom choppers in a shed on their parent's farm (ala Excelsior-Henderson). I expect New-Indian decided to build a V-Twin rather than an Inline-Four because their target customers are Harley owners who want something Harley-esque but different - but not too different. That is also the Polaris-Victory target market, but Vic's recent foray into the Modern Touring segment indicates that Victory wants to be a true motorcycle manufacturer rather than be perceived as a assembling boutique like Big Dog.

What percentage of market share can New-Indian expect to nibble from Harley? How many units are required to actually be considered a success and to remain in business long-term? Victory manufactured and sold about 7,000 Harley-esque cruisers for 2006 while Triumph and BMW with a variety of motorcycle models had sales of about 10,000 and 13,000 units respectively in the USA alone (Honda sells over 600,000 motorcycles, scooters, and dirt-bikes in North America).

New-Indian isn't going to convince a 55-year-old guy buying his first motorcycle to buy anything other than a Harley and they won't be able to compete with the price-point or advertising of the Japanese manufacturers who also make retro-cruisers. And New-Indian is definitely not going to entice younger buyers with "old fart" cruisers. That means their potential customers are people who have already owned a Harley and now want something different, again, the Victory customer base. However, the "Harley but different" crowd is a limited market and what prevents Victory from creating an Indian-ish bike with similar stylized fringes and wheel-flares for those people who want that look... and how many people does that design actually appeal too? To be an actual motorcycle manufacturer, New-Indian is going to need more than one engine and more than one bike styled into several different versions.

Personally, I'm not interested in a cruiser and if I were I'd buy the Moto Guzzi Bellagio and my second choice would be a Victory. However, I am in the market for a scoot-about-town fun bike and would love a fuel-injected 500cc 50-HP V-Twin with updated modern suspension and clutchless thumb-shift (ala FJR1300-AE) for stop-n-go city riding - build a bike like that styled after the 1927 Indian Scout and I would buy it.

Post Edited (freebird) : 5/17/2007 1:51:34 AM GMT


Posted By : martinjmpr - 5/16/2007 6:06 PM
I think Freebird hit the nail on the head.  Who is the target market?  Does the "new" Indian have the ability to be anything other than a boutique-bike brand like Big Dog, CMC, Confederate, et al?  Building a good bike isn't enough:  They also have to have enough dealers around that people will feel confident laying down their hard earned cash.  Unless they are just a boutique bike builder with a historic name, they have to have the size that gives people confidence enough to invest in a motorcycle.  Because a motorcycle isn't an impulse buy (especially a motorcycle that costs upwards of $15k.) 
 
Instead of asking how many other companies this guy has "resurrected", I'll ask this question:  How many motorcycle brands - of all types - have been "resurrected" or created in the last 20 years?  I can think of two:  Triumph and Victory.  In the case of Triumph it took a huge investment upfront and the willingness to break the mold of the previous company's history (if Bloor's "new" Triumph had insisted on making only air-cooled twins like the 60's era Bonneville, they'd certainly have gone out of business within a short time.)  And as for Victory, they were built up on a solid foundation of Polaris' previus motorsports business making snowmobiles and ATVs, so they weren't exactly starting from scratch. 
 
Furthermore, both Triumph and Victory launched their new businesses right at the time when motorcycle sales were rocketing upward.  Now that everybody and their brother makes a big, v-twin cruiser, how is Indian going to stand out by selling a big, v-twin cruiser?
 
I've said before, and I still believe, that the only way the Indian name will ever be successfully resurrected will be if another, already existing,  motorcycle company buys it.  This isn't the 1920's where two guys with a machine shop can create a new brand overnight.  The market is already saturated, which means that the only way a new company can break into it is to either have a really big backer (like Polaris/Victory) or be really small and specialized (like the boutique builders.) 


Martin
 
Denver, CO

"They were long, and low, and sleek, and fast, they were Classic, in a word
Back in '55 We were makin' Thunderbirds" - Bob Seger


Posted By : Copper Pin - 5/16/2007 7:55 PM
I think the Indian resurrection could be successful if they took a page from Triumph's book:  drawing some from the nostalgic side of the company's history, while also breaking the mold with some modern designs.  Making yet another cookie-cutter V-twin cruiser isn't going to be enough.  Like everyone has said, that market is already saturated, but some fresh bikes could bring younger riders into the fold.


Nothing is inevitable but defeat to those unwilling to fight.
 
2006 Buell XB12Ss Lightning Long
1998 Honda CR250


Posted By : jboland - 5/16/2007 10:24 PM
That was a great article and very encouraging. Sounds like the new guy knows what he's doing. Avoiding overblown hype is a good move. And with his emphasis on long term viability, I don't think he's in it just to make a buck while the motorcycle market is still hot. I hope the new 'new' Indian is successful. One of the critical things that put Victory over the hump was their collaboration with Arlen Ness. A similar arrangement with a well known custom builder would be a boon for Indian too, I think. Might I recommend Indian Larry Legacy, who is not only already associated with the brand, but is probably the foremost shop in the country designing the "old school" style bikes that would mesh with Indian's own image. Roland Sands would a great choice too.

Two things I would personally be looking forward to with a revitilized Indian. 1) Following shortly on the heels of the Powerplus V-twin Chief, they should introduce a longitudally mounted in-line four cruiser. That would draw heavily on Indian heritage while at the same time be "different" from Harley and Victory. That could set Indian apart from the competition. It could also provide the makings for a "WOW!" motorcycle that could do for Indian what the Evo Softail did for the post-buyback MoCo in the 80's. 2) Reinvent the Scout as a retro-sportbike more Ducati Sportclassic than Harley Sportster. It shouldn't be the introductory bike; it should be the barnburner. Get back to the orginial essence of the first bobbers, which Indian Scouts were prime examples of in the 40's. I'd make three styles - a "classic" base model, a bobber, and a boardtrack racer. If they would swing it with a springer front end, that'd be all the cooler.

Posted By : GeoffG - 5/16/2007 11:46 PM
martinjmpr said...
Instead of asking how many other companies this guy has "resurrected", I'll ask this question: How many motorcycle brands - of all types - have been "resurrected" or created in the last 20 years? I can think of two: Triumph and Victory. In the case of Triumph it took a huge investment upfront and the willingness to break the mold of the previous company's history (if Bloor's "new" Triumph had insisted on making only air-cooled twins like the 60's era Bonneville, they'd certainly have gone out of business within a short time.) And as for Victory, they were built up on a solid foundation of Polaris' previus motorsports business making snowmobiles and ATVs, so they weren't exactly starting from scratch.

Don't forget Buell. Although now owned completely by H-D, Buell started out as one guy designing and building race bikes in his garage, and existed for almost a decade AFAIK before any Harley money came its way in the early /mid 90s. Say what you will about the bikes, but Erik Buell is the real deal.

There are also Fischer and Roehr, but neither of these brands is really off the ground yet (if they ever will be). And thene there are some small Euro makers, such as Ghezzi & Brian and Sachs...

Posted By : GeoffG - 5/16/2007 11:52 PM
jboland said...
...they should introduce a longitudally mounted in-line four cruiser. That would draw heavily on Indian heritage while at the same time be "different" from Harley and Victory.

Exactly my thinking when I suggested the same in my first post. The longitudinal inline four is an iconic American design, as much so as the 45 degree V-twin. Definitely different--which is what the market needs IMO, not just another "cookie-cutter" big twin cruiser...


Posted By : martinjmpr - 5/17/2007 8:06 AM
Geoff:  I still wouldn't include Buell in the category of "new brands" because even at the beginning Buells used HD motors.  IOW, Buell couldn't have existed without HD, which makes them pretty much the same as the "chopper" builders who use HD engines.  They're not really building their own motorcycle, they're building a modified version of someone else's motorcycle. 
 
And as for the I-4 idea, I agree 100% but I also think it won't happen.  For all the talk about "uniqueness" and "individuality" the "cruiser market" is more conformist in their taste than any Ivy League fraternity.  Anything that deviates from the large displacement air-cooled, V-twin, fat-tired icon is either viewed with suspicion or shunned outright.  Hell, even the HD V-rod is often considered not to be a "real Harley" by the devoted Motor Company fanatics. 
 
Note that Triumph's first bikes after their resurrection looked absolutely nothing like the 60's classics:  The Trident, the Daytona, and the Trophy were modern bikes front to back, with not so much as a single styling cue that harked back to the glory days of Triumph.  Bloor was smart enough to realize that the "nostalgia market" would only get him so far and that if he wanted to compete with the big boys he had to produce machines that were their equal or their superior in every way.  Hiding behind the "classic" label wasn't going to let him break in.  That's why the retro-styled Thunderbird wasn't introduced until 1995 and the retro-copy Bonnie wasn't introduced until 2000.  By that time Triumph had plenty of "street cred" with the Daytona, S3, TT600, Sprint, etc. 
 
Unfortunately, I just don't see that kind of intestinal fortitude coming from designers in the land where Harley is king, and in some ways I can understand it:  If all you make is vanilla ice cream, but people buy every quart you make, why should you take the risk of making chocolate or strawberry?  Over in Europe, where they are not slaves to V-twin worship, a new bike has to be able to compete with the likes of Ducati, Guzzi, BMW, and of course the Japanese Big 4. 
 
One of these days, maybe some inventive American company will stop drinking the V-twin kool aid and make a truly revolutionary bike.  But if all they continue to do is make Harley clones, they'll continue to fail. 


Martin
 
Denver, CO

"They were long, and low, and sleek, and fast, they were Classic, in a word
Back in '55 We were makin' Thunderbirds" - Bob Seger


Posted By : GeoffG - 5/17/2007 10:06 AM
martinjmpr said...
Geoff: I still wouldn't include Buell in the category of "new brands" because even at the beginning Buells used HD motors. IOW, Buell couldn't have existed without HD, which makes them pretty much the same as the "chopper" builders who use HD engines. They're not really building their own motorcycle, they're building a modified version of someone else's motorcycle.

Not at all, Martin. The first Buells ever made (the RW750) did NOT use H-D power, they used a British square four (Barton?). In the beginning, Buell had no professional relationship with H-D, beyond the fact he'd worked in their engineering department as an employee (before quitting to start Buell Motorcycles).

And while it's true that Buell did move on to using H-D engines (he bought all the original VR1000 engines H-D had after they cancelled the VR1000), and it's true that Buell is not an engine company, I'd hesitate to say they're "the same as the "chopper" builders who use HD engines." A Buell is a well-engineered machine which happens to employ an engine made by a different manufacturer. Yes, H-D eventually bought Buell, so now they are forever joined at the hip, but it wasn't always so.

You say "They're not really building their own motorcycle, they're building a modified version of someone else's motorcycle." I really gotta disagree. A Buell like nothing else, it is designed from the ground up to be what it is. A Buell is NOT a "modified version" of a Harley. Yes, Buell engines are made by Harley (to Buell specs). So what? They use Showa suspension components and Nissin brakes; so do many other brands, and no-one faults them for it. No one faults Aprilia or BMW for using Rotax engines (as will Buell in some upcoming models). An engine is only one component of many in a motorcycle.

Anyway, enough of that. The reason I was checking back on this thread is because I found, on another site, an already existing company building longitudinal inline four Indians: Indian Dakota Motorcycles. These guys look like another of the very small volume "boutique" builders (kinda like Kenny Dreer's Norton), and one wonders if they'll survive--but it would seem to me that maybe Stellican should amalgamate them into their new operation, because their bikes seem more what I'd expect the "New Indian" to be:


Posted By : OhioSteve - 5/17/2007 11:43 AM
Julius is correct to focus on actions not hype. But EVEN if he has good intentions, reviving Indian will be difficult. When you say the word "Indian" many motorcyclists think about the terrible product made in the late nineties. So his primary "advantage", brand identity, is tarnished. And if he plans to provide an American-made alternative to Harley....well that already exists.


I am the foremost expert on my opinion.


Posted By : martinjmpr - 5/17/2007 12:04 PM
Geoff: Perhaps I was overstating it a bit in comparing Beull to the chopper builders (who are really just parts assemblers), obviously Buell has put together some outstanding products, and their bikes are famous for their handling, but I also think it's a stretch to call them a truly "new" motorcycle company (as Triumph and Victory were) because Buell only achieved success by, as it were, standing on the shoulders of HD. Or, to put it another way, if HD hadn't existed, Buell wouldn't exist today, either. Obviously, all of the MC companies outsource some of their products, but Triumph and Victory both make all of their major components (engines, frames, body parts, etc) themselves. The same can't (or couldn't, at least at the outset) be said for Buell. In the interest of fairness, I would say the same thing about MC "manufacturers" like MV Agusta, who, AFAIK, assemble motorcycles that use other company's engines as their main component. They may do a fine job of it (indeed I've heard they do) but I don't think you can put them in the same class as a company that produces all of their own major components in-house.

All that aside, the Indian Dakota link you provided was fascinating. To me that would be a truly revolutionary new bike. I only spent a few minutes at the site, so I didn't look into it, but are there details on the engine? Is it an adaptation of somebody else's engine or is it one they make? I also thought there were cooling problems with longitudinal in-line engines - it seems like such a design really calls out for water cooling. Final point, if the "New" Indian that we've been talking about indeed holds the rights to the name and trademark of Indian motorcycles, then I can't understand why Indian-Dakota hasn't had a visit from Indian's lawyers, since they seem to be copying the name and the trademarked logo. What I'm wondering is whether Indian-Dakota holds the European or English rights to the name while this Indian holds the US rights? If so, there's going to be a very limited export market since they won't be able to export it into anyplace where someone else holds the right to the trademarks. Just more debris to get in the way of the "indian" name, and to make it more difficult to bring it back to life.

To use a medical metaphor, this patient's been dead for years. Maybe it's time we stopped performing CPR and just buried him?


Martin
 
Denver, CO

"They were long, and low, and sleek, and fast, they were Classic, in a word
Back in '55 We were makin' Thunderbirds" - Bob Seger


Posted By : EdbearNZ - 5/17/2007 12:53 PM
GeoffG said...
jboland said...
...they should introduce a longitudally mounted in-line four cruiser. That would draw heavily on Indian heritage while at the same time be "different" from Harley and Victory.

Exactly my thinking when I suggested the same in my first post. The longitudinal inline four is an iconic American design, as much so as the 45 degree V-twin. Definitely different--which is what the market needs IMO, not just another "cookie-cutter" big twin cruiser...

A guy tried that in Europe a few years ago, the bike looked really nice, but I don't know what happened to it. Used a Volvo car engine as the base with a finned block.


They say you're only young once! I'm trying to make it last...


Posted By : GeoffG - 5/17/2007 3:09 PM
martinjmpr said...
All that aside, the Indian Dakota link you provided was fascinating. To me that would be a truly revolutionary new bike. I only spent a few minutes at the site, so I didn't look into it, but are there details on the engine?

Martin, there ARE some engine specs on the site (be aware their dyno graphs are staggered--that is, hp and torque are scaled differently). They claim 74 hp and 117 lb-ft. of torque, with a redline at 4400 and a very flat torque curve. It is an air-cooled OHV I4, which IMO is about as historically correct as you're gonna get.

I've heard of these guys before, and I believe you're correct, they've got the rights to the Indian name outside North America only--which is another reason I think Stellican should be approaching them, to amalgamate them with their American operation and re-create a single Indian Motorcycle Company worldwide. I really think the market would accept an I4 like the Dakota--sounds like the things got tons of torque, kinda like the Triumph R3, but it has the Indian name which Triumph simply doesn't have. And it's definitely NOT a H-D clone.

And oh, you have to forgive me, I do get a bit reactive when anyone comments about Buell. I understand what you're saying, but knowing what I do about Erik Buell, I believe there would be a Buell Motorcycle Company whether H-D was around or not--it might just have someone else's engines in it :-) Unlike some other American motorcycle innovators like Roehrich, Fischer, and Czysz, Buell is actually in production and in the market with competetive, affordable motorcycles...

Posted By : Smitty - 5/17/2007 7:17 PM
Freebird your Indian Sport Scout in the print is REALLY a Junior Sport Scout 30.5"SV & so 500cc. The regular Sport Scout was a 45SV & so 750cc. A friend of mine had a Jr. Sport Scout------reason I got to know the bike for often we had to get parts from the Indian dealer & believe me Andy, the Indian dealer, knew his bikes as he was with the Indian m/c shop in the 20s. Many a night we would be at his place with him having his one beer of the night while I had my tea & we talked about m/cs of the past, at that time, & what was about to come plus both of us were flat trackers in the comp world.
 
Of interest at the different circuis events, like the Wall of Death riders basically use the Jr. Sport Scout you mentioned to even the dual top frame with the petrol tank in between & yes that was even back in the early 50s.  Yes they would allow me to ride them for one to several others would be flat trackers I use to compete against or in one case a dirt hill climber I was lucky to stay close to the height & time.


Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

Post Edited (Smitty) : 5/20/2007 8:14:03 PM GMT


Posted By : martinjmpr - 5/18/2007 9:13 AM
Here's why I think these efforts are almost always doomed to fail: They're going about it backwards. Instead of starting off with an old name and an old bike design and then trying to cash in on the nostalgia market, why not start off with a great bike, and then build on that until it has a great name?

I think it was Harry Carey or someone who once said "nostalgia is not what it used to be." Here's what I mean: How many of you may have remembered some old movie or TV show from your youth, something you thought was very funny, or very dramatic, or very entertaining. All through the years you carried that memory with you. You compared the current shows and movies and said "man, they'll never be as funny/original/exciting as ________ was!"

Then, you discover that _________ is being released on DVD. So you rush down and buy it (or order it off the internet), you eagerly pop it into your DVD player, start watching....and they you realize, with disappointment, that it just isn't all that good! shakehead

IOW, when it was unavailable, you idealized it in your mind, but when you actually saw it, you realized that it wasn't that funny, or that dramatic, or even that interesting. So you put the DVDs away and probably never watch them again. I know I've had this experience and I'll bet most of you have, too.

This is the problem with "resurrecting" a brand like Indian, or Norton or BSA. In the minds of the devoted fans, they have built up such an idealized picture that no motorcycle could ever live up to it. Combine that with an exorbitant, highway robbery price, a con-artist sales technique and spotty reliability, and you have a recipe for failure.

If you want to make a great bike, then just make a great bike! Do what Triumph did in 1989 and look forward, not backwards. At 45 I'm certainly not old enough to remember the glory days of Indian (a company that went out of business 8 or 9 years before I was born) but I'm old enough to remember the early Japanese bikes of the 70's, and although I might have a soft spot for those old irons, I sure as hell wouldn't lay down 20 grand to buy a modern replica of one. I, for one, don't miss kick starters, leaky motors, hand shifters, failure-prone electrical parts or bikes that weighed 500 lbs and put out 20hp. Some may call them the "good old days" but when you look closely, you'll see that they weren't all that good!

There probably could be a successful "new" Indian, but IMO the only way it will happen is if an already existing company (HD, Victory, or maybe one of the Japanese big-4) buys the rights to the name and makes them in their facilities. That way you'd have the dealer network and the reliability of a known brand.


Martin
 
Denver, CO

"They were long, and low, and sleek, and fast, they were Classic, in a word
Back in '55 We were makin' Thunderbirds" - Bob Seger


Posted By : POWER STROKE - 5/18/2007 12:15 PM
All of you have made valid points, all of which have been made in the Indian motorcycle community for the past 3-4 years.
 
There are three camps, those who believe that IMI will be a failure, those that believe that it will be a success, and those that will wait and see.
 
I fall into the second catagory, as Stephen Julius and the IMI (Indian Motorcycle International) crew has done nothing to make me think otherwise, and believe me, I am far from being the eternal optomist.
 
In their Yacht and powerboat operations they do not build just one style, so to assume that will be the case with Indian is just simply foolish, given time I am sure we will all be surprised.
 
That being said, I would like to see a lineup similiar in diversity as that of Triumph.
 
As a Gilroy Indian owner let me say that I have a unique perspective of these bikes and it humors me when all I see is negitivity concerning them, mostly from non owners who read something, heard something, knew someone who knew someone, etc, etc.
 
These motorcycles were not perfect, but when it's issues have been addressed and sorted out, they are a hell of a bike that does all things extremely well, and unless you own one you simply cannot speak to it's qualities, just as I cannot concerning a Triumph, BMW, or a Honda.
 
If IMI builds on and improves the solid '02-'04 Powerplus Chief platform (And it appears they will) they will have a solid foundation from which they will be able to create some great motorcycles and have the flexability to produce more sporting designs that will attract newer and younger buyers.
 
I can't wait to see what the future will bring.
 
 


" You can do anything if you have enthusiasm.
With it, there is acomplishment.
Without it, there are only alibis."  Henry Ford
 
 
 
 
Proprietary '02 Indian Chief Standard - Not a HD Softail clone.
120HP, 118TQ, ILM front suspension, KW rear monoshock
Regularly ridden at speeds well over 100mph.
The only thing that slows me in the twisties is dragging my footboards.

Post Edited (POWER STROKE) : 5/18/2007 8:02:56 PM GMT


Posted By : Copper Pin - 5/18/2007 5:17 PM
Seems like they're going to try to go directly head-to-head with Harley.  I would rather try to build the brand into an "American Triumph" because there's already an "Alternative Harley" in Victory, I don't think there's room for a third.  I hope they make something a more reasonable size than the last Chief, I think the "gargantuan luxury cruiser" market is saturated.
 
I'd be aiming for three different models, myself.  Cruisers are too popular to ignore, so you got to have the Chief in the lineup.  I'd launch the Scout as a modern sport standard/streetfighter, which would draw on the sporting traditions of the company's early days.  Finally, a third model in the street-oriented dual sport/lightweight touring style, along the lines of the V-Strom and Ulysses.  These two bikes could share components (and a modern, liquid-cooled engine) and development costs.  With a spread of models such as this, you'd be able to reach a wider market.
 
Well, I wish them luck.  They have a better shot than most at resurrecting Indian.  They have the capital and track record, and the right attitude when they say this is a 10-20 year project.  Keeping quiet is a smart move too.  Better than building up lots of hype that they could never possibly live up to.


Nothing is inevitable but defeat to those unwilling to fight.
 
2006 Buell XB12Ss Lightning Long
1998 Honda CR250


Posted By : CHIEFNOMAD - 5/19/2007 11:14 AM
POWER STROKE said...
 
I fall into the second catagory, as Stephen Julius and the IMI (Indian Motorcycle International) crew has done nothing to make me think otherwise, and believe me, I am far from being the eternal optomist.
 
I can't wait to see what the future will bring.
If all the people who admires my Chief, buys one of the new ones, there will be a lot of Indians out there. I can't wait for that day.
Best wishes for the new Indians
 

Posted By : Shakli - 5/20/2007 9:46 AM
I hope it goes well for them. If they can make a reliable well engendered bike they have a shot at success. These days reliable is mandatory for long success of a bike line. Truth is I am more interested in what they do with the scout. This is where they really have a chance to be creative.


"It is much more fun to ride a less-powerful bike quickly/fast than it is to ride high-powered bike slow." Andy VH


Posted By : Mac_Muz - 5/22/2007 12:37 PM
Chief/Nomad? That you from over to delphi? mac...


So many bikes, and so little memory
Ossipee New Hampster "Eat Seeds or Die"
 
 


Posted By : satyride - 6/9/2007 6:11 PM
why bother ?o we need another Oldsmobile? Let the Chinese have a go at it.Everyone's a chief.Stupid 2000 left over with no factory support, 800+ lbs of chrome, bad coil, jackshaft, ....only a Harley head could relate to it.YOU CAN"T RELIVE THE PAST...move forwrd or die.


THE SATYR makes the/ and lives by the ....RULES...his own

Post Edited (satyride) : 6/10/2007 1:19:46 AM GMT


Posted By : EdbearNZ - 6/9/2007 7:23 PM
I'm sure the Chinese would have a go!
 
Kawasaki did and by all accounts it was a good bike!


They say you're only young once! I'm trying to make it last...


Posted By : louemc - 6/9/2007 7:32 PM
What would be the ultimate hoot would be if the Chinese made a resurrected Indian that was a success. Wouldn't that just be a bitch slap in the face to the American failure in Gilroy California?


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 6/9/2007 7:38 PM
EdbearNZ said...
I'm sure the Chinese would have a go!
 
Kawasaki did and by all accounts it was a good bike!

The Drifter didn'handle as well as the Nomad, due to un-sprung weight issues, but sharing the same drivetrain was basically a really solid bike.

 

Lots of guys have transplanted the Drifter fender to a Nomad or Vulcan Classis just to get "the look". Here's one from last year's VROC rally:

 


 


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
VROC #11619 Rolling Blunder #128


Posted By : Harley Davidson - 6/11/2007 6:25 PM
Well, I hope they make a go it. I think they have chance. It sounds like they have the money to back up the venture for a while. And if they can actually turn out a quality bike, with no issues, at a good price, and hang in there long enough, they just might make it. I hope they do. I think if they will give us a good product with very little or better yet no cheap plastic chrome, a good motor, decent suspenson which the Scout never had, at least on the last time around, and clean up the wiring, then maybe we will have some competition for Harley.


 
     


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/27/2007 2:33 PM
POWER STROKE said...
All of you have made valid points, all of which have been made in the Indian motorcycle community for the past 3-4 years.



There are three camps, those who believe that IMI will be a failure, those that believe that it will be a success, and those that will wait and see.



I fall into the second catagory, as Stephen Julius and the IMI (Indian Motorcycle International) crew has done nothing to make me think otherwise, and believe me, I am far from being the eternal optomist.



In their Yacht and powerboat operations they do not build just one style, so to assume that will be the case with Indian is just simply foolish, given time I am sure we will all be surprised.



That being said, I would like to see a lineup similiar in diversity as that of Triumph.



As a Gilroy Indian owner let me say that I have a unique perspective of these bikes and it humors me when all I see is negitivity concerning them, mostly from non owners who read something, heard something, knew someone who knew someone, etc, etc.



These motorcycles were not perfect, but when it's issues have been addressed and sorted out, they are a hell of a bike that does all things extremely well, and unless you own one you simply cannot speak to it's qualities, just as I cannot concerning a Triumph, BMW, or a Honda.



If IMI builds on and improves the solid '02-'04 Powerplus Chief platform (And it appears they will) they will have a solid foundation from which they will be able to create some great motorcycles and have the flexability to produce more sporting designs that will attract newer and younger buyers.



I can't wait to see what the future will bring.


Hello Power Stroke--I figured we'd meet up again somewhere out in this cyber world.
Interesting post you have made here.
Seems like you are at it again--proclaiming yourself the know all -- end all authority concerning Gilroy Indian Motorcycles.
Lets be fair and give these folks a differing opinion.
It will be intersting to see if they are open minded enough to listen to ANOTHER side of the story.

Yes Friends there are 3 groups.
1. Those that believe IMC will be a failure.
2.Those that believe it will succeed.
3. Those with a wait and see attitude.

Lets take a minute, and break down the camps.
1. The failure Camp.
Also known as the doom sayers--also known as the kool aid drinkers--lapdogs--and general all around trouble makers.
Why would we have that reputation you may ask?
Because we did a little research on the curent owners of Indian.
Because we chose to believe that there are MORAL ways to deal with some of the unanswered--ignored questions concerning the demise and ressurection of the modern day Indian Companies.
Because we chose to align ourselves with a respected businessman who has his own visions concerning how a resurrection of Indian should be handled.

2.Those that believe Stellican will revive Indian Motorcycle Camp.
Also known as the Sheeple that seem to want to be led by the nose by a group of Southern California Internet Nazis who have proclaimed themselves the Rulers of the Universe concerning Indian Motorcycle--their History--their Care and upkeep.
Also known as the "Brotherhood" of Indian Motorcycle riders who run a so called "Open Forum" concerning all things Indian.
Problem is?
The forum is only open to Indian Riders who toe the line.
There is a definite political agenda in place on that forum to maintain a PRO STELLICAN atmosphere.
Excuse me here--how is a forum Public, and free when you are expected to only speak positives about a Company you find distasteful?
Answer is?
That forum was being directed towards an alliance with the Stellican Indian Company.
Problem?
That forum lost-ran off--and abused members to the point of self destruction trying to attain that goal.
And?
In the end that forum and the Riders Group it represents was publicly passed by this past Summer in place of the old Gilroy Riders Group the IRG.
Yep--Stellican kind of put it to you boys didn't they PS?

Interesting that you put yourself into the optimist camp Power Stroke.
You state that Julius has never done anything to make you feel anything but optimistic concerning their resuerrection attempt.
Let me see?
Get Ready to Ride--05?
Get Ready to Ride--06?
Get Ready to Ride--07?
Get Ready to Ride--08--Well maybe 09 if you read their latest press release.

Me?
I'm a suspicious sort--I'm going to guess the delay in reintroducing the New StellicIndian might have something to do withoutstanding warranty issues.
Maybe a time concern on liability issues?
Hey PS--have you done your research--I'll tell you a little Liability story some day.

Why don't you tell these folks about the PR Lady (Karin Moss)being released what--2 months ago.
Reason being cited on your other board?
Nothing for her to do right now-Yes folks--there's a new business philosophy for you.
Supposedly they are ready to launch their"Iconic" brand REALLY SOON, and there is no work for a Public Relations Specialist.

Hey Power Stroke.
Want to let these folks know how Karin introduced the New Indian Motorcycle at the California Concours Show Last Spring?
Moet Champagne Chief--complete with cooler for your bottles of Moet Champagne.
Those are some REAL MOTORCYCLE RIDING FOLKS there don't you think?

Latest Press Release?
They are partnering with a high end clothing maker to introduce "ICONIC" Indian Branded apperal.
Exclusively sold through NIEMAN MARCUS.
According to the press release they issued--you will be able to buy all your Indian clothing in Nieman Marcus--right down to the -- and this is a quote from the article--"HARD CORE BIKER GEAR"--Damn folks--I guess I'm a poor biker--never been into a Nieman Marcus, and couldn't afford to buy anything in there anyway.

Oh--before I forget?
This Iconic American Riding Appearal?
Going to be made in China.

Hey Power Stroke!

If they build on the "solid '02-'04 platform" ?????
What was solid about it?
Hey folks--I ride one of the nicest Cheefs you are going to ever see on the road.
45k on it now--but every one was earned.
Believe me -- it was no kind of solid platform when I bought it.
Hey PS where do we begin?
I'll make rundown on what I've done to mine in the past 3 years.
1.
Head gaskets.
2 sets--one went 2 weeks and 3000 miles after it came off the showroom floor.
PS--how many PP head gaskets do you personally know of that have been replaced--and replaced--and replaced?
What do you reckon PS--head gaskets a problem on the PP motors as they came out of the factory?

2.
Pinion failure on the '02-'04 Power Plus Motors as they came out of the factory.
Come on Power Stroke--how many miles before you had to have a rebuild?
Me --I got to 5500 miles.
If I remeber right you weren't far behind.

3.
Wiring issues.
How many night and afternoons did you lose riding time to tryin to sort out the wiring gremlins.

4.
Soft rear pulley.
How many miles before you replaced that bad boy?
I got round 20k and it shit the bed on me.

I could go on and on and on--and you'd have to agree I was being truthful.
Me?
I was lucky enough to get mine to a rebuilder who knows his business--you sent your bike to the SAME guy when your motor took a dump--remember?
Yes folks--a lot of the issues have been worked out of these Gilroy bikes, and they are dependable as hell when you get them right-I've done 4 Iron Butt Rides on my Cheef and I trust him to get me where I want to go--but he sure wasn't born that way.
I'll tell you right here and now--Stellican had NOTHING to do withany improvements you'll see being made on Gilroy bikes.

Damn Stephen--good to see you again and talk Indian Motorcycles--I love the hell out of mine--I ride the hell out of it, and would never ride anything else.

But that Stellican Group?
Nope--you can have them.
Yep--going to be interesting times coming up soon in the Indian World.

:p

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 9/27/2007 9:46:40 PM GMT


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 9/27/2007 2:53 PM
Seems many are only talking about what they think without doing any research.

If you did some research you would either change some of your thoughts or show that you are against Indian no matter what they reality of the situation is. If the latter your opinion is null anyway.

Indian has hired many great minds from Harley and from Victory as well as other companies.
Julius is friends with Bloor (Triumph) and gets advice from him.
Indian has spoken with and toured all the big motorcycle producers.
Not only is Indian working on the V-Twin for the Chief but you will see other bikes with new engines. Modern engines.
The Chief will never be a high production bike. It will be the Rolls Royce of the line.
The company will be back on the race track... no, not just in the HD drags. And it will happen soon.
Gilroy had a 5 year plan. All Gilroy was looking for was an IPO
Kings Mountain has a 5, 10 and 15 year plan. They know and are prepared for slow growth.

The first bike, the Chief, will not offer any great surprises. It will be the bike that should have come out of Gilroy in the first place.
The bikes that follow... that is when eyes will open as to how serious this company is.


The most important thing said in that interview is...


Stephen Julius: You know what, by the end of this year you'll see them hitting the streets, that's my forecast. We want to get the engineering right, that's more important to me than what month I hit the streets with the bike, to be really honest. We're estimating the end of this year or the beginning of next year.


It is refreshing to hear a company president who is more worried about getting the product RIGHT before getting it to market by some date. Originally he said it would be out by late fall 07 or early 08 and it seems to have slipped out to spring 08. So they miss the (USA) winter season which is not the best time to sell bikes and they pushed out to the start of the ridding season. If the bike is solid who really cares if it takes a few more months then originally expected.

To bad no one at Gilroy had the balls to think like that. Maybe if they held back a few months and got the Indian engine right before shipping it out they would still be in business.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 9/27/2007 3:11 PM
KC Cheef said...
Latest Press Release?
They are partnering with a high end clothing maker to introduce "ICONIC" Indian Branded apperal.
Exclusively sold through NIEMAN MARCUS.
According to the press release they issued--you will be able to buy all your Indian clothing in Nieman Marcus--right down to the -- and this is a quote from the article--"HARD CORE BIKER GEAR"--Damn folks--I guess I'm a poor biker--never been into a Nieman Marcus, and couldn't afford to buy anything in there anyway.

Oh--before I forget?
This Iconic American Riding Appearal?
Going to be made in China.

Wow!!! Looks like you two have a history.

I will stay out of what I don't know but I think you read something other then the press release.
It says nothing of the product being exclusive to NIEMAN MARCUS or that all the product will be made in China.

Here is the press release for any one who cares to read what was really said.


Indian Press Release said...
Indian Motorcycle® Company is pleased to announce that it has set up a new company named Iconic American Brands, which has been granted the license to develop and distribute a collection of apparel and related products under the Indian Motorcycle brand. Indian Motorcycle Company is America’s oldest and most revered motorcycle brand. This new company is headed by apparel industry veteran Steve Miska. In addition to Indian Motorcycle, the other shareholders of Iconic American Brands include a group of IAB executives and an outside group of investors from the apparel industry. The premier collection is scheduled to debut in January 2008 for Fall 2008 deliveries.

“There is a significant and exciting opportunity in the apparel market today to develop a high end range of quality clothing and accessories exploiting the authentic, heritage, aspirational attributes of this great American motorcycle lifestyle brand ” commented Stephen Julius, Chairman of Indian Motorcycle Company which is about to recommence production of motorcycles from its Kings Mountain, NC, plant.

Indian Motorcycles, which was founded in 1901, has attained a cult-like status among many consumers. The new Indian Motorcycle apparel collection is designed to appeal to the aspirational 35-55+ motorcycle enthusiast who has an interest in fashion and authenticity. The collection will feature performance apparel and premium sportswear which pays tribute to the heritage of the brand. Embodying the freedom of spirit and adventure associated with motorcycling, the Indian Motorcycle apparel collection offers an exciting new lifestyle brand for the motorcycle aficionado and spectator alike.

““I couldn’t be more excited about this venture,” says Mr. Miska. “It’s an opportunity to introduce apparel under a powerful brand name, Indian Motorcycle, a true iconic American brand. Indian has symbolized American motorcycling for over 100 years and we intend to bring that life style and its extraordinary heritage to the forefront in the development of our premium apparel collection”

This is the first venture for Iconic American Brands, whose President and Creative Director, Steve Miska is a seasoned apparel executive with years of experience in the apparel and retail industries. Most recently, Mr. Miska was Creative Director and Co-Founder of Saltaire, a lifestyle brand of luxury sportswear that is a division of Seattle Pacific Industries. Mr. Miska had been with SPI since 1996, where he launched The Nautica Marine Denim Company under license from Nautica International, and revived the once popular 80’s brand Sergio Valente, turning it into one of the leaders in the premium denim market. Mr. Miska had also been the founder of Miska Design Resource, a private label manufacturer and Chief Executive Officer of Generra Sportswear, one of the fashion leaders in the apparel industry. Mr. Miska has held high level creative, design and management positions in wholesale and retail companies throughout his professional career.

Julie Nardi has been named Design Director of the new Indian Motorcycle apparel collection. She will be responsible for all aspects of design from concept development to final production. Ms. Nardi is a highly talented and experienced designer, who most recently was Design Director at Tommy Bahama, where she was responsible for the signature collection of men’s sportswear. Ms. Nardi was with Tommy Bahama since its inception in 1992 and was instrumental in the development and success of the brand. Prior to that, Ms. Nardi was a designer at Generra Sportswear, where she worked with Mr. Miska.

The Indian Motorcycle apparel collection will target luxury specialty department stores, such as Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, & Nordstrom, as well as select upscale specialty stores, Indian Motorcycle stores and their distributors.

About Iconic American Brands

Iconic American Brands is a newly created apparel company based in Seattle, WA, The controlling shareholder of the company is the Indian Motorcycle Company, one of America’s oldest and most revered motorcycle brands. In addition to Indian Motorcycle, the other shareholders of Iconic American Brands include a group of IAB executives and an outside group of investors from the apparel industry. Iconic American Brands first venture is to design, produce and distribute a collection of apparel and related products under the Indian Motorcycle label.

About Stellican

The controlling shareholder of Indian Motorcycle Company is represented by a London based private equity firm, Stellican Limited. The company has an impressive track record of resurrecting classic brands, including, most recently, the successful re-launch of Riva boats in Italy and Chris-Craft® boats which is still controlled by Stellican’s investors today. Chris-Craft was founded in 1874 and is among the oldest boat brands in the United States. “We will apply the same long-term, premium positioning, approach to Indian which my partner, Steve Heese and I have employed successfully at Chris-Craft,” commented Stephen Julius, Chairman of both Indian Motorcycle and Chris-Craft. Steve Heese is President of both companies. “We are confident that we will repeat our success with Indian Motorcycle by remaining true to the rich heritage of this incredible brand and doing things slowly and thoroughly. We are certain that there is an important role for Indian Motorcycle in the future of the American motorcycle market,” added Mr. Julius.

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/27/2007 4:14 PM
Indian Press Release said... "Indian Motorcycle Company is America’s oldest and most revered motorcycle brand..."

 

eyes

Yeah, that sounds like a press release alright.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/27/2007 6:42 PM
WOW!!
Caught me on the EXCLUSIVE thing.
EXCUSE ME--yes the appearal will also be sold at Saks and Nordstrom--that's where I buy all my Motorcyle gear--got to look good don't you know!!
LMFAO!!
And--yes it will be sold through the dealerships if they ever have the good fortune to find a sucker to invest $4 to $5 Million in a dealership that so far in this game would have no motorcycles to sell.
Stellican themselves warn potential dealers that it woud be a long term investment. LMMFAO
I THINK you best do a little more research on where the clothing line will be manufactured. LMFAO Again.
And yes--me and Power Stroke have a "History"
We used to both post quite a bit on another Indian Motorcycle Forum-(The Indian Nazis I refer to)
I'm going to guess there will be a few more new members signing on here in the next few doays--those guys hunt in packs--if you disrespect their Stellican Saviors they'll come after you--me I decided to open my eyes up a little and went with the Doubters.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 9/27/2007 6:48 PM

Power Stroke and Big Chief have the right thoughts here. I don't know what fuels KC but he seems to have some real need for "anger management"! LOL From all the forums out there it seems like a floc of folks are put out because a newly formed business doesn't include them in their planning sessions. Hey, if you hate Indian so much, why would they want to listen? Sell your Indian and put us all out of this misery of constant complaints.

I have two of the Gilroy Chiefs and can tell you just like Big Chief and Power Stroke, in a field of Harleys and Japanese bikes that continue to copy every Harley style, the Chief will draw a crowd of very positive viewers. Its common to have car after car pass by with the "thumbs up" and nice bike comment. As far as Gilroy quality, I don't own a PP 100 so I can only speak of the S&S and the bikes are great, would not change a thing. The PP 100 was the right thing for Gilroy to do, but the wrong people and wrong attitude made it the straw that broke the the camel's back.

Let's get out, ride our bikes and enjoy what we have, and judge the new Indian when it gets here.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/27/2007 6:58 PM
And?
After reading some of the posts at the beginning of this thread?
Yes--Stellican does have a track record of reviving Iconic ( I hate that term but Jewels uses it --A LOT!!)Brands.
What you fail to notice though is that for the most part they find companies that are mismanaged, and kind of floundering.
They invest time and money to jump start a company that for the most part is still there.
Indian?
Well--all they have to start Indian back up with is a name.
And it's a name that has been badly tarnished throughout the years.
Factory--Gone.
Tooling--Gone.
Parts manufacturers and Suppliers--Gone and ain't coming back--screwed too bad by the Gilroy bunch.
Dealer Network that tried to hold on for the past 5 years--Gone.


And--Once again my apologies for stating Nieman Marcus would be the exclusive dealer for the clothing line.
Nordstroms and Saks just totally slipped my mind. LMMFAO a whole damn bunch!!!!!!

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/27/2007 7:12 PM
HeyPappy.
No anger control issues here.
Just an honest opinion.
Sell my cheef?
You got to be kidding right?
I ride the finest motorcycle on the road (My opinion--my motorcycle--I'm going to hope you consider your rides to be the best out there also.)
As for the SUPERIOR quality of your S&S Gilroy?
How many miles you have?
Have you done YOUR RESEARCH on your S&S?
Did you buy yor bikes new?
If you did?
Were you informed of the issues, and were the repairs done?

Let me see--you are also a new member on here?
You seem to jump right to the conclusion that I don't respect Indian Motorcycles, and you hint that I need some anger control management?
Looks like the boys were waiting on me over here--some folks just don't like to her unpleasant truths.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 9/28/2007 3:35 PM

Well I have two Gilroy S&S bikes. The first I bought new in 2000 and it has about 35K on the odometer right now. There have been no problems with the bike other than normal stuff that happens in 7 years. Top end, bottom end, transmission, have never had a wrench applied. The Wife rides it now and has a great time doing so. She just recently claimed her first 1K weekend on the bike. The second bike is the Centennial bike that belonged to Chiefin. Its in pieces at the moment having finished a new paint job and powder coating the wheels, new tires etc.....still no problems. I think Chiefin said the bike had about 12 when he sold it, and we put another 2K since then. I like the S&S motor, it serves my purpose and they have been around and will continue to be for decades. The S&S will out run a PP, both in stock trim an if you ever need parts, they are everywhere. As for research, its called ride and learn.

If I read your post about "did they tell me about all the problems", the answer is no. Of all the riders I have met, no one outside of PP 100 riders have ever mentioned any issues either. Same old story....one guy has a problem and screams so loud you would think every bike out there has the same problem...not true. I've heard the same crap and after 50K on my current FLHT, know its not true. Just a bunch of loud mouth squealers trying to "share their pain". Almost as bad as a guy who claims he has spent $45K on his bike. I would assume $22K for the bike and 23K on repairs/improvements. Yea right. I heard a guy make that claim and followed with "why would anyone lay down $1K for a 2008 Indian"? LOL What a croc!

As far as the ChrisCraft vs Indian, I'm pretty sure that CC was out of business, closed doors. Could be wrong but seems like they were completely gone at one point.
 
Now run back and report to John so he can give you some more bad information to spread. In the mean time, just answer one question: why do you folks hate IMC so much?

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 9/28/2007 6:04 PM
Chris Craft was very much out of business. We have Bayliners ourselves but I do remember just how bad CC had become in the 1990's. CC use to be the industry leader and by the 1990's they were a joke. Part of the reason we have our Bayliner. But our next boat may be a CC if we ever sell the Bayliner.

When CC was bought in the late 90's by the guys who own Indian there was nothing left. The factory was a joke and there was NO TRADEMARK!!! The company that built CC was paying a royalty to the owner of the TM! Stellican was able to buy the name and get it back to being a boat maker and not a TV production house that leased the name to a boat builder. That alone was big news in the boat industry. Had they not pulled that off the company would have been worthless.

When they started building boats they pretty much got rid of any equipment that came with the purchase of the building and brought in the most current state of the art technology for building boats. There were no employees since the company had been shutdown for something like a year or so. During the first couple years they built a very low number of boats and went through a lot of employees until they got the right people who had the right vision to get CC back to where they are now. A leader in the industry and the leader in the segments of the industry the boats compete in.

What is real neat with the CC story is that they are expanding while other boat companies are shutting down facilities.

I agree with some of the other posters in this thread. If anyone can bring back Indian, and I am not sure anyone can, these guys seem to have the money and the balls to do it right. Anyone who wants to see Indian come back should be more then happy that these guys are the ones who got the TM.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/28/2007 8:50 PM
OK--did a little checking around--yep Pappy is one of the boys from the cheerleading squad.
Big Chief--yep--it's agreed then they started out with a factory and tooling-and improved on what EXISTED.
They are BONE PICKERS--they look for companies that are struggling--cut the jugular, and take them over.
Hey Pappy--your Little Chief might out run SOME PPs--but it ain't going to outrun mine.
Dead stop--top end Long haul or any other way.
You been listening to Maldev too long.
And you need to meet up and ride with a Malfa'd PP.
Lets see?
You got a Woods cam right? LMAO!!!
Yep--I can give you a couple of names that will verify--they learned out on the road.
A Malfad PP will run the heart right out of you S&S.
And before it starts?
Nope not bragging--not trying to put your ride down--just stating a fact.
Oh wait--you said stock trim.
Want to run a stock V-Plus--built by Crazy Horse?
You ain't outrunning it either.

Hate IMC?--nope like I said you been brainwashed by your buds for too long--no one I know hates anyone or anything connected to Indian motorcycle--
No one I know has ever threatened anyone--hurt anyone--or even implied they would--you just hang with a dishonest crowd.
Your bud BlackDog(AKA Faggotyliar) just gets a little overanxious, and when he can't think of anything truthful to say a lie works just as good for him.
You have Chiefins old bike?
Like I said--do your homework, and see what was done to it before you bought it, then ask him why he sold it and report back to us with an honest answer.

As for istenig to John White?
Yep--guilty on that one.
I'm going to make a guess here--won't be long before you'lll be listening to him also.

You ride safe--I got better things to do than argue with a yes man who wants to support the California Kool Aid Crew.

Tell those boys hey for me, and tell powerstroke hey also,
Happy Trails
KC

Posted By : HogWild - 9/28/2007 9:55 PM
I'll take the S&S any time. As it turns out I ride with a couple of folks who have an Indian with the S&S engine and they love them. I've also built two customs using the S&S engine and never had one problem with either of them. Never heard much good about the PP. Actually heard more bad things like head gasket issues which has already been brought up.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/29/2007 5:24 AM
That's exactly why I question Power Strokes statement tht the 02-04 Gilroys were built on a solid platform.
Head Gasket issues(that's actually not the gaskets as much as the machining of the heads.)
Hey--do a liittle research, and I think oyu'll find the damn domes in the head aren't even machined out correctly--seems like that 100 is more in the 90 range.)
Of course a lot of the issues with that motor were discovered by John White--all he can get from the "TRUE INDIAN SUPPORTERS is grief)--pinion race issues--oil pump issues-fly wheel issues.
Get those engines right though and no way a SS touches them performance wise.
Hey Pappy--your S&S--was it built by S&S--or is it a Gilroy build?
Hell there is even some aguent out tere wether or not a motor whose parts were supplied by S&S and built by Indian in california are evn really S&S motors.
Come on friend--let us know what you found out on the history of your motor.
I'm going to guess if you are happy with it and it performs well that the issues have already been taken care of.
Has the rocker box issue been taken care of?

Okay--time to get ripped up as not being an Indian Supporter again.
Me?
I just have a problem with bullshit.
Tell it like it is and get it fixed.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 9/30/2007 1:11:47 AM GMT


Posted By : HogWild - 9/30/2007 2:42 AM
KC Cheef said...

Get those engines right though and no way a SS touches them performance wise.


Define performance......

For what it costs to get the PP engine right I could buy an S&S and not worry about it. lol

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/30/2007 5:57 AM
HogWild said...
KC Cheef said...

Get those engines right though and no way a SS touches them performance wise.


Define performance......

For what it costs to get the PP engine right I could buy an S&S and not worry about it. lol


Yep--and you'd still have a 1 of a million S&S.
How much DOES it cost to get an S&S right?
I'll bet you couldn't buy an S&S for what it cost me to get mine right, and it's REALLY RIGHT--ain't that right Power Stroke.
Performance?
S&S--PP--Ultima--Yadda--Yadda--Yadda.
Hell for what it cost to buy an S&S I could buy a used Japper bike and Perform circles around you.
Kind of cracks me up when us V-Twin guys go to talking PERFORMANCE--I think most Jap bike riders just listen to us and laugh their asses off.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 9/30/2007 5:58 AM

KC, you really have some issues you need to deal with. I urge you to get some help before this stuff eats you up.

PS The more you type the more foolish you look. You don't know me or my bikes and you have made so many comments that are just flat guesses and wrong. I don't know who you have been listening to but you should do more homework. And for the S&S, its always been my understanding that the motors were assembled in Gilroyand neither motor has ever needed as much as a simple repair as long as I've had them. Maybe I'm lucky and got the only good one they built. As for John, just another kit bike builder who selected the Gilroy Indian to copy. Nothing wrong with that, just not leadership material. As for a cheerleader, yep, I hope Indian makes a comeback and thrives. GO INDIAN! sisk boom baah!


Post Edited (The Real Pappy) : 9/30/2007 1:02:24 PM GMT


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 9/30/2007 1:02 PM
You can get an S&S EVO 92ci at JP for about $5,200 with ignition.

Sounds like Indian did what all the other American brands do that use S&S. The cost of buying a complete engine from S&S is too expensive for a company that is not a custom shop. A place building one off like West Coast Choppers can get away with the cost of a crate engine but someone like Big Dog just can't. The price of the bikes would be too high. It is much cheaper to buy the parts and pay people to assemble them at 15 bucks an hour on an assembly line.

Plus they save money by not buying all the parts from S&S. If you have not looked into building an engine you really should. The mark up S&S makes on parts it buys from other suppliers is very very high. Smart companies just buy direct or find other suppliers that charge less.

So knowing that Indian built the S&S engines in house is not a surprise at all.

Is John White the wrench who did the work on the KC Cheef and Power Stroke bikes? No disrespect to him but I thought I had read that the Power Plus was just an EVO with a few cosmetic changes? Seems anyone who knows the EVO engine should be able to find the issues and fix them. It's not like the EVO was released without problems.

It's good to hear that the new owners are starting over with the engine. Sometimes it's better to just start over then to go through and repair someone else's mistakes.


The Real Pappy. Your bike is b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l!!! What does the other one look like?

Posted By : HogWild - 9/30/2007 3:32 PM
When you buy a bike that uses an S&S engine the one thing you want to see is the Certificate of Authenticity. Now, if you're dumb enough to buy one without it then you are taking chances on that builder's expertise. Personally I wouldn't touch one that didn't have it. As for the undefined level of performance, here too I think the Big Chief is dreaming. At any rate the attached is what you want to see when buying anything with an S&S engine.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 9/30/2007 3:55 PM
HogWild said... As for the undefined level of performance, here too I think the Big Chief is dreaming. At any rate the attached is what you want to see when buying anything with an S&S engine.
Not sure what you are talking about here. I did not mention performance or did I. I didnt mean to
 
Does that S&S Cert go with engines that are built outside of the S&S factory but by certified builders?

Posted By : HogWild - 9/30/2007 5:58 PM
Big Chief said...
HogWild said...
As for the undefined level of performance, here too I think the Big Chief is dreaming. At any rate the attached is what you want to see when buying anything with an S&S engine.

Not sure what you are talking about here. I did not mention performance or did I. I didn't mean to


Does that S&S Cert go with engines that are built outside of the S&S factory but by certified builders?


Much as you have previously mentioned BC, engines or shall I say engine components can be purchased from a variety of vendors including S&S and then assembled at a lesser production cost at a build shop elsewhere; no cert for this one. This is why folks should be on the look out for the Certificate of Authenticity when purchasing a custom build. Any complete engine purchased from S&S will come with one. Granted, you will pay between 5 and 10K for that engine but you are also guaranteed that engine has been built and tested at S&S and meets their respective standards both in terms of performance and build quality. I happen to like the S&S product and find their quality standards to be very high but then again that's what we're paying for too.

Post Edited (HogWild) : 10/1/2007 1:01:44 AM GMT


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 9/30/2007 6:53 PM
Big Chief said...
You can get an S&S EVO 92ci at JP for about $5,200 with ignition.

Sounds like Indian did what all the other American brands do that use S&S. The cost of buying a complete engine from S&S is too expensive for a company that is not a custom shop. A place building one off like West Coast Choppers can get away with the cost of a crate engine but someone like Big Dog just can't. The price of the bikes would be too high. It is much cheaper to buy the parts and pay people to assemble them at 15 bucks an hour on an assembly line.

Plus they save money by not buying all the parts from S&S. If you have not looked into building an engine you really should. The mark up S&S makes on parts it buys from other suppliers is very very high. Smart companies just buy direct or find other suppliers that charge less.

So knowing that Indian built the S&S engines in house is not a surprise at all.

Is John White the wrench who did the work on the KC Cheef and Power Stroke bikes? No disrespect to him but I thought I had read that the Power Plus was just an EVO with a few cosmetic changes? Seems anyone who knows the EVO engine should be able to find the issues and fix them. It's not like the EVO was released without problems.

It's good to hear that the new owners are starting over with the engine. Sometimes it's better to just start over then to go through and repair someone else's mistakes.


The Real Pappy. Your bike is b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l!!! What does the other one look like?
We are working hard to complete the second bike for Biketoberfest but at this point it doesn't seem likely. The work is just eating my lunch these days. The second bike is flat black with most of the chrome such as forks, bars and nacell powder coated black. The rims are red and wide white walls. I'm going for the chopped 49 Merc look. Added Nitrous that I bought from Charger. Should be hitting about 120HP at 4200 RPM.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/30/2007 9:17 PM
Yep--I'm guessing the PMs have been flying Pappy.
Lets see--do you talk to FaggotyLiar--LR--or Maldev.
Anger issues--here we go again!
I don't have any--I just ride my Cheef.
I'm not angry about anything--hell I bought my bike brand new before the factory shut down--$17.5k off the showroom floor.
When the factory closed down My dealer stuck a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty on it for free--when the motor blew out in it he even paid the shipping to Reno to have the best PP motor rebuilder in the US rebuild it.
I got 45k on the bike now and nothing but miles and smiles--what do I have to be angry about?
You listen to much to the BS the boys over on your site put out.
I've tried to explain to them before--nothing to get personal about--it's a motorcycle--and I've tried to explain to them that to disagree with an opinion is not disrespect--it's freedom of choice and expression--try it sometime instead of being a lemming.
It might surprise you how well I know one of your bikes.
35k on a 7 year old bike that you bought with 12k on it?
HMMMMNNNNN!
Nope--just do a little checking on what was done to your bike BEFORE you got hold of it--I'm thinking by the time you got it it was pretty much right--'cause I know and have ridden with the guy who owned it before you--and I know and have ridden with the guy who wrenched it--hell I belong to their riding club.

Hey Big Chief--yepp an evo--and it can be fixed by anyone.
Just keep on spreading that word around--lets me keep on looking for another one that I can buy cheap.
Just wait until their owners get tired of having it fixed--and fixed--and fixed again prety soon they get fed up and dump them--those are the ones I keep an eye out for.
And -- my bike was not done by John White--it went to Reno Nevada to JAM LTD.
Best PP mechanic there is--PERIOD.
I have 42k on it after the rebuild, and it just seems to keep getting stronger.
And yes--I agree it is cheper to assemble in house.
BUT.
Like I said--do a little research on the ways Gilroy even managed to fuck up an S&S Engine--it'll surprise the hell out of you.
Oh--and as far as the quality of S&S--well there is a little story of a QC issue they had a while back with their-"Balanced flywheel assemblies" freaked

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 10/1/2007 4:22:51 AM GMT


Posted By : aogop - 10/1/2007 2:01 PM
Some quick comments-

At least the new ownership didn't get saddled with the R&D costs for the Powerplus.

If all the new owners do is re-use existing tooling and build plans from the last incarnation, I can't see them making sales. Margin maybe, since they have little R&D but the previous owners didn't sell many to begin with.

My gut says these guys just bought the company "as-is," and expect to continue producing the exact same models as the previous owner only with a little more hype.

Don't get me wrong, I think the previous Chief looks outstanding, but I think it will be a hard sell if they don't attempt any further innovation to show they are a different company than the previous one.


'06 DL1000

Post Edited (aogop) : 10/1/2007 9:05:59 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/1/2007 2:50 PM
Yep--The new model appears t be cming out as an improved '03 or '04.
The R&D on the engine?
I'm guessing, and it's only a guess is they have chosen the wrong fellow to fix the problems--we'll see--but if anyone lives around KM--take a look in the parking lot and see if there are ever any Florida plates in there.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/1/2007 4:50 PM
On TOPIC, I like the article/interview. It appears that INDIAN will go slow and get it right. Only time will tell – and I bet the market responds appropriately. Too little and they’ll get an earful. Anything else will be just right. It will be nice to have another “American” V-twin Cruiser line to choose from – and hopefully admire. I like the looks of the Gilroy bikes and hope they will carry on and improve it. No small task to start a company around a name. It appears they have some very good experience in the motor sports industry tho so I can’t wait to see what they come up with. AND hope they get quality assurance built in right this time.

It appears that the last incarnation of Indian was a rush job. No wonder you have bitter souls like this guy wandering around attacking people and misplacing his loyalties – because he certainly has no love of the brand anymore – too bad. Appears here he worships one guy but won’t take his work to him because he likes another guy better. Plus he has been getting handouts of “free” warranties and who knows what else – and he still vomits bitterness towards people and his brand that he claims. Maybe it speaks more to who he is than anything about the upcoming release of Indian. Hopefully Indian can leave losers like this behind as they try to make a comeback.

KC Cheef said...
Of course a lot of the issues with that motor were discovered by John White--all he can get from the "TRUE INDIAN SUPPORTERS is grief)

KC Cheef said...
And -- my bike was not done by John White--it went to Reno Nevada to JAM LTD.
Best PP mechanic there is--PERIOD.

KC Cheef said...
When the factory closed down My dealer stuck a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty on it for free--when the motor blew out in it he even paid the shipping to Reno to have the best PP motor rebuilder in the US rebuild it.

KC Cheef said...
The R&D on the engine?
I'm guessing, and it's only a guess is they have chosen the wrong fellow to fix the problems--we'll see

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/1/2007 8:04 PM
Well hello FaggotyLiar.
Don't be a stranger--introduce yourself to these nice folks.
And don't be shy about using the new riders name you chose to give yourself--it is embarassing--but since an intellectual like yourself chose it--go on and live with it.
Yep==here we go-
I'm attacking people?
And I'm bitter?
Damn--I crack up every time you come around.
Folks--you are now listening to a 400 pound blubber ass who likes to make up boogey man stories.
He is an officer in an Indian Riders group who I'll just not name--no reason to associate good people with a fat lying accountant asswipe self proclaimed "Indian Intellectuals"
Here we have a 400 pound fat guy who is what? 6'3" or 4 inhes tall who won't even defend his own good name when it's called into question by a 55 year old 5'10"
200 pound old fat guy.(That'd be me)

Uh--us folks who are less "Intellectual" than you have a hard time keeping up with your superior thouht patterns once in a while.
Can you explaing why you chose the 4 comments I made and posted them.

As far as "going to Malfa".
Yep--I did my research, and chose the best--your motor was also built by Malfa after it popped--isn't that right?
Accepting a warrantee offered by the dealer that sold me a $17.5k motorcycle that puked it's guts out wihin 6 months of buying it is--what--A dishonest thing?
Well-you lost me there.
As far as my guess that Stellican may have chosen the wrong fellow to fix the problem with the PP--be hard to offer that guy any support if it is wh I think it is.
Hell--he runs a half ass hop in Florida--has a decline in followers due to his shitty work, and tried to help bail another Incarnation of Indian out of their problem a few years back --remember
Yep--I'm talking about the guy who had two bikes with his rebuilds explode on the way to the Branson Indian Rally a few years ago.
Hell--he was riding alongside one of his own rebuilds when it went completely tits up--'member that you chunky little monky?

You go on back and play with your buds on the Nazi Indian Board--I get tired of having you follow me around and to tell you the truth--I'm thinking these folks would get tired of you really quickly-your style and technique is pretty damn transperant.
Hey--want me to tell them the rest of your story?

Yes folks--loks like the boys are here.
I have DARED blaspheme the almighty Indian Boards--and they don't like it.
Get redy to hear some whopping ass horror stories.
That's generally their method--the truth doesn't work o they make something up.
This Fat Boy was actually running around telling people I was threatening to "Stick A Pencil" in A friend of his neck?
Damn--that's hillarious--but he is an Accountant n his real life when he quits pretending he's Billy Bad ass--but still?
A PENCIL??
There's some humor there!!!!

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/4/2007 5:54 AM

KC, its just really sad to see a person meltdown like you have. This hatred is eating you up man, and life is too short. I don't know what set you off on this hate spat but please calm down and realize how foolish you look to the world.

As for the sling at me, you don't know me and two other things are obvious;

1. You don't read carefully before you post a reply.

2. You like to spout that you know everything but in reality know very little about other people and their bikes.

Just drop this stuff dude and enjoy your ride. Its just a motorcycle, not a religion.


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/4/2007 9:03 AM
As I suspected - seems like a guy wearing out his welcome - and in other places too.

Doesn't know me either - but if he keeps taking potshots at everyone - I'm sure the moderator will sort him out.

Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 10/4/2007 4:27:51 PM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/4/2007 9:27 AM

Well, more to the point - they did not get saddled with the "market research" of the Poweplus - it is a huge hit looks wise with the round heads and all.  Unfortunately, according to a number of press stories - that was the downfall of Gilroy was the mechanics (tolerances) on that motor - word is it is being rebuilt inside - and to meet new tougher EPA/CARB rules.

I think your gut is close - they really purchased the trademark(s) and any "intellectual property" - designs, etc... - along with recall lists etc... and that is all.  They are starting from ground zero - except they have successful "concepts" to pick up - the Chief and Scout. I don't think they acquired much if any of the original tooling. As far as innovation - who knows?  American V-twins - how much different can the niche accept?

They are on record in a number of media outlets as going Chief first - as their Flagship motorcycle.  Then they are thinking of picking up an idea Gilroy was working on - putting a Powerplus into their Scout.  Then they are debating the "racebike" segment - that would be intriguing (remember they looked at Ducati first and passed).

An observation of my own: IF that new redone Powerplus Motor kicks ass in performance and reliability, the bike will sell hot.  These guys seem to be working all the angles to deliver on what was once the pride of the industry.

aogop said...
Some quick comments-

At least the new ownership didn't get saddled with the R&D costs for the Powerplus.

If all the new owners do is re-use existing tooling and build plans from the last incarnation, I can't see them making sales. Margin maybe, since they have little R&D but the previous owners didn't sell many to begin with.

My gut says these guys just bought the company "as-is," and expect to continue producing the exact same models as the previous owner only with a little more hype.

Don't get me wrong, I think the previous Chief looks outstanding, but I think it will be a hard sell if they don't attempt any further innovation to show they are a different company than the previous one.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/7/2007 7:46 AM
Hey Faggoty and Pappy.
No reason for the moderators to sort me out, and your ANGER accusations get really old.
Give me one reason why you think I would be angry?
I'm guessing those tactics won't work on this site--looks to me like opinions and ideas might atually be encouraged on here--open thinking and free expression of thoughts.
Kind of different from your INDIAN MOTORCYCLE FORUM don't you think?
You guys just need to realize that because I disagree doesnt mean I have anger control issues or that I'm uninformed.
As for the uninformed part
Well--we'll see--you 2 just go on hoping for the best from KM--and as a favor?
Could you let us know when they finally bring a bike to market?
You all ride safe--I'm going to be a little busy checking out a new ride coming to the US--Indian Dakota 4--talk about being uninformed?
You guys might just be in for a hell of a surprise

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/7/2007 12:29 PM

You know KC, maybe you aren't angry, sorry to imply that. It just seems that when someone takes a motorcycle thread to the point of name calling, ridicule and misquotes, well, just seemed like anger. Maybe you're like that all the time. As for the Dakota 4, the company was started in 1997 and the first time I saw them was in 2003 at Daytona. I think you can go to Tomoka Indian's old site and see the photos, and thanks to the memory of others, apparently this comany was at Daytona in 2002 and maybe earlier. Of course I know this is a secret scoop you are working on. Anyway what does that matter and who says I'm a follower of KM? I like my S&S Gilroy bikes and don't plan on buying another.

KC, post you email address, I have some pictures to send you.


Post Edited (The Real Pappy) : 10/7/2007 11:00:03 PM GMT


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/8/2007 8:37 PM
When people resort to name-calling and ridiculing others like that, they're pretty much admitting they have no real argument against what ever the topic is.

And since when are people with jobs and education not allowed to ride bikes?

Posted By : Mac_Muz - 10/12/2007 12:27 PM
Is there any need here for a mod? So far as I can tell there may be such a need, but it appears as you all were posting elsewhere, and have brought problems from elsewhere here.

Since I have no history, my hands are tied. If this gets off this thjread and embedded all over the boards something will have to be done to contain and or delete this and perhaps other threads.This is a request to all of you guys who know what this is over, and for which I can't even figure out, to tame it down a notch or two.

The only reason I believe you are here at all is because a writter/room mod somehow brought you here. Since the writter/room mod is in the employ of mcusa, and I am not aquainted with him, I see this as his problem, more than Cadd's and mine.

IF there is anything I can do, or should do, please send me a PM stating what you believe I should do, if anything.

This is in no way any threat, or anything else you may not like. I can't tell where this is going and so am saying so out loud to no one in particular.

I am noting there appears to be problems, of which I am not any part of, and that you guys might work in PM's beween one another, or asking for assistance work out what ever it is making the thread better.

I hope you guys can fix it, as I have no way to understand who, what, where, and when.

Be fair with each other..


So many bikes, and so little memory
Ossipee New Hampster "Eat Seeds or Die"
 
 


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/12/2007 7:11 PM
Understood and thanks

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/14/2007 9:38 AM
No reason to notify anyone as far as I can see.

And?
Pappy--yep you are right.
And you are wrong.
I 've never seen your bike personally, and I don't know you
I DO kow the guy who owned it before you--and I've personally heard his reasons for getting rid of it.
I am NOT puttng your ride down--it is an Indian Motorcycle, and contrary to what you might be led to believe--Indian Motorcycles--their history and the brand is a passion of mine.

BUT!!
The truth (as I see it) is what it is--and Stellican hs no business ownng that brand.
A lot of new things happening since I last got on here--why not fill these folks in a little.
I'm not computer literte to the point of being able to get the link up here so in fairness why don't you post the link to the Sotello interview, and let these folks listen to another side of the Indian saga.
Or?
Would you rather just kep folks from hearing the other side of the Kings Mountain Story?
That seems to be the way of the board you affiliate yourself with.
One question for you --- Are you a GOB?

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/14/2007 9:45 AM
Big Chief said...
When people resort to name-calling and ridiculing others like that, they're pretty much admitting they have no real argument against what ever the topic is.

And since when are people with jobs and education not allowed to ride bikes?


If you are talking about me ridiculing, and name calling?
Nope--FaggotyLiar joined another board I belong to, and chose that riders name and description of himself.
Posted it publicly, and now has to live with it.
Not my doing, and he is a self proclaimed "Intellectual" so what other choice does he leave us with than to accept, and believe what he says about himself.
I will admit though--I have met him a few times, and he does describe himself pretty damn accurately, so why argue?
As far as education, and motorcycles?
The most pure rider I've ever had the pleasure of sharing road with is unable to even write his name--no ignorance there--just a lack of ability to do certain things--he makes up for it in a big time ability to do other things.
So WHAT?
Riders Ride, and Posers pose---always gonna be that way.
Education or lack of has nothing to o with motorcycle riding as far as I can see.

I do love the accusations of my being angry though--cracks me up.
I'm about the happiest damn Indian Rider out there. lol

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 10/14/2007 4:50:33 PM GMT


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/14/2007 10:27 PM
I think you need to go back and read your posts.
Do you even know what a Nazi is? What they did?

Wasn't Sotello one of the guys who tried to bring Indian back the last time? If he has anything bad to say about the new owners would it really suprise you?

Posted By : freebird - 10/15/2007 3:59 PM
I didn't like the childish banter but do think some good points were raised. The new Indian isn't required to cover any Gilroy Indian warranty issues but one has to wonder whether NHTSA/DOT or EPA can force them to honor safety-related or emissions-related recalls.

Here is my prediction:

Indian will sell their retro-styled Chief and then a year or two later offer "custom inspired" bikes (ala Victory) using the same engine and frame in an effort to boost sales. While the retro-styled Chief will always have its own niche market any conventionally-styled cruisers and baggers that Indian offers will simply nibble at the Victory customer base. For a little more competition, O.C.C. now has "production bike line models starting at $29,900" that will likely appeal to the Wild Hog types. O.C.C. has more name recognition for the average American than either Indian or Victory but they will still need to advertise these production bikes and bring them to the MC shows and other venues so people can place orders. Of course there is also Big Dog and the plethora of custom assemblers in every city who are happy to bolt together a bike using the S&S engine. All of these options are viable alternatives for customers who want an American motorcycle that looks different from a Harley but not too different.

I suppose one can define success in a number of different ways but neither Victory nor Indian will ever break the 10,000 unit sales mark selling heavy-weight cruisers and no other models. I think Indian will consistently sell 3000 retro-styled Chiefs annually regardless of how much they spend on advertising. With several differently styled models - retro, conventional, bagger, etc. - they might get to the 6000 unit mark. There is a limit to what ONE engine will get you in any market particularly when we are talking about an air-cooled, low-compression, large-displacement, 45-degree V-Twin. You can shove that big V-Twin in a retro-cruiser, a custom-inspired cruiser, a touring cruiser, and maybe a cafe-racer inspired bike but you are still limited to those people who think a Harley-esque engine is a good thing.

Recently, Victory entered the luxury touring market with the Vision Tour but it should have had a four-cylinder engine. Again, they found themselves limited with ONE engine. The only way I see Indian being a serious contender rather than scrambling to keep their heads above water is to - as somebody mentioned earlier - be an American version of Triumph. Is Indian prepared to build something along the lines of a 675cc Triple and bolt it to an aluminum frame? Personally, I would have been much more impressed with Indian had they announced that their initial offerings would include bikes with modern versions of the longitudinal Indian Four engine and a modern version of the Junior Scout 500cc Twin engine.

Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/16/2007 7:59 AM
freebird said...
I would have been much more impressed with Indian had they announced that their initial offerings would include bikes with modern versions of the longitudinal Indian Four engine and a modern version of the Junior Scout 500cc Twin engine.
Sadly, I don't see any American manufacturer having the stones to challenge the V-twin worship that has become a staple of the American motorcycle market.  It would be very much to their benefit, but I just don't see them doing it.  Motorcycles, in general, are sold on an emotional basis, and for a lot of reasons (including the brilliant marketing of HD) to Americans, "Motorcycle" means "V-twin", period.  shakehead
 
In any case, there's also the issue of timing:  Triumph managed to get their restart at the beginning of the current motorcycle boom.  Victory hit the boom at it's peak.  Motorcycle sales have been at a high level but I think the bubble is going to burst soon.  For one thing, there's a "saturation point" with motorcycles.  There is a finite market for a $15,000 toy, and when that market is full, sales will slow down. 
 
The motorcycle industry could also be a casualty of the mortgage market, both because the easy refinancing put more $$ in people's pockets for discretionary spending on things like motorcycles will be gone, and because as variable interest rates start going up, people are going to start realizing that the $150/month motorcycle payment can help them keep their house when their mortgage note goes up by $300.  The bike goes up for sale so they can keep the house. 
 
Slowing sales will cause a ripple effect in the motorcycle market.  There will be a "dumping" of late model, low mileage bikes onto the used market, which will drive down the prices of new ones.  Anyone who is risking venture capital in that kind of market is either a fool or a gambler, and most likely both. 


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/16/2007 8:02 AM
However, Having said the above, I wonder if the decline of the dollar could benefit HD and Victory? Presumably, imported motorcycles will only get more expensive (though of course, many "Japanese" motorcycles, like my Toyota pickup, are actually built in the US and shouldn't be affected by the declining dollar...) For overseas customers, that Harley could now be quite affordable, which should result in more overseas sales.


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : aogop - 10/16/2007 8:42 AM
I find it interesting that the company will be shipping apparel before a bike hits a showroom floor.


'06 DL1000


Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/16/2007 10:19 AM
aogop said...
I find it interesting that the company will be shipping apparel before a bike hits a showroom floor.

I don't know, I'd guess that OCC and WCC probably make 3x as much from selling "logo" merchandise as they do from selling bikes.  smilewinkgrin


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/16/2007 1:52 PM
aogop said...
I find it interesting that the company will be shipping apparel before a bike hits a showroom floor.

Bikes are supose to be out in the second/third quarter of 2008 and according to the press release the clothing line is to debut in January 2008 for Fall 2008 deliveries. Sounds like they plan to have the clothing at or just after the release.
 
Also from what I have been able to find through press releases and interviews it sounds like the first two bikes will have the Power Plus V-Twin engine in them but they are “working on new engine technology’s for future models”.
 
I do hope for an American bike company that is more then just air cooled V-Twins

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/16/2007 7:07 PM
HEY BIG CHIEF.
YEP--THEY ARE SAYING 2008
Well maybe not exactly saying that.
Now Julius is saying possibly '09.
Again using the excuse that they won't be rushed.
Let's see?
First it was '06---then '07--then '08--now possibly '09.

Hey Pappy!!
Go ahead and post the Sotello interview--it takes a while to listen to it but it does provide an interesting other side of the story.
I'd put it on here but I'm limited to just typing--don't know all the computer tricks.
And?
As far as apologizing for accusing me of anger?
Don't worry about it--you just accepted the bullshit you read on the Public Forum.
Me and you are going to have to meet up one day, and I'm pretty sure we will.
I manage to get around quite a bit, and I'm going to guess I get along with about 95 percent of the Indian Riders I meet up with.
You all ride safe.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/17/2007 8:30 AM
I do remember where they said they were trying to have bikes for sale in late 2007 which very well could have been a 2008 model year. In general, auto makers start the new model year in the prior years late summer or early fall. I do not remember seeing an official release stating a release of bikes at any time earlier then that.

Now they are saying Bikes are suppose to be out in the second/third quarter of 2008. They could very well call those a 2009 model year.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/20/2007 6:56 PM
Hey Big Chief!
Yep--you nailed it.
Look at the IMC website now--they are now accepting deposits on the 2009 Chief. freaked

I figure if I kep making those deposits -- by the time they get around to buiding a motorcycle I'll have mine paid off.
Might be too old to ride it--but it will be paid for :p

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/21/2007 1:57 AM
Not sure what the big deal is.
So the release date has slipped back a few months.
Seems pretty normal for a start up.

Posted By : gatorg - 10/21/2007 5:01 PM
as long as the electrics are changed and a different motor is used, now dont get me wrong there is some good with thunderheart and powerplus100 i just have to rewire too many and change powerplus motors out "pinon gear" there is a market for them out there

Posted By : Doc Crow - 10/21/2007 8:45 PM
I hope that Indian makes it.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/23/2007 9:45 AM
Big Chief said...
Not sure what the big deal is.
So the release date has slipped back a few months.

Seems pretty normal for a start up.


To be honest about the date slipping back?
It has not been a "few months"--it has actully been a few years that it has "slipped back"

I'm going to figure out a way to post the radio interview with Ray Sotello for some of you folks who would like to her another side of the Indian Saga.

Pappy knows exactly what I am referring to--he's llistened to it.
I find it interesting that he won't post the link.
Well--not interesting really--he belongs to a group that would prefer to only let one side of the story be told.
I'll get in touch with someone who can tell me how to get it linked on here.
Some interesting questions and statements in that interview--good food for thought if you take the time to listen to it.

Posted By : Ada Ada - 10/23/2007 12:14 PM
So, there's a new Indian motorcycle coming out?

Posted By : Andy VH - 10/23/2007 9:57 PM
Selling riding clothes even before the bikes are built? Indian is "at it" again. This is the same method used in the past, to build monies for the upcoming claimed production. It is a shame the last go for Indian died out just when it was making some strides. But that is the bane of having non-motorcyclists handling the funds of the company, meaning the banks and stockholders. When they decided to pull the plug, to bad about the market.

Perhaps Indian should go the Tucker route. Sell stock in the company to motorcyclists only. Then the ones making decisions about the future of the endevour will actually have thier hearts and souls in the company.

Consider Buell and Victory. Each had a real motorcyclist leader, and the backing of a corporation that knows and understand the markets being served, and were willing to run in the red until the marque proved its worth. Indian didn't have that, not in the distant or recent past. Unless that is changed I don't see the next Indian surviving either.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
Get MSF trained, check out: http://www.msf-usa.org


Posted By : HogWild - 10/24/2007 5:15 AM
Andy VH said...


Perhaps Indian should go the Tucker route. Sell stock in the company to motorcyclists only. Then the ones making decisions about the future of the endeavor will actually have their hearts and souls in the company.


They are sort of. Tucker sold luggage that was designed to be a perfect fit for the trunk of the car (front end) and before the car had actually hit the assembly line. But this wasn't the real issue with the Tucker. The Tucker car had innovations that would have cost the big three millions to install and they felt threatened. As it turns out, of the 50 original cars built there are 46 still road worthy today. Now that's impressive.....

Posted By : Andy VH - 10/24/2007 6:22 AM
Yeah that is impressive. I have seen and heard an original Tucker and it truly was innovative and forward thinking for its day. Immpressive too because it emphasized what a team can produce when they are truly passionate about the results.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
Get MSF trained, check out: http://www.msf-usa.org


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/24/2007 3:57 PM
Quote "I get along with about 95 percent of the Indian Riders I meet up with"

I would like to see Indian make a true comeback, my only reason to be on this forum. I have two Gilroy bikes and enjoy them.

Post Edited (The Real Pappy) : 10/26/2007 10:22:54 PM GMT


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/24/2007 4:25 PM
Big Chief said...
I do remember where they said they were trying to have bikes for sale in late 2007 which very well could have been a 2008 model year. In general, auto makers start the new model year in the prior years late summer or early fall. I do not remember seeing an official release stating a release of bikes at any time earlier then that.

Now they are saying Bikes are suppose to be out in the second/third quarter of 2008. They could very well call those a 2009 model year.
KC Cheef, where did you see a release from the company that says anything different from what I stated above?
 
They bought the building in summer of 2006 and then started hiring people to design the bike. 
This is the end of summer 2007. Not much past one year latter. The only way to be done by now would be if they bought parts off the shelf like the last group did. And we all know how well they did.
 
No way could the release have slipped by "a few years". That just does not fit the facts of the situation.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/24/2007 6:59 PM

FACTS?freaked

KC don't need no stinkin facts! lol LOLlol

Man this is too easy!yeah


Posted By : Andy VH - 10/24/2007 8:05 PM
I just hope the next Indian produced is not that lame looking bike with the "Look Fabulous" script on the exhaust. i actually felt sorry for that one.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
Get MSF trained, check out: http://www.msf-usa.org


Posted By : jboland - 10/25/2007 9:41 AM
I'll second that. Hopefully, the Cheifs are just the start. I'd like to see either a modern reincarnation of the four cylinders or a Scout that goes the route of the Ducati Sportclassic.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/25/2007 3:13 PM
Pappy.
The nasty little snide comments kind of make you look like what you are on this board.
Keyboard Commando?
Nope--I'll tell you right to your face anything I'll type out on this board.
Hey--ask FaggotyLiar--a member of your esteemed Tribal Council if I won't ask you the same questions face to face I'll ask you on a keyboard.
I did it last year in Branson while there were about 50 of your zombies standing around in the parking lot.
All I got for that effort was a 400 pound bad ass biker boy who stood there stuttering with his lip quivering--couldn't even manage to remember which lie he'd told 5 minutes before.
The rest of your BROTHERHOOD hid out in the shadows with their cameras ready just in case something happened.
What did I get for that effort?
Another lie, and some more rumors about what a MEAN BASTARD I AM.
If Faggoty won't tell you -- ask your good bud ScottDog about the offer I made him in the parking lot of a Branson gas station a few years ago.
Scotty went beyond lip quiver to blubbering like a bitch.

Nope--I'd be the last person in the world who would ever go looking for any kind of trouble--but I'll be the first to let you know I'm not interested in your intimidation or threats.

You guys just need to realize that insults--lies--and intimidation don't work with me.
No reason to be scared of any of you--no reason to be lieing about what I feel is the truth.
And I'm kind of getting the feeling that this board doesn't run with the pack mentality you are used to having support you.
Seems like these folks woud just as soon hear 2 sides of a story

As for the insults as to my size--weight-and age?
Nope--5'10" 245 pounds of shaking blubber--you missed it by 2 inches and 20 pounds.
But hey--anytime you want a go at blubber boy just let me know-I love to ride my Cheef, and I'm willing to meet you half way to anywhere I do love to excersize.



Your tactics work on your Indian Public Site because there are about 100 more of you on there all vyeing for a favored position.
That would be sucking LR off.

Im going to guess you are now stooped so low as to use the tactic of havng this thread locked or deleted--trying to do it by causing problems that the mods will be forced to deal with.
That is an excuse your Indian board uses whenever things don't go their way.
Won't work--I have no beef with you--just want to make it clear to you that I'm not getting bullied.

Hey--I'll ask you one more time nicely----Would you post that link to the Sotllo interview so these nice folks can hear a little more of the story?
I've gotten a few more PMs from members on this site who would REALLY like to hear that.
AND?
Same prediction I've been making since I came onto this board.
The Indian story hasn't even begun to get good yet.
Let's keep these folks up to date on the new happenings.
You want to start or shall I?

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/25/2007 3:41 PM
Its too bad you can't stay on the Indian topic and you keep making everything into personal attacks and trash talk.


The Real Pappy and anyone else who this guy has a problem with. Please just ignore him and keep on topic.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/25/2007 10:02 PM
Big Chief said...
Its too bad you can't stay on the Indian topic and you keep making everything into personal attacks and trash talk.


The Real Pappy and anyone else who this guy has a problem with. Please just ignore him and keep on topic.


Uhh--big chief.
Take a look at who started the trash talk.
And -- for your listening pleasure?
Takes a while to listen to the whole thing--but it is quite interesting.
Hey Pappy--didn't feel like posting this for the folks on here did you?
And?
This is only a taste of things to come.
Hey Big Chief--nice try--yep Sotello was involved in the Gilroy years.
Sotello is a pretty well respected figure in a bikers world.
He's one of a few who has kind of hinted at a few hings that took place.
Storms a coming.
Lot more facts out there that are going to be public shortly.
Hell even Stellicans ressurection of CC isn't what they lead folks to believe.
Lot of new info coming out everyday.

If I figured out how to do this right--take a listen and think about what you are hearing.
Interesting points and questions here.

http://www.bikernetshop.com/2007/03/25/rey-sotelo-ex-indian-president/

If that doesn't work there is probably someone on here who would be interested enough in some facts that they will fix it to play.
Ride Safe Big Chief.[url]

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/25/2007 10:28 PM
Big Chief said...
Big Chief said...

I do remember where they said they were trying to have bikes for sale in late 2007 which very well could have been a 2008 model year. In general, auto makers start the new model year in the prior years late summer or early fall. I do not remember seeing an official release stating a release of bikes at any time earlier then that.

Now they are saying Bikes are suppose to be out in the second/third quarter of 2008. They could very well call those a 2009 model year.
KC Cheef, where did you see a release from the company that says anything different from what I stated above?


They bought the building in summer of 2006 and then started hiring people to design the bike.

This is the end of summer 2007. Not much past one year latter. The only way to be done by now would be if they bought parts off the shelf like the last group did. And we all know how well they did.



No way could the release have slipped by "a few years". That just does not fit the facts of the situation.


Nope--doesn't make much sense does it?
The deposit has changed from an 07 to an 08 to an 09.
Is 3 years considered to be a few years?
If it isn't forgive me--I'd consider it to be.

Your statement that they "bought' a building in KM?
A little fact there--but it would be interesting to know why you leave out the details of their "purchase"
And it would enlighten you to kind of do a little asking around to see just how well their effort their has gone.
How many locals have they hired?
If they are getting an 09 out--seems like there would be an army of grunts ready to build the bikes.
Fact is--check with KM city council, and see how many locals have been hired.

Fact is they introduced their first Chief as the Moet Chief.
Finer things in life and all that.
Fact is that should give you some kind of idea how clueless they are.

Fact is they've announced their REAL BIKER GEAR will be sold in upscale clothing stores.
Fact is that's embarrasing as hell to most riders--probably OK with you though.

Fact is they showed up in Branson Mo. this past summer at a Gilroy Indian Rally.
Fact is no one associated with the company that showed up could ride a motorcycle.
Fact is they had to be hauled around bitch--except for Julius --he rode in a sidecar.
The PR woman they brought along couldn't even tell a Harley from an Indian--she rode bitch on a Harley.
Not a damn thing wrong with a Harley but you'd think Indians PR person would want to be on an Indian at an Indian rally.
Doesn't matter though--Fact is she was let go a few months back because their was nothing for her to do at that stage of the companies growth??

CC--well there is even some new info on that famous revival they pulled off.

Like I said--all kinds of new enlightening info out there if you want to listen.

I heard someone out there mention an Indian 4--well it;s already here--look up DAKOTA 4---that might be a machine to watch for a while.
Yep--it's been around--but it just might be getting some new wings under it.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/26/2007 10:24 AM
KC Cheef said...
Big Chief said...
Big Chief said...

I do remember where they said they were trying to have bikes for sale in late 2007 which very well could have been a 2008 model year. In general, auto makers start the new model year in the prior years late summer or early fall. I do not remember seeing an official release stating a release of bikes at any time earlier then that.

Now they are saying Bikes are suppose to be out in the second/third quarter of 2008. They could very well call those a 2009 model year.
KC Cheef, where did you see a release from the company that says anything different from what I stated above?


They bought the building in summer of 2006 and then started hiring people to design the bike.

This is the end of summer 2007. Not much past one year latter. The only way to be done by now would be if they bought parts off the shelf like the last group did. And we all know how well they did.



No way could the release have slipped by "a few years". That just does not fit the facts of the situation.


Nope--doesn't make much sense does it?
The deposit has changed from an 07 to an 08 to an 09.
Is 3 years considered to be a few years?
If it isn't forgive me--I'd consider it to be.

Your statement that they "bought' a building in KM?
A little fact there--but it would be interesting to know why you leave out the details of their "purchase"
And it would enlighten you to kind of do a little asking around to see just how well their effort their has gone.
How many locals have they hired?
If they are getting an 09 out--seems like there would be an army of grunts ready to build the bikes.
Fact is--check with KM city council, and see how many locals have been hired.

Fact is they introduced their first Chief as the Moet Chief.
Finer things in life and all that.
Fact is that should give you some kind of idea how clueless they are.

Fact is they've announced their REAL BIKER GEAR will be sold in upscale clothing stores.
Fact is that's embarrasing as hell to most riders--probably OK with you though.

Fact is they showed up in Branson Mo. this past summer at a Gilroy Indian Rally.
Fact is no one associated with the company that showed up could ride a motorcycle.
Fact is they had to be hauled around bitch--except for Julius --he rode in a sidecar.
The PR woman they brought along couldn't even tell a Harley from an Indian--she rode bitch on a Harley.
Not a damn thing wrong with a Harley but you'd think Indians PR person would want to be on an Indian at an Indian rally.
Doesn't matter though--Fact is she was let go a few months back because their was nothing for her to do at that stage of the companies growth??

CC--well there is even some new info on that famous revival they pulled off.

Like I said--all kinds of new enlightening info out there if you want to listen.

I heard someone out there mention an Indian 4--well it;s already here--look up DAKOTA 4---that might be a machine to watch for a while.
Yep--it's been around--but it just might be getting some new wings under it.
"The deposit has changed from an 07 to an 08 to an 09.
Is 3 years considered to be a few years?
If it isn't forgive me--I'd consider it to be."
It is not 3 years. Again, you are not making a seperation between model years and actual production years.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/26/2007 11:50 AM
I am making a point that they have themselves changed the release date 3 times in their request for a deposit.
Damn--talk about being a follower.
07--to 08--to 09 dude that's their change not mine-YOU are the one speculating what they mean--I'm the one TELLING you what the revisions to their website have been.
Me--I guess I think too simply.
If they take a $1000 deposit on what they are saying is a 2007 Chief I expect to recieve a 2007 Chief.
If they ask for a deposit on a 2008 Chief I expect to recieve a 2008 Chief.
If they call it a 2009 I expect to recieve a 2009.
Kind of simple way to look at it don't you think?
Oh--here's an interesting article from the Seattle Times.
Pretty damn current--yesterday I think--but don't hold me to that.
Hey BigChief--how many $2500 motorcycle jackets do you have hanging in your closet?

You really need to get out there and do a little research--don't worry though we're going to help you along.
Damn--these guys are just totally clueless and out of touch with any kind of idea as to who their TARGET should be.
PREV 1 of 3 NEXT


ERIKA SCHULTZ / THE SEATTLE TIMES
Steve Miska, president of Iconic American Brands in Seattle, holds his 1948 Indian Motorcycle model at his South Lake Union office. He is creating a clothing line for the reintroduction of the motorcycle brand next year.
Steve Miska created a refined, casual look for young men to wear to work in the 1980s as the founder of Generra Sportswear. Now, the longtime Seattle clothing designer wants to give motorcyclists a different look than sleeveless T's and faded jeans.

As president of Iconic American Brands, Miska is creating a new clothing line to help reintroduce the Indian motorcycle brand next year for a London private-equity firm that's taking aim at Harley-Davidson.

Miska said the Indian-logoed line will be "comfortable, yet fashionable," favoring premium denim and leather with "that worn, vintage look, just not overdone."

His success largely will depend on whether Indian motorcycles can make a comeback.

Created in 1901 in Springfield, Mass., Indian laid claim to nearly 50 percent of the U.S. motorcycle market before turning its attention to producing vehicles for the American and French armed forces during World War II. The company faltered in the early 1950s and went dormant for 45 years. Several investor groups tried to revive it in the late 1990s, but the company declared bankruptcy in 2003.

A year later, Stellican of London, which specializes in taking over financially distressed companies, bought the Indian trademarks. It is now on track to begin producing Indian motorcycles at a manufacturing plant near Charlotte, N.C., by mid-2008.

Robert Passikoff, who advises retailers on customer loyalty as president of Brand Keys in New York, said he thinks Indian will benefit from being "typically American, and a little bit different. It's not a Suzuki or a Harley."

Miska started Generra Sportswear in 1980 for young men wanting an affordable collection of casual work clothes — he gave them twill pants and knit tops. In the mid-1990s, Miska joined Seattle Pacific Industries, where he oversaw such brands as Nautica and Sergio Valente.

He began talking with Stellican founder Stephen Julius in June about a clothing line for Indian motorcycles. But before going ahead, he visited a local Chris-Craft boat dealership.

Stellican bought Chris-Craft out of bankruptcy in 2001 and has since increased its annual production to more than 750 boats. "If he brought that back, I felt very comfortable he could do the same with Indian," Miska said.

Miska, whose small staff in South Lake Union includes designer Julie Nardi, previously of Tommy Bahama, envisions Indian apparel being sold at upscale department stores, as well as motorcycle dealerships nationwide. His target buyer is a man between 35 and 55 with an annual income above $150,000 — "doctors, lawyers and Microsoft executives."

"There are literally millions of professionals who are weekend bikers, and they're not riding in sleeveless T-shirts," he said. "They want quality fashion, and we want to give them that."

Apparently, motorcycle chic doesn't come cheap.

Miska predicts jeans will sell from $125 to $250, sweaters for more than $100, and leather jackets for up to $2,500.

— Amy Martinez

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 10/26/2007 7:01:29 PM GMT


Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/26/2007 1:30 PM
I can't say I'm thrilled about the apparent pissing contest that's found its way here from another forum, but I have to say that KC Cheef is making some good points.

Everything about this "revival" points to a company that sees motorcycles as just another consumer product that can be branded and sold like potato chips. The problem is that potato chips don't cost $20k. Nobody makes a $20k purchase on impulse or based on advertising only (or, a better way to say that would be that not enough people make a $20k purchase on impulse to keep a manufacturer in business.)

I said it earlier and I'll say it again: A famous name isn't enough. The motorcycle brand graveyard is filled with people who thought that all they needed was a classic name and a cool design: Excelsior, Norton, Indian.

Nobody has yet explained how this "new" Indian will be any better (or for that matter any different) than any of the modern Harleys, Victory's or metric cruisers.  People who don't know anything about motorcycles may ooh and aaah over the Indian name (those who don't know how much the name has been sullied over the past 50 years) but are there enough hardcore bikers out there willing to trade in their Harleys on an unknown quantity to keep such a venture in business?  I just don't think so. 


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 

Post Edited (martinjmpr) : 10/26/2007 8:33:15 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/26/2007 3:20 PM
Martin.
Thanks for the bit of support, and accept my apologies for causing a commotion.
Only reason I am so damn vehement on this subject is because I DO know a few facts, and the facts I know prevent me from ever showing any kind of support to the Stellican Corporation.
I will correct your assumption that the new Indians will be $20 range--more into the high $20k to $30k range.
Dealerships are being peddaled as stand alone--near a major hiway--plan to invest $4 Million plus to start.
Kind of a Harley type arrangement--but you'd be doing it with a brand that has been damaged in the past, and continues to be damaged today.
I'm thinking I'd want to be seeing a motorcycle before I'd consider a dealership investment--even then I'd be wondering how I could justify a $4 million risk with only 1 motorcycle in the line up.
Takes a while to listen to it--but that bikernet piece is certainly a beginning if you want to hear some of the questions being raised.

Hey Big Chief--I'll make you a deal--I'll tone it down if you tone it down.
No sense in name calling, and you and Pappy should realize by now that I don't just get run off.
How about if you present your facts in a friendly way, and I'll do the same.
I'm thinking there are folks on here who are interested in the doings of Indian Motorcycle.
And I'm thinking the Indian name still carries its magic--55 years later, and people still worship the legacy.
No sense in carrying our personal problems on here--lets just present our sides of a story.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/26/2007 3:38 PM
KC Cheef said...

Hey Big Chief--I'll make you a deal--I'll tone it down if you tone it down.
No sense in name calling, and you and Pappy should realize by now that I don't just get run off.
How about if you present your facts in a friendly way, and I'll do the same.
You have to be kidding.
 
You are asking me to tone it down? Tone what down? Show me.
And for you of all people to say "No sense in name calling" is laughable.
 
Do you ever read what you write?
 

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/26/2007 7:19 PM
That worked about as well as I expected it to.
Looks like the way to do this is to ignore your comments, and just occasionally post a few facts.
I will post them in pure form just to keep you happy.

Name calling?
Show me where--excepting where I responded to a taunt.
If you refer to me using the riders name FaggotyLiar--you are mistaken.
FaggotyLiar chose to sign onto another Indian sight under that riders name--hey if it suits him to go by that name who am I to argue?
Hey--carry on-I'll just post a few little goodies as I feel the need.

Did you take the time to listen to the Sotello interview?
What is your opinion on the new clothing line?

Want to see some actual photographs of Stephen Julius standing in a sidecar?
Want to see some pics of Karin Moss--his PR person riding bitch on a Harley?
Want to see artist renderings of the Moet Chief and the press release that accompanied it?
Hey--lets tell the folks the story behind Stellicans debut at the Concours event in Cali.
Outdooor presentation of Elvis Presley starring in "The Roughneck"
No one could figure out why they chose to feature that movie on a blowup screen outdoors in 40 degree temperatures for the audiences viewing pleasure while they set in golf carts and froze to death but I'm guessing it was a well planned and thought out event.
It must have been--it was their first attempt at reintroducing Indian Motorcycles.
Or?
How about the announcement in a few biker rags out Sturgis this past year?
You know--the announcement that they were giving away an 08 Chief at the event?
RUH-ROH--no motorcycle to give away.
Or how about Indian Night at Daytona last year?
I saw it advertised all over town on posters--couldn't wait to go check out the rides--got there and guess what?
No Indian Motorcycles--or Indian Reps--or anything to do with Indian Motorcycles except the one I was riding.
Kind of cool though--it was to be held at one of the most well known biker bars in Daytona--by the time I got their the place was packed--lucky for me the guy in carge of parking did me the honor of putting my Cheef right at the entrance to the joint.
I do have the pics.

To be totally fair?
I am also hearing some pretty well grounded rumors that there are Indian Motorcycle prototypes being seen around KM North Carolina.
The info I'm getting is pretty much Gilroy bikes with some cosmetic changes.
Hey Big Chief--come on--what's your honest opinion on the Sotello interview.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/26/2007 9:00 PM
KC Cheef said...
That worked about as well as I expected it to.
Looks like the way to do this is to ignore your comments, and just occasionally post a few facts.

As well as you expected?

I will ask you again, tone what down? Show me. Show me the post that I need to tone down.

For you to say "No sense in name calling" has to be a joke. Go back and read your posts.

You don't want to have a discussion you want a monologue. You think people must either agree with you or they are attacking you. People are allowed to have an opinion different then you no matter how you feel.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/26/2007 10:23 PM
Big Chief said...
KC Cheef said...

That worked about as well as I expected it to.
Looks like the way to do this is to ignore your comments, and just occasionally post a few facts.

As well as you expected?

I will ask you again, tone what down? Show me. Show me the post that I need to tone down.

For you to say "No sense in name calling" has to be a joke. Go back and read your posts.

You don't want to have a discussion you want a monologue. You think people must either agree with you or they are attacking you. People are allowed to have an opinion different then you no matter how you feel.


Deep Breaths, and pleasant thoughts big guy.
Lets put all that behind us and just stick to Indian Motorcycle news.
Would you like to see a few more interesting little items?
Well--hold onto your horses--REALLY GOOD stuff headed your way.
The whole Indian Saga from about '95 on is worth a lifetime of looking at.
From '03 when they closed down to now is REALLY INTERESTING.
A lot of the story is yet to be told--but it's coming.
You keep avoiding giving us your opinion on the Sotello interview.
Pretty interesting don't you think?
A lot of questions he brings up in that interview are in the process of being answered right now.

Nope--I don't feel attacked whenI am disagreed with.
I do feel attacked when I'm called a wiggly little fat guy or whatever it was I was called.

I do enjoy your input, and I WILL tone it down.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/27/2007 8:24 AM
Big Chief, give us a call some time. Lucky and I want to meet up.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/28/2007 7:31 AM
Hey Folks--there is life in Kings Mountain.
Here's a letter they sent to an Indian Motorcycle fan and supporter.
Read it carefully, and you'll see some indication as to why there are quite a few folks questioning the status of their '09 claims.

Yes--they have contacted a number of suppliers to Gilroy.( Not too many warm receptions from what I'm hearing)
And Yes they have contacted a number of the Old Springfield supporting companies.( I'll leave the nature of that for later--from what I'm hearing though--Stellican better figure out what it is they own, and what it is the suppliers to Springfield bikes have provided for the pat 40 or so years.)


Thanks for the message and your observations. Obviously, at this point
in our development at Kings Mountain, there are many details that we are
not inclined to talk about regarding our new products or production
plans. However, be certain that we are deeply driven to produce our
Indian Motorcycles with quality as the "guiding light".

I would like to communicate the following; Indian Motorcycle has a
infinite sense of the miss-steps of Gilroy and are unfalteringly
sensitive as a company, to the wants and needs of the Gilroy owners. We
communicate regularly as staff members to consider all realistic
possibilities to make our new products fit or be able to retrofit early
models. To clarify what we bought out of the Gilroy company; we are the
owners of the intellectual property (IP) from the previous company and
little else. Most of all the tooling and fixtures were either sold,
destroyed, or belong to an outside vender. Some of the venders that
still have tooling, have not maintained them and left them in the
weather for the last 49 months. This just begins to touch on some of the
supply chain issues to resolve.

We must also look at the business case to produce old / new parts...

One new/old part;

Concept and rendering would run about $5,000
Engineering for tooling would run about $5,000
Tooling for one sheet metal part runs about $60,000
Cost per part $400 @1500 part minimum buy $600,000
Packaging for retail $3.00 @1500 $4,500

Total (not counting marketing and distribution) $674,500

Divide by 1500 to find cost per part $449.66
Typical wholesale profit margin x30% $134.89

Cost to a dealer or retailer $584.55
Typical retailer profit margin x30% $175.36

Retail price to end user $759.91

This is an overview of what it takes to design/build one part. Lots of
assumptions here, but this was just an exercise to help you understand
the real cost involved in producing a single random part. We must also
understand that a motorcycle of our style / technology has in excess of
1100 specific parts. It is not nearly as simplistic as having the new
workers toss together a few parts... Another key point is the 1500 part
volume; we must be able to sell this number of parts in a reasonable
time to recover the investment, if not, the cost of money must be
weighted and the costs would escalate throughout the matrix.

I know this is a long answer to what seems like a simple issue, but we
have a total understanding of the entire structure and are making our
decisions with the consideration of all the requisite factors. Again, we
have great respect for all of the Indian fans out there and are
obligated to do what we can to provide information, technical data, and
as many parts as we can. It is going to be a fun and interesting ride...

Warmest regards,
Mark

Mark Moses
Customer Service and Warranty Lead
116 Battleground Road - Kings Mountain, NC 28086
phone: (704) 937-4028 fax: (704) 937-7776
mmoses@indianmotorcycle.com www.indianmotorcycle.com

"Refuse to be average. There are never any traffic jams on the extra
mile!"


Funny thing is?
A lot of the parts he refers to?
The tooling is still available--they just have no clue where to look for it.
Hell--I'm just a COUNTRY BOY, and I could point them in the direction of finding a lot of what they want and need.
Marks quote for tooling costs?
BULLSHIT!!!!

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/28/2007 10:18 AM
Another interesting point on their dealership requirements?
For anyone who cares to explore the FACTS!!!
They are requiring the dealerships to be bigger than their manufacturing facility in Kings Mountain is.
Isn't there something like--WRONG about that?

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/28/2007 12:10 PM
KC Cheef said...
Another interesting point on their dealership requirements?
For anyone who cares to explore the FACTS!!!
They are requiring the dealerships to be bigger than their manufacturing facility in Kings Mountain is.
Isn't there something like--WRONG about that?

So you say they are requiring their dealerships to be 40,000 sqft? That does seem kind of big. It also seems made up.

 

The site they bought use to be the old International paper building in Cleveland County North Carolina, 30 some odd miles west of downtown Charlotte in Kings Mountain. The property is 11 acres and has a current building of 40,000 square foot. On that size property they should be able to expand the building up to about 125,000 square feet if the need arises. They should do well on this property for many years.

 

All the info is available through the county. It’s public record.

 

And on the Indian web site they state the following

 

The necessary equity and debt capital to fund construction and fit out of a 10,000 square foot retail store and service department.

 

 

 

Where do you get your facts? And do you ever check them?


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/28/2007 4:22 PM
UHHH!!
You better do some checking on that.
Other folks have--and other folks are still doing some research.
Yep--check the records.
Did they PURCHASE the building?
Or do you just go on believing what you are told.

And?
You still haven't given your expert opinion on the Sotello interview.
That my friend is some interesting listening.
And--lot more of it coming down the pike.

Hey--have you heard about the mules that are being seen around KM?
Rumor I hear is that excepting a few minor details they are pretty much Gilroy bikes.
Kind of a long R&D program to clone a 4 year old scooter don't you think?

I love the dealership requirements--$4 Mill?
That's more than Stellican paid for the name.
I just love these guys!!!!

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 10/28/2007 11:25:54 PM GMT


Posted By : Ada Ada - 10/28/2007 7:39 PM
I can't hardly read what you guys are saying.  could  you use number 3 size typeset, please?  Some people like me can't read small print so good.
 
I sort of sounds like a good discussion, but I'm not sure.

Posted By : HogWild - 10/28/2007 7:48 PM
Has anyone noticed this thread runs pretty much like the Indian itself? Dang bike won't die and neither is this thread.... lol lol

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/29/2007 7:19 AM
Indian Motorcycle Company seeks to establish 50 free-standing, exclusive Indian dealerships in the top markets in the USA. These stores will sell Indian motorcycles, parts, accessories, apparel and general merchandise. Key criteria required:

* The necessary equity and debt capital to fund construction and fit out of a 10,000 square foot retail store and service department. These costs are estimated at approximately $2.0 million and exclude land costs

* Store location on an interstate and built to Indian's design

* A minimum of $1.0 million of equity and debt capital to fund operating expenses and working capital, in particular inventory for motorcycles, parts, accessories and apparel

* A seasoned motorcycle store General Manager and Indian Motorcycle enthusiast, supported by a qualified team

* Willingness to build a business for the long term and to participate in the best new power sport opportunity in the market

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/29/2007 8:32 AM
KC Cheef said...
UHHH!!
You better do some checking on that.
Other folks have--and other folks are still doing some research.
Yep--check the records.
Did they PURCHASE the building?
Or do you just go on believing what you are told.
Purchase / lease. Whatever, they are there.
Have you seen the building? I have been there, not since Indian got it but before. There is a big difference between 10,000 and 40,000 sqft; enough that you can see it. That is not a 10,000 sqft building. It is many times larger. You can say different all you want but all it does is call into question your other "facts".
 

As far as the $4 MIL goes, not sure what the concern is.
It is not a franchise fee. It is not a fee at all.
It is ESTIMATED costs that Indian has come up with for setting up a new store in one of the top 50 markets and on a interstate. That cost will vary greatly from one area to another.
4 MIL is an estimate to “fund construction and fit out of a 10,000 square foot retail store and service department” and “fund operating expenses and working capital, in particular inventory for motorcycles, parts, accessories and apparel”
Indian is not a construction company nor do they own the land where they want the stores. They also do not sell the fixtures to “fit out” the store. Indian is not selling the tools and equipment needed in a service department. None of that money is going to Indian.
The only money that would go to Indian would be when the store owner stocks the store with Indian product.
I am sure that if a dealer is able to meet the requirements for less than the 4 MIL Indian would not tell them they must spend more until they spend 4 MIL

I would expect the bike to be like the bike out of Gilroy. It would be dumb to come out with something too different right out of the gate.

As far as Indian goes, you are the only one here with the expert opinion. Seems you know everything there is to know about Indian. Ray's interview was what I expected. Even better that he was interviewed by a person who he had on his payroll. Softball questions and expected 20/20 hindsight and even better foresight.

It was almost as exciting as seeing Karl Rove interview Georg Bush.

Post Edited (Big Chief) : 10/29/2007 4:37:29 PM GMT


Posted By : Mac_Muz - 10/29/2007 2:58 PM
Well this is ammusing.. KC I am in for 45 pounds anyway. I tip the scales at 145, so another 45 would make me 190! Perhaps with that I could be somebody? LOL

Yeah we would like both sides, but sorting out the facts from personal issues is a rugged task...

What was in Branson? Is that Branson Missourii? All I know about that town is there is a pizza bar that can't be beat..


So many bikes, and so little memory
Ossipee New Hampster "Eat Seeds or Die"
 
 


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/29/2007 3:09 PM
I wondered about what Branson was about to.
So I googled Branson Indian Motorcycle and after a little looking around this is what I found

http://www.huntersfriendresort.com/irip04.htm
http://www.huntersfriendresort.com/irip05.htm
http://www.huntersfriendresort.com/irip06.htm
http://www.huntersfriendresort.com/irip07.htm

Seems a group called the Iron Indian Riders (www.ironindian.com) has an event in Branson every year

Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/29/2007 3:30 PM
Okay, so Indian is saying it will cost $4mil to set up the store and get it running (does this include the salaries for the first year or so?) I don't know anything about motorcycle franchising, so I'm curious, how does this compare to someone who wants to open, say a Honda or an HD dealership? More or less? I think that will be good to know because I can't imagine that sales volumes of the new Indian would be anything close to what a major manufacturer would get, so if $4mil is significantly higher than what another dealer would need to set himself up then I don't understand how the business venture can succeed.

$4 million - that's 160 $25,000 motorcycles right there, and that's just to break even. I don't know how many motorcycles a typical HD dealership sells, maybe someone here who is in "the biz" can shed some light on how long it takes to sell 160 high priced bikes.

Obviously, they have lots of other stuff to sell, too, so that maybe brings down the number of bikes they have to sell to break even, but now you're talking about fashion, and fashion is subject to wild fluctuations.

I used to be of the opinion that people smarter than me have already figured all this stuff out, but I'm old enough now that I don't have any illusions any more.


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/29/2007 6:33 PM
Hey Martin.
Other stuff to sell?
Nope not right now.
Not even a coffee mug, or T-Shirt for the time being.
Yep--that's kind of a cool way to look at it.
What do you reckon the chances are of selling a $25k motorcycle every other day for "The Long Term?" lol
Especially when you are going to be limited to one style for the time being.

WOW Big Chief--you are so clever--kind of gave you a chance to advertise your group there didn't it?
IIRA sponsored Indian Motorcycle every year in Branson.
It made such an impression on the local newspaper last year that the reporter referred to the Group as the IRON MAIDENS!!--That's some funny shit right there!!!
I got to admit--it is the largest gathering of Gilroy bikes you'll ever see.
It is promoted as a rocking chair rally.
No rides sponsored by the IIRA--that group is mostly there to set around and admire each others rides.
One group did ride pretty frequently--but they aren't returning there this year.

Hey big chief--if they are coming out with a Gilroy bike?
What's the holdup?
I'll agree with you though--that's what it'll be--warmed up Gilroy.
New paint, and a little different bling.
Maybe a little more zing in the PP.
I'm thinking not though--I'm thinking they chose the wrong boy to save that motor.
If he's who I think he is--he couldn't do it for Gilroy ,and he'll fail again if his rebuilds are any indication of what he plans to do to the KM engine.

I think I about got you pegged--you gonna have a party in the barn in a few weeks?
Mind if I ride out and say hey to some old friends?
As far as KM goes?
Yep--been there!! scool
Not impressed with a factory with 10 cars setting in the parking lot.
How many were there last time you rode by?
Do you reckon it to be enough to man a motorcycle manufacturing facility that will have bikes out in less than a year?

Hey Big Chief.
The interview between Sotello and Branscome?
Hold onto your Indian Pony--gonna be a lot more interesting info than that coming along--just be patient. :p

Hey Mac.
I don't know--145 is kind of small for an Indian Chief rider.
Most of them I ever met go 220 or better.
Hell some of us are even over 5'6" but not that many.
And FaggotyLiar?
Well he's such a lard ass other Indian riders take bets as to his actual weight.
I'm guessing over 400 but he's denied that!
Spy photo below--yes--he also rides a sport bike--and a Wing--and a Indian Chief.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 10/30/2007 1:36:32 AM GMT


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/29/2007 10:33 PM
KC Cheef said...
 
WOW Big Chief--you are so clever--kind of gave you a chance to advertise your group there didn't it?
IIRA sponsored Indian Motorcycle every year in Branson.
It made such an impression on the local newspaper last year that the reporter referred to the Group as the IRON MAIDENS!!--That's some funny shit right there!!!
I got to admit--it is the largest gathering of Gilroy bikes you'll ever see.
It is promoted as a rocking chair rally.
No rides sponsored by the IIRA--that group is mostly there to set around and admire each others rides.
One group did ride pretty frequently--but they aren't returning there this year.

Hey big chief--if they are coming out with a Gilroy bike?
What's the holdup?
I'll agree with you though--that's what it'll be--warmed up Gilroy.
New paint, and a little different bling.
Maybe a little more zing in the PP.
I'm thinking not though--I'm thinking they chose the wrong boy to save that motor.
If he's who I think he is--he couldn't do it for Gilroy ,and he'll fail again if his rebuilds are any indication of what he plans to do to the KM engine.
 
Not impressed with a factory with 10 cars setting in the parking lot.
How many were there last time you rode by?
Do you reckon it to be enough to man a motorcycle manufacturing facility that will have bikes out in less than a year?

Hey Big Chief.
The interview between Sotello and Branscome?
Hold onto your Indian Pony--gonna be a lot more interesting info than that coming along--just be patient.
Don't know who you think I am but you are wrong. I don't own a barn and I never claimed to have been to that building since IP left. I do not live in the area.

I also know nothing other than what I read about that event and the group. Not sure why you always go so far off topic. You look for things that just are not there.

Are you still standing behind your fact of the building being 10,000 sqft or less? If you were there you know you are wrong.

What problem do you have with Nick Glaja? He seemed to do a lot of good at Victory and he was at Harley just prior to Indian hiring him. Seems to be a pretty well respect guy in the industry.

This is from Motorcycle Product News, an industry newspaper

Indian's VP of engineering Nick Glaja's career spans 27 years. He has worked for some of the giants in the motorcycle world, including his most recent stint serving as the principal engineer of powertrain technology at Harley-Davidson. Prior to that, he was powertrain group manager at Victory Motorcycles. "Being involved with the rebirth of Indian Motorcycle is the most exciting and challenging opportunity of my career," says Glaja. "Everything we are going to build in the future is going to grow from a sound engineering foundation, and my first goal is to provide just that. Only after that can we deliver the products deserving to carry the Indian Motorcycle brand."


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/30/2007 8:00 AM
Nick Glaja?
I got no problem with him at all.
There are some rumors out there--and mind you I said rumors that his participation in this project MIGHT be limited by his past association with HD and Victory.
RUMOR says it is the Victory association that might be the problem.
Me I don't know--but it is an interesting RUMOR!!!!
As in ND agreement MIGHT effect just how much he is able to contribute to anything engineering or design related.
Just a RUMOR--but it does make sense when you think about it.
Take your own advice, and read my post carefully.

And-I apologize if you are not who I'm thinking you are.
Are you affiliated, or a participant in the Pubic site?
Your unquestioning support of all things Stellican would kind of make me believe you are.
As far as the size of the building?
Might have something to show you in a day or two.
Can't promise--and it might not happen--but it is a possibility.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/30/2007 5:51 PM
Hey I just thought I'd pass this on from the Charlotte observer today. Great to know that Indian is still rolling forward despite the guy in this thread with an obvious axe to grind (hope there are not many more where he came from). I do not come on this thread much anymore - I was hoping that some good discussion around Indian would start - some have, but the axe grinder just doesn't get it. Some people root for the return of Indian. My take on Indian is they appear to be doing it right - going slow and leading the way - putting their money where their mouth is and researching the hell out of everything. This will be one VERY interesting rebirth of the legendary brand of motorcycle. I can't wait to see more american v-twins on the road. I am guessing it will be quite awhile before they reach sales numbers worth crowing about. But by the looks of the talent they are acquiring - the big boys are already taking notice - like having an anvil drop on your foot!!! LOL Here is the snippet from Charlotte:


http://www.charlotte.com/breaking_news/story/341132.html

Posted on Tue, Oct. 30, 2007
Indian Motorcyle to open store
Indian Motorcycle will break ground Wednesday on the company's first area dealership.

The company relocated its headquarters to Kings Mountain from Sarasota, Fla. last year. The store will be built off Interstate 85 at the Lowell-Cramerton exit, said an email from the company.

Along with Indian, sister company yacht-maker Chris-Craft Corp. announced plans last year to create more than 800 jobs and invest $42 million in Cleveland County.

The 106-year-old motorcycle manufacturer is rebuilding its heritage brand and expects to debut new bikes next year, according to its fall newsletter.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rebecca Sulock

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/30/2007 8:16 PM
Dang!!
Beat me to it by 10 minutes.
Yep--they announced a factory.
Read the release.
announced LAST YEAR to create more than 800 jobs and invest $42 Million in Cleveland County.
The store will be built off Interstate 85 at the Lowell-Cramerton exit, said an email from the company.--An email from the company is NEWS?
Hey--I got an investment for you No More Chicken Strips--Send me your email address, and we'll do a deal.
You got a couple Mill to invest?
This quote from chicken strips?
I wish you all on here only had some kind of idea how often those sentiments have been expressed on the Public Indian site in those exact same words.
Hey Strips--you a member? LMAO!!!
"My take on Indian is they appear to be doing it right - going slow and leading the way - putting their money where their mouth is and researching the hell out of everything. This will be one VERY interesting rebirth of the legendary brand of motorcycle."

It would be interesting to see a HARD report on just how much has been invested so far, and how many jobs have actually been created.
Word I recieve--and from what I saw?
No more than 12 cars in the parking lot EVER.
They also made a press release over a year ago.
They Photoshopped (Poorly done) Tractor trailer rigs backed up to the door of the factory.
This article appears to be just another Press Release.
Might be some more info in the next month or so.

Interesting last sentence.
THE 106 year old motorcycle company?
Did any one bother to tell them they have only owned it since 2004.
Any one bother to tell them the first real rebirth went from 1999-2004?
Any one bother to tell them INDIAN MOTORCYCLE was established in 1901, and went out of business (While owned by Brits) in 1953?

Rad that release CAREFULLY, and see what your honest opinion is.
Looks like a PR machine at work promising a lot.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 10/31/2007 3:37:08 AM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/30/2007 9:59 PM
There is a little more detail...here is the actual e-mail sent out by Indian to announce the event (the groundbreaking on the new model store) I guess they are for real - you know -creating jobs by building the store and then employing actual people to run it. Good luck Indian.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First dealership of the historic motorcycle company's new era to be located southwest of Charlotte


Indian Motorcycle will hold a Groundbreaking ceremony Wednesday, October 31 in Lowell, NC at the site of the company's future dealership. This will be the first of 50 dealerships the company plans to have in place by 2010.

The new building will feature interior and exterior designs that Indian Motorcycle Dealers will adopt across the country. Its Lowell location is in Gaston County, just off I-85 and visible from the interstate.

The ceremony will be attended by Indian Motorcycle's Chairman Stephen Julius, President Steve Heese as well as the Charlotte and Gaston County Chambers of Commerce, the Mayor of Lowell, The Gaston County Board of Commissioners and Economic Development Committee and the mayor of Kings Mountain, NC.

Indian Motorcycle is America's oldest and most iconic motorcycle brand. The 106 year old company opened its new manufacturing facility in Kings Mountain, NC in July 2006 and is currently in pre-production. Indian Motorcycle plans to release a 2009 model year Chief in 2008. These limited edition motorcycles can be reserved by visiting the website www.indianmotorcycle.com

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/30/2007 9:59 PM
You haven't been by since IP left?
You mean you haven't seen their sign??
OH MY GOSH!!!
The Indian Dealers in Kansas City both had signs that would put the IMC Factory sign to shame.
Both of those dealerships were small--even by Gilroy dealer standards.
Almost like they are ashamed of advertising the fact that they are there.
What is it--like 3x5?
Last I knew it didn't even have lights in it.
And?
It was part of a fire and liquidation sale if what I'm told is true.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/31/2007 2:26 PM
Wish I had known in advance about the ground breaking. I would have made the trip. I like the fact that the factory and the first dealership will be only 4 hours away.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/31/2007 2:32 PM
HogWild said...
Has anyone noticed this thread runs pretty much like the Indian itself? Dang bike won't die and neither is this thread.... lol lol
Now I don't care who ya are, that there some funny stuff!

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/31/2007 2:51 PM
The Real Pappy said...
Wish I had known in advance about the ground breaking. I would have made the trip. I like the fact that the factory and the first dealership will be only 4 hours away.

I am both further away and closer. Depends on if I ride or fly  LOL. But would have been nice to go see.

Anyway, it would have also been good to see all those people Indian is pulling a fast one on. I mean they got the Charlotte and Gaston County Chambers of Commerce, the Mayor of Lowell, The Gaston County Board of Commissioners and Economic Development Committee and the mayor of Kings Mountain, NC. to show up.


Here is what the paper has to say today

"Indian Motorcycle Co. broke ground Wednesday afternoon on a 10,000-square-foot dealership off Interstate 85 at the Lowell-Cramerton exit.

The site will sell motorcycles, apparel and accessories.

Financial terms of the investment weren't disclosed.

Indian Motorcycle operates out of an industrial building in Kings Mountain. The 106-year-old company is led by two Harvard Business School graduates. They plan to build a modern motorcycle with roots in the flashy style of the Scout and Chief models that made the brand famous.

About 20 engineers and support personnel are making Indian prototypes in the former International Paper Co. building on Battleground Avenue.

Indian Motorcycle and its sister company, Chris-Craft Corp., are controlled by United Kingdom-based Stellican Ltd. Last year, Stellican said it would invest $41.5 million in a pair of Cleveland County factories that will eventually employ more than 800 workers.

Chris-Craft is the country's oldest boatmaker."


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 10/31/2007 2:53 PM
The Real Pappy said...
HogWild said...
Has anyone noticed this thread runs pretty much like the Indian itself? Dang bike won't die and neither is this thread.... lol lol
Now I don't care who ya are, that there some funny stuff!
lol lol lol lol

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 10/31/2007 4:37 PM
Is Cleveland County in NC also? I can remember going to Miami as a kid an visiting a Chris Craft dealership with my Dad who didn't have two nickels to rub together but just wanted to see one. The dealer told us the boats ran a little over $2K per foot and my Dad and I could only wonder what kind of folks could possibly afford one. He would be shocked at what goes on today! If he were still around, he would really get a kick out of seeing my bikes.

Posted By : Mac_Muz - 10/31/2007 4:52 PM
I thought missouri was MI., but it turns out to be Mo. I guess Michigan must be MI then.

I don't think I saw that place, but I do have a "Indian" coffee mug, 3 infact, which I bought at the Motorcycle Cafe' in Alpena Arkansas. How come thars' no "w" in Arkansaw?

If a Cafe' has very bright red coffee cups with Indian on them will it start WW-3? Maybe it might! It ain't signed, don't even say made in China!

I just tripped over the place..

Big Chief, you remind me of a Charlie Dan'ls tune where the guys hair falls out from under his hat, and the dude in the song says "I ain't even got a garage, you can call home and ask my wife!"

edited: I before E, I before E, I before E, I before E, One of these days maybe I will get my act together..


So many bikes, and so little memory
Ossipee New Hampster "Eat Seeds or Die"
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/31/2007 5:43 PM
WOW!!
Sounds like a hell of a tood-Doo.
Financial Terms undisclosed?
Yep-that would sound about right.
Hey Mac.
Alpena, Arkansas Indian Motorcycle Cafe is no more.
Frenchy went through a bad divorce, and lost the whole damn thing.
That's an Indian Motorcycle riding man there.
'48 Chief and watching him ride it is a pleasure.
Frenchy ran over a deer in 06, and pretty well totaled the old Chief out.Rebuilt it during the winter, and rode the hell out of it in the spring.
Strapped a set of crutches onto the handle bars--put a handicap sticker on the front fender--and rode the hell out of it.
You ever want to see a man devoted to his machine, and the Brand--meet up with Frenchy.
I've seen him strip that bike down in parking lots with nothing more than a hammer and crescent wrench.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 11/1/2007 7:19 AM
The Real Pappy said...
Is Cleveland County in NC also? 

Yes it is in NC

http://www.clevelandcounty.com/nav/index.htm

I can see why they brought Indian and Chris Craft there too after learning a little bit about the area. The last group may have got Indian up and running fast but doing it in California was not a good long term strategy. And look where they are now.

Gilroy was a bad business plan, bad management and a bad, not very well thought out product. What a combination for success!!

The only thing they got right seems to be the design of the bikes. Poor execution.

Now if these boys in Kings County can take those motorcycle designs and get the other aspects of the business corrected they may have a chance to get Indian up and running for the long run.


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/1/2007 6:44 PM
Lower labor cost, sweet tax deal and no Cali emission rules...sounds like all positive to me. And heck, that is a nice part of the country.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 11/1/2007 10:22 PM
Hey COOL - they broke ground on that dealership yesterday.
 
Hey The Real Pappy - got your PM - I agree.  Looks like Indian is in full stride.
 
Since you live so close by maybe you could update us once in awhile?
 

Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 11/2/2007 6:34:05 AM GMT


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 11/2/2007 7:48 AM
The dealership is set to open in April of 2008.

And Steve Heese said they have 6+ prototype bikes and are building more. Plus they have several engines being tested under many controled conditions.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 11/2/2007 9:56 AM
Big Chief said...
The dealership is set to open in April of 2008.

And Steve Heese said they have 6+ prototype bikes and are building more. Plus they have several engines being tested under many controled conditions.
COOL - we're hearing similar things then.  I heard 8-10 prototypes resulting from operational efficiency tests of the assembly line.
 
Looks like they are on their way - I hope they can compete.
 
All the negative drivel is just ashes to ashes now.  Let the serious debate begin - I can't wait to see how they move this forward.  The motor changes should be very interesting.  I hear they have all "Motorcycle Guys" working for them too - the "businessmen" are just up at the board/president level - very smart.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 11/2/2007 3:34 PM
More details - I'll try to get the facts - from the media sources as best I can.  It is better than the hearsay that we get from others.

_____________________________________________________________

10/31/07 Cleveland County Star

Indian Motorcycle business set for April
Company makes it official, dealership coming in 2008
Thomas Monigan
October 31, 2007 - 11:05PM

Two months after it was reported that Indian Motorcycle had bought 3.78 acres in Lowell for $625,000, the company made it official Wednesday.
Slated for completion in April is a 10,000-square-foot dealership just off Exit 22 on I-85.
This is the first of 50 dealerships the company has planned as it attempts to come back under new owners from being out of business.
Financial terms of the investment were not discussed.
But the company Web site lists $4.1 million as a necessary investment to become a dealer.
“You’ve never seen anything like this before,” said Dave Wagner from Wagner Murray Architects in Charlotte. Saying the final design was not yet completely approved, company officials declined to issue the architect’s rendering of what the store would look like.
Indian Motorcycle is already building prototypes at its new facility in Kings Mountain, and has plans to launch a new line of clothing in January. “We’ve got between six and 10 and we’re making more daily,” Heese said.
Heese credited county officials with getting the project launched quickly.
“It’s taken us three months to do here what would’ve taken us a lifetime where we live in Florida,” he said. “We want this to be a destination kind of place … a landmark with profound design.”
Hoke Enterprises from nearby Earl is the general contractor, and project manager Ron Garner said completion is targeted April. Concrete work is scheduled to begin in two weeks.
Indian is making every bit of the new motorcycles itself, including the engines. Company Chairman Stephen Heese called this “a gargantuan task.” The company also has plans to launch a new line of motorcycle clothing, with a New York City launch scheduled for January.
“Start smart and grow slow,” said Indian general manager Chris Bernauer.

Posted By : Mac_Muz - 11/2/2007 5:32 PM
Couple things:
 
In general there is a post on the dealer ship.. keep it civil over in general ok? Please??
 
I have a few PMs concering my post which was in jest.. I was just messing around being a wise ass jerk. Sometimes I am. No one is under any problems over that, except me! I was reading it and the song popped in my alleged brain... ok! Just making that public...
 
KC, after today's work you have no idea how much I would like simple things in simple ways.... I got to cut my teeth on a  03 diesel ford f -350 what a nightmare to do anything on that engine! I didn't know Frenchy. I stopped there one time for a snack.. The big "D" sucks! been there, got raped, and never got the t shirt... Oh well. The good part was I was set free and married again, this time the right gal....
 
Me: I am exited Indian is coming up and getting going.. I hope they make it this time..


So many bikes, and so little memory
Ossipee New Hampster "Eat Seeds or Die"
 
 


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/2/2007 6:25 PM
Up to NC may be a good trip in say Feb. to see the progress.

Posted By : Mac_Muz - 11/3/2007 9:31 AM
Up to NC in Feb??? Oh I don't think so, not from NH it ain't up to nuthin'! From here it would be down and welcome come mid Feb, but I don't dare leave because if we get 3 to 5 feet of that white stuff I would be DOOMED.


So many bikes, and so little memory
Ossipee New Hampster "Eat Seeds or Die"
 
 


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/3/2007 9:41 AM
Oh, I forgot....New Hampster! LOL

Posted By : Mac_Muz - 11/3/2007 10:01 AM
The Real Pappy
Guilty as accused. The sentance is Eat Seeds Or Die! LOL


So many bikes, and so little memory
Ossipee New Hampster "Eat Seeds or Die"
 
 


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/3/2007 4:11 PM

I didn't even notice that before! LOL

I don't care who ya are dat some funny sheet there!


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/3/2007 11:52 PM
Interesting little fact?
As of the time of this posting?
No mention of the groundbreaking on the Company Dealership has been made on the official Indian Website.
Overlooked maybe?
Not newsworthy maybe?

I'm betting by the time a lot of you read this it will probably be up.
There's some boys on here who will be making some phone calls as soon as this is read.
But right now?
4 days after the official groundbreaking ceremony--nope--no mention.

Yep-that dealership is some exciting news alright--seems like it would be blasted all over their web site.
Wonder what kind of problems they'll run into as an explanation for not starting or completing it on schedule?
Folks--there are still a few little tidbits I can share with you if you are interested in seeing them.

Hey Pappy--let me know when you go visit--that's pretty country up there--I'll ride along with you--got an official Indian Motorcycle emloyee I'd like to say hey to ----again

:p --helpful--courteous--and good conversationalist.
Be sure to watch out for the gravel patch when you ride through the gate though--seems like a motorcycle manufacturer would be considerate enough to sweep the sand patch away from their front gate--it's a bitch to see it in the dark.

20 Indian personel building prototypes?
Well--Maybe they are car pooling or something--the parking lot surely doesn't indicate that many folks in that building.
And--is the new dealership going to display prototypes or sell motorcycles?

Yep--I wish them well also.

Hey--here's an interesting qrticle in the kneeslider.
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/11/01/indian-motorcycle-building-first-new-dealership/

Looks like I'm not the only naysayer in the world--and it looks like Stellican best be getting busy.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 11/4/2007 6:59:09 AM GMT


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/4/2007 7:09 AM

MAC, maybe you should relocate to a little warmer climate, perhaps south? It gets chily here but no snow so we get to ride 12 months. Only 690 miles from Key West so a long weekend and you are guranteed of nice warm beaches.

Hey, keep this quiet. We are not actually allowed to invite Yankees down here!

 


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 11/4/2007 2:17 PM
The Real Pappy,
The foundation should be set in 2 - 3 weeks.  freaked
Maybe you could swing by and get some pictures of the progress  hop
 
 
Charlotte and Gaston County Chambers of Commerce, the Mayor of Lowell, The Gaston County Board of Commissioners and Economic Development Committee and the mayor of Kings Mountain, NC. were all there, and more. Bet they are going to fast track the building permit process for this project. jumpin

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/4/2007 2:51 PM
I have a few days off during Thanksgiving, maybe I'll just do that. Of course I could just Photoshop a foundation like Indian does all the time to fool people! LOL

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 11/4/2007 10:56 PM
Photoshop

ROTFLMAO

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 11/5/2007 11:55 AM
Seems some have contacts inside - too bad they aren't management or decision makers - or maybe they are not sharing? Imagine that - LOL Yeah when you have nothing to show - photoshop - its the next best thing!!! lol THAT IS FUNNY.

Hey a I heard a rumor. You know that really steep dealer buy-in cost? You know the one no one will touch and they're crazy if they think dealers will step up? Well, I heard they only want 50 for the near future - but they already have legit applications by folks with real monet numbering in the 1,000s. I know it can't possibly be true, who would ever invest in an American Icon motorcycle company (seems to be repeated in their press) by a coupla jamokes with Harvard and Cambridge business degrees and a track record bringing back other icons like Riva, Chris Craft, etc... Yep, no one would want to invest in a scheme like that - no one I tells ya. LOL

Well glad to see the factory and the dealership model are underway - and the prototypes - the rest can't be too far off. I'm gonna hibernate for winter soon and when I come out - I'll bet I won't have to forage far or long for an glimpse of a new Indian - LOL

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/5/2007 5:03 PM
Wait, just wait. I heard those dealership applications look a little suspicious. Here is one from Jimmy Hoffa, Osama Ben Laden, Jack O'Latern, Elvis. Ya just can't trust these guys!

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 11/5/2007 6:13 PM
The Real Pappy said...
Wait, just wait. I heard those dealership applications look a little suspicious. Here is one from Jimmy Hoffa, Osama Ben Laden, Jack O'Latern, Elvis. Ya just can't trust these guys!
Yeah I heard HD sent them a thousand or so...LOL!!! jumpin

Posted By : homer14 - 11/15/2007 2:45 PM
interesting thread..
the indian website should be updated today or soon...

Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/16/2007 6:58 AM
Hey Homer--how you doing.
I guess Pappy warned you that things weren't going to well over here Huh?
Got a few requests for you while you're schmoozing with the boys in Kings Mountain.
Can you also have them update the site to reflect the NEW production release date.
They kind of got stuck on 2008--forgot to update to 2009.
I imagine they get confused though with so many changes in release dates--probably hard to keep up with them all and keep the site current.
Also?
Seems odd to me though that a WORD CLASS COMPANY dedicated to bringing Indian back slowly and surely would forget to update their website to reflect their first dealership.
Like Pappy says though--it's not a significant thing to over look--hell there's Indian dealerships ready to spring up all over the damn country isn't there?
Seems odd to me also that from what I've seen so far they have chosen a member of a motorcycle board to be their official spokesman.
Yes folks--Homer is from the Public Site, and seems to get the scoop directly from Kings Mountain.
He is an INSIDER to all the news before it's news.

Hey Homer--while your at it -- you know what would be cool?
Ask them to do a weekly update on the PROGRESS they are making with the dealership facility, and stick it on the site also.
Pictures would be damn nice--just to confirm the progress to folks who might be inclined to DOUBT what they are doing.
Lot of folks out there beginning to doubt their veracity.
Have you been to the kneeslider site yet?
Yep--the seem to be losing credibility pretty dam fast in the last 6 months or so.

Hey Homer--give me a call when you get a chance--I go an invitation for you to a new gathering next Spring.
We need to talk.

Guess what?
Pappy decided to join the Crazy horse site, and has made a few posts over there that might be of interest to you--kind of came on FaggotyLiar style, and seems to enjoy trying to disrupt the only internet site ut there dedicated to the Gilroy ndian Rider.
That's kind of strange isn't it?
I got some other news you might like to hear if you give me a holler.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 11/16/2007 8:14 AM
Hello homer14, looks like you know KC Cheef already? Or is he just jumping you like he does anyone who does not hate Indian? He really don't like it when people think different then him. You are either with him or against him, LOL. But if you read this thread I am sure you noticed that already.

I just checked the Indian website, no change yet but I will keep checking back.

Thanks for the notice.

Posted By : homer14 - 11/16/2007 8:50 AM
KC Cheef said...
Hey Homer--how you doing.
I guess Pappy warned you that things weren't going to well over here Huh?
Got a few requests for you while you're schmoozing with the boys in Kings Mountain.
Can you also have them update the site to reflect the NEW production release date.
They kind of got stuck on 2008--forgot to update to 2009.
I imagine they get confused though with so many changes in release dates--probably hard to keep up with them all and keep the site current.
Also?
Seems odd to me though that a WORD CLASS COMPANY dedicated to bringing Indian back slowly and surely would forget to update their website to reflect their first dealership.
Like Pappy says though--it's not a significant thing to over look--hell there's Indian dealerships ready to spring up all over the damn country isn't there?
Seems odd to me also that from what I've seen so far they have chosen a member of a motorcycle board to be their official spokesman.
Yes folks--Homer is from the Public Site, and seems to get the scoop directly from Kings Mountain.
He is an INSIDER to all the news before it's news.

Hey Homer--while your at it -- you know what would be cool?
Ask them to do a weekly update on the PROGRESS they are making with the dealership facility, and stick it on the site also.
Pictures would be damn nice--just to confirm the progress to folks who might be inclined to DOUBT what they are doing.
Lot of folks out there beginning to doubt their veracity.
Have you been to the kneeslider site yet?
Yep--the seem to be losing credibility pretty dam fast in the last 6 months or so.

Hey Homer--give me a call when you get a chance--I go an invitation for you to a new gathering next Spring.
We need to talk.

Guess what?
Pappy decided to join the Crazy horse site, and has made a few posts over there that might be of interest to you--kind of came on FaggotyLiar style, and seems to enjoy trying to disrupt the only internet site ut there dedicated to the Gilroy ndian Rider.
That's kind of strange isn't it?
I got some other news you might like to hear if you give me a holler.
Hey KC,
Hope you and the missus are fine.
Actually, I don't know who Pappy is and I ran across this site doing a search for info to put on my site.  I don't know if I agree with your assertation that things "aren't going well over here"..
Yes, I have met and spoke with Julius and Heese in person at Branson, like many others, and tho I do on occasion still correspond with KM (Julius, actually) I don't "schmooze"..they did however ask my persmission to referr Gilroy owners and enthusiasts to my site for info to help with their bikes.  KM has access to the public and private forums, and we have a new member at the IIRA site who works at the factory.  I believe he wrote the letter to Rick you quouted earlier.  I may get tidbits when I ask, but honestly, I don't get a whole lot of Insider info. And yes, Karin and I still correspond.
As far as I was told (not directly from KM) they will be putting up a new site very soon, and it will update the current progress.  The production date was to be late '07, and it has slipped to early/mid '08..no biggie.  Your concerns and attitude is exactly why they don't release a lot of info upfront.  Unlike some companies, they wish to underpromise and over deliver--i for one hope they make it.  Honestly, I don't think they really care what anyone thinks.  I was told, and believe, they will introduce the chief when it is ready. I was always told late this year, but probably early next year. 
Yes, I use the public site, and have a site of my own http://www.indianmcinfo.com where i post news and info for Gilroy Indians.  Will be updating with KM Indians and Springfield Indians soon. 
I don't think a weekly progress report is feasable--even CH won't do that! Esp if there is nothing newsworthy to report.  I'm sure the newspapers will be documenting the progress like they did the groundbreaking.  KC, do you really think the $$ they are spending on the factory acquisitions (CC and Indian), the 16 or so high priced engineers, the other 4 or so employees, the deal with mishka, the re-working of the PowerPlus, getting the JW lawsuits dismissed, the factory owned dealership, etc etc is because they don't plan on going into production?  Money out of their own pockets, btw. 
Yes, I heard the Sotelo interview and the kneeslider too.  Don't remember much about either, but hey, I've had 10 concussions!  If you like, I'll share all I know--some may be in direct contradiction to what you know, but I prefer to wait and see what develops.  So far, most of the things I've been led to believe are coming to fruition.
And to correct just a couple things I saw earlier..Moet approached Indian..Moet does that vintage show...Moet asked to buy a Moet branded Indian--free, smart, publicity.. at Branson and since, many, including myself, made it clear to the Steves that there is always need for a non-factory owned rider's group, i.e. IIRA.. the IRG will and should be the basis for the official factory owned group.  For instance, on a factory owned forum we couldn't have this exchange, or exchange about the warts of the bikes...There was no slap in the face, implied or actual to any non-sponsored groups.  Also at Branson, Heese had a broken wrist and couldn't ride. Julius never really had time as they got there late, remember?  I think you'd be surprised at what will be at Branson next year.  They are businessmen, not bikers, and don't claim to be, but after spending time with them, I think you'd be surprised at the feel for the passion of the brand and at their own passion. They are being smart and surrounding themselves with bike people--from S&S, HD, Victory, etc... You are basing your opinions on what you are being told by JW and his group--not really a non-biased or open minded opinion there.  Do I think they are doing everything right? No.. Do I like everything they are doing? I like the general direction, but I may differ on some of the methodology.  I, like anyone can, have made my opinions on some things known.  As I mention, they read forums and do research and are aware of the concerns out there.  They feel they have the right answers..only time will tell, but until they do something to sway my brand loyalty, I'll stick with them because it's all we got...
I don't visit the CH site and besides you and Powerstroke, I don't think I know anyone here.  I've never meant Powerstroke, and quite frankly, sometimes he's an ass on the public forum (i mean that with all the affection in the world PS), but he's a pretty smart fella, as are you, KC. I don't visit a whole lot of other forums about bikes actually as Indians are my thing...but, I think your are wrong if you thing the CrazyHorse site is the only site dedicated to Gilroy bikes....there's my site, the indianmotorcyclecommunity.com, the IRG--ironindian.com, the texas riders site, etc... links to all on my site.
KC, we are friends.  As you know, I love all things indian--it's obvious your love ceased with Gilroy and is aimed towards Crazy Horse. Knowing the history behind it all, I think that's too bad and if Indian is your thing as you claim, you are hitching your wagon to the wrong Horse (pun intended).  JW will never own Indian.  CH will never make production bikes.  I got a feeling even the engine program there will run into problems..legally and production wise....don't read anything into that, it's just a feeling. 
And as the owner of two PowerPlus Chiefs, one bought in late '04 (way after the factor closing), I have been a very happy Indian owner, and hopefully will add a fat tire scout with a PowerPlus and maybe a KM fuel injected chief to the stable...tho i'm partial to mouth breating bikes..
I will give you guys a call soon...gotta do a lil more thinking about that leather piece i need the missus to make....
the edit...also, if it's the LW gathering, it's the week before Branson, and I prolly won't be able to make it..'side's, i'm not LW.  Branson will be tough enuff to make, but i'll do my best to be there.
 

 

Post Edited (homer14) : 11/16/2007 3:59:36 PM GMT


Posted By : homer14 - 11/16/2007 9:03 AM
Big Chief said...
Hello homer14, looks like you know KC Cheef already? Or is he just jumping you like he does anyone who does not hate Indian? He really don't like it when people think different then him. You are either with him or against him, LOL. But if you read this thread I am sure you noticed that already.

I just checked the Indian website, no change yet but I will keep checking back.

Thanks for the notice.
Hey there Big Chief..didn't see this post..
Yeah, I know KC..he's a bud o mine and actually a  good guy.  he's VERY opinionated about these issues tho, lol...he's got his reasons--no sweat.
Yeah..haven't seen the site, but hopefully it'll be cool..

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 11/16/2007 9:16 AM
homer14,

I see you mentioning Crazy Horse too. I have googled the name Crazy Horse motorcycle but only come up with Crazy Horse Painting and Crazy Horse Motorcycle Transportation. Is one of these companies trying building bikes or trying to get the Indian name?

Posted By : homer14 - 11/16/2007 9:58 AM
Big Chief,
Not related, i don't think. Crazy Horse Motorcycles came from Rolling Thunder motorcycle in Seattle area. They are owned by John White, who owns? APE pile driving--a hugely successful and pretty cool pile driving business..I think most of the pile drives you see with "American" on them are APE (American Pile and Eq?).
John is/was an Indian enthusiast, who I believe bid on the IP and lost.

OK...A history lesson...One of the BIG divisions and animosity you see here b/his followers and others started over the way he stated his fix for the PP engine was the only correct fix...there are 3 main rebuilders Joe Malfa, Blackhawk motorworks and P&M Powertrain (Blackhawk and P&M did the failure studies for Indian). John's assertations were one thing failed causing the other, and unless you used his fix, your rebuild was doomed to fail, and the other's research stated the other failure could cause the one, or they could fail independently..and they had hundreds of rebuilds with few failures backing their knowledge....kinda a chicken . egg thing + chicken little sky is falling thing thrown in there..(i have one rebuilt by blackhawk and one rebuit by Malfa--neither failed prior to reubuild and both seem fine now). It wasn't so much what he said, as how he said it that started the commotion...he still tends to come across as well, not the most refined.. I personally would never buy another Indian if he owned the company, based on my opinion of him as an motorcycle company owner (not based on his other accomplishments or based on him as an individual, as he is actually can be a pretty fun person and can be very genuinally nice)....Somehow, with some, the debates got personal, and the Crazyhorse group split off, taking a few with them, and there is a lot of animosity b/that group and some on the public forum, and the IIRA...anyhoots...

He has some pretty innovative ideas based on the 02/03 Chief platform and has built a few neat custom chiefs. He now calls them Crazy Horse bikes. He also has bought unused PowerPlus engine parts and some raw castings, and I believe tooling to make engines based on the PP platform and calls it the VPlus 100, as there are some legal problems with calling it the Powerplus (yes, it's kinda been to court). KC is their test rider. I rode their fuel inected chief at Branson--very nice ride, but I didn't ride it far enuff to form a real opinion. They have some good ideas--RSD, fuel injection, trike, fat tire chief, etc...which most of you'll see in up coming Indian bikes.
I don't know their website..maybe crazyhorsemotorcycles.com?

i try to be fair an unbiased, lol, but I am definetly pro Indian... I am not anti CrazyHOrse, just wouldn't buy one if they were ever produced.

Posted By : homer14 - 11/16/2007 10:26 AM

here ya go..

i think it's gonna be a starbucks!


Post Edited (homer14) : 11/16/2007 5:29:29 PM GMT


Posted By : martinjmpr - 11/16/2007 10:32 AM
Hey, how about reducing the picture size a bit for those of us who don't have billboards for computer screens?


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : homer14 - 11/16/2007 10:52 AM
lol..was working on that as you typed!

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 11/16/2007 11:31 AM
KC Cheef said...
Seems odd to me also that from what I've seen so far they have chosen a member of a motorcycle board to be their official spokesman.
LOL
 
And I guess they have chosen a member of a motorcycle board to be the anti Indian official spokesman in you! devil
 
yeah
Hate hate hate
Hate hate hate
Hate Indian
KC hates Indian

yeah

Sing that along to that 70's disco song shake your booty that KC sung when he was younger. Yep, it was KC and the Sunshine Band!!!

 
Looks like KC lost his Sunshine!!! tongue

Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/16/2007 2:49 PM
Hey Homer--thanks for the pics.
And?
Hate Indian Motorcycles?
ME?
Nope--take a look in my garage.
In the past year I have NEVER had fewer than 3 in there--and I only own one.
As far as being satisfied with my Gilroy?
Well you and me are in the same boat--I own one I would NEVER give up--you own 2 of them.
Funny thing is--we're both happy with them.
Another funny thing is--between us we own 3--and I've got 2 others in my garage.
5 Indian Chiefs and every damn one of them has been rebuilt roll
I'm thinking all at under 20k miles.

Johns work on the PP problems?
Do a little checking around, and see how much of it has been proven correct.
I'm gonna guess it will surprise you.

Also if you'll recall?
IMC owns the TM Power Plus because John decided not to fight them over it.
A little matter of expiring TMs if I remember right.

I'm also guessing there are some things happening and have happened that maybe you don't know the COMPLETE story on.

You ride safe Homer--and make a note on your calendar--I'm gonna be in Monroe again next August riding with the GOBs and I'd sure like you to show up.
KC

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 11/16/2007 3:11 PM
homer14 said...
Big Chief,
 
OK...A history lesson...One of the BIG divisions and animosity... KC is their test rider....

i try to be fair an unbiased, lol, but I am definetly pro Indian... I am not anti CrazyHOrse, just wouldn't buy one if they were ever produced.
This explains a lot.  Thanks.  Pretty hard not to be unbiased when you are being paid to work for another team. Now I'll know how to take the proclamations from that source.
 
So homer14 - it sounds like you may have some inside contacts with Indian - what is the latest on what bike they might put out and when?  Heard a lot about dealerships - so it must be "coming soon"?

Posted By : homer14 - 11/16/2007 3:35 PM
Funroe in August...mite be doable!...

My chiefs were reubilt not because they actually failed, but because I wanted to do them. They were prolly outta tolerance on the runout, as Joe and Frank can attest, but never actually went klabooey...

As for the trademarks, based on the research I did, and I'm sure John's lawyers did also, Indian would have had no problems securing the marks, expired or not. The only thing they needed was to show an intent to use the marks. And the lawsuit that John filed was dismissed in August as having no merit.

As I mentioned, JW's beliefs was not as much the problem as much as he was. Personally, as the rebuilders were testing and correcting the race spin problem as needed before, it wasn't as big an issue as made out to be. I also think there would be many, many, many more post rebuild failures if JW was 100% right on that issue. I know there are other issues that were to be corrected in the 04 model year that never happened. Again, I certainly can appreciate JW's throwing money at the Gilroy bikes and digging into issues and finding additional solutions to problems, but I don't believe him to be the saviour. His actions have also lost me as a potential customer. Too bad, I think he could have been to Indian what Calloway is to Corvette....I think there are many people and it's a combined effort that has kept our bikes and riders happy in the past few years.

I don't think anyone, save the interested parties, knows the COMPLETE story on anything. I, like you, know only what i'm told. I try to listen to both, or all sides, and know that the truth is somewhere in there. If I can find my own unbiased research, that's where I go to be the tiebreaker. Somethings aren't important to warrant further investigation.

Yeah, i haven't been able to ride in a few weeks, but I look to break out the leathers and do some riding soon.

Posted By : homer14 - 11/16/2007 3:51 PM
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
homer14 said...
Big Chief,
 
OK...A history lesson...One of the BIG divisions and animosity... KC is their test rider....

i try to be fair an unbiased, lol, but I am definetly pro Indian... I am not anti CrazyHOrse, just wouldn't buy one if they were ever produced.
This explains a lot.  Thanks.  Pretty hard not to be unbiased when you are being paid to work for another team. Now I'll know how to take the proclamations from that source.
 
So homer14 - it sounds like you may have some inside contacts with Indian - what is the latest on what bike they might put out and when?  Heard a lot about dealerships - so it must be "coming soon"?
well i don't think KC is paid, he is just an avid enthusiast.  And I don't think it's a this team, that team thing, but some do. 
As for Indian...everything I've heard and read, confirms the plans are for the Chief line to be introduced first as the flagship...several trim lines, lots of accessories.  Likely Q1 next yr for intro and  Q2 next yr for production.  Low numbers to start--less than 1000..kinda the same approach as with chris craft.  Ramp up as issues with the bikes are learned and fixed from real world experience, and as demand hopefully grows.  Much of dealer profit comes from the sale of accessories..HD gets about 3K per bike...Tho Indians come with more chrome off the shelf, If you see my bikes, or KC's, you'll see that Indians can be dressed even more.  They will assemble in house.
They will then introduce a scout with the PP..and hopefully a fat tire scout (my wishes)..
They will eventually branch out into sport bikes, and other platforms...no real timeline on that, but in the next 10 yrs or so mite fit the bill. 
Yes they are doing the dealership thing....they want to create a "unique Indian experience" for the buyer, that's why they want monobranded stores...I'm torn on that one...but with a limited number of bikes, they only need "x" amount of dealers...they want those dealerships to be special. 

Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/19/2007 7:21 AM
NO!!
KC isn't paid.
That's a nice shot at another lie Chicken Strips--but it isn't true.
In fact?
KC has ended up spending his own money on every ride he has taken on a Crazy Horse machine.
Hey Homer--nice pics--I've got a few I'd REALLY like to post on here.
Don't know how to get them put on though.
Do you have the one at the ground breaking where the Steves are posed behind the Indian Motorcycle?
Seems they are STILL using the Gilroy machines to promote their Kings Mountain version of a motorcycle.
Seems kind of strange that their dealership is 6 months away, and they still use a red '04 Springfield to promote their groundbreaking.
Hey Homer--I pm'd you the link -- would you do me a favor, and put that pic on here, and explain to these folks what that bike is--how old it is, and where it was built.
Maybe tell them where it came from?
I'm going to say it is from one of two places--either boughten at the Gilroy fire sale--or boughten from Bill Melvin--remember him?
he is the shopping cart liquidation king of the world--didn't he spend about 6 months claiming he was going to resurrect Indian--then end up selling it off piece by piece?
Hey Chicken Strips (aka Last Resort) what exactly is it you are hearing about dealerships?
I'm hearing the dealership in KM s the only one in the works.
Sure be nice to see a few more springing up--but I sure can't find any evidence of any being built or planned anywhere else in the country.
Can you provide us with some info as to where to look?

You know what's kind of cool?
Me and Homer stand about as far apart on this whole thing as 2 people can get--but me and Homer don't take it to personal levels.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 11/19/2007 8:21 AM

KC Cheef,

Go back and read your posts, you took this into the personal attacks. Prior to you it was only a discussion about the company and bikes. Don't try and pass blame to anyone else for the bed you made.

So you really are surprised that they are showing the product the company made when it was bought and moved to Kings Mountain? I guess if you bought Ford you would just start from scratch and not continue on with the product line that the company was know for. My guess is you have never actually owned a business and have collected a pay check from someone else all your life.

You hate Indian and it shows. There is nothing Indian could do that would ever make you happy. It is shown through your posts.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/19/2007 8:59 AM
Big Chief said...
KC Cheef,

Go back and read your posts, you took this into the personal attacks. Prior to you it was only a discussion about the company and bikes. Don't try and pass blame to anyone else for the bed you made.

So you really are surprised that they are showing the product the company made when it was bought and moved to Kings Mountain? I guess if you bought Ford you would just start from scratch and not continue on with the product line that the company was know for. My guess is you have never actually owned a business and have collected a pay check from someone else all your life.



You hate Indian and it shows. There is nothing Indian could do that would ever make you happy. It is shown through your posts.


Yes it does surprise me that they would show a 'gilroy bike to promote their new venture.
Seems kind of strange that they keep using the theme of taking it slowly--doing it right--not making the mistakes Gilroy made--then pop up and use one of the failed efforts bikes to promote their product.
They have taken extra care to try to disassociate their company from the Gilroy era, and then use a Gilroy bike to promote their effort.
Kind of strange.

Nope--I don't hate Indian.
Got one in my garage that I own--2 more in there that I have in my care--I'm actually looking at another one to buy for myself.
No other bargain in the motorcycle world like a Gilroy Chief right now--it'd be a shame not to be finding another one.
I will admit--I do not like the present owners of Indian--that might change when they actually show me a motorcycle.
I'm just not going to support shadows--I could care less about boutique motorcycle dealerships that are in the process of being built--I don't care about T-shirts and $2500 motorcycle jackets--I'm not putting down a $1000 deposit on a motorcycle that I can't look at and touch--ESPECIALLY after the wait that seems to be associated with having one delivered to me.
And?
I SINCERELY wish they would show me a Kings Mountain Indian!!

And?
No Big Chief--you go back and read this thread
I am not PERSONALLY ATTACKING anyone.
Your accusations do make for good reading though.
If You feel like I attacked you or anyone else on here personally--I offer a sincere apology.
I kind of play by the same rules her I always play by--don't try to intimidate or humiliate me--I don't get chased away by bullying or lies.
I'm gonna guess you should realize that by now--but you just keep coming up with that lame attempt to discredit me.
Didn't work on the other board--won't work here.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 11/19/2007 4:12:20 PM GMT


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/19/2007 6:08 PM

Actually you have to think the new Indian will look just like the 03 and as you say 04 bike. Bottlecap motor, skirts, heck why change that? Just bring the bike out with a solid motor and you have a winner. Why would it have to look different? I don't know anyone at KM but hope this bunch makes it. I'm willing to wait a couple more years to make sure the methods of Gilroy bunch are not followed. If you look at the Gilroy era you should notice that the push and rush to put out the PP100 motor before it was ready, sent Gilroy down the tubes. You really don't need any further example of what not to do.

I have never been able to figure out this bitterness but assume some will never be happy. Me, I'm happy and enjoy making fun of those who are not!!!!

What was it someone said? If they sell one to 10% of the people who have looked at one of my Chiefs and thougth "I want one", they will succeed.

With that being said, I'm the proud owner of 2 Indian Chiefs. Both of which are more beautiful and faster than KC's bike. LOL


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/19/2007 6:23 PM
Gotta admit -- those are some nice LITTLE CHIEFS,
I'll figure out how to post a pic and get mine up here.
Hey--any time you want to run cross country let me know.
My Cheef will run the heart out of either of those two.
NOT BRAGGING--just stating facts.
I'm pertial to the Black one.
(NICE RIDE)
Hey Pappy--did you ever get a look at Big Daddys Paint job?
Tourquoise and Cream--poor old Big Daddy passed away in his sleep right after he got it put back together.
30 something--went to bed one night--didn't wake up--his father bought the bike and is storing it for BDs son.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/19/2007 7:25 PM

Sad story about BD and something you and me should think about. This Indian stuff should be fun. We should be thankful we have the priviledge to ride these bikes and in a country that allows competition.

I would like to do the 50CC with the IBA. Started to this year but once again allowed work rule my world. Maybe we do that someday before we push dasies? I'll see you in Branson, and you can punch my lights out if you need to. I'll only pump one round into yer back in the process! LOL

Later KC


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/19/2007 7:49 PM
Branson?
Nope--not me.
I am no longer welcome in Branson.
Good thing though--the promoter of that rally dubs it the ROCKING CHAIR RALLY--believe it-- that's what it is--you want to ride--you'll have to go on your own--no planned events.

Heading to IOWA this year with a bunch of friends--found a REALLY NICE PLACE to party.

A bunch of us kind of took a look at Branson--figured up the amount of money we've spent there--and decided to head out other places--kind of explore the country.

One thing you want to think about?
The motorcycle riders attrition rate is pretty damn high in Branson, Mo.

I had a friend head on'd on Main Street--He still isn't recovered.
Another had a grey hair turn out in front of him--totaled his bike--yep both Indians.

I hauled my friend to the hospital, and spent the night there with him--he was number 11 that weekend--12-13--and 14 went to the morgue.

You be careful riding in Branson--NOT a motorcycle friendly place.
And--count your money before you go--count it after you get back--see if you get what you pay for.

I'm gonna guess you'll be disappointed.

Punch your lights out?
Why would I want to do that?
Put a bullet in my back?
Why would YOU want to do that?
There's other boards--and you belong to one of them that would take that statement--blow it out of proportion, and run off screaming to each other about threats, and intimidation.
Nope--I got no reason to hurt you--wouldn't even think about it--I'd like an explanation for your little comment though.

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/19/2007 7:57 PM

Just always trying to make funny I guess. Come on, I won't shoot ya! LOL

 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/19/2007 8:00 PM
The Real Pappy said...
Sad story about BD and something you and me should think about. This Indian stuff should be fun. We should be thankful we have the priviledge to ride these bikes and in a country that allows competition.

I would like to do the 50CC with the IBA. Started to this year but once again allowed work rule my world. Maybe we do that someday before we push dasies? I'll see you in Branson, and you can punch my lights out if you need to. I'll only pump one round into yer back in the process! LOL

Later KC


Posts do have a way of disappearing at convenient times.
And--beleive it or not--I've actually sat on your site--watched my topic titles cahnge--watched my post content change--and watched my Public Profile copied right down to personal photos--and personal avatar.
Hell it was done by one of the Tribal Council members of the IIRA.

You got to be a little understanding of where I'm coming from here.
I'm the guy that was actually accused of threatening to stick a pencil in another riders neck.
Where the hell that one came from?
FaggotyLiar--AKA BlackDog--AKA Painted Pony--AKA Tribal Council Member of the IIRA.
Yep--the same TC member of your illustrious organization.

Hey Homer--remember that little episode?
Thought I would be sure this one stayed around so I could REALLY study over it.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 11/20/2007 3:11:32 AM GMT


Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/19/2007 8:43 PM
Yer sad dude, just really sad. I do feel bad for picking on you now. You really have some issues there and I just thought you were trying to make light of this stuff.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/19/2007 9:01 PM
The Real Pappy said...
Yer sad dude, just really sad. I do feel bad for picking on you now. You really have some issues there and I just thought you were trying to make light of this stuff.


What's sad about speaking truths?
Don't feel bad about picking on me--like I told you before--I don't intimidate--or go away.
Issues?
No--no issues here--no fear either.
You try to spin your post--read it literally and see what you think--nope--you of all people coming from the board you come from should understand how easy it is to spin a simple post or statement into what you want it to appear to be.
Feels pretty shitty when YOU are on the receiving end for a change doesn't it?

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/19/2007 9:09 PM
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.
Pretty sad KC. You need help dude.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/19/2007 9:20 PM
:p
Me?
Need Help?
Read your last post DUDE.
Then ask yourself why you follow me from forum to forum trying to wind me up.
So far?
Looks to me like you show your true self twice.
Once here--once on the CH forum
I'm gonna think if anyone needs help it's you.
Ride Safe
KC.
Hey be sure to keep me posted on Stellcans Progress.
And read the Julius interview posted on this site once more.
Looks like he has about 6 weeks to get a scoot out there.
Seems like it's gonna be a little difficult to do.
No one in the factory but engineers.

Posted By : homer14 - 11/20/2007 10:45 AM
Pics from KC..these are the ones i saw in the paper..the others are from a guy who works there...steve heese is 3rd from left and stephen julius is to his right...don't know the other folks....
That looks to be a Gilroy Chief--Springfield..one of my favs.. Looks like a gilroy PP100 too--I think the KM PP100 has a diff cam trigger, from the hints i've seen..the inflatible is a diff design on the PP, but I'm pretty sure that a gilroy deal too..seen that inflatable before and the engine looks like the one in the gilroy concept drawings (check my site)..
KC, i don't know why they are using the gilroy, but my guess is they're using that one so there's no pics of the prototypes out before they want them to be released.  Don't know where they got it-I know they bought some (or tried to) of off individuals, they got some real property with the IP, and I think Melvin did "give" them some things also.
 
I'm saddened that you and some of the LW's won't be coming to Branson..it's the largest gathering of Indians (all are welcomed) around..even more fun than that crappy rally they have in Branson.  I rode every day there, and yes, there is a need to be very attentive in the city; but outside the city there was some beautiful riding.  I hope SJ is doing better..I was "affected" to say the least when I picked up his bike..I also felt bad for the highschooler that hit him..i hope she learned something..
 
Real Pappy, are you the same Pappy from the IIRA and public forums? Chickenstrips, are you LR?  just curious..
 
KC, if you send me your pics i'll post them for you, or send you a link and you can post them yourself..

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/20/2007 11:04 AM

Yes Homer, Pappy is the real pappy.

Folks, don't pay attention to all the mudslinging here. Indian is a great bike choice and you will not be unhappy with a decision to buy one.

Adios


Posted By : homer14 - 11/20/2007 12:39 PM

website is live...looks good

here's a sneak at the '09's...maybe..this is an artist rendering actually...part 04, part 03 and some new tidbits..


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 11/20/2007 11:30 PM
homer14 said...

website is live...looks good

here's a sneak at the '09's...maybe..this is an artist rendering actually...part 04, part 03 and some new tidbits..

 
Hey thanks homer14 I saw that today but didn't have time to post - thanks for keeping us up to date.  What does LR mean? 
It is nice to see some discussion here - I come back to check once in awhile but the paid competitor test rider guy kinda ruins it for me - I am getting used to just ingoring his stuff though.  Some people seem to always seek the personal level. Not sure why but carry on if it makes you happy. 
Kind of funny though what seems to offend.Says he is not paid - pretty funny.  Did you ever hear of a company that didn't pay their test riders?   I guess you get what you pay for!!!   I mean it has to be something - even if just free use of a motorcycle.  Come on KC I may have been born on a day but it wasn't yesterday - LOL. 
There is nothing wrong with being somewhat biased and expressing an opinion - it is just more fair to board readers that we know it that's all - you're still entitled to your opinions.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/21/2007 7:15 AM
Thanks Mike--and I'll go on expressing my opinions.
As far as being fair?
It would also be fair to the readers for them to know who you are.
A Tribal Council member of the IIRA.
The owner of the Indian Motorcycle Community Public Forum.

Funny for you to be accusing me of being on the take--AGAIN.
You run two organizations that have been criticised as working against eachother--all in the name of making a buck or two.

Any one reading this will agree--Homer is unbiased and fair, and even he recognized who you are.
It is so typical of your methods to try to conceal your identity it gives you away immediately.
Don't be ashamed of who you are--come on out into the open.

And?
Before anyone gets too excited about that photo?
Nope--same old photo shopped Gilroy Springfield.
Take a look at the caliper cover--coil cover--etc on that bike--all photoshopped.
And poorly done at that.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 11/21/2007 2:19:33 PM GMT


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 11/21/2007 8:03 AM
Hey, guys?

I don't know what baggage you've all dragged in here from some other place and time, but It's not appropriate here to make threats of bodily harm, or sling insults.

Please try to "keep the shiny side up" when posting; and if people here are misrepresenting themselves, well, it's certainly unethical but this is the internet. You're going to get some of that just because people can get away with it.

I suspect that you guys are old enough to know better, so no more warnings will be made about this stuff. Posts will simply disappear, and accounts will get locked.

This ain't personal at all. I don't know you guys from Adam's off ox. I'm just concerned about the board.

So that being said, I've got a question. The only Indians I've seen up close & personal were models that looked like someone has simply bolted Indian fenders on a slightly customized H-D. How much of the bottle-cap bikes were basically interchangable with H-D? Were the PP-100 bikes a big departure from that in ways other than the engine?


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com


Posted By : aogop - 11/21/2007 2:50 PM
Hey Cad,

I'm sure those with more extensive backgrounds will fill in the blanks, but the first-generation "new" Indians had S&S motors. Their last incarnation, the "P100" or "Power Plus" Motor was basically a proprietary alteration of enough parts so that they aren't as interchangeable. Having said that, I'm not sure if it was just a design patent or a totally new power plant that was designed, engineered and built from scratch. I'm sure others will elaborate.


'06 DL1000


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/21/2007 3:36 PM
PP engine was proprietary--designed by PAS.
Extremely well designed--bad decisions in Gilroy led to an attrition rate that is unbelievable.
Pretty much accepted that the PP engine is what killed Gilroy.
Pinion race spinning is the killer of these engines.
A gentleman by the name of John White announced his findings, and was crucified for it.
Funny thing is--the findings have proven true--and he is still crucified for it.
3 Main rebuilders on these engines, and Johns theory on pinning the race is now employed by all 3 (From what I hear) I haven't watched them rebuild an engine or torn into any of their rebuilds--but pretty much looks like the theory in now accepted.
His mistake was predicting 100 percent failure.
It has not been 100 percent, and never will be because of the fact that a lot of INDIAN RIDERS look at these bikes as Collector Pieces or Garage Queens.
Hell I personally know more than one Indian rider who still has the original piece of shit Maxis wide whte wall tires on his machine--that's 5 years after he bought it.
He trailers it from show to show--pushes it off the enclosed trailer--collects a trophy and pushes it back in for another couple months.
The folks who get out and ride them find themselves rebuilding.
Some sooner some later--most mileage thus far that I've heard of is right round 36k.


Hey chicken strips--you really do get boring after a while.
As far as the test riding goes?
Nope--I just take them out and see what is vulnerable on them.
Been on a few Crazy Horse bikes that you affectionately call knock offs and copy cats, and rode them farther and faster than any of the Gilroy bikes have managed.
My pay is what I've always said it was--gas for the bike--and a hotel room.
It's a win - win deal--JW needs his bikes ridden--I like to ride them.

You just stay in your little internet kingdom and criticise people who like to ride motorcycles.
Good on you--we all like to do what suits us.
You seem to be happiest cutting and pasting and ruling your little Indian Kingdom--along with a lot of snuggling up to IMI.
Good on ya again.

I'd just like the folks on here to take a good look at that photoshop job on that bike pictured.
Stellican is pretty well known for their photoshop work--it's good enough a lot of times to fool a casual observer into thinking they are looking at a real motorcycle.
Just seems a little deceptive to me for them to photoshop an '04 Indian, and call it a 2009 Chief.

Posted By : homer14 - 11/21/2007 5:30 PM
I agree about the mudslinging.. it's old...real old..i;ve never really gotten in the personal stuff, and i have friends on both sides of the issues..to me, they all have fault and are all behaving like kids..some more than others..but it's really really really really juvenile...

I don't know anyone here except you KC. I asked chickenstrips that because you called him LR in an earlier post. I see pappy post on the other forum, but that's about all...oh. and Powerstroke is apparently the same from the other forum too, but I don't think he goes there anymore.

As for the PP100, KC and I still differ on this.... I still have not been told by Joe, Frank or Posie that the race spinning is the root cause of the failures--in fact, last I saw, Frank stated it was a result of the flywheel out of true... I don't know that it matters--again, chicken or egg?? All the rebuilders were addressing the flywheel in their own way prior to JW coming on the scene--not all races had spun, but all flywheels, etc were bad. No one pins them--not even JW (i don't think) anymore. I know Joe's method was to dig it out and use an evo race insert--i think all are doing that method now?n Again, as for JW, it's not so much what he said, but how he said it. He stated all would fail, and even included rebuilds in that group--that's no where near proven, or else our bikes would have failed also. And acutally, they all will fail--eventually....
The PP's had other issues besides flywheels and spinning race..pinion shaft runout, bad oil pumps, tolerances off, etc..the main problem was not in the engineering, but Gilroy, in their infinite wisdom, authorized assembly of the engines at specs other than what the engineers called for....brilliant...saved money on the front end...but they were loosing $1M/week ..mainly on issues with the chief and PP100...the QC wasn't there in the early years, but they were just about there for the '04 line, but the damage was done.

To answer the other question...I guess in general, a bike is a bike is a bike.. the early bikes, 99-01 were cmc's with fenders tacked on...mostly hand cut, so no two were exactly alike..making aftermarket accessories for those bikes really hard to fit. Now, frame geometry and details are different on the Indians. Many parts were made for Indian by custom chrome & thunderheart; s&S also made an engine (PP92) that was to go into the '04 scouts and spirits--another aesthetically nice design; corbin made seats, other smaller vendors made parts. The PP has some parts that were propietary, but most systems were designed so that the standard aftermarket parts could be used. Things like trannys, starters, ignitions, handlebar controls, batteries, and evo engine will fit, etc.. mostly 84-90 softails oi believe. The bikes were designed from the frame up, but with compatibility of existing parts in mind. The look, feel and handling of the bikes is different from HD and clones. KC will tell you, the chiefs are 8ft long 800lb beasts, but they handle like much smaller bikes. The other bikes were getting more and more of their own identity also.

KM is picking up the '04 line, which Gilroy had just about right, and carrying on from there. There are redisgned and re-sourcing parts, which will be compatible with the 02-04 chiefs where possible. They have redisgned the PP100 internally and added efi to meet 2008 ARB... they are also working on the future bike lines and I guess future engine platforms.

Posted By : homer14 - 11/21/2007 5:32 PM
aogop said...
Hey Cad,

I'm sure those with more extensive backgrounds will fill in the blanks, but the first-generation "new" Indians had S&S motors. Their last incarnation, the "P100" or "Power Plus" Motor was basically a proprietary alteration of enough parts so that they aren't as interchangeable. Having said that, I'm not sure if it was just a design patent or a totally new power plant that was designed, engineered and built from scratch. I'm sure others will elaborate.

yeah..for whatever reason, Gilroy spent $50M designing that engine and released it too early and not to spec..if they would have ceased production on the PP100 until it was ready, this thread would not be here..

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/21/2007 7:36 PM

Well just like everyone else, Homer is partial to the bikes he owns, one reason he owns them I guess! LOL

Me, I've always has a ton of fun out of our 2000 and 2001 bikes. True, they have an Indian assembled S&S EVO motor but they produce good power and mine have never failed or required repair (knock on wood). The 2000 is completely stock less the California emision system and pulls 84 hp. Compared to my 02 twinkie motor FLHTCI with 67 hp, its pretty stout. The 01 has the Indian wet primary found on the later bikes. With a mild cam and less emisions came in at a little above 87 hp. On that bike we went back to the stock cam and original ignition curve and hit 112 hp on nos which kicks at 4200 rpm. I need to do some work on the pipes, right now I have just straight short drag pipes with power cones.....actually sounds wicked but too loud for me and the neighbors, so still some work to do.

All that being said, not many people can tell a 01 from an 02 without a closer look at the motor. Most HD riders get focused on the "fender skirts" and like the classic look. I like the bikes we have. Enjoy being able to find parts right off the shelf most anywhere and at a reasonable cost. The comeback of Indian will really help the 02-03 owners since I think they will stick with the same basic design but improved motor. That means parts will be easier to comeby.

To those of you who don't have one, its a trip. I can park either bike in a sea of HD bikes and draw a crowd everytime. The wife has enjoyed listening to the "chick on an Indian" comments and then flat blistered some poor old HD bad boys and their motor company correct doo-rags! 20 extra hp and gender doesn't matter. LOL:p

Post Edited (The Real Pappy) : 11/22/2007 2:40:39 AM GMT


Posted By : homer14 - 11/21/2007 8:30 PM
yeah pappy..i like the 99-01 chiefs and all year scouts....spirits are chiefs with fender envy..lol... the 99-01 chiefs are slung a little lower.. i like that look.. incorporate that in with the updates of the PP's and you have the perfect bike--imo...

Posted By : The Real Pappy - 11/21/2007 9:16 PM
I like the low ride given my 14 inch inseam.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/21/2007 9:39 PM
I'm a BIG PP MAN!!.
But--I'll admit--the Little Chiefs are a blast to ride.
Kind of like sports car compared to a big ass old OLDSMOBILE.
Totally different handling.
Every time I ride a Little Chief I think serious about buying one for tripping around town.
Highway is a different story--I wouldn't give up an '03 Vintage for ANYTHING else out there.
But he will wear you out trying to throw him around town all day.

Hey Homer.
One more request.
Can you kind of let the KM boys in on a secret?
Indian was NOT the first American Production Motorcycle.


Hey Pappy.
You got one thing right for sure.
I NEVER pass up the free food at the local Harley Shop.
We have one in the KC area that has a cookout every other weekend.
The woman who owns it gets mad as hell when I pull in and park right out front next to her new bike display.
Nothing draws a crowd like an Indina Chief.
Almost to the point of being annoying sometimes.
I ALWAYs take time to stop and talk to folks--but sometimes it just almost gets to be bothersome when your in a hurry.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 11/22/2007 4:46:43 AM GMT


Posted By : homer14 - 11/22/2007 12:54 AM
Do tell KC...i don't know about that... but the putting the engine on the bike in 1901 was Indian.. i think they may have started selling them in '02.. then American started in 1902, then HD in 1903..then there were a bunch after that... i think there were others working in other countries simutaneously...
you can tell them on the website if you like...don't need me to tell them that.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 11/30/2007 9:59 AM
homer14 said...
Do tell KC...i don't know about that... but the putting the engine on the bike in 1901 was Indian.. i think they may have started selling them in '02.. then American started in 1902, then HD in 1903..then there were a bunch after that... i think there were others working in other countries simutaneously...
you can tell them on the website if you like...don't need me to tell them that.
Yeah homer14 that is my understanding of history too (1901 Indian Original).  Some like to rewrite it for some reason or another or maybe they just didn't learn it very well - very few who have lived it left.
 
Sort of interesting the place in time we are in - the revivals going on.  As well as the metrics that just keep pushing the envelope concept wise.  Seem as though there is a market for all segments of the industry, New - Old - In between - Metric - American.  As the market turndowns happen there is even more differentiation and competition.  Meanwhile production cut backs and the scramble to stay afloat financially.
 
Regarding the subject of this thread - Indian Motorcycle Revival.  I am glad to see it in my lifetime.  Gilroy was a start - but rushed.  Now we will see a different approach.  I loved the look and feel of the Gilroys and what "modern" aspects they had as well.  I hope this Kings Mountain group stays with and improves upon that concept.  With the fixes to those things you mention. I think that is the proper niche for the revival of Indian.
 
I agree with your comments on mudslinging as well.  I don't like it on any forum I visit.  Makes one feel there are "insiders" and everyone else means nothing.  Even that KC Cheef guy on this thread has at least started to post that he really loves Indians.  Not sure why he was so negative at first.  I am sure most Indian owners would feel interested and hopeful that this time around they are about doing it right.
 
Interesting to think that we could be in a time of history where the original american motorcycle is making a comeback.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 12/1/2007 3:00 PM

Must have just learned about the Orient-Aster. The Orient-Aster was manufactured by Waltham Manufacturing and it used a French built engine so some do not consider it the first American, but that all depends on whom you ask.

 

Charles Metz, who founded Waltham Manufacturing, later partnered with Marsh Motorcycle Company in 1905 to create the American Motorcycle Company. 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/3/2007 5:01 PM
First American Production Motorcycle is still the first.
Orient Aster.
Spin away but history can't be rewritten to suit your wishes.

Posted By : homer14 - 12/3/2007 7:23 PM
cool..thanks KC! i did some reading.. I knew about (kinda) the steam powered bikes and such in europe, but didn't know any of them made bikes here that early. 
 
 Orient Aster, built by the Metz company Waltham, Massachusetts. 1898. It used an Aster engine which was a French-built copy of the DeDion-Buton. It predated the Indian (1901) by three years, and Harley-Davidson (1902) by four.
Also found Thomas Auto Bi--1901 too..and the CMC--yes California motor company, 1902; then HD..
 
eh, i really don't care.
Indian being my fav had nothing to do with when it was started.  well, we can still brag "before HD", lol...

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 12/5/2007 1:01 PM
Well I could be wrong but I don't know if we'll ever know exactly who was "first" because it depends on your definition. 
 
First bicycle to successfully add on an engine?
First motorcycle built in the US with Foreign Engine (KC Cheefs latest Choice)?
First all american motorcycle bui8lt in the US with US parts (I think that is Indian - could be proven wrong though)?
First one to build a Prototype?
First one to Incorporate for the purpose of Building Production Motorcycles?
First one to roll of a marketable mortorcycle in the US?
First one to sell a motorcycle in the US?
 
 
Could be different answers to all of these.  Spin it how you want.  I believe Indian was the first American Motorcycle - period.

Posted By : louemc - 12/5/2007 1:29 PM
Better include the first Motorcycle manufacturer to figure out the real money is in T-shirts and every other piece of clothing and items in the house and car/truck and office place and and and. Not going to say which company though :-)


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 12/5/2007 2:04 PM
louemc must be talking about DNEPR

Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/9/2007 10:37 AM
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
Well I could be wrong but I don't know if we'll ever know exactly who was "first" because it depends on your definition.


First bicycle to successfully add on an engine?

First motorcycle built in the US with Foreign Engine (KC Cheefs latest Choice)?

First all american motorcycle bui8lt in the US with US parts (I think that is Indian - could be proven wrong though)?

First one to build a Prototype?

First one to Incorporate for the purpose of Building Production Motorcycles?

First one to roll of a marketable mortorcycle in the US?

First one to sell a motorcycle in the US?





Could be different answers to all of these. Spin it how you want. I believe Indian was the first American Motorcycle - period.


Hey homer!
What do you think?
If that isn't LR it's his long lost twin brother. (That would be faggotyliar--those 2 are kind of like siamese twins--and the no more chicken strips users name could go along with old fagotys diet and excersize plan.)
LR is never wrong!!
LR will quote-insist--spin--ad throw a fit till he gets his way.

Nope--LR Orient Aster is the FIRST US PRODUCTION MOTORCYCLE.
Yes it did use a copy of the DeDion-Buton engine but if you'll do a little research so did Indian and HD when they started up.

Here is a quote from an interesting site that provides some info on the DeDion-Buton Engine.

"It was a small, light, high revving four-stroke single, and used battery-and-coil ignition, doing away with the troublesome hot-tube. Bore and stroke figures of 50mm by 70mm gave a displacement of 138cc. A total loss lubrication system was employed to drip oil into the crankcase through a metering valve, which then sloshed around to lubricate and cool components before dumping it on the ground via a breather.
DeDion-Buton used this 1/2 horsepower powerplant in roadgoing trikes, but the engine was copied and used by everybody, including Indian and Harley-Davidson in the U.S."

And as homer says Indian might be number 3 or 4 -- nothing wrong with that is there?

Hey LR--go back to your little Kingdom, and reign supreme. :p
Over here you are just another user with an opinion--you are not the king..
Kind of surprises me to see you out in public where you don't have the option of banning or suspending members who disagree with your royal decrees.

And--for you folks wo haven't been over there in a while?
Go check out Indians New website.
They have a blog, and riders photos and everything.
Still waiting to see one of the new KM motorcycles but I'm SURE it's coming soon.
LR and the crew have tried to influence Indians control of their own blog, but I'm thinking it has been straightened outnow and ANYONE is now allowed to post their Indian riding experiences.
Nice try Mike--but it kind of backfired on ya. scool

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 12/9/2007 9:51:53 PM GMT


Posted By : Harley1 - 12/18/2007 1:18 PM
Just a quick update. The prototype 2009 Indian Chiefs are being tested in and around the Kings Mountain, North Carolina HQ. (Indian Motorcycles Tests Prototype Chief) Initial pictures show that the new owners haven't strayed to far from the styling cues that helped establish the motorcycle. The true test is going to see how well their version of the PowerPlus engine performs. Has anybody in the area by chance got a peek at the big twins yet? What about you peeps over at Killboy.com? Seems like the Tail of the Dragon would be prime testing grounds for the North Carolina-based Indian Motorcycle Co.

Post Edited (Harley1) : 12/18/2007 8:22:46 PM GMT


Posted By : norton - 12/18/2007 10:43 PM
It better be one hell of a bike or in a couple of years after intruduction, we will all be reading about the death of Indian (again!).

I think that the news of HD's sales going south is an indicator of:
1.) The nostalga trend has passed
2.) There is an over abundance of heavyweight cruisers - Flooded market
3.) The economy really is taking a crap and as peoples disposable income dries up, they are making more cost effective purchases.
4.) All of the above.

Good luck to Indian, but I believe that if they are just going to race the same tired old horse (an alternative to HD) but not REALLY any better, I would have to bet against them.

As the dollar continues to shrink and money becomes tighter, the game of keeping up with the Jones will change from what expensive toy is parked in their driveway to who still has their driveway - Period!
As recession draw nearer, the consumers will be looking for bang for the buck purchases, bling will be secondary. From what I have seen so far, Indian's lineup is bling.
 
If skirted fenders (bling) is their hole card, it didn't work last time, why is this time going to be different?

This is all just my view of the topic, don't bother flaming me or trying to convert me.
Really all any of us can do is wait and see how it plays out. (I really do wish them success)


I Don't want a pickle,  I Just want to ride on my motorsickle. - Arlo Guthrie

Post Edited (norton) : 12/19/2007 5:52:10 AM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 12/19/2007 1:28 PM
Cool.  It seems they are on schedule with what they have indicated since they started their public comments (interviews).  This is going to be interesting given the market.  I am actually happy for them that they are not out on the street yet given the demand.  Hopefully they will have the kinks out when the market returns to upswing.
Harley1 said...
Just a quick update. The prototype 2009 Indian Chiefs are being tested in and around the Kings Mountain, North Carolina HQ. (Indian Motorcycles Tests Prototype Chief) Initial pictures show that the new owners haven't strayed to far from the styling cues that helped establish the motorcycle. The true test is going to see how well their version of the PowerPlus engine performs. Has anybody in the area by chance got a peek at the big twins yet? What about you peeps over at Killboy.com? Seems like the Tail of the Dragon would be prime testing grounds for the North Carolina-based Indian Motorcycle Co.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 12/19/2007 1:56 PM

Well said.  I think there are a lot of challenges ahead for them.  I do however think they already had "one hell of a bike" both design-wise (still needed more tweaking though) and aesthetcally. They appear (from the press read) to be taking the time to both fix mechanical issues and to update with solutions for new EPA requirements.

I think that if Indian gets a fraction of the market they will be happy and successful - this will mean another blow to Harley though because I think it will come at the expense of their full blown "Screaming Eagle" line.   Or people that buy the base just to mod the heck out of it immediately.  I do believe there is enough of a market to make Indian happy and successful - especially when the weak economy that you acurately point to comes back.  It seems that they have the education at the top to put together the strategy to weather the storm - especially given they are pre-production still.

Only time will tell of course.  I wish them well.

norton said...
It better be one hell of a bike or in a couple of years after intruduction, we will all be reading about the death of Indian (again!).

I think that the news of HD's sales going south is an indicator of:
1.) The nostalga trend has passed
2.) There is an over abundance of heavyweight cruisers - Flooded market
3.) The economy really is taking a crap and as peoples disposable income dries up, they are making more cost effective purchases.
4.) All of the above.

Good luck to Indian, but I believe that if they are just going to race the same tired old horse (an alternative to HD) but not REALLY any better, I would have to bet against them.

As the dollar continues to shrink and money becomes tighter, the game of keeping up with the Jones will change from what expensive toy is parked in their driveway to who still has their driveway - Period!
As recession draw nearer, the consumers will be looking for bang for the buck purchases, bling will be secondary. From what I have seen so far, Indian's lineup is bling.
 
If skirted fenders (bling) is their hole card, it didn't work last time, why is this time going to be different?

This is all just my view of the topic, don't bother flaming me or trying to convert me.
Really all any of us can do is wait and see how it plays out. (I really do wish them success)


Posted By : freebird - 12/19/2007 2:05 PM
norton said...
If skirted fenders (bling) is their hole card, it didn't work last time, why is this time going to be different?


I recently spoke with a senior Victory executive and suggested that they use various Polaris engines and transmissions to enter new market segments but was rebuffed and told that the large cruiser market was the "big pond" they wanted to play in. I don't think Polaris-Victory or New Indian really understand their target market and fail to understand that it is not a big pond. They seem to think that they can simply capture a slice of Harley unit sales but it's a little more complicated than that. There is a certain percentage of Harley owners who, after owning several Harleys over many years, decide that they want a bike that stands out in the sea of Harleys. These people want others to admire their bike and give compliments on their unique motorcycle but still be accepted in the community. These people have the option of buying a true custom, buying a Big Dog, or buying an OCC production bike all of which use either the S&S or HD engine. They also have the option of buying a Victory 100ci V-Twin and now New Indian 100ci V-Twin. Victory unit sales are currently about 7000 annually and we are unlikely to see much growth. If New Indian succeeds in selling 3000-5000 units annually these will be units sales stolen from Victory, Big Dog, OCC, and the custom boutiques rather than an erosion against Harley unit sales. Let me explain, let's say Victory nibbles away 4% of Harley owners and the custom boutiques, Big Dog, and OCC combined nibble away an additional 4% of Harley owners; what we are really saying is that there is a 8% available market share. New Indian will simply be competing for this same 8% customer base. It doesn't matter how many alternative retro-cruiser manufacturers there are vying for a slice of Harley the percentage of Harley sales that are nibbled away will remain constant (in my example this is 8% regardless of the number of manufacturers). None of these manufacturers offer a product for the general motorcycle market; they specifically offer a Harley alternative. Just to be clear, Victory, Big Dog, and New Indian are not competing against Harley for the same customer they are competing against each other for the "like a Harley but different" customer. if I had to offer a combined annual unit sale estimate I would say 18,000 units; all these manufacturers are competing for the same market segment which consists of 18,000 total annual unit sales and they are simply dividing that pie.

Post Edited (freebird) : 12/19/2007 9:33:23 PM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 12/21/2007 12:10 PM

IMO - I think you are going to see a different approach.  They have been studying all the players for awhile.   These guys have already come out and said that first year sales - they are striving for 800.  Modest beginnings with sights on complete development of a delivery chain and tweaking it front to back. 

I hope for Harley's sake that Harley does not think New Indian is only after the "Harley Alternative" market.  If they do they stand a solid chance of losing big time.  That is like Ford saying that other pick-up truck manufacturers are only vying for the F150 alternative market.  I think the Harley Alternative market may be growing faster than anyone realized - except maybe Harley - why do you think the V-rod and the "New" delayed releases?  They gotta try and differetiate the market themselves now - recognizing consumer tastes are changing.  Retro is still in look at Harley, Triumph and others returning to the look of old -= while trying to modernize and offer innovation.

The power of Indians draw I think can only be understood if you own(ed) one. As badly as Gilroy screwed the pooch, if (and granted only time will tell) the New Indian is sucessfully doing - what they say they are doing?  I think you will hear rumbling on the road and it won't just be Harley in the Heavyweight American Cruiser class anymore.

freebird said...
norton said...
If skirted fenders (bling) is their hole card, it didn't work last time, why is this time going to be different?


I recently spoke with a senior Victory executive and suggested that they use various Polaris engines and transmissions to enter new market segments but was rebuffed and told that the large cruiser market was the "big pond" they wanted to play in. I don't think Polaris-Victory or New Indian really understand their target market and fail to understand that it is not a big pond. They seem to think that they can simply capture a slice of Harley unit sales but it's a little more complicated than that. There is a certain percentage of Harley owners who, after owning several Harleys over many years, decide that they want a bike that stands out in the sea of Harleys. These people want others to admire their bike and give compliments on their unique motorcycle but still be accepted in the community. These people have the option of buying a true custom, buying a Big Dog, or buying an OCC production bike all of which use either the S&S or HD engine. They also have the option of buying a Victory 100ci V-Twin and now New Indian 100ci V-Twin. Victory unit sales are currently about 7000 annually and we are unlikely to see much growth. If New Indian succeeds in selling 3000-5000 units annually these will be units sales stolen from Victory, Big Dog, OCC, and the custom boutiques rather than an erosion against Harley unit sales. Let me explain, let's say Victory nibbles away 4% of Harley owners and the custom boutiques, Big Dog, and OCC combined nibble away an additional 4% of Harley owners; what we are really saying is that there is a 8% available market share. New Indian will simply be competing for this same 8% customer base. It doesn't matter how many alternative retro-cruiser manufacturers there are vying for a slice of Harley the percentage of Harley sales that are nibbled away will remain constant (in my example this is 8% regardless of the number of manufacturers). None of these manufacturers offer a product for the general motorcycle market; they specifically offer a Harley alternative. Just to be clear, Victory, Big Dog, and New Indian are not competing against Harley for the same customer they are competing against each other for the "like a Harley but different" customer. if I had to offer a combined annual unit sale estimate I would say 18,000 units; all these manufacturers are competing for the same market segment which consists of 18,000 total annual unit sales and they are simply dividing that pie.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/22/2007 7:52 AM
Hey strips.
I try to keep up with their announcements and press releases, and I guess I've missed where they announced production of 800 the first year.
Can you hook us up with that press release and statement?
That seems pretty aggressive to me unless they have hidden equipment--facilities--and suppliers.
Maybe they've hooked up with J&P or Custom Chrome to supply parts?
Maybe they have their suppliers in line and making geegaws and doodads necessary to build a production bike, and no one else in the industry seems to be able to get a line or rumor of those parts being in the works.
Maybe manufacturers in China?
That would kind of help keep things hidden, but it would be kind of sad for THE ICONIC AMERICAN BRAND to be getting shipped over the water piece by piece.

I'm PRETTY SURE they have no equipment or supplies in the KM facility--unless MY sources are wrong and I'm doubting they are--still nothing but pretty much empty warehouse space.
I'm guessing there will be a flurry of activity in the next month or so to allow them to make the latest production prediction.

And?
Any chance of updated pictures, and progress reports on the new facility.
Funny how you kind of lose track of what they are doing unless you try to stay right on top of it.
I did read an article the other day that kind of intrigued me.
Building has begun on that new facility, but the final design hasn't been approved as of the date of the groundbreaking, and the date of the article I read.
I know there are a lot of things I wouldn't understand about the construction business but it sure seems like plans would be finalized before construction would begin.

I keep thinking back to that Moet Champagne Chief.
What do you reckon?
Will those be the first Indian Motorcycles to roll off the assembly line?
If they are I'm sincerely hoping they've figured out the wine cooler accessory -- it'd be a sad day in motorcycling history to have the Iconic Brand fail because someone dropped the ball on a wine chiller accessory.
I just hope they realize the importance to most bikers that wine cooler option plays when you want to ride a damn motorcycle.

Happy Holidays you all.
Hey Strips--I'll check in for the article on the predicted production number.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 12/22/2007 5:13 PM

From Indian's Web site -

Q5. How's it going?
AnswerFabulous. We're currently testing prototypes of the 2009 Chief, building our flagship dealership just outside Charlotte, North Carolina, franchising Indian dealers throughout the country and partnering with some of the most respected, creative leather and fashion designers in the world to create a premium line of official Indian riding gear and apparel.

Q10. When will you offer factory tours?
Answer: Our factory's current priority is completing testing of the 2009 Chief, bringing it to market and finalizing design and engineering specifications for future models. We fully expect to offer tours as soon as practicable once we're past startup mode. Details will be posted on the site as they become available.

















Stephen Julius, Chairman of the Board



Stephen: What Indian needs is to be treated right ... its past needs to be respected, its future recognized. Our goal is to build a high-quality, beautifully designed motorcycles that fulfills the promise of the brand.

Stephen holds a bachelor's and master's degree in Classics from Magdalen College at Oxford University. He also has a Master of Business Administration from Harvard University's Graduate School of Business. Chairman Stephen marches to a somewhat unique entrepreneurial drumbeat. One dedicated to removing revered industrial icons from the endangered-species list and restoring them to glory and profitability.

Today, six years after acquiring bankrupt Chris-Craft Industries -- like Indian, a company with a century-long tradition of producing mechanically advanced, beautifully crafted cruisers -- and rebuilding it into one of the world's leading powerboat companies, Julius is totally committed to Indian's long-term success.

"Restarting businesses is always hard work, but immensely satisfying," he says. "For me, this is a ten- , fifteen- , twenty-year project. Brands such as Indian were not created overnight and they can't be re-created overnight. Testimony to the power of the brand, and to the greatness of the founders who established it, is that after 50 years of being dormant the brand name is still a household word among motorcycle riders."

"The only way we will establish credibility is by designing and making high-quality motorcycles backed by a caring dealer network. The tracks we leave will be no more and no less than the quality of what we build. "

Steve Heese, President



Steve: Our goal is take the 20th Century legend that is Indian and reanimate it as a dynamic, profitable enterprise respected as much for its business stability as its motorcycles.

After six years as President of Chris-Craft, working with Stephen Julius to restore that prestigious American brand to the ranks of the world's most elite recreational powerboat builders, Steve Heese is uniquely qualified to refine and apply the new Indian business model.

With a bachelor's degree in accounting from Tulane University and a master's degree in business administration from Harvard University's Graduate School of Business, Heese has both the education and experience necessary to perform the sophisticated number crunching required by startup and turnaround companies.

"We're going the make Indian the de facto standard in premium cruiser motorcycles and extreme customer satisfaction service," he says. "And we're going to do it at enough of a profit to ensure that the company will remain alive and well for a long, long time. Maybe even another hundred years."


Chris Bernauer, General Manager



Chris: “We have an outstanding team of industry veterans throughout the company. We will build our motorcycles with a craftsmen mentality with an engrained passion to build high quality motorcycles. Our number one priority is to create a beautiful motorcycle with a high level of quality which will become the benchmark for the motorcycle industry.”

An eleven-year veteran of Harley-Davidson at such high-echelon posts as Powertrain Development Engineer and Sportster Platform Director, Chris, who's been riding since he was ten and wishes he'd started younger, has a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Wisconsin Madison and an MBA from the Kellogg School of management at Northwestern University


Nick Glaja, Vice President of Engineering



Nick: Everything we build, now and in the future, is going to fully deserve to carry the Indian brand and be based on a sound engineering foundation. My number one priority is to provide just that.

Nick comes to Indian from Harley-Davidson, where he was the Principle Engineer of Powertrain Technology, and from Victory Motorcycle, where he served as Powertrain Group Manager. Calling his involvement in Indian's rebirth the "most exciting and challenging opportunity" of his 27-year career, Nick supervises the engineers and technicians, all of them riders, in the Product Development Team, tasked with designing, testing, and acquiring components for the new Chief.


Gary Busch, Director of Dealer Development



Gary: Our dealers will be passionate, well-capitalized partners who are totally committed to America's first motorcycle brand and bringing its legend back to the Interstates and two-lanes.

A long-time motorcycle enthusiast and automotive/motorcycle industry executive with 30 years experience in sales and franchising, Busch remarked at the groundbreaking to Indian’s first new dealership now being built in North Carolina that, “this new Indian dealership will serve as the model for all future dealerships to come. We have already identified a number of candidates in the top 50 metro markets that we are working with to become new Indian Retailers. It is amazing how many people have such a great passion for this brand and literally want to devote their lives to seeing Indian live again. What an exciting time for this legendary brand as it comes to life.

Everyone of our new dealerships will deliver an exclusive Indian Experience, staffed with Indian-centric sales people and Indian factory-certified mechanics. This is the right way to build a dealer network and that's the way we're going to do it."


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/22/2007 9:36 PM
Well--I guess I'm still missing the part about 800 bikes the first year.
Yep--that's a blurb from the Indian site--pretty nice website and blog.
First thing they should be looking into is QC'ing that boy with the grinder--then kind of asking the welder why he's shielded to light up on a bike with chrome forks next to his arm.
Maybe finish isn't part of the 100 year plan?

I do like the shit out of that rim they have laying on the table in the conference room.
Gilroy did get some things right--and that '04 rim is one of the things I love the hell out of.
Thinking about buying a set--hard to trck sown--but I got "FRIENDS IN THE BIDNESS"

Hey--strips--PM me--got a little news for you on another little tip got on some work being done inside the factory and dealership/showroom.
Weird as hell how I keep meeting or know folks who have a little part in that whole Indian shenanigan down south.
I'm getting a pretty good collection of interesting info.

Hey--word is the Boys on KM are kind of misbehavin' lately.
Flexing muscle at folks who've been around log before the Steves ever even heard of Indian Motorcycle.
Shameful--but expected considering their understanding of the motorcycle world.

Posted By : basshole - 12/24/2007 1:44 PM
They sure are arrogant for a company that ain't produced $hit. Put some product on the pavement and then maybe I'll get interested. Until then it's all just hot air with nothing behind it.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : homer14 - 12/31/2007 9:58 AM
Haven't been here in a bit....
Arrogant? I don't think I get that one...it seems they have goals and have set the bar high for themselves, and their money...i wish them success..
KC, the 800 was a figure given to us at the meeting in Branson..don't think that was made "public"...they said they came up with that figure based on several criteria--don't remember the specifics..i think time and dealer profit were among them..they mentioned having initial dealerships close to the factory (i guess that's where the factory owned dealership comes from) so they could get fast feedback and engineering review of the bikes..
i imagine what they are doing with the dealership is a "design/build" or "fast track" approach...pretty common....you know what you want but haven't finalized all the details, but with the funding in place, work crew, weather, etc on your side, you start with the big picture things that are finalized..
happy new year to all

Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/1/2008 10:23 PM
homer14 said...
Haven't been here in a bit....
Arrogant? I don't think I get that one...it seems they have goals and have set the bar high for themselves, and their money...i wish them success..
KC, the 800 was a figure given to us at the meeting in Branson..don't think that was made "public"...they said they came up with that figure based on several criteria--don't remember the specifics..i think time and dealer profit were among them..they mentioned having initial dealerships close to the factory (i guess that's where the factory owned dealership comes from) so they could get fast feedback and engineering review of the bikes..
i imagine what they are doing with the dealership is a "design/build" or "fast track" approach...pretty common....you know what you want but haven't finalized all the details, but with the funding in place, work crew, weather, etc on your side, you start with the big picture things that are finalized..
happy new year to all


Well?
There ya go Homer.
Yep--I missed the Branson presentation--busy with other things.
How would chickenstrips know the magic number of 800 if he wasn't at Branson?
What do you reckon?
Old Last Resort maybe incognito?
Kind of fits his style don't you reckon?

Interesting times right now--I can't wait to see what happens in the next 6 months or so.

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 1/2/2008 5:40 PM
I've worked in product and manufacturing engineering in some pretty big plants before.

Indian would be better off producing 10 really perfect bikes the first year, rather than 800 that have "issues".

If they really bite the bullet on design and QC right from the get-go, they will be money ahead in the long run.

I've been involved in products where that was not the philosophy, and the results were big losses in money & reputation.

In all my years in the engineering business (over 30 years now) I've never had a manager come to me and say: "Make sure this comes out perfect. If it takes longer or costs more, we're still gonna get it right. This has to be a first-class product!"

What we always heard was: "This has to be out on schedule no matter what! If it doesn't quite work right we can always fix it later."

That was at companies whose businesses have all since gone in the crapper.

Let's hope things at Indian will be different.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com


Posted By : GeoffG - 1/2/2008 7:56 PM
CaddmannQ said...
...What we always heard was: "This has to be out on schedule no matter what! If it doesn't quite work right we can always fix it later."

Yeah, and then if there is a problem, is it ever the management that gets blamed? No, of course it's the engineer who designed it... (I've worked in large scale manufacturing myself)

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/3/2008 11:56 AM

Yeah it is sort of funny how there are a lot out there that don't get that.  Everyone wants Indian out yesterday but very few give them their props for taking their time to try to get it right (which still remains to be seen - but one would assume they are doing what they are saying to this point - no reason to doubt it yet). I think it is great and will be hopeful that they are the real deal.

And - keeping the info close to the vest - even to the point of bypassing a lot of the "inside scoop" a lot of the ragtrade uses.  I have seen a few 'disses of Indian' - some with a particular axe to grind.

Seems to me so far they (Indian) are doing it right.  I hear early second quarter is targeted to be a very special delivery month - hope it comes true.  Seems I've heard where "the Steve's" were heard to say "Under promise, over deliver".  Now THAT would be a refreshing change in the "iconic brand" heavyweight cruiser motorcycle business.

GeoffG said...
CaddmannQ said...
...What we always heard was: "This has to be out on schedule no matter what! If it doesn't quite work right we can always fix it later."

Yeah, and then if there is a problem, is it ever the management that gets blamed? No, of course it's the engineer who designed it... (I've worked in large scale manufacturing myself)

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/3/2008 12:05 PM
KC Cheef said...
homer14 said...
Haven't been here in a bit....
Arrogant? I don't think I get that one...it seems they have goals and have set the bar high for themselves, and their money...i wish them success..
KC, the 800 was a figure given to us at the meeting in Branson..don't think that was made "public"...they said they came up with that figure based on several criteria--don't remember the specifics..i think time and dealer profit were among them..they mentioned having initial dealerships close to the factory (i guess that's where the factory owned dealership comes from) so they could get fast feedback and engineering review of the bikes..
i imagine what they are doing with the dealership is a "design/build" or "fast track" approach...pretty common....you know what you want but haven't finalized all the details, but with the funding in place, work crew, weather, etc on your side, you start with the big picture things that are finalized..
happy new year to all


Well?
There ya go Homer.
Yep--I missed the Branson presentation--busy with other things.
How would chickenstrips know the magic number of 800 if he wasn't at Branson?
What do you reckon?
Old Last Resort maybe incognito?
Kind of fits his style don't you reckon?

Interesting times right now--I can't wait to see what happens in the next 6 months or so.
 
Seems like you "miss" a lot. There was tons of information coming out of Branson, MO from what many have told me.  My understanding is there is a group of Gilroy Indian Riders that created and continued to hold an Indian-Centric rally in the off years and got the head honchos there last year - sounded like good info, direct info to me. Not sure who Old Last Resort is dude, but you certainly seem fixated.  Best of luck to you and happy new year.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/3/2008 2:38 PM

:p LOL - I guess you got me – “Cheef”.  I have heard a lot of positive feedback from Branson and the talk the group had with the people from Kings Mountain.  I just finished rereading some of my collection of online Indian related articles and see the number 800 a lot.  But it is in reference to the 800 jobs being created by the owners of Indian/Chris-Craft and what they will be doing at Kings Mtn – not 800 bikes.  I guess they may have announced some number in Branson and the 800 number just got stuck in my head from the news articles I have read out there  – LOL lol  

Well 800 jobs and 800 bikes – one man one bike – that is a good start!!  LOL freaked

Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 1/3/2008 9:42:13 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/7/2008 5:49 AM
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> :p LOL - I guess you got me – “Cheef”. I have heard a lot of positive feedback from Branson and the talk the group had with the people from Kings Mountain. I just finished rereading some of my collection of online Indian related articles and see the number 800 a lot. But it is in reference to the 800 jobs being created by the owners of Indian/Chris-Craft and what they will be doing at Kings Mtn – not 800 bikes. I guess they may have announced some number in Branson and the 800 number just got stuck in my head from the news articles I have read out there – LOL lol <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Well 800 jobs and 800 bikes – one man one bike – that is a good start!! LOL freaked


Well?
I'm thinking 1 bike would be a good enough start to make a lot of folks happy.
And I'm thinking they better start hiring folks to meet their last deadline.

Seems like the construction is kind of slow on that new building from what I'm hearing.

I guess Stellican erects buildings like they build bikes.
Gonna be done RIGHT not fast.

I kind of figure they erected enough metal buildings in the South that they'd kind of like have that down by now.
Maybe the architect STILL doesn't have finalize plans?

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/9/2008 6:42 PM
Hey - just saw the January 2008 issue of "Dealernews" - on page 12 there is quite an interesting article called "Indian Scouts for a Few Good Dealers".

Seems they are moving forward with something. This is going to be fun to watch. I couldn't figure out how to scan the article and attach it here but I typed the first paragraph quoted below for you all.

“While the official launch of Indian Motorcycles still looms somewhwere in mid-2008, a company official says the resurrected brand has received more than 1,800 inquiries from potential dealers over the past six months. Of those, the company has filtered down the requests to around 250 good leads , says Gary Busch, director of dealer development.”

Wonder when that first bike is actually going to roll off....

Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/9/2008 9:08 PM
Yep--and it seems like they are loosening up a bit in their dealership requirements.
Seems like the car dealerships are becoming interested again!!!!!
Spin time chicken strips.

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 1/14/2008 11:37 AM
Just got an e-mail newsletter from Indian.
Anyone else get it?

Posted By : basshole - 1/15/2008 8:28 PM
They'll never make it. Sorry. They missed the boat and now the lack of disposable income and tighter credit. Not a recipie for success for anxious stock holders.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/16/2008 5:06 PM
Hey a buddy of mine gets the Indian newsletter. Concept of their standalone dealerships in there. Guess it is the model of the one they are building as the model. Cool. Looks like there are some shots of some bikes they are testing too. This is going to be a fun to see what they come up with. Hope it rocks - would be nice to see something new (or old and revived) in this slow market. Give us something to talk about!!! ROFL
 
burger 
 
Hey - same buddy sent me this today (01/17/08)
 
 
Sounds good to me - guess it won't be long until I see one!
 
Now spin away all you contrarians - LOL

Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 1/18/2008 12:22:19 AM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/17/2008 6:29 PM
WOW!!
I sure hope they build bikes better than they shoot video.
Okay strips--what exactly is it about that video that convinces us they have anything other than a Gilroy Chief?
I tried slow mo--stop action--and everything else I could think of to get a look.
Dark and shadowy--blurred, and inaudible.

I will agree--it does sound good--not as good as my Malfa'd Gilroy Cheef with RB Racing pipe--but pretty damn good.

Posted By : basshole - 1/17/2008 9:51 PM
was that video suppose to prove something?? LOL


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/21/2008 9:06 AM
Hey basshole.
Which video do you refer to?
The original one that was posted has been replaced by a second one.
There were a LOT of negative comments below the original video.
It was taken down by the poster, and replaced with another clip.
The second clip can not be responded to until the reply has been approved by the poster.
What do you reckon the reasoning behind that would be?

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/22/2008 6:45 PM

Here is the "new link" to the prototype Indian running in North Carolina.  Motor sounds pretty good for fuel injected.  It will be interesting as they show us more what it looks and feels like close up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHwp1XRTzOo



Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/23/2008 7:41 AM
Hey strips.
Yep--that's the video they replaced the original with.
Check out the comments below the clip.
They have filtered the comments section, soo about all you'll see are (GOOD COMMENTS)
The original video that was taken down reflected about an 80-20 BAD to GOOD ratio.

I have a friend from another country who I keep in touch with.
Helped him keep from buying a piece of crap Indian one of the old Indian Dealers was trying to sell him.

He teaches video editing in a college over there.
He is an Indian fanatic.
In his opinion that video has been purposely doctored to hide the bike. (Pixelated to intentionally blur the motorcycle.)
A LOT of folks think it MIGHT be a Gilroy Chief with FI.
Been painted black.

One thing I'd like to know?
What the hell exactly is that motorcycle supposed to be?
Are they saying it is a brand new KM Chief?
Are they saying it is a brand new built from scratch--highly engineered redesigned Kings Mountain Motorcycle?
Frame built by KM?
Engine built by KM?
Sheet metal built by KM?

I sure hope the answer to those questions is yes.
They've had almost 5 years to get it done.
If it is--the Motorcycle Gods must be smiling down on Stellican.
Still only 7 cars in the Parking lot of the factory yesterday.

And?
Seems like the gremlins continue to attack that new plant they are building.
Got any recent pics of the progress going on?
I recieved a few yesterday, and I'm thinking shortly you'll be seeing an announcement that NEW FACILITY might have to be delayed by about 6 months!!!!!

freaked

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 1/23/2008 2:44:19 PM GMT


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 2/4/2008 3:26 PM
New plant?
 
What happened to the plant they bought in Kings Mountain?

Posted By : KC Cheef - 2/4/2008 6:24 PM
Big Chief said...
New plant?


What happened to the plant they bought in Kings Mountain?


Sorry for the mistype.
I mean to say Showroom/Dealership.

Hey Homer.
If you still get on here can you update us on the new Dealership/Showroom that is being built?
Seems it was due to be completed this summer.

To tell you the truth?
I'm kinda stoked about it being finished.
That should mean they will have product to sell.

Maybe T-shirts and hats, and POSSIBLY a motorcycle.

I'm planning on riding down there for the grand opening.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 2/8/2008 5:07 PM
 
KC Cheef said...
Hey strips--the Motorcycle Gods must be smiling down on Stellican.
Yes - I think they are from what I'm hearing. 
 
All truths are known in time.burger

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 2/12/2008 4:14 PM
Hey - I just heard a couple of those Iron Indian Riders got a "pre-Tour" of the factory. Guess they were sworn to secrecy under penalty of losing their first born - but... word is - quality is way more than Job 1 and it sounds like it is going to be one hell of a machine. Can't wait. I think I will wait until the dust settles after release and get some test riding miles in if they give 'em. Way I hear it they are creating very "quiet buzz". Should be fun to watch. Looks like a totally different approach to launch.

Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 2/12/2008 11:17:13 PM GMT


Posted By : martinjmpr - 2/13/2008 10:03 AM
I'm still waiting to see how many $20,000 bikes they will be able to sell in a country heading into recession, where people can't even afford to keep their houses. How many do they have to sell to stay in business?


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 2/14/2008 5:31 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say if there is any kind of waiting list at all, it'll be a waiting list of dealers looking for customers before there is a waiting list of customers waiting for bikes.
martinjmpr said...
I'm still waiting to see how many $20,000 bikes they will be able to sell in a country heading into recession, where people can't even afford to keep their houses. How many do they have to sell to stay in business?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 2/15/2008 11:26 PM
Hey Mikey. (chickenstrips)
How was your factory tour?
Yes folks--3--count them--3 SPECIALLY CHOSEN RIDERS -were given a factory tour.
LMMFAO---whatever!!!!
My question would be?
Why chose 3 people from a public board that fanatically supports your company to tour a factory?
My answer would be--because you would be able to "influence" their evaluation?

If they are so READY to DO IT RIGHT?
Why not invite the press?
Why not invite an unbiased party to tour the factory?
Hey board moderator of Motorcycle USA--would you like to get a factory tour?
Well--my money says it ain't gonna happen without a signed NDA.

martinjmpr!!
$20k motorcycles from Kings Mountain?
I believe they are looking to sell the ICONIC brand at closer to the $30k range.

Yep--things are looking up!!!!

Damn!!
I almost forgot!!!
Word I'm hearing--and you can believe it or not as you choose. (I tend to believe it)
Seems like China just might be making some more motorcycle parts here shortly.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 2/16/2008 6:29:07 AM GMT


Posted By : 02Stu - 2/16/2008 7:39 AM
Wow... KC... funny how your still at it...

Here are some of the things you've told me you knew over the last couple of years.. in all cases you knew people who knew..

1) They didn't get the $30 million
2) They will never make a bike at the factory
3) they are just going to sell the rights.
4) they will lose a lawsuit for the trademark
5) there is nobody working in the factory
6) so many more rants that I can't remember

All the above were gospel.. You knew them to be a fact.....Get over it Ed....don't let your affiliation with another company trying to build a motorcycle make you hate everyone and everything asociated with Indian... BTW how is that motorcycle company coming??? You did say they would be in production before Indian??? They have a motorcycle line yet???

Posted By : pms07 - 2/16/2008 8:57 AM
martinjmpr said...
I'm still waiting to see how many $20,000 bikes they will be able to sell in a country heading into recession, where people can't even afford to keep their houses. How many do they have to sell to stay in business?

There is no recession.  Ben Bernake even said so the other day... rolleyes   Interestingly, my local HD dealer had a better January than the last two years, selling more new bikes than in either of the previous years.  So, $20k bikes must still be selling to someone... 

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 2/16/2008 2:33 PM

HA!!  Ok CHEEF now I see someone here knows you - and it appears all you do is run around and nay say about Indian.  That list looks like the crap you have been spewing here and it seems it has all proved incorrect.  May want to check your "sources".  Here I thought it was just because you were a paid employee of a competitor - but 02Stu seems to know you from somewhere else?  Look - no problem being a "doubting CHEEF".  I have to see it to believe it too - but I certainly have no reason to doubt anything so far - except apparently you and what you're "hearing".  Looks like 02Stu knows better - I think I'll be wary as well.

02Stu said...
Wow... KC... funny how your still at it...

Here are some of the things you've told me you knew over the last couple of years.. in all cases you knew people who knew..

1) They didn't get the $30 million
2) They will never make a bike at the factory
3) they are just going to sell the rights.
4) they will lose a lawsuit for the trademark
5) there is nobody working in the factory
6) so many more rants that I can't remember

All the above were gospel.. You knew them to be a fact.....Get over it Ed....don't let your affiliation with another company trying to build a motorcycle make you hate everyone and everything asociated with Indian... BTW how is that motorcycle company coming??? You did say they would be in production before Indian??? They have a motorcycle line yet???

Posted By : KC Cheef - 2/16/2008 9:06 PM
LMFAO.
Nope--not paid--not interested enough to want to be paid.
But--I haven't been bought by IMI either.
You can't say the same can you Mikey?

Stu?
He's a good guy.
Well in the long run it doesn't matter what you or I or Stu thinks.

Looks like about 2 months will tell the story when that dealership opens.
That is still April I think--unless that changes also.

Well Mike-- you carry on.
Looks like you've called over your little "TEAM" to help you out.
Folks --all I can say is--you've got the BELIEVERS on here now.
Listen to what they say--but take it as coming from some folks who have been SNOWED!!!!

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 2/17/2008 4:10:21 AM GMT


Posted By : Andy VH - 2/17/2008 9:23 AM
I'm not a cruiser rider, never owned a Harley. But I have been riding for 35+ years and been watching the cycle industry since the late 60s. If Indian can make it, more power to them because it is sad that a name associated with such a great part of cycle history should ever pass away.

Now though, it'll take a LOT more than some flashy clothing/jacket line to get this going. It'll take a LOT more than another NEW factory to get this going (why does it always have to be a new factory, same for Henderson). It'll take a good solid dealer network to get this going (that wasn't easy even for Polaris). It WILL take a real, solid, well designed cycle, with it OWN engine design and not another HD copy. It will take time, and that has always been the bane of this industry.

Someone new comes along, sometimes with fantastic designs, but the investors yank the dollars out before the new company even has a chance to grow. It'll take at least five years of little actual net gain before a new product establishes itself. Motorcycles are extremely personal and passionate vehicle choices. But to investors they are nothing but money generators or money losers. Unless those investors are cycle passionate people like you and me, I doubt the run will be very long again.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
Get MSF trained, check out: http://www.msf-usa.org


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 2/18/2008 11:26 AM
I agree with all that Andy - part of my excitement is what I have "heard"...
Andy VH said...
I'm not a cruiser rider, never owned a Harley. But I have been riding for 35+ years and been watching the cycle industry since the late 60s. If Indian can make it, more power to them because it is sad that a name associated with such a great part of cycle history should ever pass away. TOTALLY AGREE - THEY HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THIS IN PRINT AND FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD - FACE TO FACE WITH GILROY OWNERS IN THE MIDWEST LAST YEAR.

Now though, it'll take a LOT more than some flashy clothing/jacket line to get this going. It'll take a LOT more than another NEW factory to get this going (why does it always have to be a new factory, same for Henderson). I AGREE AND FURTHERMORE - IT APPEARS THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING.  THEY HAVE ALLUDED TO IT IN PRESS AND NOW I GUESS THESE IRON INDIAN GUYS WERE IMPRESSED AS WELL - DON'T KNOW WHAT GOT THEM THE NOD TO GET IN THERE BUT THE FEEDBACK IS IT HAS TAKEN LONG BUT IT IS COMING OUT RIGHT - I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING FIRSTHAND. 
 
It'll take a good solid dealer network to get this going (that wasn't easy even for Polaris). It WILL take a real, solid, well designed cycle, with it OWN engine design and not another HD copy. It will take time, and that has always been the bane of this industry. WHAT IS INTERESTING TO ME IS THAT THEY HAVE "STOLEN" SOME OF THE KEY POLARIS AND HD PEOPLE IN SOME OF THEIR MOST SUCCESSFUL RECENT EFFORTS - I THINK THAT IS SMART - TO GET THAT CRUISER SEGMENT EXPERTISE AND RUN IT.

Someone new comes along, sometimes with fantastic designs, but the investors yank the dollars out before the new company even has a chance to grow. It'll take at least five years of little actual net gain before a new product establishes itself. Motorcycles are extremely personal and passionate vehicle choices. But to investors they are nothing but money generators or money losers. Unless those investors are cycle passionate people like you and me, I doubt the run will be very long again.  ONE THING HERE IS THAT THE ATTENTION TO PROCESS HER HAS BEEN PAINSTAKING AS WE ALL ORE OUT RIDING - WONDERING WHAT THEY ARE UP TO - AND THE BEST PART OF ALL IS THAT THE GUYS RUNNING THE SHOW AER THE INVESTORS.  SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD BET THEY WILL SEE IT THROUGH INSTEAD OF JUST THROWING MONEY IN AND BAILING - IT HAS BEEN ALL THEIR MONEY SO FAR.
IT HAS BEEN FUN TO WATCH AND TRY TO GATHER TIDBITS WHERE I CAN - I COULD BE WAY OFF THE MARK - HISTORY IS 20/20 - BUT WATCHING AND PLACING YOUR BETS - MINE IS THAT INDIAN WILL COME OUT -BE A KICK ASS CRUISER - DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS OUT THERE - BE EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH A DOWN MARKET.  THAT IS MY OPINION BASED ON MY RESEARCH - BUT THEN WE KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS WORKING FOR COMPETITORS THAT DISAGREE - TIME WILL TELL.
 

Posted By : martinjmpr - 2/19/2008 8:26 AM
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
IT HAS BEEN FUN TO WATCH AND TRY TO GATHER TIDBITS WHERE I CAN - I COULD BE WAY OFF THE MARK - HISTORY IS 20/20 - BUT WATCHING AND PLACING YOUR BETS - MINE IS THAT INDIAN WILL COME OUT -BE A KICK ASS CRUISER - DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS OUT THERE - BE EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH A DOWN MARKET.  THAT IS MY OPINION BASED ON MY RESEARCH - BUT THEN WE KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS WORKING FOR COMPETITORS THAT DISAGREE - TIME WILL TELL.
 
 
How is a 45 degree OHV V-twin that looks identical to a Harley except for the valve covers and valanced fenders "different from what's out there?" 

Besides the name, what does Indian offer a potential customer?  If I put round valve covers and valanced fenders onto an HD would anyone but a dedicated Indian rider know the difference?  For that matter, if I painted "Indian" onto the tank of a Kawasaki Drifter would anyone but a dedicated Indian fan know (or care) about the difference? 

Indian and Norton could have bucked the trend and tried to make something new with their legendary names.  Indian could have dipped into their history and made a unique 4-cylinder bike. Norton could have followed Triumph and made sportbikes that challenged the best rides from Italy or Japan. 

Instead they both tried to milk the nostalgia market - a market that has been super-saturated for at least 8 years.  And they both tried to sell to the "boutique bike" market with their $15,000+ machines.  The "new" Norton has already gone Tango Uniform and the "new" New Indian doesn't appear to be producing anything but press releases. 

I don't really have a dog in this fight.  I don't work for a competing company and like 99.999999% of the motorcyclists out there, I am not in the market for a $30,000 motorcycle (nor will I ever be.)  It would be nice if someone in the US could come out on the other side of the big $$ bike market, and make a bike to compete with the likes of the Sporty or the Triumph Bonneville, something priced in the $6000-$8000 range.  Right now HD has that segment of the market all to themselves (at least as far as US made bikes are concerned.) 

If a US manufacturer would have made an air-cooled twin similar to the old Norton Commando (but with modern brakes and electronics) and priced it around $7k I think it could have been a big seller.  Instead they made "boutique bikes" and went out of business. 

You'd think someone would learn from these debacles, but apparently they don't. 


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 

Post Edited (martinjmpr) : 2/19/2008 3:33:38 PM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 2/19/2008 1:01 PM
Damn dude! why don't you check for pollyps while your up there? Oh and whats Elvis up to these days??:p
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
I agree with all that Andy - part of my excitement is what I have "heard"...
Andy VH said...
I'm not a cruiser rider, never owned a Harley. But I have been riding for 35+ years and been watching the cycle industry since the late 60s. If Indian can make it, more power to them because it is sad that a name associated with such a great part of cycle history should ever pass away. TOTALLY AGREE - THEY HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THIS IN PRINT AND FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD - FACE TO FACE WITH GILROY OWNERS IN THE MIDWEST LAST YEAR.

Now though, it'll take a LOT more than some flashy clothing/jacket line to get this going. It'll take a LOT more than another NEW factory to get this going (why does it always have to be a new factory, same for Henderson). I AGREE AND FURTHERMORE - IT APPEARS THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING.  THEY HAVE ALLUDED TO IT IN PRESS AND NOW I GUESS THESE IRON INDIAN GUYS WERE IMPRESSED AS WELL - DON'T KNOW WHAT GOT THEM THE NOD TO GET IN THERE BUT THE FEEDBACK IS IT HAS TAKEN LONG BUT IT IS COMING OUT RIGHT - I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING FIRSTHAND. 
 
It'll take a good solid dealer network to get this going (that wasn't easy even for Polaris). It WILL take a real, solid, well designed cycle, with it OWN engine design and not another HD copy. It will take time, and that has always been the bane of this industry. WHAT IS INTERESTING TO ME IS THAT THEY HAVE "STOLEN" SOME OF THE KEY POLARIS AND HD PEOPLE IN SOME OF THEIR MOST SUCCESSFUL RECENT EFFORTS - I THINK THAT IS SMART - TO GET THAT CRUISER SEGMENT EXPERTISE AND RUN IT.

Someone new comes along, sometimes with fantastic designs, but the investors yank the dollars out before the new company even has a chance to grow. It'll take at least five years of little actual net gain before a new product establishes itself. Motorcycles are extremely personal and passionate vehicle choices. But to investors they are nothing but money generators or money losers. Unless those investors are cycle passionate people like you and me, I doubt the run will be very long again.  ONE THING HERE IS THAT THE ATTENTION TO PROCESS HER HAS BEEN PAINSTAKING AS WE ALL ORE OUT RIDING - WONDERING WHAT THEY ARE UP TO - AND THE BEST PART OF ALL IS THAT THE GUYS RUNNING THE SHOW AER THE INVESTORS.  SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD BET THEY WILL SEE IT THROUGH INSTEAD OF JUST THROWING MONEY IN AND BAILING - IT HAS BEEN ALL THEIR MONEY SO FAR.
IT HAS BEEN FUN TO WATCH AND TRY TO GATHER TIDBITS WHERE I CAN - I COULD BE WAY OFF THE MARK - HISTORY IS 20/20 - BUT WATCHING AND PLACING YOUR BETS - MINE IS THAT INDIAN WILL COME OUT -BE A KICK ASS CRUISER - DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS OUT THERE - BE EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH A DOWN MARKET.  THAT IS MY OPINION BASED ON MY RESEARCH - BUT THEN WE KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS WORKING FOR COMPETITORS THAT DISAGREE - TIME WILL TELL.
 


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Andy VH - 2/19/2008 10:29 PM
Actually, I fully agree with what martinjmpr is saying. Anybody and everybody these days can or does make a V-twin of whatever angle (45 degree, 75 degree, 90 degree), but it really does not differentiate that engine or brand name from the others. The next V-twin simply becomes another V-twin.

I mean, look at Yamaha. They out-did Harley with a narrow angle push-rod V-twin that makes good power and looks good. But Yamaha has no long history or heritage in V-twins. They simply built a better bigger pushrod V-twin.

Indian heritage is ripe with the unique inline four. So why not a new Indian inline four? Could be that in the cruiser market, v-twins sell and other engine styles don't, period. BMW found that our with their flat-twin cruiser. Even Harley knows that if it doesn't look and sound like a Harley it won't sell. i actually kind of surprised the V-Rod has lasted as long as it has.


Training, the best safety and performance "equipment" you can get!
Get MSF trained, check out: http://www.msf-usa.org

Post Edited (Andy VH) : 2/20/2008 5:35:12 AM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 2/20/2008 7:22 AM
Andy!!
NEVER use the word PASSION while referring to INDIAN MOTORCYCLE.
You have folks on here from another board who believe PASSION and the manufacturing of motorcycles have nothing to do with each other.
Hey--let me do a little digging around.
I do have some pics from Indian Ride on Indian Point from last summer.
I have a few you all might be interested in looking at.
They will kind of give you the general idea of what the new owners of Indian Motorcycle are all about.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 2/20/2008 10:39 AM

With those intelligent remarks - I simply have nothing to debate with you.

 

basshole said...
Damn dude! why don't you check for pollyps while your up there? Oh and whats Elvis up to these days??:p
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
I agree with all that Andy - part of my excitement is what I have "heard"...
Andy VH said...
I'm not a cruiser rider, never owned a Harley. But I have been riding for 35+ years and been watching the cycle industry since the late 60s. If Indian can make it, more power to them because it is sad that a name associated with such a great part of cycle history should ever pass away. TOTALLY AGREE - THEY HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THIS IN PRINT AND FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD - FACE TO FACE WITH GILROY OWNERS IN THE MIDWEST LAST YEAR.

Now though, it'll take a LOT more than some flashy clothing/jacket line to get this going. It'll take a LOT more than another NEW factory to get this going (why does it always have to be a new factory, same for Henderson). I AGREE AND FURTHERMORE - IT APPEARS THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING.  THEY HAVE ALLUDED TO IT IN PRESS AND NOW I GUESS THESE IRON INDIAN GUYS WERE IMPRESSED AS WELL - DON'T KNOW WHAT GOT THEM THE NOD TO GET IN THERE BUT THE FEEDBACK IS IT HAS TAKEN LONG BUT IT IS COMING OUT RIGHT - I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING FIRSTHAND. 
 
It'll take a good solid dealer network to get this going (that wasn't easy even for Polaris). It WILL take a real, solid, well designed cycle, with it OWN engine design and not another HD copy. It will take time, and that has always been the bane of this industry. WHAT IS INTERESTING TO ME IS THAT THEY HAVE "STOLEN" SOME OF THE KEY POLARIS AND HD PEOPLE IN SOME OF THEIR MOST SUCCESSFUL RECENT EFFORTS - I THINK THAT IS SMART - TO GET THAT CRUISER SEGMENT EXPERTISE AND RUN IT.

Someone new comes along, sometimes with fantastic designs, but the investors yank the dollars out before the new company even has a chance to grow. It'll take at least five years of little actual net gain before a new product establishes itself. Motorcycles are extremely personal and passionate vehicle choices. But to investors they are nothing but money generators or money losers. Unless those investors are cycle passionate people like you and me, I doubt the run will be very long again.  ONE THING HERE IS THAT THE ATTENTION TO PROCESS HER HAS BEEN PAINSTAKING AS WE ALL ORE OUT RIDING - WONDERING WHAT THEY ARE UP TO - AND THE BEST PART OF ALL IS THAT THE GUYS RUNNING THE SHOW AER THE INVESTORS.  SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD BET THEY WILL SEE IT THROUGH INSTEAD OF JUST THROWING MONEY IN AND BAILING - IT HAS BEEN ALL THEIR MONEY SO FAR.
IT HAS BEEN FUN TO WATCH AND TRY TO GATHER TIDBITS WHERE I CAN - I COULD BE WAY OFF THE MARK - HISTORY IS 20/20 - BUT WATCHING AND PLACING YOUR BETS - MINE IS THAT INDIAN WILL COME OUT -BE A KICK ASS CRUISER - DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS OUT THERE - BE EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH A DOWN MARKET.  THAT IS MY OPINION BASED ON MY RESEARCH - BUT THEN WE KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS WORKING FOR COMPETITORS THAT DISAGREE - TIME WILL TELL.
 


Posted By : basshole - 2/20/2008 10:44 AM
hop Cool! I just call em as I see em. And you are doing some serious brown nosing is all.
hop NoMoreChickenStrips said...

With those intelligent remarks - I simply have nothing to debate with you.

 

basshole said...
Damn dude! why don't you check for pollyps while your up there? Oh and whats Elvis up to these days??:p
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
I agree with all that Andy - part of my excitement is what I have "heard"...
Andy VH said...
I'm not a cruiser rider, never owned a Harley. But I have been riding for 35+ years and been watching the cycle industry since the late 60s. If Indian can make it, more power to them because it is sad that a name associated with such a great part of cycle history should ever pass away. TOTALLY AGREE - THEY HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THIS IN PRINT AND FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD - FACE TO FACE WITH GILROY OWNERS IN THE MIDWEST LAST YEAR.

Now though, it'll take a LOT more than some flashy clothing/jacket line to get this going. It'll take a LOT more than another NEW factory to get this going (why does it always have to be a new factory, same for Henderson). I AGREE AND FURTHERMORE - IT APPEARS THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING.  THEY HAVE ALLUDED TO IT IN PRESS AND NOW I GUESS THESE IRON INDIAN GUYS WERE IMPRESSED AS WELL - DON'T KNOW WHAT GOT THEM THE NOD TO GET IN THERE BUT THE FEEDBACK IS IT HAS TAKEN LONG BUT IT IS COMING OUT RIGHT - I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING FIRSTHAND. 
 
It'll take a good solid dealer network to get this going (that wasn't easy even for Polaris). It WILL take a real, solid, well designed cycle, with it OWN engine design and not another HD copy. It will take time, and that has always been the bane of this industry. WHAT IS INTERESTING TO ME IS THAT THEY HAVE "STOLEN" SOME OF THE KEY POLARIS AND HD PEOPLE IN SOME OF THEIR MOST SUCCESSFUL RECENT EFFORTS - I THINK THAT IS SMART - TO GET THAT CRUISER SEGMENT EXPERTISE AND RUN IT.

Someone new comes along, sometimes with fantastic designs, but the investors yank the dollars out before the new company even has a chance to grow. It'll take at least five years of little actual net gain before a new product establishes itself. Motorcycles are extremely personal and passionate vehicle choices. But to investors they are nothing but money generators or money losers. Unless those investors are cycle passionate people like you and me, I doubt the run will be very long again.  ONE THING HERE IS THAT THE ATTENTION TO PROCESS HER HAS BEEN PAINSTAKING AS WE ALL ORE OUT RIDING - WONDERING WHAT THEY ARE UP TO - AND THE BEST PART OF ALL IS THAT THE GUYS RUNNING THE SHOW AER THE INVESTORS.  SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD BET THEY WILL SEE IT THROUGH INSTEAD OF JUST THROWING MONEY IN AND BAILING - IT HAS BEEN ALL THEIR MONEY SO FAR.
IT HAS BEEN FUN TO WATCH AND TRY TO GATHER TIDBITS WHERE I CAN - I COULD BE WAY OFF THE MARK - HISTORY IS 20/20 - BUT WATCHING AND PLACING YOUR BETS - MINE IS THAT INDIAN WILL COME OUT -BE A KICK ASS CRUISER - DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS OUT THERE - BE EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH A DOWN MARKET.  THAT IS MY OPINION BASED ON MY RESEARCH - BUT THEN WE KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS WORKING FOR COMPETITORS THAT DISAGREE - TIME WILL TELL.
 



Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 2/20/2008 10:46 AM
Andy VH said...

Indian heritage is ripe with the unique inline four. So why not a new Indian inline four? Could be that in the cruiser market, v-twins sell and other engine styles don't, period. BMW found that our with their flat-twin cruiser. Even Harley knows that if it doesn't look and sound like a Harley it won't sell. i actually kind of surprised the V-Rod has lasted as long as it has.

That's irony for you.  smilewinkgrin   Cruiser folks are big on being "unique" but you can only be "unique" within a very narrow range of options.  It reminds me of the movie "The Blues Brothers" where the restaurant hostess said that they have both kinds of music:  Country AND Western! 
 
Like I said in the Cross Bones thread about HD, cruiser manufacturers are like Taco Bell:  Trying to come up with new and interesting ways to sell the same 6 ingredients.  :p


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 2/20/2008 11:27 AM
Not sure how I nested the responses but replies to martinjmpr and Andy Vh below.
martinjmpr said...

How is a 45 degree OHV V-twin that looks identical to a Harley except for the valve covers and valanced fenders "different from what's out there?" 

 

Well on the highest level of just being a “V-twin” of course it is not yet.  But if this was the level that everyone bought motorcycles on – there would be no Harley. Same thing for cars – there would be only Fords or something.  People do resonate with brand names and IF they differentiate – they succeed.  I guess at the core of your comment is where I see issue –“looks exactly like a Harley”.  I think even CHEEF will tell you different, Harley has a long way to come to “look like an Indian”.  At least on the aesthetics level which you raise.

Besides the name, what does Indian offer a potential customer?  If I put round valve covers and valanced fenders onto an HD would anyone but a dedicated Indian rider know the difference?  For that matter, if I painted "Indian" onto the tank of a Kawasaki Drifter would anyone but a dedicated Indian fan know (or care) about the difference? 

Well if that is what you really believe and are interested in one I would say buy it.  Drifters have sold some – but not wildfire – because they in fact are not Indians – carrying the moniker does mean something to many. Maybe not you - but that is because your interests are elsewhere – that accounts for diversity in the motorcycle market – more specifically here the cruiser class.

Indian and Norton could have bucked the trend and tried to make something new with their legendary names.  Indian could have dipped into their history and made a unique 4-cylinder bike. Norton could have followed Triumph and made sportbikes that challenged the best rides from Italy or Japan

How do you know they aren’t?  I agree - the four (or even something different) is where I’d like to see them go.  I hear they may have alluded to going that direction after once they launch what they know people are looking to them for initially – heavy v-twin cruisers.

Instead they both tried to milk the nostalgia market - a market that has been super-saturated for at least 8 years.  And they both tried to sell to the "boutique bike" market with their $15,000+ machines.  The "new" Norton has already gone Tango Uniform and the "new" New Indian doesn't appear to be producing anything but press releases. 

Your context is a bit confusing here - “tried” – are you referring to Indian of Gilroy?  They are done.  They were done in by their own poor management.  Too bad because their cruisers were taking off and they were turning the corner sales wise.  Their pursuit of the cruiser class was already a success – they blew it on quality – killed it immediately.  Indian of Kings Mountain has yet to publicly unveil a motorcycle.  So it is premature to say they have or hhave not done anything in the “nostalgia” or “Boutique” markets.

I don't really have a dog in this fight.  I don't work for a competing company and like 99.999999% of the motorcyclists out there, I am not in the market for a $30,000 motorcycle (nor will I ever be.)  It would be nice if someone in the US could come out on the other side of the big $$ bike market, and make a bike to compete with the likes of the Sporty or the Triumph Bonneville, something priced in the $6000-$8000 range.  Right now HD has that segment of the market all to themselves (at least as far as US made bikes are concerned.) 

Nothing here to quibble with – I agree would be great to see an American company in that market.  I do not think Indian is at present looking to pursue a $6000-$8000 bike.  I hear the Koreans are in the hunt though – maybe if an inexpensive bike is what is needed – they will take off – like they are in cars.  Just not the heavyweight cruisers.

If a US manufacturer would have made an air-cooled twin similar to the old Norton Commando (but with modern brakes and electronics) and priced it around $7k I think it could have been a big seller.  Instead they made "boutique bikes" and went out of business. 

You'd think someone would learn from these debacles, but apparently they don't. 

Not sure who you re referring to here as “they”. So I can’t debate it.

Andy VH said...
Actually, I fully agree with what martinjmpr is saying. Anybody and everybody these days can or does make a V-twin of whatever angle (45 degree, 75 degree, 90 degree), but it really does not differentiate that engine or brand name from the others. The next V-twin simply becomes another V-twin.
 
Actually when speaking of Indian products the Round Head v-twin DID differentiate them from Harley during their run – short lived as it was (2002-(minimal) 2004).  It was also the gross mismanagement of quality on this motor that killed them.  People loved the look and feel of the bikes – and the motor – until the quality issue tore a gaping hole in the effort.


I mean, look at Yamaha. They out-did Harley with a narrow angle push-rod V-twin that makes good power and looks good. But Yamaha has no long history or heritage in V-twins. They simply built a better bigger pushrod V-twin.
 
Indian heritage is ripe with the unique inline four. So why not a new Indian inline four? Could be that in the cruiser market, v-twins sell and other engine styles don't, period. BMW found that our with their flat-twin cruiser. Even Harley knows that if it doesn't look and sound like a Harley it won't sell. i actually kind of surprised the V-Rod has lasted as long as it has.
 
 

As I said I agree that the four – or some other motor would be great and a thing to watch for.  I do not think that just because Harley is there and has been since Indians initial demise in the 50’s that that is a barrier to market entry.  They appear to have selected a specific segment of the Cruiser class to pursue – I wish them well.  This kind of debate will continue and even grow as they come out.  It will be great to have another American V-twin cruiser to consider in that market. All remains to be seen as to how they execute this thing now that they are getting ready to roll out bikes this year.  Some will never like them – just simply not in that market.  Others will need to see their value. I wait and see as well – but it is an exciting prosepect to have another choice coming up and watch things unfold.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 2/20/2008 3:58 PM
Hey Chickenstrips.
Can you please tell us exactly which segment of the cruiser market KM has targeted?
Looks to me like a LOT of folks are thinking they are targeting wealthy types who tend to just HAVE rather than ride.
Seems to me that targeting that market would be a sad chapter in Indians continuing saga.

Posted By : 02Stu - 2/20/2008 6:03 PM
KC Cheef said...
Andy!!
NEVER use the word PASSION while referring to INDIAN MOTORCYCLE.
You have folks on here from another board who believe PASSION and the manufacturing of motorcycles have nothing to do with each other.
Hey--let me do a little digging around.
I do have some pics from Indian Ride on Indian Point from last summer.
I have a few you all might be interested in looking at.
They will kind of give you the general idea of what the new owners of Indian Motorcycle are all about.
Ed... amazing how you make up stuff to try to make a point.... no one ever said passion was a bad thing.. just not the only thing required. a lot of passionate people have failed ... there is nothing wrong with trying, with being passionate about something, but if you put a clown in charge you ought to expect a circus...
 
in fact your passionate buddy... the one you are referring to in this comment well
here's a list of things he was passionate about and going to do and this started what 3 - 4 years ago... right when Stellican was awarded Indian
 
1) build a production motorcycle company - how many production models does he have?
2) Own Indian - does he yet?
3) Shut down the IIRA - has he yet?
 
See Ed... it takes more than passion.. that is what people tried to say.. you just wouldn't listen or get it then and I don't expect you to listen or get it now. But you will continue your lame story, your finger pointing, your inuendoes, your half truths. You'll continue as long as there is an audience...
 
But if you want to talk Indian.... I will agree with your next comment... They may be targeting a richer market... one that I doubt I can be a part of...But it seems they have created a worthy product from what I have heard... and I do know and trust 2 of those that went.. I trust the 3rd I just don't know him personally. 
 
I don't like their dealer network criteria.. leaves some good dealers out... but it ain't my money so I don't get to choose how it's done... I'll just sit back sip some koolaid and watch....

Posted By : KC Cheef - 2/21/2008 6:57 AM
Stu.
It amazes me the way you boys on that board can change your stories.
You need to read through your own boards archives, and take a look at what Maldev and LR had to say about passion and its relationship to Indians restart.
I've always wondered if you all have short memories, or selective memories.
As another example?
Take an honest look through your boards archives regarding the Branson Rally.
That is another example of how you all just follow and accept instead of question and seek answers for yourselves.
As far as the 3 WISE MEN.
Come on Stu--maybe it's time to put the kool aid cup down for a minute and take a look at who they are and why they were chosen.
LMFAO--those 3 were hand picked because they are zombies.
Stu--you can think of me what you want--and say what you want about me--but one thing I'm thinking you'd have to admit is I'm honest aout my whole Indian Experience--right up to my rebuild and how it's treated me so far.
Can you say the same thing?
Honest answer time here--and you and I both know the truth of that little story don't we?

Posted By : 02Stu - 2/22/2008 7:08 AM
KC Cheef said...
Stu.
It amazes me the way you boys on that board can change your stories.
You need to read through your own boards archives, and take a look at what Maldev and LR had to say about passion and its relationship to Indians restart.
I've always wondered if you all have short memories, or selective memories.
 
I'll take the time to review the board... but you should as well..cuz I think you are wrong...

As another example?
Take an honest look through your boards archives regarding the Branson Rally.
 
I have... you seem to have a problem... you didn't even know the guy in who's honor it was started yet you spew so much negative stuff about it....sad again that you are such a negative force anymore..
 

That is another example of how you all just follow and accept instead of question and seek answers for yourselves.
As far as the 3 WISE MEN.
Come on Stu--maybe it's time to put the kool aid cup down for a minute and take a look at who they are and why they were chosen.
LMFAO--those 3 were hand picked because they are zombies.
 
You don't seem to have a problem with personal attacks on people .... until it comes to face time... then you back pedal as fast as your buddy.. remember telling me how you were gonna kick someones ass at Laughlin.. I've seen pics of you giving the man a big ole hug at that rally...

Stu--you can think of me what you want--and say what you want about me--but one thing I'm thinking you'd have to admit is I'm honest aout my whole Indian Experience--right up to my rebuild and how it's treated me so far.
 
See above for just one instance of honesty I have at least one other...

Can you say the same thing?
 
Yes I can..... in fact we used the same rebuilder... you thanked me once for telling you about him... My experience has not been perfect but the guy is a standup guy and I am happy with my choice and happy with my experience..

 
Honest answer time here--and you and I both know the truth of that little story don't we?
 
Now I answered all your questions... you've answered none of mine... you just bob and weave... spin and redirect... it's the way you operate... do what ever you have to make Indian look bad ..... you have no credibility in the Indian community... sad.. you used to be a man I would call friend...I hate to lose friends.. but some times you have to cut your losses and move on....

Posted By : KC Cheef - 2/22/2008 8:08 AM
Hey stu.
Nope--I'll call bullshit as far as Faggotyliar and my threatening to do ANY kind of physical harm to him.
That my friend is just another bullshit lie--they do come easily to you all.
Hey--take a look through this thread and see who has threatened anyone--not me--but one of your buds from the Pubic site has.
As far as face to face?
LMAO--hey--it was me that rode to Laughlin--yep there is a pic of me and Faggoty together--seemed to me like we were getting along.
Then--by the time I ride back to KC he's started a rumor I was threatening to stick people in the neck with a pencil.
Hey stu--if you actually believe I threatened to stick someone in the neck with a pencil--you are a bigger dumb ass than the guy that started the rumor.
I rode into Branson when a lot of folks were hinting HEAVILY it would be better to keep the CH away.
Stu--I have absolutely no fear of you or any of your buds--no reason for me to fear them-you guys just take all that macho talk you spout out at each other too serious.
IRIP and the vendor thing.
No I didn't know Lumpy--did you?
Once again--take a look through the archives of your Pubic Site--that rally and the reason behind the rally (Lumpy) was sold out to Stellican.
Do your archives search and come back and tell me how many times the Rallies owner has stated publicly--in no uncertain terms that the rally would never have vendors.
All of a sudden Indian turns up and bam--the ultimate vendor needs a place to promote their goodies (if they ever have any goodies to promote.)

As far as credibility in the Indian Community?
Hey--you need to get out and do a little riding.
You seem to think credibility comes from sucking up to the boys on the Pubic Site--and yes your credibility over there is directly related to how well you toe the line.
Credibility?
Hell--even Indian Kings mountain has lost their credibility among the Indian Community.
(By the way--the Indian Community is NOT the Public Site--broaden your horizons a little.)
Are you going to try to tell these folks that the recent visit to the factory by 3 SPECIALLY CHOSEN Indian Riders from your Public Board is CREDIBLE?
You crack me up Stu--seems lke the big question over on the Public Site used to be whether or not you'd taken your meds that day.

Hey--what do you say to a truce?
In about 6 weeks we should all have our answers to Indian.
That new dealership is due to open in April, and we can all see for ourselves just how things are going to go.
Oh--one queston for you.
Have you seen any recent updates on that new building?
I sure hope they kick into gear shortly.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 2/22/2008 3:31:15 PM GMT


Posted By : norton - 2/22/2008 8:33 AM
KC Cheef: I don't want this to come off wrong, but what's your problem?

To us common lay folk, It's beginning to look like you have some unhealthy obsession with the brand. There is obviously some history (ongoing feud) between you and a few others that post here, care to fill us in on what that's all about?

Thank You.


madfun said...

Sooner or later opinions fade, and the name on the tank matters not. I think that happens somewhere between 4th and 5th gear. Enjoy the ride... the rest takes care of itself.


Posted By : BLUEZ1000 - 2/22/2008 9:32 PM

Just my two copper Lincolns: This has been an interesting read--all eleven pages of it. And been fun trying to see through the smoke to some of the angles being played and agendas being pushed here. I wonder if we play "follow the money" who's enthusiam would be proven more genuine.

Anyway this saga reminds me of a proud American brand from Springfield, Mass that was "rescued" by foreign vulture capitalists only to become a glorified machine and metallurgy shop that pandered to gov't--just in it for the buck. That story has a somewhat happy ending, but because non-riders are re-starting the proud American icon Indian motorcycle company for essentially non-riders leads me to believe that once this Co. gets to be in the black, it'll be up for sale at nice profits for the investors.

And not that I would ever spend $30K for a bike (I don't make a third of their $150,000/year buyer demographic shocked ) but if I did there's hundred of custom builders that do put at least some passion into every machine.

Yeah, I know, I'm pretty negative on this deal but I want the Indian name to mean more...or something.

 

Post Edited (BLUEZ1000) : 2/23/2008 4:35:26 AM GMT


Posted By : 02Stu - 2/23/2008 6:59 AM
It's still to be seen if they are worthy of the name... if they bring Indian back to what it can be.. they've done well with other ventures... I'm optimistic but not cuz I'm buying one... you are right 30 large is just too much for a scoot... but kind of hoping that price settles some...

the Gilroys were high too but I got a new one for what a heritage woulda cost, not counting making the motor right, 4 oil pumps, wiring harness burning, new starter... so many lmore on the ist of problems with the bike.. but it's still the sweetest ride I've had... and I hope Indian can make that possible, minus all the problems, for a lot more people... if they can't I'm just out some optimism and maybe a friend or two that didn't take kindly to those that were optimistic...

Posted By : basshole - 2/23/2008 9:34 AM
Do you think investors would be satisfied with an annual output of say 1500 units? I gotta believe at the price point they want and the state of the economy, 1500 units would be huge for them but would that be enough for the investors? Personally I don't see how they can make it.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 2/23/2008 10:51 AM

Indian has said in print that the Chief will be the flagship of the brand and that other bikes models will be released at lower price points as time goes on. According to what Indian has said the next bike will be a Scout with the same engine platform as the Chief. Following that will be a new bike with a new, fully modern, engine platform.

 

So with that in mind I bet 1,500 units would be above expectations for the Chief line. It would be, as an example, what the NSX is to Acura or the Viper to Dodge.

 

Remember, HD has their CVO bikes; the CVO bikes would be the better comparison to the Chief than a standard production Harley, at least as far as pricing goes.

Post Edited (Big Chief) : 2/23/2008 10:05:44 PM GMT


Posted By : homer14 - 2/24/2008 6:48 PM
In addition to the heavy cruiser, Indian is working on their line for the future..they started with the flagship bike--i guess to prove they are real and will build a quality product...gilroy was about there with aesthetics, and starting to get it right with quality....they (indian) could have just picked up w/what gilroy left and produce the same, but they decided to slow down and get it right(er).from what i hear, the plan is to cross platforms.....that's gonna take time...new engines...new frames, etc...if they pull it off, don't be surprised to see how much the 09/10 scout sells..don't be surprised to eventually hear of indian racing again..don't be surprised to see sport tourers and sport bikes...i hope it all comes to fruition and wish them well...i'd be in the market for a new chief if i can afford it..i can't wait til the fat tire scout comes out...
eric

Posted By : martinjmpr - 2/25/2008 8:36 AM
Big Chief said...

Indian has said in print that the Chief will be the flagship of the brand and that other bikes models will be released at lower price points as time goes on. According to what Indian has said the next bike will be a Scout with the same engine platform as the Chief. Following that will be a new bike with a new, fully modern, engine platform.

 

So with that in mind I bet 1,500 units would be above expectations for the Chief line. It would be, as an example, what the NSX is to Acura or the Viper to Dodge.

 

Remember, HD has their CVO bikes; the CVO bikes would be the better comparison to the Chief than a standard production Harley, at least as far as pricing goes.

Well, I wasn't a business major but that seems like kind of a risky proposition to me.  Because if they can't sell enough of their high-priced bikes to stay in business, they won't be around long enough to introduce the lower priced ones.  Yes, Acura only sells a few NSX's but they broke into the market with the lowly Honda Civic back in the 1970s and they didn't start making the luxury models until they had already been well established making affordable and reliable cars. 
 
Same with HD and their CVO bikes.  Yes, HD sells their expensive CVO bikes, but it's all those plain-Jane Super Glides and Sportsters (and all the HD paraphernalia) that pay the light bills.  Saying that investors should keep throwing money into Indian because sometime in the future they'll introduce all sorts of revolutionary designs is an awfully lot like saying "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." 


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 2/25/2008 10:50 AM
homer14 said...
In addition to the heavy cruiser, Indian is working on their line for the future..they ...that's gonna take time...new engines...new frames, etc...if they pull it off, don't be surprised to eventually hear of indian racing again..don't be surprised to see sport tourers and sport bikes...i hope it all comes to fruition and wish them well...
eric
I wish them well too homer14.  That bit about the third release is what has me looking to their future.  If they make it that far - they should be on their way.  All evidence points to slow, learned plans - to capture part of the market and move forward - despite what the market is now - that is just to be planned around - they aren't building anything yet so it is still R&D costs.
 
On the investor bit a few have mentioned - I hope it is not that way and I think not - why?  Because if you look at the older press following Chris Craft and early Indian (current Kings Mountain crew) it was stated that Stephen Julius and Steve Heese - the investors, board and top officers did the "turnaround thing" with Riva boats.  They regretted it after - they liked the sporting business - so much so that they then went to Chris Craft.  This time out (in motorcycling) they did their homework.  They were in the due diligence stage with Ducati and passed because they (Ducati) were too highly leveraged (words from Stephen Julius himself).  Then they had the opportunity with Indian.  A fantastic historical brand name that they could rebuild right from the bottom up themselves.  This does not sound to me like a buy it and turn it situation - but we'll see.  History is 20/20.
 
As far as numbers of units if memory serves they were discussing more like 800 for their initial roll out year and then see where it goes.  It seems they have built the capacity for significantly more.  Currently the only investors I know of are the two at the top - but I could have missed some press somewhere.  But if it is that limited and they are going that slow to get it right - kinda speaks to long haul and not build to sell out IMHO.

Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 2/25/2008 7:54:35 PM GMT


Posted By : homer14 - 2/25/2008 7:09 PM
right nomo...there are no investors...i remember talking to them about being methodical and deliberate...some confused this with slow...they are prepared and apparently have pockets deep enuff to fight thru this time of rebirth...rebuilding consumer confidence and recession....their plan is not the ambitious 5 yr plan gilroy sold to investors, but a "long term" plan....10, 15, 20 yrs... as for numbers of bikes, yes, slow at first..then enuff to keep 50 dealers in business after 36 months, if the market can bare it...if not, fewer bikes and/or dealers i guess...

Posted By : Chunky Monkey - 2/29/2008 10:07 PM
I heard that Indian will be taking pre-orders from the people who put down deposits.
It looks like the rubber is ready to hit the road.

I am sure a few people will still have something to bitch about but once the bike is out they will be just like the guy on the street arguing with the tree.

Once the product is out only time will let us know if they are a success or not so shut up for 5 years or so. No amount of bitching will make the time go any faster.


Post Edited (Big Chief) : 3/1/2008 5:10:44 AM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 3/1/2008 4:59 PM
Can you share your source for that info?
Nothing on the IMI site.
Nothing on the IRG (Indian Riders Group) site.
Nothing in any Motorcycle magazines or publications.
I don't see where they plan to attend any major events anywhere in the near future.
I have a friend who has his $1000 down, and he says he hasn't been notified of that yet.

Also--did your source mention any of the small details like warranty--dealerships--or the one everyone seems to be interested in--PRICE???
It just fascinates me to no end that anyone would be willing to put down $1000 on a motorcycle that hasn't been made--has no factory support--no dealership--no announced warranty-no announced price--no clue given as to power train transmission-etc--etc--etc.

Hey Mike--how is it you seem to be the official spokesperson for IMI?


As far as shutting up for the next 5 years or so?
Well--they've owned it for almost 5 years, and nothing has happened--I guess 5 more years isn't going to hurt anything.

I do see where they have a new post in their blog.
Something about their test riders taking the motorcyles out and gong REALLY FAST on them--then SLAMMING ON THE BRAKES.
That's some funny shit right there.
I guess the new Indians should have some good brakes on them anyway!

Posted By : basshole - 3/1/2008 9:34 PM
and the pipe dream continues......


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : 02Stu - 3/2/2008 6:23 PM
KC Cheef said...

As far as shutting up for the next 5 years or so?
Well--they've owned it for almost 5 years, and nothing has happened--I guess 5 more years isn't going to hurt anything.

I do see where they have a new post in their blog.
Something about their test riders taking the motorcyles out and gong REALLY FAST on them--then SLAMMING ON THE BRAKES.
That's some funny shit right there.
I guess the new Indians should have some good brakes on them anyway!
I've gotta question your math here Ed.. I've had my chief for less than 5 years.. Gilroy was still in business when I bought it... Ya'll been claiming Stellican has owned it for 5 years for the last 3 years.. must be the new math....

Posted By : KC Cheef - 3/2/2008 6:30 PM
Good point stu.
OKAY--I'll change my post from ALMOST 5 years to Almost 4 years.
There--that's better now.

Posted By : pms07 - 3/2/2008 10:20 PM
"reserve" a 2009 Indian?  And this would be from guys that have yet to roll a motorcycle off the production line, correct?  Best of luck to them but I wouldn't reserve shit if it costs you any money...but I guess if you are an Indian fan that's the best you can hope for at this point.  I hope this venture is successful though because having another American v-twin competing against HD and Victory is good for buyers.
 
Oh yeah, KC and Stu; you guys need to take it outside to the parking lot. :-)  
 
 
 
 
 

Post Edited (pms07) : 3/3/2008 3:27:59 PM GMT


Posted By : satyride - 3/27/2008 8:33 PM
2000 bought 2001 ..what can I say?


THE SATYR makes the/ and lives by the ....RULES...his own


Posted By : homer14 - 3/31/2008 11:26 PM
those who have reserved bikes should be able to order them pretty soon...within a month or so i think..

Posted By : basshole - 4/2/2008 10:04 AM
How do you know this? Got proof or is it just your opinion. All I know is that 1000.00 they put down is losing value everyday.
homer14 said...
those who have reserved bikes should be able to order them pretty soon...within a month or so i think..


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 4/2/2008 7:07 PM
More rumblings that Indian IS coming out with the 105ci. Heard it was an official press release - but I can't seem to find a link...

Motorcycles are getting ready to roll. All of the people I have talked to that have seen them give them high marks. I am anxious to see them - hope it won't be long.
 

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 4/2/2008 7:21 PM
BTW for anyone that is a racing fan or an Indian fan I thought this was pretty cool too.... (this version of the announcement from WhyBike.com - but I have seen it many times elsewhere)....

2006 MotoGP world champion Nicky Hayden to ride April 7 at IMS
From Nicky Hayden
Posted on Tue Mar 18 6:42:22 PDT 2008

2006 MotoGP World Champion Nicky Hayden will visit the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the first time Monday, April 7 as he prepares for the inaugural Red Bull Indianapolis GP on Sunday, Sept. 14. Hayden will ride a restored Indian motorcycle, which competed Aug. 14, 1909 in the first motorized race at IMS, around the new infield [...]

Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/3/2008 7:02 PM
Yepp--I read that article too.
Straight from the horses mouth.
Nick Glaja--Head of Engineering bragging up his NEW AND IMPROVED 105 cc Power Plus heavy cruiser motorcycle Engine.
LMFAO--105 cc--is it a motorcycle or a moped?

When they can't even get a press release right?
Makes you wonder about their motorcycles.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 4/4/2008 2:29:58 AM GMT


Posted By : homer14 - 4/8/2008 5:54 AM
basshole...
i forget my source, but i think it was from letters that were received to those who have put deposits down?? not "just a feeling", but i've killed several brain cells since that post..certain about the "pretty soon"..the "month or so" was speculated time frame as passed on to me.

some seem to question the $1000.. that amount was set to pique curiosity and to get a feel for initial demand...it's low enough that those who can actually afford to buy would be willing to put down, and high enough so that everyone wouldn't "reserve" a bike just for the hell of it..contrary to the belief of some, it wasn't seed money or anything like that...it was aimed at true fans/fanatics, and not the mass market...it's fully refundable, should you choose not to buy..

comeon KC...you know that's probably just a typo by the person who quoted him in the article..

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 4/9/2008 11:20 AM
Well scouring the net for Indian stuff I found some motorcycle industry reporters that have to King's Mountaing the last few days... to paraphrase, here is what they are finding out....this from Marilyn Stemp of "Iron Works"...

"They plan to produce 750 bikes in the first year.

The Chief, accessorized to four versions, base price in the low 30’s

Looking for a 2009 model year to be released in Fall ‘08 but that’s contingent on getting the assembly line running this summer, and that depends on current engine durability testing. They are hopeful but also determined to release bikes only when they’re ready.

The staff is small but very tech heavy, mostly engineers, many with impressive track records in the motorcycle industry.

The owners are spending their own money and have one equity investor, no plans to go public. They seem to be spending as necessary, not foolishly, taking a slow growth approach.

They’ll assemble engines and whole bikes at the factory using components sourced mostly in the US, some from Europe, a bit from China for expediency, the latter to be phased out I’m told.

Same style frame as the Gilroy Indian but retooled, built using robotic fixturing.

The 105 ci Powerplus EFI engine (50 state compliant) has nicosil-plated aluminum cylinders, forged pistons (piston weight reduced to address vibration issues), new crank, more.

They’ve re-designed and re-positioned air intake, re-designed electrical system.

Trans is a Baker 6, 5.5 gal one-piece gas tank w/integral fuel pump, short and long fenders are offered.

Lower CG, seat height may be a bit lower than Gilroy bike, handlebars have been altered in both width and reach dry weight about 740.

Concerning looks, the bikes I saw incorporated refinements in styling that result in improvements over the Gilroy bike, a cohesive machine, no parts tacked on as an afterthought.

They’ve been intentionally circumspect, partly to build interest - we’ve all been wondering what’s going on and talking about them, right? - and partly to keep quiet until they get it right.

More detail provided in my article in IronWorks."

Posted By : martinjmpr - 4/9/2008 1:08 PM
$30k?
 
For a Motorcycle? 
 
750 in the first year - doesn't that put them in the same class as WCC or Confederate or CMC?  confused


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 4/10/2008 5:43 PM
HI - just read a bunch of cool stuff on some other Indian boards I visit. I wish to give proper credit to: Iron Indian Riders Association and Indian Motorcycle Community. Seems three guys that are members of both just got released from their NDA and are starting to answer questions. I think there might even be some members here. A lot of this stuff looks very positive to me. Lots of guys on this board may have seen some of this in other bikes – this is an Indian v-twin cruiser that is coming out. Lots of lessons learned from Indian of Gilroy and research and engineers acquired from other makers – most notably Harley, Victory and Honda. Part of the disclosures are higher up in this thread – here is more from some other people that were there…. Note that a lot of it discusses changes because these guys are already mostly Gilroy Indian Owners.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So ask away and I will fill you in on what I know based on what I saw and touched and heard. But if I tell you the speedo is a mixture of analog and programmable....is elevated so you can read it while riding....and has a fuel warning system to let you know when fuel is low and how many miles you have ridden since the light came on.....and that you can also check a multitude of bike information through the LCD display underneath.......some of that might be changed by the time it hits dealer floors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
still can't discuss pricing or any future models. here's a couple of things that come to my mind...

engine. from 10 feet away, it looks like a PP100. close up you start to see the differences. new castings. on the left side, indian is cast into the case under the front jug like the PP100. under the rear jug is "power plus" cast in and machined like indian is on the pp100. castings are smooth and appear to be high quality. right side has a unique cam cover. in it is machined 105. totally re-engineered.

no billet on the bike. everything comes chrome. primary, cam cover, rocker boxes, everything.

handlebars are a little different. not quite as wide and maybe pulled back a bit.

baker 6 speed.

rear drive is LHS with belt final drive. belt is 1/4 inch narrower for wider tire/

tailight is different.

seat is different. actually a lot of time was spent on the seat. real ergonomic engineering went into it. area up around where it meets tank is more flowing.

exhaust is typical OEM. has catalytic converter.

sheet metal is identical to gilroy.

tanks are shaped different and are new stamping. fuel pump pressure tank is inside the fuel tank.

there is no vinyl on the bike. all high grade leather.

dash is improved. multi-purpose gauging. dash is kinda retro to the 40's chiefs

gone are the custom chrome handlebar controls. better looking, high quality controls.

headlight is real teardrop.

brakes are brembo.

no rubber oil lines. stainless steel pre-bent.

same front fork.

switch is on the dash.

of course, EFI. "smart EFI" self tunes.

braided cables.

hydraulic clutch.

redesigned oil tank and pump.

frame is close to the same. the fundemental alignment issues are corrected.

different rear axle adjustment.

absolutely stunning selection of colors.

fender with and without skirts. awesome. primary has the same look, but is redisigned and CHROME.

chrome shifter and brake.

mono shock is a FOX shock...like was mentioned...reengineered the frame but basically the same with changes to make it better.

switch on handlebar controls is used to scroll through LCD panel under speedo

front forks look same but are actually beefier

60 spoke wheels...tubeless

12v accessory possibly where old ignition was located

long and short fendered versions available on Chief

alternator/stator is larger to handle the increased load demand and to give it the ability to actually charge the bike if ideling.

entire system is computer driven like our automobiles. Uses same setup as what Ford puts in their automobiles and will also allow ability to hook up and do complete bike diagnostics plus other things...just like in your car.

colors...olive/creme, red/creme, black/white, black, blue, and others but those are ones that caught my eye.

motor can be retrofitted but it will not fit in standard softail motor mounts...it is truly a motor engineered by Indian for Indian.

leather colors will be black, tan, and red...to include saddle bags

logo and pinstriping is all hand painted on every bike

gps connection on bike behind dash up behind speedo

one piece fuel tank, single fuel bung with NEW fuel cap

seat ergonomically designed for reach, width of legs when straddling and comfort with a 5 hour compression foam insert for more comfort on rides longer than to the local bar....nice rise to rear to help keep you in seat when accelerating...and removable backrests if I remember correctly.

.....everything was designed and built around the bike to flow and work in harmony...not a bunch of bolt ons. Lots and lots and lots of chrome.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


With the new frame - how is the balance - one thing I loved about the Gilroy PP frame is that sucker seems sweetly balanced - better than any other bike I have ridden. I did not ride one but did sit on one for quite a while..rolled it back and forth...tested balance...turned handlebars left to right...squeezed hydraulic clutch...foot position...reach to bars...etc. Foot position seems similar...much more room as there is not that huge aircleaner sticking out anymore and rather a nice clean looking chrome aircleaner cover...reach seemed better and not as wide...hand controls were definately better and easier to reach with fingers while in riding position as was reading speedo. Frame looks like exact same frame to uneducated...but you can see the changes once you lift seat and observe suspension and such...they refined it and improved where needed but still a beefy heavy son of a bitch with lots of ridgidness

Without disclosing price...is it a fair value? All that chrome and solid lines sounds way more than the stock Harley - is it worth it?I personally think based on 21 years as enlisted military man that never had any money...that based on price we all paid for our Gilroy Chiefs...that the improvements and quality are fairly represented. just from an expected reliability point of view the money and time saved would likely make it a steal compared to what we are now accustomed

What out of the box accessories - bags, windshields, 2 up seats, sissy bars, luggage racks, etc...?yes-- have to wait on accessories catalog

Any other extras like autimatic chain/belt tensioners?i seem to remember that as well but cannot be sure...it all runds to gether

Did they get "Hardened Pulleys" so the next generation doesn't have belt chirp?not an issue any longer

what about the foot boards and attachments to the bike - Gilroy had that cheap annodized aluminum that wore out around the bolts. solid and nice chrome...footboards on the Chief. One thing I did notice while there is that they used the same distance between heel and toe shifter...as with my 13 boots they would sometimes hang up and hinder shifting on my RHB...I brought it to their attention and they started taking notes and listening...so not sure if it is addressed in final version or not

Other than the nicosil coating any other vibration dampening - rubber mounted anything - engine, footboards, handgrip - anything? Is it needed - what kind of vibration in that sucker?did not ride but told it was much nicer ride than Gilroy Chiefs they had on site

These great leather seats - gel? Can they be "adjusted" to the rider - like a corbin could be reworked?not sure but they spared no expense on the seats....quality is to be better than what was available for our bikes from any of the manufacturers...not sure about custom or gel. I think we discussed it but cant remember what the answer was. I know they hand sculpted the seat contours to meet the outline of the bike from looking above...and also used special foam setup to provide both comfort and stability and reduce hotspots...they were actually cutting down the seats with electric carving knife and fitting and refitting and working with HUMAN FACTORS guys in engineering while we were there

leather bags are classic with great looks...with a sweet mounting option. The bag mounts are totally different than anything out there on market. Very secure...chromed.....sturdy....and very quick to mount and dismount. There are also hard bags available as an accessory and they are large enough to hold a half helmet...newly designed from ground up...not BeetleBags.

Posted By : basshole - 4/10/2008 9:37 PM
Thanks for the lip service. Still proves nothing since none of this can be documented for fact. Sorry.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/11/2008 8:40 PM
Hey Chickenstrips!!!

You lie about as well on here as you have on other things in the past.
Why don't you just confess to these folks who you are.
I know you think you have a superior intellect--hell that used to be referred to in your tag line n the Public Site--But I'm guessing most folks are a LITTLE smarter than you give them credit for.
LMFAO--You are about as spineless on here as in real life.
You big bad old IIRA BROTHER you.
Damn--how many aliases do you go under?
LMAO--Now tell the nice people the history of your IIRA.
And don't forget to mention the creators you took it from.
John
Alec
Rock
The Three Amigos!!!
Those names ring a bell?
LMAO

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 4/12/2008 3:48:17 AM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 4/15/2008 9:54 AM

Consider it documented.  Sorry.

Click Here: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2008/04/15/indian-motorcycle-news-from-outside-the-reality-distortion-field/

basshole said...
Thanks for the lip service. Still proves nothing since none of this can be documented for fact. Sorry.



Posted By : martinjmpr - 4/16/2008 7:20 AM
You know, the proof is in the pudding.  Who knows, maybe I'm completely wrong and people will be lining up to drop 30 large on a bike that looks like a Harley with valanced fenders.  I remain unconvinced but time will tell. 
 
Who knows, if they keep draggin this thing out, maybe we'll be coming out of the recession by the time the first models hit the street.  smilewinkgrin


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 4/16/2008 10:05 AM
Well we all know how easy it is to manipulate the media now don't we? Still doesn't prove anything or mean it'll ever be successful. How do you keep 10,000 sq. ft. shops packed to the gills with 35k bikes (oh yeah and don't forget you only plan on building 750 of em in year 1) and expect the dealer to turn a profit?
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Consider it documented.  Sorry.

Click Here: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2008/04/15/indian-motorcycle-news-from-outside-the-reality-distortion-field/

basshole said...
Thanks for the lip service. Still proves nothing since none of this can be documented for fact. Sorry.



Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 4/16/2008 10:34 AM

FYI here is more info on the "BLOGGER" you quoted

Disclosures:

1.   I am the owner of Cyril Huze Custom Inc.

2.   I have no other financial interests in any other motorcycle company.

3.   My company Cyril Huze Custom Inc. is also manufacturer and distributor of some products which can be mentioned in this Blog.

4.   A number of companies have paid for advertising and sponsorship on this site.

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Consider it documented.  Sorry.

Click Here: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2008/04/15/indian-motorcycle-news-from-outside-the-reality-distortion-field/

basshole said...
Thanks for the lip service. Still proves nothing since none of this can be documented for fact. Sorry.



Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 4/16/2008 10:37 AM
Reading this thread makes me wonder if the Indian owners are taking their business advice from the Underpants Gnomes.
 
I think their business plan is something like this:
 
1.  Build a $30,000 bike that is similar in almost every respects to a bike that costs less than half as much. 
 
2.  ?
 
3.  Profit! 
 
:p 


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : homer14 - 4/17/2008 12:50 PM
basshole, the media and some others were invited in..you'll be seeing more from other media outlets soon. As far as I can tell, Cyril, nor anyone else except Stellican and crew, has no financial interest in Indian. Cyril has no reason to not tell it like he sees it. As did Marilyn, of Ironworks mag..

The chiefs were priced 22-26k in 03.. my personal opinion is they need to be priced at a minimum 25k, but the value and dependability needs to be inherent. all chromed out, efi, pp105, tubeless spoked rims (My favs) etc..if you bought an 03 stock, chromed inner/outer primary, rockers, lower case, forward controls, hubs, passenger pegs, bag brackets, etc and then upgraded electronics, changed rims, corrected the engine, etc you'd be well over 30k...TRUST ME! and i bought my 2nd 2 yrs after i had my first one.....then add efi and the baker tranny, 2 yr warranty, plug in electronics, etc.. anything under 35 (loaded) is priced about right (based on the 02-04's) and will likely move like hotcakes..again..the buyer is the person that HAS to have that bike..i never did and never will own an HD or any other heavy cruiser as they don't fit my fancy aesthetically...there's at least a cpl thou other peeps like me in the country...other models and price points are on the way--and not just other softtails sans skirts--(think sport bikes, atvs, race bikes, tourers, etc), but I think making a well thought out and designed loaded chief is the correct way to start...i don't like everything they've done, but i like the general direction and wish them well

Posted By : basshole - 4/17/2008 4:21 PM
And as soon as it rides off the lot it'll lose $15,000.00 in value too.
homer14 said...
basshole, the media and some others were invited in..you'll be seeing more from other media outlets soon. As far as I can tell, Cyril, nor anyone else except Stellican and crew, has no financial interest in Indian. Cyril has no reason to not tell it like he sees it. As did Marilyn, of Ironworks mag..

The chiefs were priced 22-26k in 03.. my personal opinion is they need to be priced at a minimum 25k, but the value and dependability needs to be inherent. all chromed out, efi, pp105, tubeless spoked rims (My favs) etc..if you bought an 03 stock, chromed inner/outer primary, rockers, lower case, forward controls, hubs, passenger pegs, bag brackets, etc and then upgraded electronics, changed rims, corrected the engine, etc you'd be well over 30k...TRUST ME! and i bought my 2nd 2 yrs after i had my first one.....then add efi and the baker tranny, 2 yr warranty, plug in electronics, etc.. anything under 35 (loaded) is priced about right (based on the 02-04's) and will likely move like hotcakes..again..the buyer is the person that HAS to have that bike..i never did and never will own an HD or any other heavy cruiser as they don't fit my fancy aesthetically...there's at least a cpl thou other peeps like me in the country...other models and price points are on the way--and not just other softtails sans skirts--(think sport bikes, atvs, race bikes, tourers, etc), but I think making a well thought out and designed loaded chief is the correct way to start...i don't like everything they've done, but i like the general direction and wish them well


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : homer14 - 4/18/2008 2:51 PM
lol..depreciation...ain't it a bitch??? it won't loose $15, but it'll loose, just as every vehicle does the second you drive away from the dealer...alotta "smart" buyers always buy used vehicles..

Posted By : basshole - 4/18/2008 3:19 PM

How do you know it won't depreciate 15k right off the bat?  And if I'm seeing "used" Indians 6 months after they hit the market then you know you got problems.

 

homer14 said...
lol..depreciation...ain't it a bitch??? it won't loose $15, but it'll loose, just as every vehicle does the second you drive away from the dealer...alotta "smart" buyers always buy used vehicles..


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : pms07 - 4/19/2008 6:57 AM
Lots of hype and specualtion...but no bikes rolling off the line. I think martinjmpr may have nailed the business plan however. Anyway, I hope they succeed but think this might be the wrong bike at the wrong price at the wrong time.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 5/13/2008 9:13 PM
WOW!!
Check out Indians web site.

$32k for the stripped down Chief--all the way up to $39k for a VINTAGE model.
Course all your going to see is "Artist Renderings" but it looks like things are coming along nicely on the Mountain.
Hey Chickenstrips!!
What kind of reaction are your "sources" telling you the price range is receiving?
DAMN--$32 to almost $40k--that my Friends is ICONIC!!!!!!

Posted By : EdbearNZ - 5/14/2008 2:58 PM
basshole said...

How do you know it won't depreciate 15k right off the bat?  And if I'm seeing "used" Indians 6 months after they hit the market then you know you got problems.

 

homer14 said...
lol..depreciation...ain't it a bitch??? it won't loose $15, but it'll loose, just as every vehicle does the second you drive away from the dealer...alotta "smart" buyers always buy used vehicles..


Interesting to see, after all if you buy a new Rolls, you will lose about $3.5k per week...


They say you're only young once! I'm trying to make it last...


Posted By : basshole - 5/15/2008 11:49 AM
You can but 2 brand new Suzuki C109's and STILL have $$$$$ left over! $30k + for a unproven production bike in the middle of a recession with a credit crunch......Perfect timing!


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : rdawsoniii - 5/17/2008 3:11 PM
norton said...
KC Cheef: I don't want this to come off wrong, but what's your problem?

To us common lay folk, It's beginning to look like you have some unhealthy obsession with the brand. There is obviously some history (ongoing feud) between you and a few others that post here, care to fill us in on what that's all about?

Thank You.

    I'm a little curious myself.  I've seen KC post on other sites, and it is all basically the same stuff, over and over and over and over again.  It appears he has a deep-seated hatred/vendetta/"agenda" against KM and I wonder why. 
 
    Will he ever tell us?  I don't know.....what say you, KC?

Posted By : KC Cheef - 5/18/2008 4:03 PM
What say me?
I'd say you were from the Indian Motorcycle Community Public Forum.
I'm told you have been registered as a member of that site for quite a few years.
I'd also say it seems you've asked this question over there.
Seems it was the SECOND post you've ever made on that site.
Kind of like maybe you might be one of that sites moderators or Administrators alter ego being kept in reserve for special occasions.
.

Another thing I'd say?
Hey--give me a call--913-522-8374 we can talk any time you like.

No agenda -- no vendetta - no hatred.
I just don't care for them or their idea of the next coming of INDIAN MOTORCYCLES.
To me they seem to be a sham.
ESPECIALLY after the Dog and Pony show they put on in Branson, othis past week.
LMAO.

Posted By : rdawsoniii - 5/18/2008 5:24 PM

Hey KC...no offense meant...seriously.

Yes, I've been registered at the other forum for awhile...because of my interest in Indian motorcycles...I never really posted until today but I did because I thought they might know...I found out that it appears to be a sore subject there.  If you think I'm some sort of "spy", then I guess nothing I say to the contrary would change your mind.  You're gonna believe what you're gonna believe (I'm not, by the way).

I was just being curious.  I shouldn't be sticking my nose where it doesn't belong....it is a problem I have.  Please don't take offense. 

Peace.

 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 5/19/2008 3:49 PM
Hey rdawsoniii.

No problems here.
I'm told you registered on that site as being from IOWA.
Funny thing?
I just helped the Lone Wolf Riders Association hold its annual Pow Wow in Keosaqua, Iowa May 8-11'th.
You like Indian Motorcycles--well I REALLY wish we could have met up with you while we were there.
We ride the hell out of our INDIAN MOTORCYCLES, and I could have hooked you up with some REALLY good folks for a weekend of Partying.

There are alternative Indian Motorcycle sites out there.
Check out http://www.crazyhorsemotorcycles.com/forums/index.php?

Generally we have the rep of SUPPORTING our Gilroy bikes--wide open bunch on there, and I will personally welcome you onto the site.

You ride safe--and if you ever decide to look at an INDIAN MOTORCYCLE Gilroy Era--you let me know.
The Gilroy bikes are a WELL KEPT SECRET in the motorcycle world.I can hook you up with a totally rebuilt -- super dependable--beautiful motorcycle for around WAY under $20k.


Yo got my number--and you got the CH site--give me a shout.

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/19/2008 4:14 PM
The old Indians were a POS, you had to remove the baffle in the crankcase reverse the rods to throw oil forward on the pistons, re-do the valve tube seals. Transmission gears were mush had to re-heat treat. Mounts always came loose, tire change was a total nightmare, after alot of modification you finally had a motorcycle you could ride and have crowds admire. But I can see why Harley kicked their butts with their overhead valve power. What was it, 1936 when the knuckle came out? You get tired of getting beat.

Posted By : rdawsoniii - 5/19/2008 4:40 PM

Thanks KC....

Yes, I live in Iowa...Des Moines area...I didn't know there was an Indian rally down in Keo.  I thought the only bike rallies in Iowa were in Conesville and (I think) Dexter. 

I'm a few years away yet from justifying an Indian purchase (my wife bought my bike for me for Father's Day in 2004...a Suzuki Volusia...I'm 49 but have only been riding since then), but I'll sure be looking for all the advice I can get when it's time to pull the trigger. 

Question for you on the Gilroy's....what is your opinion on the S & S vs. the PowerPlus?  I'm not mechanically inclined so I'd need to have my service work done by someone else...which engine would I have an easier time finding someone to work on?  And which engine do you think is the better overall?

For that matter, are the earlier or later Gilroy's the better overall bike re: reliability, comfort, etc (I'm talking the Chief, not the Scout or Springfield)?

I'll head over to the crazy horse site and check it out.

Thanks!


Posted By : KC Cheef - 5/19/2008 9:32 PM
The Volusia is a nice ride.

I'll be waiting on you to come visit.
I can hook you up with some Indian Riders in your area.

The PP vs S&S question?
You'd have to ride a PP Bike, and see for yourself.
Some of us call the S&S bikes Little Chiefs.
A nice ride--but totally different than the PP.

S&S riders are passionate about their Chiefs--PP riders are passionate about theirs.

Keo?
Any one interested in a hell of a nice place to hold a get together--check out Pine Ridge Retreats. Good Folks--and the prices and facilities are AMAZING!!!

Posted By : rdawsoniii - 5/20/2008 5:31 AM

Yeah, the Volusia isn't bad....whines a little once you get over 60, but feels pretty good for a mid-size bike.

I just might take you up on the visit some day....I assume you live in the Kansas City area...I have a brother and sister in law who live in one of the little suburbs (I don't remember the name though) and the wife and I need to get down there to see them sometime, as it's been a couple of years.  He rides also (Harley).

I'll be sure to drop a line or call if'n we get down KC way.

 


Posted By : satyride - 5/28/2008 1:51 AM
It's a nostalgia thing, if you were there when the originals were on the street, cops, fire chiefs,racing,...you will always have a spot in your heart for the Indian...my bro and I bought a pair .2000 even though we knew what they were underneath.


THE SATYR makes the/ and lives by the ....RULES...his own


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 6/6/2008 6:35 PM
The new Indian bikes are real nice. I think they will sell to those that can aford them. They seem to have the mix of looks and current technology down pretty well. Now comes the reliability thing. Only time will tell on that. I'm not in any need of a 30k+ motorcycle, but I wish them well.

They seem to be making some good moves to get them where they need to be. That includes tooling and positioning prior to manufacture - they are doing that. Lots of people love to take a shot - few know what they are talking about (including me).

The name, the style, modernized enough to suit. Good luck Indian.

On the timing thing? There is never a "good time" always would like something else to fall in place - so you press on - deliver small runs and if it's your own money (which it mostly is here) - decide how you'll last. I think the behemoths of American V-Twin motorcycle manufacturing have far more damaging decisions to make - and they are. Production cutbacks, layoffs, etc... Lots of people being hurt - not currently at Indian - they're hiring.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/8/2008 7:54 AM
Hey Chickenstrips
What happened?
You seem a little less of a cheerleader.
Did Branson kind of take the wind out of your sails?

Those bikes they had in Branson?
Kind of pitiful don't you think?
You reckon they'll have them ready by Sturgis?

Or was it the pic that has been posted elsewhere of that new ICONIC Dealership/Showroom?
That sure doesn't look like anythng anyone would invest 3 or 4 million dollars in does it?
Especially considering the fact there is noting to put in one yet.

The $30k plus?
Yeah--$33 to $38k-Who the hell would want to spend that kind of money on an unproven--yet to be produced--MOTOCYCLE?

The name, the style, modernized ENOUGH TO SUIT?
Well the name can only take them so far.
The style seems to have headed in the wrong direction.
And MODERN ENOUGH TO SUIT? DUDE for those kind of bucks that motorcycle should be the most technologicly advanced machine on the road!!!!!

As far as them hiring in KM?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt--but could you supply us with a few facts to back that up?
And?
Are they hiring these folks to work in the boat plant--or the motorcycle factory?
Word I'm hearing is the employees will be working in one plant or the other as the need dictates.
And word Im hearing is that 2 people will be assembling motorcycles as they are ordered in.
Each bike built will be built by 2 folks start to finish.
Kind of reminds me of that Orange Count Chopper deal don't you think?

Posted By : basshole - 6/9/2008 4:37 PM
Well at least you'll know who to blame when something fails!:p  I can see em trying to pass the buck now......He did it! No HE did it....freaked  
KC Cheef said...
Hey Chickenstrips
What happened?
You seem a little less of a cheerleader.
Did Branson kind of take the wind out of your sails?

Those bikes they had in Branson?
Kind of pitiful don't you think?
You reckon they'll have them ready by Sturgis?

Or was it the pic that has been posted elsewhere of that new ICONIC Dealership/Showroom?
That sure doesn't look like anythng anyone would invest 3 or 4 million dollars in does it?
Especially considering the fact there is noting to put in one yet.

The $30k plus?
Yeah--$33 to $38k-Who the hell would want to spend that kind of money on an unproven--yet to be produced--MOTOCYCLE?

The name, the style, modernized ENOUGH TO SUIT?
Well the name can only take them so far.
The style seems to have headed in the wrong direction.
And MODERN ENOUGH TO SUIT? DUDE for those kind of bucks that motorcycle should be the most technologicly advanced machine on the road!!!!!

As far as them hiring in KM?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt--but could you supply us with a few facts to back that up?
And?
Are they hiring these folks to work in the boat plant--or the motorcycle factory?
Word I'm hearing is the employees will be working in one plant or the other as the need dictates.
And word Im hearing is that 2 people will be assembling motorcycles as they are ordered in.
Each bike built will be built by 2 folks start to finish.
Kind of reminds me of that Orange Count Chopper deal don't you think?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Yamahog 1300 - 6/13/2008 1:17 PM
I read Motorcycle Cruiser's test ride of the new Indian
Yes, they are great looking, but for $30,000.00 to $34,000.00, you would expect better than a 2yr warrenty and, no oil leaks and bad brakes, like the test ride uncovered.
I love the looks, but for the money, I'll take something I don't have to work on.

Posted By : rdawsoniii - 6/13/2008 5:44 PM

Yamahog....

I think you were reading a review of an '03 Indian, not the new one.  Since the '09s are not even in production yet, and considering how secretive of their bikes KM has been, I find it highly unlikely that they are going to let ANYONE from a moto magazine take a test ride, particularly to be reviewed and published, at this particular point in time.


Posted By : basshole - 6/13/2008 9:48 PM
Especially since there really is nothing to test.freaked
rdawsoniii said...

Yamahog....

I think you were reading a review of an '03 Indian, not the new one.  Since the '09s are not even in production yet, and considering how secretive of their bikes KM has been, I find it highly unlikely that they are going to let ANYONE from a moto magazine take a test ride, particularly to be reviewed and published, at this particular point in time.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/14/2008 5:34 AM
Yamahog 1300 said...
I read Motorcycle Cruiser's test ride of the new Indian
Yes, they are great looking, but for $30,000.00 to $34,000.00, you would expect better than a 2yr warrenty and, no oil leaks and bad brakes, like the test ride uncovered.

I love the looks, but for the money, I'll take something I don't have to work on.



Sorry to correct you Yamahog.
But.
I went to their site and priced a motorcycle.
Top of the line is almost $38k!!!
As Kings Mountian likes to say----THAT'S ICONIC!!!!!!! freaked

Posted By : homer14 - 6/22/2008 5:00 AM
http://indianmcinfo.com/images/09s/09_indian_prototypes.html
 
posted some pics i took of the 09's prototypes on my site...
i'll post a write up sooner or later..most info i am writing about is common knowledge at this point..but i have a few interesting tidbits to share..
i may also visit the factory prior to the grand opening...literally depends on the weather...

Posted By : basshole - 6/24/2008 12:40 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't see anything there that could possibly warrant the price they are asking. Price needs to be cut in half IMHO.
 
posted some pics i took of the 09's prototypes on my site...
i'll post a write up sooner or later..most info i am writing about is common knowledge at this point..but i have a few interesting tidbits to share..
i may also visit the factory prior to the grand opening...literally depends on the weather...


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 6/25/2008 7:34 AM
basshole said...
I'm sorry, I didn't see anything there that could possibly warrant the price they are asking. Price needs to be cut in half IMHO. 

H.L. Mencken once said "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." 

I'm guessing the KM Indian folks are hoping he was right!  :p


Martin
 
Denver, CO
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 6/26/2008 4:08 PM

Anybody read the 08/2008 Cycle World? 

For Indian fans there is some good information there - cover story and great article presenting what they saw in a factory interview with the top personnel. Lots of good technical insight into what they're doing too.  Looks like they are building a smart business and quality bikes.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/29/2008 6:33 PM
Hey chickenstrips.

WAS it a COVER STORY?
Or just mentioned as an article on the cover?

And?
Be sure to also read the comments on the Cycle World website.

Seems like their are a lot folks out there losing the faith.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 9/24/2008 1:21 PM
Well it is definately time to revisit this thread. Been following the Indian story along... Seems that the new Indian is getting some pretty high marks in the press I've read in recent months. They finally decided they were ready and have opened up the place to interviews and tours. I hear the first dealership is having their Grand Opening this weekend and that they have well over 350 presold. Yeah I know that is not much - but they weren't trying for much out of the box either. At their average price that's what like at least $12.25 million for the first model year sales? Guess that is not too bad for a company that has spent nearly nothing on advertising and controlled spending their own money along the way. From what I've seen and heard they are quite a nice bike. I'm gonna check them out for a closer look. They look like beautiful bikes from what I've seen and I've heard from many that have seen them that they are definately on the right path. No one likes the price - but it seem not so far out anymore considering the market segmentation. From what I hear they have two trailers full of beautiful new bikes that are traveling to sites around the country and have put together a pretty strong dealer network that is working towards more "Grand Openings". Heard they went to Sturgis and southern California and they're going to Street Vibrations - Reno out west. Heard that they are having some big doings at the grand opening weekend in North Carolina this weekend too. Welcome back Indian - best of luck.

Posted By : basshole - 9/25/2008 1:17 PM
I went to the unveiling at Cooks Corner here in So Cal back in August. They had the full line up out there and the big semi truck. There we're about 20 people from Indian standing around pretending to look busy. The place was packed that day but truly only marginal interest in the bikes. There was no encouragement from the Indian team to get people to sit on the bikes or even have a demo. heck they didn't even bother to fire one up so people could here them. And I didn't talk to a single person who felt the cost of ownership was remotely justified. I would probably go so far as to say the reception to Idian was poor at best. I particularly like how they were tring to sell leather Indian jackets that were made in China for the low low price of $959.00smhair  Talk about a rip off.
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
Well it is definately time to revisit this thread. Been following the Indian story along... Seems that the new Indian is getting some pretty high marks in the press I've read in recent months. They finally decided they were ready and have opened up the place to interviews and tours. I hear the first dealership is having their Grand Opening this weekend and that they have well over 350 presold. Yeah I know that is not much - but they weren't trying for much out of the box either. At their average price that's what like at least $12.25 million for the first model year sales? Guess that is not too bad for a company that has spent nearly nothing on advertising and controlled spending their own money along the way. From what I've seen and heard they are quite a nice bike. I'm gonna check them out for a closer look. They look like beautiful bikes from what I've seen and I've heard from many that have seen them that they are definately on the right path. No one likes the price - but it seem not so far out anymore considering the market segmentation. From what I hear they have two trailers full of beautiful new bikes that are traveling to sites around the country and have put together a pretty strong dealer network that is working towards more "Grand Openings". Heard they went to Sturgis and southern California and they're going to Street Vibrations - Reno out west. Heard that they are having some big doings at the grand opening weekend in North Carolina this weekend too. Welcome back Indian - best of luck.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 9/29/2008 7:47 AM
Well, they couldn't have picked a better time to introduce the bike.  The economy is in great shape, people have lots of disposable income and everyone is optimistic about the future. 
 
Heck, before long, we'll all be riding Indian motorcycles! 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 9/29/2008 1:38 PM
martinjmpr said...
Well, they couldn't have picked a better time to introduce the bike.  The economy is in great shape, people have lots of disposable income and everyone is optimistic about the future. 
 
Heck, before long, we'll all be riding Indian motorcycles! 

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : satyride - 10/4/2008 12:10 PM
The way I see it...we are in a Golden Age of petrol powered Internal Combustion engined vehicles...all types, styles, uses.I don't care personally for some or have a use for some .... BUT let the marketplace decide.The fewer interferences we have the more Darwinian the process becomes. The strong survive the weak perish.It's only when some parties have so much money or outside influence helping them create an image of you "must have this" or how cool is that, or Hollywood loves, or celebes use, or the churches say, or GOD wants,....and we all know that people are really vain, stupid , inexperienced, fearful,crowd followers, hate things they do not understand or are not part of their crowd.....that they (we) find a reason to bad mouth the product, idea,people,institution, political party, candidate, etc. MOST people's shoe size is equal to their native intelligence(IQ). And if they do not own or can't afford the object in question they will always believe(in the face of measured facts)their own opinions count more than TRUTH. So open your pie hole , say what you will..it your right to be an idiot.
Don't hate me , I have 27 bikes.I think some are less than perfect, others fine but none are KING.I made my own money in this world . I inherited only my love from parents, and a strong body-mind to get an athletic scholarship. I fought to get the rest.


THE SATYR makes the/ and lives by the ....RULES...his own


Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/6/2008 8:22 AM
Satyr:  You don't have an onion tied to your belt by any chance, do you?  confused


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : satyride - 10/6/2008 2:21 PM
NO just GARLIC FROM THE VAMPS.Wait til we officially devalue the USD or /and nationalize the banking system.....pay me now or latter...my trust will out live me....it doesn't matter now.


THE SATYR makes the/ and lives by the ....RULES...his own


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/6/2008 2:26 PM

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 

Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 10/6/2008 11:54:22 PM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/6/2008 2:28 PM

Indian at 2008 Street Vibrations - Reno.  An estimated 400,000 attendees.  Bikes were received well.  Crowds of people sat on them, asked about them and enquired into purchasing them.

 


Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 10/6/2008 11:55:29 PM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/6/2008 2:33 PM

First New Indian Dealer Grand Opening Charlotte, NC this past weekend.   Dozens got to take demo rides of 20 to 30 minutes.  On Friday night, the company owners and key employees were there for a launch reception with those who had long ago placed deposits on the new bikes and the Chairman Stephen Julius spoke to the crowd of a couple thousand at the dealership grand opening - which was preceded by a factory tour.  They expected 200 to show - mostly hardcore Indian enthusiasts - over 8,000 showed to both the factory tour and similar numbers at the dealership grand opening.  They bought merchandise and put new additional deposits down on bikes. Word is they took 100 more deposits on bikes - just at the grand opening.  I've heard tell this takes them up into beyond five hundred for their first limited edition 2009 model year run. 

 

Someone want to try to say again how little interest there is?  If you had a clue - you might know something.


Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 10/7/2008 12:51:16 AM GMT


Posted By : satyride - 10/6/2008 4:15 PM
I tried but web is shut down what is the problem?I have some great shots of the Indians in Vienna ....ol' skool. When the site is up i'll post


THE SATYR makes the/ and lives by the ....RULES...his own


Posted By : satyride - 10/6/2008 4:20 PM
Sorry went to wrong site here are the Pics.


THE SATYR makes the/ and lives by the ....RULES...his own


Posted By : satyride - 10/6/2008 10:50 PM
So do you like my friends and I in REAL Indians better than my 2000 Indian my bro and I have in the states? Can you kick one over " girley man?


THE SATYR makes the/ and lives by the ....RULES...his own


Posted By : basshole - 10/7/2008 10:44 AM
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/7/2008 11:26 AM

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 



Posted By : basshole - 10/7/2008 12:42 PM

So I'm gonna guess these prices on their website for jackets is a lie also? Dude you have ZERO credibility in here. I suggest you run along and go play on the freeway.

 http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/store/categorypage/tabid/178/c-2-jackets.aspx 

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 



Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Desmolicious - 10/7/2008 12:47 PM
How did this get to 14 pages? I read page one, and page 14. Can someone fill me in on the rest?...


Børk! Børk! Børk!


Posted By : basshole - 10/7/2008 12:54 PM
Desmolicious said...
How did this get to 14 pages? I read page one, and page 14. Can someone fill me in on the rest?...

lol  most 13 pages of myopic love for a still to be produced product. idea  Amazing how something can be the "best ever" and have never even hit the pavement.lol lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : JoneZ - 10/7/2008 2:18 PM
Keep em on the RES. A big yawn goes out to ya IMC. It seems to me that being an Indian owner comes with being an emotional wreck also. (conclusion I got from some of the owners on the initial page)


2007 Harley Davidson FXD Super Glide.

Challenge your ignorance


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/7/2008 3:36 PM

jumpin LOL - talk about no credibility - "Dude".  Your keyboard cowboy-isms may play well in here with your friends... but that and a cup of coffee will get you - well, a cup of coffee. Keep your suggestions for yourself. Anytime you care to have a real discussion without the yuck yuck snicker snicker - you know where to find me. 

basshole said...

So I'm gonna guess these prices on their website for jackets is a lie also? Dude you have ZERO credibility in here. I suggest you run along and go play on the freeway.

 http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/store/categorypage/tabid/178/c-2-jackets.aspx 

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 




Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/7/2008 3:39 PM
Pretty funny how - even if anything you said were true - you think something could suck on that basis as well
lol lol lol lol
basshole said...  Amazing how something can be the "best ever" and have never even hit the pavement.lol lol

Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 10/7/2008 10:48:03 PM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 10/8/2008 10:29 AM
Well, when you can learn to face reality, feel free to join in the discussion. Just face facts, you lied! End of story. NEXT??????????? 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

jumpin LOL - talk about no credibility - "Dude".  Your keyboard cowboy-isms may play well in here with your friends... but that and a cup of coffee will get you - well, a cup of coffee. Keep your suggestions for yourself. Anytime you care to have a real discussion without the yuck yuck snicker snicker - you know where to find me. 

basshole said...

So I'm gonna guess these prices on their website for jackets is a lie also? Dude you have ZERO credibility in here. I suggest you run along and go play on the freeway.

 http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/store/categorypage/tabid/178/c-2-jackets.aspx 

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 




Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/8/2008 2:02 PM

LOL - I come with pictures and such documenting reality and you ...bloviate. I won't be facing your warped self important reality - enjoy it by yourself - it appears you do.  I'll be watching the Indian story for developments and discussing them.

For the interested in more than a basshole - here is a brief Blog on the event by Cyril Huze: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2008/10/05/thousands-turn-out-for-indian-motorcycle-flagship-dealer-grand-opening/#more-2753

basshole said...
Well, when you can learn to face reality, feel free to join in the discussion. Just face facts, you lied! End of story. NEXT??????????? 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

jumpin LOL - talk about no credibility - "Dude".  Your keyboard cowboy-isms may play well in here with your friends... but that and a cup of coffee will get you - well, a cup of coffee. Keep your suggestions for yourself. Anytime you care to have a real discussion without the yuck yuck snicker snicker - you know where to find me. 

basshole said...

So I'm gonna guess these prices on their website for jackets is a lie also? Dude you have ZERO credibility in here. I suggest you run along and go play on the freeway.

 http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/store/categorypage/tabid/178/c-2-jackets.aspx 

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 




Posted By : basshole - 10/8/2008 3:30 PM
No need for me to read you "spin" on stuff. Bottom line is the general public knows better. Too bad for you!
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

LOL - I come with pictures and such documenting reality and you ...bloviate. I won't be facing your warped self important reality - enjoy it by yourself - it appears you do.  I'll be watching the Indian story for developments and discussing them.

For the interested in more than a basshole - here is a brief Blog on the event by Cyril Huze: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2008/10/05/thousands-turn-out-for-indian-motorcycle-flagship-dealer-grand-opening/#more-2753

basshole said...
Well, when you can learn to face reality, feel free to join in the discussion. Just face facts, you lied! End of story. NEXT??????????? 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

jumpin LOL - talk about no credibility - "Dude".  Your keyboard cowboy-isms may play well in here with your friends... but that and a cup of coffee will get you - well, a cup of coffee. Keep your suggestions for yourself. Anytime you care to have a real discussion without the yuck yuck snicker snicker - you know where to find me. 

basshole said...

So I'm gonna guess these prices on their website for jackets is a lie also? Dude you have ZERO credibility in here. I suggest you run along and go play on the freeway.

 http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/store/categorypage/tabid/178/c-2-jackets.aspx 

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 





Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/8/2008 4:08 PM
I can see that - you think you know everything.  We can agree that the public knows better - than to listen to the "spin" from you.  Pretty good turnout of "the public" - 1,000's at the Indian Factory Open House and the first dealership grand opening for this factory in this gloom and doom economy. They went and saw for themselves and bought lots of stuff - including bikes - so sorry - you still know nothing - keep trying though you might catch up.
basshole said...
No need for me to read you "spin" on stuff. Bottom line is the general public knows better. Too bad for you!
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

LOL - I come with pictures and such documenting reality and you ...bloviate. I won't be facing your warped self important reality - enjoy it by yourself - it appears you do.  I'll be watching the Indian story for developments and discussing them.

For the interested in more than a basshole - here is a brief Blog on the event by Cyril Huze: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2008/10/05/thousands-turn-out-for-indian-motorcycle-flagship-dealer-grand-opening/#more-2753

basshole said...
Well, when you can learn to face reality, feel free to join in the discussion. Just face facts, you lied! End of story. NEXT??????????? 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

jumpin LOL - talk about no credibility - "Dude".  Your keyboard cowboy-isms may play well in here with your friends... but that and a cup of coffee will get you - well, a cup of coffee. Keep your suggestions for yourself. Anytime you care to have a real discussion without the yuck yuck snicker snicker - you know where to find me. 

basshole said...

So I'm gonna guess these prices on their website for jackets is a lie also? Dude you have ZERO credibility in here. I suggest you run along and go play on the freeway.

 http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/store/categorypage/tabid/178/c-2-jackets.aspx 

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 





Posted By : rdawsoniii - 10/8/2008 6:03 PM

I'm glad to see the first dealership open for business.  Wow....what a turnout. 

Nobody can predict the future, but I've had a feeling this incarnation of Indian was going to make it all along.  Time will tell.  Too bad they are priced a "tad" bit higher than I expected.  I still plan to own an Indian in the not-too-distant future...either one of the new ones or a Malfa'd Gilroy.  It would be nice if Des Moines can get a dealership.


Posted By : basshole - 10/8/2008 9:26 PM
Got any hard data to back those claims up? Or is it just your opinion like everything else you've said?
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
I can see that - you think you know everything.  We can agree that the public knows better - than to listen to the "spin" from you.  Pretty good turnout of "the public" - 1,000's at the Indian Factory Open House and the first dealership grand opening for this factory in this gloom and doom economy. They went and saw for themselves and bought lots of stuff - including bikes - so sorry - you still know nothing - keep trying though you might catch up.
basshole said...
No need for me to read you "spin" on stuff. Bottom line is the general public knows better. Too bad for you!
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

LOL - I come with pictures and such documenting reality and you ...bloviate. I won't be facing your warped self important reality - enjoy it by yourself - it appears you do.  I'll be watching the Indian story for developments and discussing them.

For the interested in more than a basshole - here is a brief Blog on the event by Cyril Huze: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2008/10/05/thousands-turn-out-for-indian-motorcycle-flagship-dealer-grand-opening/#more-2753

basshole said...
Well, when you can learn to face reality, feel free to join in the discussion. Just face facts, you lied! End of story. NEXT??????????? 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

jumpin LOL - talk about no credibility - "Dude".  Your keyboard cowboy-isms may play well in here with your friends... but that and a cup of coffee will get you - well, a cup of coffee. Keep your suggestions for yourself. Anytime you care to have a real discussion without the yuck yuck snicker snicker - you know where to find me. 

basshole said...

So I'm gonna guess these prices on their website for jackets is a lie also? Dude you have ZERO credibility in here. I suggest you run along and go play on the freeway.

 http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/store/categorypage/tabid/178/c-2-jackets.aspx 

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 






Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/9/2008 10:03 AM

Pretty funny - all I do is post hard data and all you do is be basshole. I've already posted pics and links to more pics of the "Hard Data" showing turnout.  But here I'll give the interested a few clues - I know that won't be you.  Here is a bunch of amatuer videos - mostly focusing on the bikes and one on the factory tour last wekend in King's Mountain, North Carolina.  And uhhhh yeah I included the Cook's Corner and Corona turnout that you lied about in Southern California.  Some repitition - but each was a different post on utube and showed some different things. I'd ask you for hard data - but I know you don't have any - LOL

Indian Trailer Stop – Fayetteville, AR - Hawg City

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=514Dq1i7WTc&feature=related

  

Indian Trailer Stop – Corona, CA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1vI8wia0xM&feature=related

 

Indian Trailer Stop – Rick and Ronnies Pt1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlUZdVH1j80&feature=related

 

Indian Trailer Stop –Cook’s Corner – Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLgaq1a5xzw&feature=related

 

Indian Trailer Stop –Cook’s Corner – Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-o3Q54oPE0&feature=related

 

Indian Trailer Stop –Cook’s Corner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SpS4_B1g2I&feature=related

 

 

KM Factory Just Prior to Open Tour

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO6Kwc4Yk8g

 

basshole said...
Got any hard data to back those claims up? Or is it just your opinion like everything else you've said?
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
I can see that - you think you know everything.  We can agree that the public knows better - than to listen to the "spin" from you.  Pretty good turnout of "the public" - 1,000's at the Indian Factory Open House and the first dealership grand opening for this factory in this gloom and doom economy. They went and saw for themselves and bought lots of stuff - including bikes - so sorry - you still know nothing - keep trying though you might catch up.
basshole said...
No need for me to read you "spin" on stuff. Bottom line is the general public knows better. Too bad for you!
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

LOL - I come with pictures and such documenting reality and you ...bloviate. I won't be facing your warped self important reality - enjoy it by yourself - it appears you do.  I'll be watching the Indian story for developments and discussing them.

For the interested in more than a basshole - here is a brief Blog on the event by Cyril Huze: http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2008/10/05/thousands-turn-out-for-indian-motorcycle-flagship-dealer-grand-opening/#more-2753

basshole said...
Well, when you can learn to face reality, feel free to join in the discussion. Just face facts, you lied! End of story. NEXT??????????? 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

jumpin LOL - talk about no credibility - "Dude".  Your keyboard cowboy-isms may play well in here with your friends... but that and a cup of coffee will get you - well, a cup of coffee. Keep your suggestions for yourself. Anytime you care to have a real discussion without the yuck yuck snicker snicker - you know where to find me. 

basshole said...

So I'm gonna guess these prices on their website for jackets is a lie also? Dude you have ZERO credibility in here. I suggest you run along and go play on the freeway.

 http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/store/categorypage/tabid/178/c-2-jackets.aspx 

NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Actually - not a liar - in regard to whether you saw any specific price tag or not.  And, since you are simply expressing an opinion regarding interest - which is clearly wrong judging from the participation at both Cook's Corner and Corona dealership.  If/When Corona dealership gets their act together there will be lots of interest in Southern Cal - there is already - just will be more organized interest. If they don't get their act together Indian will not wait around long - they have a plan and roll forward on it everyday from what I've seen and read. The participation at other places across the country has been very strong as the pictues tell the story. Go to www.indianmotorcycle.com and in the center bottom of their front page under Grand Opening is a photos link that shows a lot of the event.  After you look at those, tell me there is no interest. Everyone likes to jump the gun and offer their "opinion" - usually without a clue.

Price tag on a Jacket means nothing. What you failed to mention is that at the early preview in SoCal - all merchandise was marked "Sample" and could not be bought -at any price.  I hear they were "discounting" all weekend at the dealership grand opening in NC. Heard lots of 50% offs and such.  Guess they will find their pricepoints as they go. Looks to me like they will offer a range of pricepoints from what seems "regular" on regular issue clothing to "high end" in the better clothing. I got some pretty nice stuff from there - all new merchandise - 2 hats, 2 dealership t-shirts, a sweatshirt, a colarred polo type shirt and a long sleeved buttondown work shirt - all for about $160 - not bad. Probably will stay firm on the bikes - but I guess that is for the dealers and Indian to work out with interested buyers.

So many "opinions" but no one with the balls to be in the business the way they are.  They seem to be doing it right - say what you want - don't matter anyway - you are obviously not a fan and not in the market - that's cool - enjoy your ride and writing.

 

basshole said...
Dude!! I LOOKED AT THE PRICE TAG ON THE JACKET!!! $969.00  ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??? No one in So Cal is gonna give Indian the time of day. Too expensive for an unproven over priced product. Sorry, it's just the facts. Wrong economy to sell into. 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...

Cook's Corner on Indian Day in August the first west coast stop of many.  Corona Dealership handled arrangements.  There were 2 events - 1 at corona and one at Cook's corner.  Both were heavily attended and bikes were sat on - frequently.  No demo riding promised - or allowed.  Jackets were all samples - no pricing and nothing for sale yet.

 






Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 10/9/2008 5:11:15 PM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/9/2008 10:24 AM

Well, only time will tell if they make it or not. They still have to get out on the road and prove the reliability thing. The economy is pretty tough right now - but I think the way they started they may be able to ride it out.  One thing for sure as I have followed them is they seem to have a good plan and are sticking to it despite a lot of opinions.  I have seen a lot of MC industry writers turn around pretty quickly once they go a personal look as to what they were doing.  So far Indian has been mostly action and little talk - I guess they leave that for those watching and debating their return.

I don't have a new purchase in my immediate future - maybe a few years down the road.  I have heard they announced the "Scout" as their second bike and it may be a sportier version of the Chief this time around.  There are lots of rumours about their bikes.  I have heard later on they may do anything from a four to an 8 - should be fun to watch.  And no I don't have any hard facts for that last bit - as I said it is rumour.  At the factory I also heard that the Chairman said he wants to return to racing - should be fun if that happens.

I'm pulling for them - they seem to be making good moves up til now.

rdawsoniii said...

I'm glad to see the first dealership open for business.  Wow....what a turnout. 

Nobody can predict the future, but I've had a feeling this incarnation of Indian was going to make it all along.  Time will tell.  Too bad they are priced a "tad" bit higher than I expected.  I still plan to own an Indian in the not-too-distant future...either one of the new ones or a Malfa'd Gilroy.  It would be nice if Des Moines can get a dealership.



Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/9/2008 1:57 PM
The thorny question here is what constitutes "success?" Is Indian aiming to achieve the status of HD? If so, they're smoking something. There's only room for one HD in the American market and HD has that pretty much sewn up. I don't know how many bikes Victory sells but I'll bet it's a drop in the bucket compared to HD. I doubt there's even enough room in the American MC market for another Victory. Consider also that HD sells a wide variety of bikes that range in price from the $6500 range all the way up to $25k. Victory's models range from about $13k to $19k or so. Indian only sells bikes in the $30k range - how big is the market for mass-produced, $30k bikes? I know if I was going to drop 30 large on a bike (and I never will) I'd want to have my name engraved on the tank and the seat custom fitted to my ass by a Swiss tailor. Is Indian offering that service?

Now, if all they want to do is make a limited run of overpriced, niche-marketed butt jewelry like CMC or Iron Horse or WCC or the other boutique chopper makers, that's probably doable, but is it really the "rebirth" of Indian, which at one time was the bigges MC maker in the US? I hardly think so. I mean, if you scraped up enough cash, you could make a couple of inline twins and paint the word "Norton" or "BSA" on the tank but it wouldn't mean that those historic marques were "reborn" it would just mean that someone had appropriated the name.

From the propaganda posts put out by the Indian boosters here I get the impression that Indian thinks they can resume their place next to HD in the American motorcycle market. Well, unless they invest their $50 million into inventing a time machine to take them back to 1946 I just don't see it happening.


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : Purdue87 - 10/9/2008 4:27 PM
I totally agree with martinjumper.....30K? Are they kidding? Does it give you a big "O" every time you sit on it? For that price it should....


Peace


Posted By : rdawsoniii - 10/9/2008 5:14 PM

martin....

From what I understand, they have no intention of trying to go toe-to-toe with HD.  They just want to carve out their own little niche market.  How big a niche remains to be seen.

They came out with their "flagship" model Chief to begin with.  As nomorechickenstrips said, they plan to expand into other models and possible racing later on.  The owners are looking long term and taking it slow.  Sometimes slow can be bad, but Stellican's advantage is: they are not a public stock company. 

#1 priority now is to get a quality, reliable bike on the road.  If the new Indian has mechanical problems, it will be dead in the water and will likely never return.  Yes, they are very expensive....but if it proves to be mechanically sound and reliable and develops a reputation as a "premium" motorcycle, then when they expand to a lower priced Scout bikers will buy them like hotcakes.

Rather than look at the new Indian with disdain, bikers should be rooting for it to succeed....a successful return of Indian would be good for the motorcycle industry, IMO.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/9/2008 6:32 PM
Well hello chickenstrips.
Good to see you back and all aflutter.
Did you have a nice trip to the MOUNTAIN?
Just a few things.
I'm hearing total deposits made to date are more in the 100 to 110 range.
Don't know how many more deposits were taken during the tour--but 100 more would surprise the hell out of me.
Especially considering rumor has it that the deposits taken at the Dealership opening are non-refundable.

How many more bikes did you see being assembled?
I know about the 15 or so that have been hauled all over the country--but it sure seems to me like if Indian is going to deliver by Christmas they better get to cracking.
Not much time left--and I'd sure hate to be the fella that got a $32k to $40k bike and found out that it had been a demo.

I did hear the factory tour was kind of a let down.
Everything laid out all nice and neat but no one working on the bikes.
Almost like a display more than a manufacturing facility.
Kind of a lack of parts and people from what I heard.
There is a video floating around out ther that I'm betting you are aware of--it's posted on another forum dedicated to the Gilroy Machines.
Why don't you post a link to it for the nice folks over here and let them decide for themselves how impressive the new start up in Kings Mountain is.

Hey basshole.
You'll have to understand a little more about the ICONIC Clothing line.
The high end clothing is for the Chiefs Club folks.
You know the ones?
Upper crust--lots of money--no sense expcept for an imagined fashion sense.

There is also a line of clothing for the TRIBE.
I guess that would be me and most of the folks I ride around with.
A little less expensive than the upper end line and not quite as ICONIC.
Something to keep the lowly riff raff rider happy.

Basshle--you are right about the jackets.
They do seem to lack a little something.
Keep in mind though--those jackets were announced as REAL BIKER GEAR--might be some of us just don't understand what a real biker is?
I don't much care for them.
BUT?
It's those damn Telly Savalas '70s zip up the side boots that I just don't understand.
Of course -I've never even considered spending $300 to $500 for a pair of damn boots that I'm going to go out and scuff up riding a damn motorcycle.


So they've announced the Scout as their second bike?
DAMN--pretty ballsy to announce a second bike when they haven't even sold a single one of the Chiefs don't you think?
And?
I'm hearing it's not only a Scout they announced.
They plan to call it the 101 Scout.
Bunch of clueless folks--they draw on a legend that isn't even theirs.

The only legend they should draw on is the Gilroy Era--hell they used the frames and fenders as well as the names Gilroy gave our rides--but they sure dn't make much mention of Gilroy on their website--except to mention us as a failed attempt.


Well--I'm out of here/
One last question for you chickenstrips.
I did hear a kind of funny rumor about the fender tips they are using on the Cheef.
ARE THEY REALY VELCRO'D ON????
LMAO--Velcro on fender tips and velcro on leather.
Can you leas tell the folks on the MOUNTAIN that Velcro on a $30k to $40k motorcycle is just too TACKY!!!!

Oh--one more thing strips.
Can you also check your sources and find out when the Moet and Chandon Champagne Chiefs are going to be built?
I simply must have a Chief with a Champagne Chiller in the left saddle bag.

Posted By : basshole - 10/9/2008 9:33 PM
I'm just DYING to see how Chicken spins this one!!! lol
KC Cheef said...
Well hello chickenstrips.
Good to see you back and all aflutter.
Did you have a nice trip to the MOUNTAIN?
Just a few things.
I'm hearing total deposits made to date are more in the 100 to 110 range.
Don't know how many more deposits were taken during the tour--but 100 more would surprise the hell out of me.
Especially considering rumor has it that the deposits taken at the Dealership opening are non-refundable.

How many more bikes did you see being assembled?
I know about the 15 or so that have been hauled all over the country--but it sure seems to me like if Indian is going to deliver by Christmas they better get to cracking.
Not much time left--and I'd sure hate to be the fella that got a $32k to $40k bike and found out that it had been a demo.

I did hear the factory tour was kind of a let down.
Everything laid out all nice and neat but no one working on the bikes.
Almost like a display more than a manufacturing facility.
Kind of a lack of parts and people from what I heard.
There is a video floating around out ther that I'm betting you are aware of--it's posted on another forum dedicated to the Gilroy Machines.
Why don't you post a link to it for the nice folks over here and let them decide for themselves how impressive the new start up in Kings Mountain is.

Hey basshole.
You'll have to understand a little more about the ICONIC Clothing line.
The high end clothing is for the Chiefs Club folks.
You know the ones?
Upper crust--lots of money--no sense expcept for an imagined fashion sense.

There is also a line of clothing for the TRIBE.
I guess that would be me and most of the folks I ride around with.
A little less expensive than the upper end line and not quite as ICONIC.
Something to keep the lowly riff raff rider happy.

Basshle--you are right about the jackets.
They do seem to lack a little something.
Keep in mind though--those jackets were announced as REAL BIKER GEAR--might be some of us just don't understand what a real biker is?
I don't much care for them.
BUT?
It's those damn Telly Savalas '70s zip up the side boots that I just don't understand.
Of course -I've never even considered spending $300 to $500 for a pair of damn boots that I'm going to go out and scuff up riding a damn motorcycle.


So they've announced the Scout as their second bike?
DAMN--pretty ballsy to announce a second bike when they haven't even sold a single one of the Chiefs don't you think?
And?
I'm hearing it's not only a Scout they announced.
They plan to call it the 101 Scout.
Bunch of clueless folks--they draw on a legend that isn't even theirs.

The only legend they should draw on is the Gilroy Era--hell they used the frames and fenders as well as the names Gilroy gave our rides--but they sure dn't make much mention of Gilroy on their website--except to mention us as a failed attempt.


Well--I'm out of here/
One last question for you chickenstrips.
I did hear a kind of funny rumor about the fender tips they are using on the Cheef.
ARE THEY REALY VELCRO'D ON????
LMAO--Velcro on fender tips and velcro on leather.
Can you leas tell the folks on the MOUNTAIN that Velcro on a $30k to $40k motorcycle is just too TACKY!!!!

Oh--one more thing strips.
Can you also check your sources and find out when the Moet and Chandon Champagne Chiefs are going to be built?
I simply must have a Chief with a Champagne Chiller in the left saddle bag.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/10/2008 9:19 AM
rdawsoniii said...

Rather than look at the new Indian with disdain, bikers should be rooting for it to succeed....a successful return of Indian would be good for the motorcycle industry, IMO.


Okay.  Why?

Is there even one aspect of the new Indian that is actually innovative?  Original? 

How many times can you go back to that old 50's nostalgia well before it runs dry? 

Air-cooled, OHV V-twin pushrod motor, separate transmission and big fat tires.  Yeah, God knows there aren't enough of THOSE on the road!  rolleyes

I know I've said it before but I'll say it again:  If they really wanted to do something worthy of the Indian name, they'd take a page from Triumph's book.  When Triumph was re-established in 1990 they threw out all the old plans and started from Scratch.  Indian should have done the same thing. 

Instead of just aping Harley, trying to make a bike that was just like a Harley only "More" (More engine, more fender, more attitude, and with all that - more price) they should have looked at what Harley wasn't doing. 

But the good news is, we don't have to "root" for Indian because there is already an American motorcycle company that is doing new and exciting things, introducing new models and making a new place for themselves in the American market. 

They're called Buell.  If any company reflects the spirit of originality, innovativeness and "can-do" attitude that ought to be the mark of a successful American maker, it's Buell.  And they'll still be around when Indian is on it's 5th or 6th or 27th attempt at "rebirth." 

 

 

 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 

Post Edited (martinjmpr) : 10/10/2008 4:21:59 PM GMT


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/10/2008 3:52 PM
LOL - you boys do crack me up.  Why would I have to spin anything that came out of a basshole and a wannabe competitors employee?  You have expressed your opinions and I've brought facts in film and other credible source links. Thanks for the laugh. lol   Keep it up though - you're almost famous - LOL
basshole said...
I'm just DYING to see how Chicken spins this one!!! lol
KC Cheef said...



Posted By : basshole - 10/10/2008 4:45 PM
lol Silly boy! posting a pic is not a hard fact! shakehead Please provide some data from Indian Mo Co that backs up your statements. You just can't stand the fact that not many people wanna blow their wad on an over priced also ran product with little to no back end support. And why is it again that you said you weren't gonna buy one???:p
:p 
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
LOL - you boys do crack me up.  Why would I have to spin anything that came out of a basshole and a wannabe competitors employee?  You have expressed your opinions and I've brought facts in film and other credible source links. Thanks for the laugh. lol   Keep it up though - you're almost famous - LOL
basshole said...
I'm just DYING to see how Chicken spins this one!!! lol
KC Cheef said...



Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/10/2008 5:33 PM

martinjmpr - you have your view of the world - others have theirs.  I don't think any one bike class is the answer.  I like some bikes - don't like others - but I have an appreciation for all types of bikes and the riders that appreciate them. And I think you may too or were you just giving lip service when you said this?

"No one will deny the appeal of a throaty V-twin rumble at the stoplight, or slowly cruising up and down the boulevard on Friday night. A long, low, lean bike, slowly putting its way past the Dairy Queen is sure to elicit smiles from the girls and envy from the guys."

I can appreciate your friend Stacey's Bandit - a beautiful bike BTW - looks like it is the "Naked" version with an aftermarket or custom faring and trunk - very clean looking.

That said - let me try to discuss your points below...

martinjmpr said...
rdawsoniii said...

Rather than look at the new Indian with disdain, bikers should be rooting for it to succeed....a successful return of Indian would be good for the motorcycle industry, IMO.


Okay.  Why? Because competition is good in all industries.  And maybe - some like Indian in the high end heavyweight american cruiser class.  If it fills that niche better than a Harley for some - great.  If not Indian will be gone soon enough - not to worry. But if it does - maybe Harley can learn a thing or two.

Is there even one aspect of the new Indian that is actually innovative?  Original?  There is not really anything new in the heavyweight american v-twin cruiser class from anyone.  Oh there are some tweaks and new bikes introduced - but in that class that elicits the rumble at the stoplight you refer to - very little. I wouldn't call that class the V-rod class - that is something different to me.  Maybe that is what you are looking for?  I do not think that pure innovation is where the entire motorcycle industry is at either.  For some it IS about style and nostalgia.  I know guys that would puke over a UJM - I wouldn't, they are a valuable part of motorcycling.

How many times can you go back to that old 50's nostalgia well before it runs dry?  I don't know - do you?  Cars are all over it.  I happen to like most of them - the cars and the bikes.  They're fun and there are a whole lot of other bikes for different purposes.

Air-cooled, OHV V-twin pushrod motor, separate transmission and big fat tires.  Yeah, God knows there aren't enough of THOSE on the road!  rolleyes   Well, if there are enough of them then it won't matter - will it?  Both Harley AND Indian are done.  Probably the also's like Victory etc... too.  I tend to think the demise of the American V-twin is a bit overestimated.  As far as I can see there will be different strokes for different folks and some will accept all motorcycling and some will look down on others.  I tend to follow the "It don't matter what you ride, just that you ride" and "Ride what ya brung" philosophies more than "mine is better'n you'rn - neener neener."

I know I've said it before but I'll say it again:  If they really wanted to do something worthy of the Indian name, they'd take a page from Triumph's book.  When Triumph was re-established in 1990 they threw out all the old plans and started from Scratch.  Indian should have done the same thing.  I agree with you on the technology thing to a degree.  I think Indian needs to eventually get back to trying to lead in some technology area - show us something new. Are rumours of a V-8 true?  What the hell would THAT look like?  Are they serious? Is it new?  Different? There have been lots of attempts in motorcycling at different things.  Six cylinder boxers are out and about - as are Boss Hoss (fewer) and what the heck was that concept thing called? The Tomahawk? With a dodge Viper engine in it? Not practical but fun for some nonetheless.  Indian did do that technology leading thing in the day that they were where Harley is now.  I think they will again.  I have no problem with them coming out and continuing the beautiful modern heavyweight cruiser line - then offshooting into new things.

Instead of just aping Harley, trying to make a bike that was just like a Harley only "More" (More engine, more fender, more attitude, and with all that - more price) they should have looked at what Harley wasn't doing.  I dunno - would you have said that about Harley in the day that Indian was king?  If Harley did that, they may not be here. Or they may - just with a totally different bike.  No one knows.  It's a big cruiser world - if Indian can grab a piece - good for them.

But the good news is, we don't have to "root" for Indian because there is already an American motorcycle company that is doing new and exciting things, introducing new models and making a new place for themselves in the American market.  Well that is good for you - you can root for whomever you want.  I root for Harley to continue - and also root for Indian to have a successful start and see where they can take it too.

They're called Buell.  If any company reflects the spirit of originality, innovativeness and "can-do" attitude that ought to be the mark of a successful American maker, it's Buell.  And they'll still be around when Indian is on it's 5th or 6th or 27th attempt at "rebirth."  Actually Buell does have some very cool stuff and now with MV Augusta in the stable the possibilities of Harley's empire further expanding boggle the mind.  It will be all fun to watch.  As will the the Indian rebirth IMO.


Post Edited (NoMoreChickenStrips) : 10/13/2008 2:50:45 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/10/2008 8:20 PM
Did anyone notice in the video?
Factory tour--with what they claim to be thousands of people.
All parading right through the Engine Assembly Area.
Nothing like a sterile environment to put an engine together in don't you think?
Course--the people parading through the assembly area probably don't matter much.
It appears the engines are assembled in the middle of a warehouse.
I'm hearing there was even evidence of forklift traffic right through the middle of it.
Word I got was that the assembly area looked VERY staged--almost like someone was trying to convince folks there was some serious work going on.
Not much evidence of motorcycles actually being built.

Hey strips.
Any more info for us regarding those frames?
Pretty much Gilroy frames slapped together from the old Gilroy factory sale is the word I'm hearing.
Word I'm hearing is that there was a pretty obvious give away concerning those frames--and I'll let you guess what it was.
LMMFAO!!

I'm thinking there might be a few more surprises coming down the tracks in the next few months.
We'll see.

Any way--good luck to the folks who have made their deposits.
That's a leap of faith I'm just not going to be taking.

Hey basshole.
Good job quoting old strips posts.
You have proof of what he's telling folks now.
BELIEVE ME--I've dealt with him and his buds on other forums--you always want to have evidence of what your replies to him are.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/10/2008 8:26 PM
Oh wow--here we go again with the wannabe competitors employee thing again.
Hey strips--would you care to make a wager on who I work for?
Same people I've worked for for the past 30 years.

Yes I ride th ther bikes--and have a blast doing it.
Am I employed by Crazy Horse?
NO!!

You and your BROTHERS just enjoy a good spin on facts when you find yourselves being cornered and questioned.

Posted By : rdawsoniii - 10/11/2008 7:32 AM
martinjmpr asked:

"Okay. Why?"

Why not? As chickenstrips said...if it fills a niche, great.

I happen to like Indian motorcycles. I like the way the Chief looks...the long skirts, the fender light, etc. I prefer the "nostalgic" look. Other people do, too. Many don't and that's fine. I have a 2004 Suzuki Volusia that I've altered to look like the Gilroy Indian Spirit. I get a LOT of compliments on it. A lot of folks think it is an Indian (though it does not sport the Indian name anywhere on the bike...and I make sure to tell them it is NOT an Indian).

The more Indians on the road, the better IMO. They are priced WAY out of my range and that is too bad. Will there be enough people to support a premium bike? Will KM expand into other, less pricey models? Will they have a reliable dealer network? Will they have a reliable bike? Will they need to "innovate" to succeed? Will they still be around 10 or even 5 years from now? All good questions.

If KM goes belly up or if it becomes a bike for the upper-class....that will be unfortunate but it won't affect me personally in any way, shape or form. I have other options if I want an Indian.

Posted By : Sloppy - 10/16/2008 1:00 PM
I live near the new Indian dealership in Charlotte. The other day I visited it and saw the new Indians. They are very pretty. Much better looking in person than the pictures on the web site. There is a lot of bashing on Indian. I personally think that these bikes are way overpriced and a Harley clone. There is very little innovation, 45 degree air cooled V-twin, push rod, single pin crankshaft, with 2 valves per cylinder. (the brakes are nice though) It seems like they contacted Willie G to ask him what they needed to do to build a bike. I was very disappointed in what Indian was doing but the reason that I am is because I am not the buyer. That bike doesn't appeal to me especially for the price. (for that matter H-D doesn't either.) The Japanese bikes have tons more innovation, more power, better handling, more reliability and cost less than H-Ds. Indians reliability is to be determined. The sales rep at the dealership was arrogant, (maybe he didn't see me as a potential buyer because my kids were with me and I wasn't dressed in biker garb, he was right). The rep acted like to was a big deal for me to sit on the bike even though there wasn't anyone else in the store except me and my kids. But you really have to think about what Indian is trying to accomplish to appreciate the situation. They need to build a bike with nostalgia because that is what the Indian name is associated with. Why would they go and build a crotch rocket, and put the Indian name on it? They are trying to do what every company does and that is to make money. They have a production of 750 bikes with a proprietary engine. They have to go after a market that will buy that bike. Who is their buyer? It is someone that has a fairly high income, who already owns one or more bikes, (more than likely a Harley) and who wants something a little different than a Harley but doesn't want to go out of the proverbial "box". Put this into perspective, Harley makes 300,000 units worldwide, Indian is making 750. That is .25% of what Harley does. Harley could care less about Indian. They are worried about the big four. It is like me saying I am going after the Indian market but manufacturing 2 bikes a year. There isn’t a large market out there for a very high priced Harley wannabe, but there are enough buyers. As for Buell being the new and exciting American company. That’s not true. Buell is a wholly owned subsidiary of Harley Davidson. HD has spent a tremendous amount on R&D, production and quality control on Buell. Talk to most HD dealers that carry Buell, they regret that they ever carried it and have very few sales. Sales of air cooled v-twins from Harley carry the Buell line. Harley is very careful not to label Buell bikes as Harley so as not to disturb their image. Look at the difference between a Harley dealership and other dealerships. Most have a ton of different bikes, a service area and an apparel area that is tiny. A Harley dealership is like an emporium. Half of it is a clothing outlet with a ton of stuff made in China. A woman could spend all day in there shopping for clothes. People eat that up though. Harley makes a ton of money off of overpriced clothing. Stellican is doing the same by heavily leveraging the Indian name and charging $50 plus for Chinese made t-shirts. I saw an empty oil can for only $20. What a joke. Stellican’s business plan is sound, the timing sucks but what they are doing is the only way to succeed. It’s just not for me. If I ever got an Indian, it would be one made from 1953 or prior. Also it wouldn’t surprise me if Harley was a silent partner.

Posted By : JoneZ - 10/16/2008 1:06 PM
Sloppy said...
I live near the new Indian dealership in Charlotte. The other day I visited it and saw the new Indians. They are very pretty. Much better looking in person than the pictures on the web site. There is a lot of bashing on Indian. I personally think that these bikes are way overpriced and a Harley clone. There is very little innovation, 45 degree air cooled V-twin, push rod, single pin crankshaft, with 2 valves per cylinder. (the brakes are nice though) It seems like they contacted Willie G to ask him what they needed to do to build a bike. I was very disappointed in what Indian was doing but the reason that I am is because I am not the buyer. That bike doesn't appeal to me especially for the price. (for that matter H-D doesn't either.) The Japanese bikes have tons more innovation, more power, better handling, more reliability and cost less than H-Ds. Indians reliability is to be determined. The sales rep at the dealership was arrogant, (maybe he didn't see me as a potential buyer because my kids were with me and I wasn't dressed in biker garb, he was right). The rep acted like to was a big deal for me to sit on the bike even though there wasn't anyone else in the store except me and my kids. But you really have to think about what Indian is trying to accomplish to appreciate the situation. They need to build a bike with nostalgia because that is what the Indian name is associated with. Why would they go and build a crotch rocket, and put the Indian name on it? They are trying to do what every company does and that is to make money. They have a production of 750 bikes with a proprietary engine. They have to go after a market that will buy that bike. Who is their buyer? It is someone that has a fairly high income, who already owns one or more bikes, (more than likely a Harley) and who wants something a little different than a Harley but doesn't want to go out of the proverbial "box". Put this into perspective, Harley makes 300,000 units worldwide, Indian is making 750. That is .25% of what Harley does. Harley could care less about Indian. They are worried about the big four. It is like me saying I am going after the Indian market but manufacturing 2 bikes a year. There isn’t a large market out there for a very high priced Harley wannabe, but there are enough buyers. As for Buell being the new and exciting American company. That’s not true. Buell is a wholly owned subsidiary of Harley Davidson. HD has spent a tremendous amount on R&D, production and quality control on Buell. Talk to most HD dealers that carry Buell, they regret that they ever carried it and have very few sales. Sales of air cooled v-twins from Harley carry the Buell line. Harley is very careful not to label Buell bikes as Harley so as not to disturb their image. Look at the difference between a Harley dealership and other dealerships. Most have a ton of different bikes, a service area and an apparel area that is tiny. A Harley dealership is like an emporium. Half of it is a clothing outlet with a ton of stuff made in China. A woman could spend all day in there shopping for clothes. People eat that up though. Harley makes a ton of money off of overpriced clothing. Stellican is doing the same by heavily leveraging the Indian name and charging $50 plus for Chinese made t-shirts. I saw an empty oil can for only $20. What a joke. Stellican’s business plan is sound, the timing sucks but what they are doing is the only way to succeed. It’s just not for me. If I ever got an Indian, it would be one made from 1953 or prior. Also it wouldn’t surprise me if Harley was a silent partner.



ZzZzZzZz.....


2007 Harley Davidson FXD Super Glide.

Challenge your ignorance


Posted By : basshole - 10/16/2008 2:13 PM
I can hear chickenstrips heart breaking now.
Sloppy said...
I live near the new Indian dealership in Charlotte. The other day I visited it and saw the new Indians. They are very pretty. Much better looking in person than the pictures on the web site. There is a lot of bashing on Indian. I personally think that these bikes are way overpriced and a Harley clone. There is very little innovation, 45 degree air cooled V-twin, push rod, single pin crankshaft, with 2 valves per cylinder. (the brakes are nice though) It seems like they contacted Willie G to ask him what they needed to do to build a bike. I was very disappointed in what Indian was doing but the reason that I am is because I am not the buyer. That bike doesn't appeal to me especially for the price. (for that matter H-D doesn't either.) The Japanese bikes have tons more innovation, more power, better handling, more reliability and cost less than H-Ds. Indians reliability is to be determined. The sales rep at the dealership was arrogant, (maybe he didn't see me as a potential buyer because my kids were with me and I wasn't dressed in biker garb, he was right). The rep acted like to was a big deal for me to sit on the bike even though there wasn't anyone else in the store except me and my kids. But you really have to think about what Indian is trying to accomplish to appreciate the situation. They need to build a bike with nostalgia because that is what the Indian name is associated with. Why would they go and build a crotch rocket, and put the Indian name on it? They are trying to do what every company does and that is to make money. They have a production of 750 bikes with a proprietary engine. They have to go after a market that will buy that bike. Who is their buyer? It is someone that has a fairly high income, who already owns one or more bikes, (more than likely a Harley) and who wants something a little different than a Harley but doesn't want to go out of the proverbial "box". Put this into perspective, Harley makes 300,000 units worldwide, Indian is making 750. That is .25% of what Harley does. Harley could care less about Indian. They are worried about the big four. It is like me saying I am going after the Indian market but manufacturing 2 bikes a year. There isn’t a large market out there for a very high priced Harley wannabe, but there are enough buyers. As for Buell being the new and exciting American company. That’s not true. Buell is a wholly owned subsidiary of Harley Davidson. HD has spent a tremendous amount on R&D, production and quality control on Buell. Talk to most HD dealers that carry Buell, they regret that they ever carried it and have very few sales. Sales of air cooled v-twins from Harley carry the Buell line. Harley is very careful not to label Buell bikes as Harley so as not to disturb their image. Look at the difference between a Harley dealership and other dealerships. Most have a ton of different bikes, a service area and an apparel area that is tiny. A Harley dealership is like an emporium. Half of it is a clothing outlet with a ton of stuff made in China. A woman could spend all day in there shopping for clothes. People eat that up though. Harley makes a ton of money off of overpriced clothing. Stellican is doing the same by heavily leveraging the Indian name and charging $50 plus for Chinese made t-shirts. I saw an empty oil can for only $20. What a joke. Stellican’s business plan is sound, the timing sucks but what they are doing is the only way to succeed. It’s just not for me. If I ever got an Indian, it would be one made from 1953 or prior. Also it wouldn’t surprise me if Harley was a silent partner.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/23/2008 3:50 PM
Wrong basshole - nothing bothers me there.  There are lots of reasoned perceptions as to why a new Indian is not for Sloppy - some may change over time - or may not - only time will tell. I've heard many others call it quite a different way.  I'm sure it is not for you either.  It is not for me currently either.  We can discuss bikes and price all day long - but the crux of it Sloppy hit right here...
basshole said...
I can hear chickenstrips heart breaking now.
Sloppy said...
Stellican’s business plan is sound, the timing sucks but what they are doing is the only way to succeed.



Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/24/2008 2:27 PM
OKAY strips.
I hesitated to do this for obvious reasons.
But?
Here we go.

A question for all you riders out there.

Would you buy your $40k ICONIC INDIAN MOTORCYCLE from this man?
Mark Moses.
Owner of the first Stellican Indian Dealership in Lowell.




By the way--Mark would be the one wearing the REAL BIKERS GEAR Indian claims to sell.

Yep--I thought not :p
The older gentleman setting in the middle looks like he might be ready to throw up.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/24/2008 3:09 PM
LOL - is that all you got?  You don't like the way someone dresses?  Probably hoping to pick up some yuks and giggles on that one  - eh Cheef?  Yeah pretty much the m.o. you always seem to be showing here - casting generalities and opinions which mean nothing from you who works for a wannabe competitor.  Typical to attack the person from you - good luck with that.
KC Cheef said...
OKAY strips.
I hesitated to do this for obvious reasons.
But?
Here we go.

A question for all you riders out there.

Would you buy your $40k ICONIC INDIAN MOTORCYCLE from this man?
Mark Moses.
Owner of the first Stellican Indian Dealership in Lowell.




By the way--Mark would be the one wearing the REAL BIKERS GEAR Indian claims to sell.

Yep--I thought not :p
The older gentleman setting in the middle looks like he might be ready to throw up.

Posted By : basshole - 10/24/2008 3:21 PM
I bet he's really really lonely on his sales floor.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/24/2008 4:26 PM
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
LOL - is that all you got? You don't like the way someone dresses? Probably hoping to pick up some yuks and giggles on that one - eh Cheef? Yeah pretty much the m.o. you always seem to be showing here - casting generalities and opinions which mean nothing from you who works for a wannabe competitor. Typical to attack the person from you - good luck with that.


Yeah?
Read your post and report back.
LMFAO.

Let me see--you are accusing me of casting generalities and opinions?

Okay bucko--fill us in on a few facts on that new Stellican Indian Engine.
Fill us in on a few facts on that new high dollar Chief.
Got any hard data on it?
Or do you just drink the kool aid on your favorite Indian Board?

Does it seem a little strange to you that people would be willing to pay BIG BUCKS for another PP engine wiithout knowing a damn thing about it?

Okay--a 105 with EFI.

AND?

Is that all I got?
Well--to tell you the truth----NO.
Want to see a little more.

Come on strips--even as jaded (as in bought out by Stellican) as you and your buds seem to be don't you think that outfit might be just a LEETLE extreme?

Actually--now that you ask?
I do have another pic or two I'll put up for the folks when I get around to it.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/25/2008 5:30 PM
Okay.
I guess I'm feeling a little better about this whole new Indiandeal.
Looks like they've opened their SECOND Multi Million Dollar Dealership.
JESUS WEPT!

http://www.mikesmithindian.com/

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/26/2008 12:05 PM
KC Cheef said...
Okay.
I guess I'm feeling a little better about this whole new Indiandeal.
Looks like they've opened their SECOND Multi Million Dollar Dealership.
JESUS WEPT!

http://www.mikesmithindian.com/
freaked  Oh no it can't be!!!  They ain't gonna do nuthin - remember KC?  Funny how you are so critical of Indian.  LMAO   How many bike dealerships does your motorcycle  employer have? Oh that's right - you'd have to have a product and customers signed on and a factory to make product to even begin to start opening dealerships.  Must be finding lots wrong with all that "test riding" you're doing huh?  Bet you are tweaking that bike "just right" - should take the motorcycle market by storm - when can we expect it out again?
 
As far as educating you - that would be hard.  I have offered links to and pictures of the happenings and the info - if you were really interested you would just go read it on the Indian MC website.  But I know you are all about the bash and nuthing of real substance. Could really care less of a competitor's employee opinion such as yours.  But keep it up - makes you real famous.

Posted By : basshole - 10/26/2008 5:52 PM
Oh Boy!! They opened a dealership!!!rolleyes  And what have they sold?? :p  
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
KC Cheef said...
Okay.
I guess I'm feeling a little better about this whole new Indiandeal.
Looks like they've opened their SECOND Multi Million Dollar Dealership.
JESUS WEPT!

http://www.mikesmithindian.com/
freaked  Oh no it can't be!!!  They ain't gonna do nuthin - remember KC?  Funny how you are so critical of Indian.  LMAO   How many bike dealerships does your motorcycle  employer have? Oh that's right - you'd have to have a product and customers signed on and a factory to make product to even begin to start opening dealerships.  Must be finding lots wrong with all that "test riding" you're doing huh?  Bet you are tweaking that bike "just right" - should take the motorcycle market by storm - when can we expect it out again?
 
As far as educating you - that would be hard.  I have offered links to and pictures of the happenings and the info - if you were really interested you would just go read it on the Indian MC website.  But I know you are all about the bash and nuthing of real substance. Could really care less of a competitor's employee opinion such as yours.  But keep it up - makes you real famous.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/26/2008 5:54 PM
LMAO strips.
Funny how you manage to avoid an answer.
Word I'm getting is the new Chiefs will be ready before Christmas.
Question for you?
Where will you be able to pick them up?
Word from Indian was.
Exclusive Indian dealerships.
To the tune of millions of dollars to open one.
Now we see them being sold out of a MOPED dealership
Well--maybe--Nothing on that new site except copy and paste from Marks dealership, and a few mopeds to sweeten the site.

As for Crazy Horse?
Well we've gone over and over that one so I'll just let it slide.

I will say though that they seem to be gaining a following don't you think?
Lets turn your question around shall we?

I'd be willing to say that Crazy Horse has SOLD more engines than Indian has up to this point in time.
No fair claiming those deposits count as sales.
More like promises yet to be kept.

As for famous?
I got you pegged now.
You my friend are the one becoming famous.
Your stories are still being spread big guy.
Some of them would be to the point of unbelievable if you hadn't been writing them yourself.

Posted By : basshole - 10/26/2008 6:29 PM
so, where is the lastest quartery report for Indian?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/27/2008 12:18 PM

 

I don't know - I don't work there!!!  LOL GOT ME THERE BASSHOLE - tongue

basshole said...
Oh Boy!! They opened a dealership!!!rolleyes  And what have they sold?? :p  
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
KC Cheef said...
Okay.
I guess I'm feeling a little better about this whole new Indiandeal.
Looks like they've opened their SECOND Multi Million Dollar Dealership.
JESUS WEPT!

http://www.mikesmithindian.com/
freaked  Oh no it can't be!!!  They ain't gonna do nuthin - remember KC?  Funny how you are so critical of Indian.  LMAO   How many bike dealerships does your motorcycle  employer have? Oh that's right - you'd have to have a product and customers signed on and a factory to make product to even begin to start opening dealerships.  Must be finding lots wrong with all that "test riding" you're doing huh?  Bet you are tweaking that bike "just right" - should take the motorcycle market by storm - when can we expect it out again?
 
As far as educating you - that would be hard.  I have offered links to and pictures of the happenings and the info - if you were really interested you would just go read it on the Indian MC website.  But I know you are all about the bash and nuthing of real substance. Could really care less of a competitor's employee opinion such as yours.  But keep it up - makes you real famous.


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 10/27/2008 12:20 PM
LOL - dunno - privately held - LOL lol
basshole said...
so, where is the lastest quartery report for Indian?


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 10/27/2008 4:04 PM
Having owned three Indians, 2 1947 chiefs, and a 1,000cc 1913, was just hoping they'd have done something a little different on the fenders. Had to lay the Indian down several times........to change the frigging tires.

Posted By : basshole - 10/27/2008 8:56 PM
No $hit Sherlock!! So obviously any report regarding sales or sales volume revenue is just gonna be pure inflated BS. :p  So any "claims" you make about Indian doing sooooooo well can never be verified. lol lol lol
MoreChickenStrips said...
LOL - dunno - privately held - LOL lol
basshole said...
so, where is the lastest quartery report for Indian?



Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/28/2008 3:20 PM
basshole said...
No $hit Sherlock!! So obviously any report regarding sales or sales volume revenue is just gonna be pure inflated BS. :p  So any "claims" you make about Indian doing sooooooo well can never be verified. lol lol lol
MoreChickenStrips said...
LOL - dunno - privately held - LOL lol
basshole said...
so, where is the lastest quartery report for Indian?


 
I'd like to hear that even one motorcycle has been sold.  Lot's of stuff here about "orders" and "pre-sales" but do they actually have, you know, a product that people can pay money for and drive off the lot?  Because I'm pretty sure that you can't say Indian is "Back" until they do. 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : Sloppy - 10/28/2008 4:33 PM
Martin: They do. I saw them at the dealership. There were 12-20 bikes there.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/30/2008 6:07 PM
Sloppy said...
Martin: They do. I saw them at the dealership. There were 12-20 bikes there.


Sloppy.
Actually they DO NOT have ANY bikes for sale.
You CAN NOT walk into the dealership and BUY a motorcycle.
Those bikes you saw?
They are the same motorcycles that have been being hauled around the country for the past 6 months and put on display.

You CAN put up a $1000 deposit and go on the list to have one built.

I'm hearing through the grapevine that delivery has been promised in time for Christmas.
They haven't stated which Christmas yet--but I'm kind of hearing folks are hopeful that just maybe it might be this Christmas.


Interesting thing
One of the sites they were hauled to in California--a perspective dealership?
Well they are now off the dealership list.
Rumor I heard is the California dealer was NOT impressed with what he saw.

Hey Strips.
In fact it looks like Indian is NOT a Privately held firm.


September 22, 2006
Indian Motorcycle raises $30M for relaunch
Charlotte Business Journal


Indian Motorcycle Co. says it has raised $30 million from a private investor to fund the relaunch of its business.

Indian Motorcycle is buying a 40,000-square-foot manufacturing facility in Cleveland County and expects to start production there next year. The plant, on 11 acres, will be expandable to 125,000 square feet.

"This capital increase is a clear demonstration of our significant commitment to the successful future of Indian Motorcycle," says Stephen Julius, company chairman. "It ensures that the company has the proper financial foundation."

The company, which has 12 employees, didn't identify the investor.

In a related development, the company has named Steve Heese as its president. He succeeds David Wright, who resigned in late August.

Heese is a longtime investor and partner with Stellican Ltd., which controls Indian Motorcycle.

In late July, United Kingdom-based Stellican said it would invest $41.5 million in a pair of Cleveland County factories that will eventually employ more than 800 workers.

Stellican also controls Chris-Craft Corp., the country's oldest boatmaker. Heese is also president of Chris-Craft.

Chris-Craft will open a manufacturing facility in Kings Mountain that will grow to 655 employees over the next five years.

That plant also is scheduled to start production next year.

For each year the companies meet certain performance targets, North Carolina will give them grants equivalent to 65 percent of the state personal income tax withholdings from the new jobs.

If the sister companies create all of the anticipated jobs, Indian Motorcycle and Chris-Craft could receive incentives totaling $7.56 million.

Those incentives?
Well--good luck to them holding up their end,

Damn!
I need to do a little looking around.
Strips--you asked for a few more pictures, ad I'm thinking I have a few somewhere that will just crack you up!!!!
In fact - you and a fw of your buds are right in the middle of them, and yep--yo daddy Mark is right there with you.

LMAO--I love it when you guys get tuff!!!

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 10/31/2008 1:15:12 AM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 10/30/2008 9:38 PM
Hey Cheef, when I saw the Indians at COOKS this summer, NO ONE was impressed. In fact, they were virtually ignore based on the number of folks there. I mean the truck looks nice and the $900.00 Chinese Leather Jackets looked good and well, you get the picture.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Sloppy - 10/31/2008 7:55 AM
Cheef:

Thanks for the info. I did not know that they were strictly display models right now. Like I said earlier, the sales rep was a di--head, and acted like he wasn't interested in selling anything to me. I think KM is expecting too much revenue from overpriced Chinese t-shirts and BS. They recently dropped their pricing on clothing from a ridiculous outrageous price down to just being overpriced. Sounds like blood brother is selling snake oil to white man. Hope um takes wampum instead of white devils dollars. One thing you mentioned, the $30 million injection look like it is still from a private investor. To be a public company, it would have to be listed where any individual could buy shares. Indian certainly has a tough road to hoe. If this fails, I hope Indian will RIP and people can remember the real Indians that were built between 1901-1953. The Gilroy and KM look strictly like FLDX copycats with aero skirts to me. The magic question that everyone wants to know is can they get the magic 750 buyers this year at close to MSRP and will they be able to sustain that number and a higher one for the next 5 years? I couldn't imagine paying that kind of money for that bike.

Posted By : basshole - 10/31/2008 11:14 AM
At 39k per bike, if they sell all 750 bikes that just misses the 30 million mark. That's gross revenue so they gotta be bankin heavy on lot's over overpriced $950.00 Chinese jackets if they ever hope to turn a profit. How long till the inverstors start demanding a return on their investment? Based on whats happening in the economy, I doubt many of those investor have the capital anymore to let any of their money just sit and collect dust or get flushed down the toilet. I think the whole effort will fold up by 2011
Sloppy said...
Cheef:

Thanks for the info. I did not know that they were strictly display models right now. Like I said earlier, the sales rep was a di--head, and acted like he wasn't interested in selling anything to me. I think KM is expecting too much revenue from overpriced Chinese t-shirts and BS. They recently dropped their pricing on clothing from a ridiculous outrageous price down to just being overpriced. Sounds like blood brother is selling snake oil to white man. Hope um takes wampum instead of white devils dollars. One thing you mentioned, the $30 million injection look like it is still from a private investor. To be a public company, it would have to be listed where any individual could buy shares. Indian certainly has a tough road to hoe. If this fails, I hope Indian will RIP and people can remember the real Indians that were built between 1901-1953. The Gilroy and KM look strictly like FLDX copycats with aero skirts to me. The magic question that everyone wants to know is can they get the magic 750 buyers this year at close to MSRP and will they be able to sustain that number and a higher one for the next 5 years? I couldn't imagine paying that kind of money for that bike.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/31/2008 12:39 PM
basshole said...
At 39k per bike, if they sell all 750 bikes that just misses the 30 million mark. That's gross revenue so they gotta be bankin heavy on lot's over overpriced $950.00 Chinese jackets if they ever hope to turn a profit. How long till the inverstors start demanding a return on their investment? Based on whats happening in the economy, I doubt many of those investor have the capital anymore to let any of their money just sit and collect dust or get flushed down the toilet. I think the whole effort will fold up by 2011
 


Okay, I laughed at that at first but then when I was at lunch I pulled out my calculator and came up with something interesting:

Cost of new Indian motorcycle:  $35,000

Cost of Chinese "Indian" Jacket: $950.00

950 / 35,000 = .027 which is to say the jacket is 2.7% of the motorcycle price. 

Now, the most expensive motorcycle I ever purchased was the 2001 Triumph Thunderbird I bought in 2005 for $5000, and honestly, I think I'd have a hard time paying over $5k for a motorcycle no matter how nice it is. 

That same year I also bought a Joe Rocket Meteor 3.0 jacket for about $140. 

140 /  5000 = .028, so the jacket was 2.8% of the motorcycle price. 

Bottom line?  These Stellican guys may be on to something.  Anyone gullible enthusiastic enough to lay down 35 large on a motorcycle would probably be quite willing to spend $950 on a jacket, no matter where it was made.  :p


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 10/31/2008 4:45 PM
Ya know that's true!!! God I'd love to get my hands on their customer list. Even if it is only 1 page long!!! lol  Think of what you can charge them for other meanigless items???freaked
martinjmpr said...
basshole said...
At 39k per bike, if they sell all 750 bikes that just misses the 30 million mark. That's gross revenue so they gotta be bankin heavy on lot's over overpriced $950.00 Chinese jackets if they ever hope to turn a profit. How long till the inverstors start demanding a return on their investment? Based on whats happening in the economy, I doubt many of those investor have the capital anymore to let any of their money just sit and collect dust or get flushed down the toilet. I think the whole effort will fold up by 2011
 


Okay, I laughed at that at first but then when I was at lunch I pulled out my calculator and came up with something interesting:

Cost of new Indian motorcycle:  $35,000

Cost of Chinese "Indian" Jacket: $950.00

950 / 35,000 = .027 which is to say the jacket is 2.7% of the motorcycle price. 

Now, the most expensive motorcycle I ever purchased was the 2001 Triumph Thunderbird I bought in 2005 for $5000, and honestly, I think I'd have a hard time paying over $5k for a motorcycle no matter how nice it is. 

That same year I also bought a Joe Rocket Meteor 3.0 jacket for about $140. 

140 /  5000 = .028, so the jacket was 2.8% of the motorcycle price. 

Bottom line?  These Stellican guys may be on to something.  Anyone gullible enthusiastic enough to lay down 35 large on a motorcycle would probably be quite willing to spend $950 on a jacket, no matter where it was made.  :p


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/1/2008 9:55 PM
Well?
For all you naysayers?
A little greeting from those hard core biker dudes.
Hey strips.
I got another one with you in it.
Wanna see it?
LOL.
I don't know--seems some strange conduct from the owner of the first ICONIC INDIAN DEALERSHIP owner to be grabbing his crotch and flipping the bird in the parking lot on grand opening day.
Those 2 beside him?
Friends of strips.



PS
Hey Bobby.
That $140 T-Shirt is truly ICONIC turn

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 11/2/2008 4:43:51 PM GMT


Posted By : Wilcon - 11/3/2008 4:03 PM
Sadly these guys are on the wrong track. Indian someday may make a complete comeback but honestly I doubt it's with this group.


I put alot of effort into making the rear of my bike look good. It's what everyone sees.
-me


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/3/2008 4:42 PM
Well--it's gonna be a hard row to hoe.

Hey basshole.
That little bit of a glimpse of these guys I sent you via PM yesterday?
Well--I posted it last night--gone this morning.

Also lost the PM we exchanged--that's kind of weird isn't it?

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 11/3/2008 11:46:01 PM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 11/3/2008 5:17 PM
yeah it is Cheef. very very interesting.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/3/2008 5:34 PM
I just got your PM--can't reply.
You all ride safe--and tell strips hello for me.

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 11/14/2008 7:58 AM
Awright you Indian freaks!
 
We've started a new forum just for cruiserbikes, and it has a section reserved just for Indians!
 
Unfortunately it is horribly underpopulated, as Indian owners on our site are outnumbered about 350 to zero right now. We've got a few glossies from the new Indian promotional photos posted up and that's that.
 
So maybe you could spread the faith by posting some photos of your rides etc there? We'd love to see them.
 
We screen out all the sportbike guys at the front door, so you won't have to listen about how cruisers have bad brakes and don't handle right and you can't get one with a replica Valentino Rossi paint job.
 
The site is here:
 
 
Here's the link to the Indian-only area:
 
 
(You'll have to register, but it's free. We don't spam you, and we pay $ out of our pockets to host the site for you so there's no advertizing to annoy the members.)
 
Ride 'til the wheels fall off!
Cadd.
 
PS: Sportbike guys can actually still join, IF they own a cruiser or have some interest in cruisers, but there's no bashing of other brands allowed. No bashing is allowed of anything except in the special bashing area, which has a secret password.
 
 
(Hint: it's a three letter word for an armed conflict between nations.)
 
Best,
Cadd.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com

Post Edited (CaddmannQ) : 11/14/2008 3:02:11 PM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 11/14/2008 11:36 AM
Cadd you rock bro!!


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/17/2008 12:51 PM
Right on.
I'm heading over there.

Do I get to post the letter from Mark Moses over there?
Or will it get deleted?

I'm still trying to figure out why that happened.
Oh well--hey strips--lets go talk Indian some.

I'm anxious to hear your latest spin on the mountain.

Oh--word I am getting now?
$32 to $39k is not going to get you decked out.

Seems a lot of the leather you see on the display bikes is "upgraded" from the list price.
Seems like you also get to pay a little extra for caliper covers to hide those big nasty cutouts in the fenders.
Seems like the price can just keep going up till you holler uncle and beg for mercy.
Seems like they weren't shitting when the said ICONIC, and for the upper crust of the Motocycling world.

Posted By : basshole - 11/17/2008 2:43 PM
I still wanna know how you turn a profit with an anticipated annual volume of 750 units.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 11/17/2008 9:41 PM
basshole said...
I still wanna know how you turn a profit with an anticipated annual volume of 750 units.


Well?
I'm kind of thinking if they can sell 750 $15k motorcycles at $35 to $40k they would be doing all right.
Add in half a dozen suckers to invest a few million dollars for the right to a dealership and I'm thinking it might be making a profit.
Of course -- eventually you'd be looking at supplying those dealerships with MOTORCYCLES--but that can be some time on down the road.
In the mean time?
Those carefully selected--highly screened--top of the line dedicated dealerships can get by selling MOPEDS until the motorcycles come in.

Hey?
Trivia question for the day.
Who is in charge of dealership development for the new Indian Motorcycle Company?
And?
What position did he hold in the past reincarnation of Indian Motorcycles.

You forget basshole.
It's NOT about the money.
It's about the ICONIC HERITAGE and ELITE MOTORCYCLES.

Posted By : basshole - 11/18/2008 11:43 AM
pppffffttt........silly me! And here I thought it was about getting a tidy return on the investment. So it's status we're after not $$$$$ yet they charge extra $$$$ for the status but they can't sell enough status to make $$$$$ so they tell us it's an ICON of American Manufacturing.......ahhh.....I see said the blind man.....
KC Cheef said...
basshole said...
I still wanna know how you turn a profit with an anticipated annual volume of 750 units.


Well?
I'm kind of thinking if they can sell 750 $15k motorcycles at $35 to $40k they would be doing all right.
Add in half a dozen suckers to invest a few million dollars for the right to a dealership and I'm thinking it might be making a profit.
Of course -- eventually you'd be looking at supplying those dealerships with MOTORCYCLES--but that can be some time on down the road.
In the mean time?
Those carefully selected--highly screened--top of the line dedicated dealerships can get by selling MOPEDS until the motorcycles come in.

Hey?
Trivia question for the day.
Who is in charge of dealership development for the new Indian Motorcycle Company?
And?
What position did he hold in the past reincarnation of Indian Motorcycles.

You forget basshole.
It's NOT about the money.
It's about the ICONIC HERITAGE and ELITE MOTORCYCLES.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : freebird - 12/2/2008 4:34 PM
KM-INDIAN BUSINESS PLAN:
Phase 1: Build Harley-esque cruisers with valanced fenders
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!

Posted By : EdbearNZ - 12/2/2008 11:32 PM
Is this the longest running thread on MCUSA..?


A doctor examining a woman who had been rushed to the Emergency Room, took the husband aside, and said, "I don't like the looks of your wife at all."

Me neither doc," said the husband. "But she's a great cook and really good with the kids."


Posted By : basshole - 12/7/2008 6:06 PM
I went to the IMS show in Long Beach, CA today. The only manufacturer NOT there....................yup, Indian. There were a complete no show.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/17/2008 6:52 AM
Hey basshole--cut them a little slack.
They have GRAND OPENINGS to be taking care of.
There's a Vespa Dealership/IndianDealership in PADUCAH they need to be taking care of this weekend.
Coming up soon--a Honda Power Sports/Indian Dealership to be taking care of getting opened--then a Car dealership/Indian Dealership to get opened up.

Ohh--for the good old days when they were looking for EXCLUSIVE Indian Motorcycle dealers.
Remember that strips?
$2 to $5 MILLION Dollar Dealerships dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to INDIAN MOTORCYCLES.
None of that TRASHY shared showroom business like in the TACKY old Gilroy days.

For those of you interested?
Better log onto the Indian Home site and check out the new Clothing stores they'll be selling out of soon!!
I know the one in KANSAS CITY is VERY EXCLUSIVE.
PINSTRIPES on the PLAAAZAAA!!!
LMMFAO!!!!!

I ALWAYS shop for my REAL RIDING GEAR at PINSTRIPES on the PLAAAZAAA!!!!


One good thing about that new VESPA/INDIAN Dealership in PADUCAH,KAINTUK?
Looks like they will have 17 INDIAN MOTORCYCLES on the showroom floor.
And from talking to the sale people there it looks like this will be your FIRST oppurtunity to walk in and ride off on an INDIAN MOTORCYCLE.

Seems strange to me that the dealership in Lowell won't sell you one to take home yet--but the dealership in Kaintuk will sell you one this weekend.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 12/17/2008 1:55:34 PM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 12/17/2008 11:40 AM
I was thinkin of something else too. What about those people who put a $1000.00 down (I dunno how many actually did it. maybe 65-75 people tops I'd guess) to be first to get one. Well, how are those people gonna get financed now? And I wonder how many demanded to get their money back.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/17/2008 2:08 PM
I figure you are pretty damn close to the right number of deposits.
WORD from the faithful is 200 or so--but I'm thinking the faithful might stretch things just a tad bit.
Hell--I'm thinking some of the faithful would flat out LIE to kind of spread the glory--I know a few of the FAITHFUL--and I can tell you for sure--they'll tell a fib when it suits their purpose.
Yep--imagine walking into your local bank or credit union now days and asking for a loan on a bike that hasn't been built yet--let's make it for around 40 to 45k by the time you add the taxes and goodies you might want to stick on there.
I'm thinking the loan officer would probably laugh you out the door.
Course--those elite folks that have a chance at buying one of them probably don't take out loans -- probably just plunk down the bucks!

Word I hear is the dealers get the bikes FIRST--then they start working on the orders that have been in for 3 years or so.
I'm thinking I'd be kind of MIFFED if I'd had a grand down for three years and got blindsided by the dealership network coming on line.

AND!!
I still want to know what happened to the MOET & CHANDON CHAMPAGNE CHIEFS they sold in California a few years ago.
Those were supposedly the first StellicIndians ever sold--and I haven't seen hide or hair of them.

Next up would have to be the one they auctioned off for the Music Benefit in NY City a few years ago--not sure if that ever got done though--I heard the top bid was around $10k--so I'm not sure they went ahead and donated that one.

Then of course there'd be the one they were going to give away in Sturgis 2 years ago--seems that kind of went by the way side--I read online somewhere that it was a "misprint" in some giveaway biker rag and was later withdrawn.

I'm hoping strips will step in and kind of enlighten us mere wannna be Indian riders--I'm thinking strips knows the THREE WISE MEN who visited the mOUNTAIN--and he might be able to shed some ever lovin light on questions folks might have as the TIME TO RIDE draws closer!!!!!

Posted By : basshole - 12/17/2008 10:45 PM
so has one even been built yet? why don't they attend the big bike shows? I mean they had the lil dog & pony show with the trailer during the summer but hey I'm guessin they did that because at those there was NO COMPETITION!


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/18/2008 7:00 AM
Yep--word is there are over 100 of them already made, and they ARE being delivered to dealerships right now.
Paduca, Kaintuk is now stocked with MOTOCYCLES as well as the Lowell dealership.
I'm still trying to figure out why the hell the Lowell dealership has had MOTOCYCLES for 6 weeks and they still won't sell you one and let you ride it out the door--seems kind of strange to just let them set on the floor like stage props.

The dog and pony show during the summer?
Well--once again I wish strips would speak up.
Kind of weird that one stop for the dog and pony show out in California resulted in the prospective dealership getting taken off the dealership list.

COMPETITION?
What other motorcycle brand would stand a chance of competing with AMERICAS ORIGNAL MOTORCYCLE?
LMAO--

Posted By : homer14 - 12/19/2008 6:12 PM
man..i've been away for too long...been so busy with work i kinda forgot about this place.. haven't been on any forums lately...
haven't had time to do any riding either..but i think that's about to change...just took the covers off of the bikes and fell in love again..
haven't pulled the trigger yet, but i think an 09 may be in the cards..
from what i've learned over the past couple years, to hearing them lay out the LONG TERM, SLOW GROWTH plan, to seeing the chiefs in branson and in cali, to speaking with the players--steves, chris , mark and mark moses and any of the other people i've spoken to over at Indian, I think the brand IS in the right hands and they are on the right track..Their plans for the future, the personal investment they have in the company and the drive to see a dream succeed speaks volumes to me.
KC, I know you're not interested, but if you stood back and took an objective look, you'd be impressed at the progress they've made. Maybe they haven't done things they way you or I or countless others would have, but they've forged ahead, and have a much better initial offering than anything Gilroy ever would have put out.  And to hear them talk about bikes aimed at females and sport bikes and racing bikes and inline 4's etc...if they can pull it off, the entire bike world will benefit. Know one knows what the future holds, but I for one hopes Indian is a player for a while to come...
Merry Christmas to you and the Mrs KC...hope you get lots of fringe...
homer

Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/20/2008 8:14 AM
Merry Christmas right back at ya Homer.

You better be thinking OKLAHOMA come June--gonna be a Pow Wow!!!!

As far as a StellicIndian in my future?

I'd never consider buying one too many good Gilroys out there--but I'll probably be riding one soon.

Nope--too many questions about them--and no value for the money there.

I'm still curious as to why they are so damn secretive about that engine.

Hey--I'll give you a call and we can talk about what a friend of mine was told by an Indian salesman.
Either this salesman is a scam arteest--or Indian needs to do a little tutoring before they turn folks loose to sell.

Posted By : norton - 12/21/2008 7:58 PM
So are they selling these things yet or is it still all just a bunch of smoke?


madfun said...

Sooner or later opinions fade, and the name on the tank matters not. I think that happens somewhere between 4th and 5th gear. Enjoy the ride... the rest takes care of itself.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/22/2008 6:18 AM
Hey norton.
Second dealership had its grand opening this past weekend, and the first dealership has been open for over 2 months.
I haven't heard of ANYONE riding one home yet.

I'm trying to find out right now about the Paducah dealership and if they sent any bikes home this weekend.
But none of the faithfull seem to want to say anything.
I'm kind of thinking SOMEONE must have taken one home by now.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 12/22/2008 1:24:46 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/22/2008 11:20 PM
OH MY!!!
Hot off the presses!!
Hey strips--looks like there might be a problem!!!
Anyone want to see some legal proceedings that took place today?
INTERESTING READING!!!

Posted By : basshole - 12/22/2008 11:36 PM
So what happened??


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/23/2008 8:03 AM
Hey basshole.
Check your email.
I tried to send it to you in a PM and couldn't get it to go.

From what I understand-it is a public document--and it was agreed this past Monday that it does have Merit before the Courts and WILL be heard.

OH MY!!!!!

Posted By : martinjmpr - 12/23/2008 9:16 AM
KC Cheef said...
Hey basshole.
Check your email.
I tried to send it to you in a PM and couldn't get it to go.

From what I understand-it is a public document--and it was agreed this past Monday that it does have Merit before the Courts and WILL be heard.

OH MY!!!!!
Aww, now you're just teasing us!  :p
 
What is it?  Creditors demanding reassurances that they'll get their investment money back?  Stockholders demanding to know what's going on with sales?  Financial disclosures that paint a less-than-rosy picture of future sales?
 
Inquiring minds want to know!  smilewinkgrin


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/23/2008 11:29 AM
I'm a pleaser--not a teaser--check your email.
I don't know how to get that posted up here.
Interesting reading though.

Posted By : martinjmpr - 12/23/2008 12:21 PM
KC Cheef said...
I'm a pleaser--not a teaser--check your email.
I don't know how to get that posted up here.
Interesting reading though.
Ah, OK, just skimmed it. 
 
The complaint is dated July of 06 and regards a claim by the receiver for the old, defunct Gilroy Indian company against the original owners.  The complaint alleges that they didn't have the right to sell the Indian name and other intellectual property without also including some specific limitations on its use.  I didn't read all 31 pages of the complaint in its entirety but the gist of it was that when the previous Indian went bust there were some shady dealings and now one of the companies that received assets when Gilroy folded is seeking some relief. 

In many ways it looks like a "shotgun suit", or maybe a better description would be a "throw it at the wall and see what sticks" suit.  I don't think it will have a direct impact on Indian except that they will incur costs trying to fight it. 
 
If the judge said that the suit "had merit" that means is that it survived a motion for summary judgment.  However, all that means is that the plaintiffs have stated a case that, if proved, would entitle them to some relief.  The key words there are "if proved" and proving the allegations is the big issue. 
 
It would be like me accusing you of stealing my car.  It may be that you and I have never met or even been in the same state at the same time, that case would probably go forward because if I did prove it, I'd be entitled to some relief. 
 
In other words, just because a suit survives summary judgment doesn't mean that it is not a nuisance suit, or a fishing expedition, or a cash grab. 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 12/23/2008 12:31 PM
Ahh yes--but it does open the door to some more questions that might be raised.
From what I understand--it kind of allows the gates to be opened publicly and legally for the first time.
More to the story -- and more to come shortly.
Interesting times for Indian and a few other folks.
The whole Gilroy ordeal was just amazing.
Gonna add another page to that sad old Indian History.
Indian
Never owned by AMF
But scammed and schemed by more SOBs than you'd care to count.

Man--even the Springfield days had some sad history behind them.

Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/7/2009 2:17 PM

The first delivery of a 2009 King's Mountain Indian

Dec 20, 2008 in Toledo, OH

 


Posted By : basshole - 1/7/2009 5:44 PM
what about the rest of em? Was this someone who laid out 1k on the front back forever and a day ago? Oh I see on Indians website that they no longer have a dealership in the works for California. so if someone in CA wants one, they gotta go to Phoenix to get one. freaked Now how does that work if you need service on one?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/7/2009 8:01 PM
Hey strips.
I been waiting for you to post that.
Seems like John White buying one and actually admitting it brought another customer out didn't it.
Folks--strips feeling were hurt because John White was the first to buy a KM Indian and admit it in public.
I get to go pick it up in about a week and ride it for a few months.
Uh--basshole?
The reason the Cali dealerships got booted?
Those bikes are RUMORED to be non compliant in California.
Strips can confirm that since he's sold out to Kings Mountain--but he won't -- he'll avoid that one like the plague.

Posted By : basshole - 1/7/2009 10:12 PM
KC Cheef said...
Hey strips.
I been waiting for you to post that.
Seems like John White buying one and actually admitting it brought another customer out didn't it.
Folks--strips feeling were hurt because John White was the first to buy a KM Indian and admit it in public.
I get to go pick it up in about a week and ride it for a few months.
Uh--basshole?
The reason the Cali dealerships got booted?
Those bikes are RUMORED to be non compliant in California.
Strips can confirm that since he's sold out to Kings Mountain--but he won't -- he'll avoid that one like the plague.


Yeah I kinda figured that was the case. Oh well, there's minimal interest in Indian out here anyways so I doubt they would have done well here.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : homer14 - 1/7/2009 10:13 PM
Not sure about your data KC...I don't think JW was the first person to buy a chief...if he has bought one? I think there's at least one or two that were sold waiting at the dealership in Lowell for the owners to pick up.
As for Cali...I don't think the Chiefs are 49/50 state yet, but that is not the reasoning behind the dealer there being excluded. Another dealer(s) will be coming on line in Cali later this year, from what I've heard.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/8/2009 3:28 AM
I'll agree with you Homer--he WAS NOT the first to buy a Chief.
He WAS the first to actually admit it.
As for the Cali dealers?
There were at least 2 on the list at one time or another--both gone now.
Can't have a dealership if yu aren't allowed to sell them.

Posted By : martinjmpr - 1/8/2009 8:41 AM
basshole said...
 freaked Now how does that work if you need service on one?

I guess if you own a $35,000 piece of butt jewelry, you put it on your private jet and fly it to Kings Mountain.  :p


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/8/2009 4:30 PM
Again - for those interested...
 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Indian Motorcycle launches Factory Delivery Program

Kings Mountain, NC—Indian Motorcycle announced today its new Factory Delivery Program which allows customers to order a motorcycle through an authorized dealership and pick it up at the factory. All 2009 Indian Chiefs are eligible for the new delivery program. Factory Delivery offers a personal VIP tour of the factory and bike delivery in the customer delivery area of the plant. The factory and world headquarters is located in Kings Mountain, N.C., 37 miles west of Charlotte. The VIP tour is given by a member of the IMC staff who guides participants through each step of the bike building process. Beginning in engine assembly and ending on the vehicle build line, new owners get to observe a team of craftsmen building the next generation of Indian Chief Motorcycles.

Factory Delivery customers must contact their local Indian Motorcycle dealership to participate in the program. If there is no dealership in their area, they can contact the flagship store located right outside of Charlotte, NC. Indian Motorcycle dealership staff will assist Factory Delivery participants with choosing their bike, scheduling their trip, and getting their bike home.

In addition to touring the factory, participants are invited to visit the flagship store where they can view the entire lineup of 2009 Chief Motorcycles, Indian Motorcycle accessories, apparel and gifts. After picking up their motorcycle, riders have quick access to some of the most beautiful roads in the country. The Carolinas boasts nearly year-round riding weather and is home to world class restaurants and accommodations.

Indian, American’s first motorcycle company, recently announced the opening of dealerships in Charlotte, N.C., Paducah, Ky., Omaha, Neb., Detroit, Mich., Phoenix, Ariz., Wichita, Kan., and Pittsburgh, Pa., and the release of four 2009 Indian Chief Models: Chief Standard, Chief Deluxe, Chief Roadmaster and Chief Vintage.

For more information on the Factory Delivery Program, the motorcycles, accessories, apparel and gifts visit www.indianmotorcycle.com

###

For more information on Indian Motorcycle Company, please visit:
www.indianmotorcycle.com

Posted By : basshole - 1/8/2009 5:20 PM
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
Again - for those interested...



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Indian Motorcycle launches Factory Delivery Program

Kings Mountain, NC—Indian Motorcycle announced today its new Factory Delivery Program which allows customers to order a motorcycle through an authorized dealership and pick it up at the factory. All 2009 Indian Chiefs are eligible for the new delivery program. Factory Delivery offers a personal VIP tour of the factory and bike delivery in the customer delivery area of the plant. The factory and world headquarters is located in Kings Mountain, N.C., 37 miles west of Charlotte. The VIP tour is given by a member of the IMC staff who guides participants through each step of the bike building process. Beginning in engine assembly and ending on the vehicle build line, new owners get to observe a team of craftsmen building the next generation of Indian Chief Motorcycles.

Factory Delivery customers must contact their local Indian Motorcycle dealership to participate in the program. If there is no dealership in their area, they can contact the flagship store located right outside of Charlotte, NC. Indian Motorcycle dealership staff will assist Factory Delivery participants with choosing their bike, scheduling their trip, and getting their bike home.

In addition to touring the factory, participants are invited to visit the flagship store where they can view the entire lineup of 2009 Chief Motorcycles, Indian Motorcycle accessories, apparel and gifts. After picking up their motorcycle, riders have quick access to some of the most beautiful roads in the country. The Carolinas boasts nearly year-round riding weather and is home to world class restaurants and accommodations.

Indian, American’s first motorcycle company, recently announced the opening of dealerships in Charlotte, N.C., Paducah, Ky., Omaha, Neb., Detroit, Mich., Phoenix, Ariz., Wichita, Kan., and Pittsburgh, Pa., and the release of four 2009 Indian Chief Models: Chief Standard, Chief Deluxe, Chief Roadmaster and Chief Vintage.

For more information on the Factory Delivery Program, the motorcycles, accessories, apparel and gifts visit www.indianmotorcycle.com

###

For more information on Indian Motorcycle Company, please visit:
www.indianmotorcycle.com


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz................they are a non factor. boutique bike at best.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/9/2009 8:59 PM
Well strips.
Looks like we'll be learning a few things about the KM Indians shortly.
John is letting me pick up his new Chief from the Paducah, Kentucky Dealership in abut 1 week.
Going to keep it in Kansas City and ride it for a few months.
Kind of check it out, and get the feel of it.

Any one on this board from around KC?
We can get together and see what this ICONIC Indian Chief is really all about.
I can't wait to ride a motorcycle that I can't afford to own.

Hey Homer!!
Wanna ride a KM Indian?
You got a standing invite.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/9/2009 9:02 PM
Oh--forgot.Strips did avoid that California thing didn't he?
Figures though.
Him and his buds are KMs Marketing Team.
They aren't very good at it--but they are FREE>
Well--then again--nothing is ever free is it strips?

Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/13/2009 3:42 PM
indianmotorcyclephoenix.com/


www.chestershd.com/

This seems kind of interesting???

Posted By : martinjmpr - 1/14/2009 10:22 AM
KC Cheef said...
indianmotorcyclephoenix.com/


www.chestershd.com/

This seems kind of interesting???
At first I didn't get it until I looked at the addresses.  So they're one and the same?  I had thought the Indian dealerships were supposed to be stand-alone? 
 
Seems a little self-defeating to have a joint HD/Indian dealership, though.  Unless maybe people come in to look at the Indians but actually buy an HD.  That's good for the dealer but not so good for Indian...


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 1/14/2009 10:58 AM
martinjmpr said...
KC Cheef said...

indianmotorcyclephoenix.com/


www.chestershd.com/

This seems kind of interesting???
At first I didn't get it until I looked at the addresses. So they're one and the same? I had thought the Indian dealerships were supposed to be stand-alone?


Seems a little self-defeating to have a joint HD/Indian dealership, though. Unless maybe people come in to look at the Indians but actually buy an HD. That's good for the dealer but not so good for Indian...

Exactly!! What a great way to make HD look like a bargain at full MSRP. I kinda get the impression Indian is desperate for anyone to step up to the plate and be a dealer.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/14/2009 9:25 PM
martinjmpr;
Stand alone?
Yes they were SUPPOSED to be stand alone dealerships when Indian first went looking for Dealerships.
From what I understand now though--there are 3 levels.
You can get in as low as $160k from what I've been told.

Those dealerships you see on their website?
Vespa dealers--Honda Power Sports dealer--Harley Davidson Dealers--and Small Mom and Pop places.
Kind of makes you wonder if they didn't have much luck selling the mega buck stand alone idea to people.
I did hear there will be a little bridge kind of deal separating Chester Indian Dealership from Chesters HD Dealership.
Yep--if you can't spend enough on a Harley--there'll be an Indian Dealer right next door to take your money.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/14/2009 9:28 PM
basshole.
Indian KM has the same Director of Dealerhship Development as Gilroy had.
He just kind of drifted from Gilroy down to KM.
Gary Busch is his name if I remember right--if it matters to any one I can look it up and confirm.

Posted By : martinjmpr - 1/15/2009 8:16 AM
KC Cheef said...
martinjmpr;
Stand alone?
Yes they were SUPPOSED to be stand alone dealerships when Indian first went looking for Dealerships.
From what I understand now though--there are 3 levels.
You can get in as low as $160k from what I've been told.
Ha!  Weren't they demanding something like $4 million for a franchise when this thing started up?  Oh, how the mighty have fallen!  smilewinkgrin
 
I know it's not cool to revel in the misery of another, but if us dummies on MCUSA saw this train wreck coming years ago, why didn't the people with the bucks?  Are they that stupid? 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : NoMoreChickenStrips - 1/15/2009 11:00 AM
martinjmpr said...
I know it's not cool to revel in the misery of another, but if us dummies on MCUSA saw this train wreck coming years ago, why didn't the people with the bucks?  Are they that stupid? 

You know what is pretty funny?  The badmouthing that goes on here.  Are they that stupid?  Yeah I guess they were stupid enough:
  •  to turn around Riva Boats
  •  to turn around Chris Craft
  •  to buy Indian IP, come up with their own private financing and plan
  •  to begin the methodical execution of that plan
  •  to not let Cheef's boss annoy them with their sky is falling no merit lawsuits
  •  to not listen to the "dummies on MCUSA" as you put it (unfortunate words - I have more respect for most of the folk here)
  •  to not do it any way but theirs and be beholden to no one but themselves - and still be going
  •  to start a "New" Indian motorcycle when others taunted them and said "they ain't don' nuthin'"
  •  to make deals and create a motorcycle factory despite the lies of the group said "there is no factory"
  •  to accumulate undisclosed suppliers - not open for public debate - despite some that claim they  know - they don't have any
  •  to continue to build a business - including a dealer network and NOT listen to all the "geniuses" that can do it better
They are in NC building bikes and taking orders for new ones.  They are executing their plan and have done a lot that will be known - soon enough.  Yeah pretty stupid...ROFLMAO Critics be damned - best of luck Indian.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/15/2009 2:25 PM
Uhh--strips (aka Black Dog--aka faggotyliar)
You might want to check on Riva and Crisp Crap again.
Yes they did throw some money into those 2 companies but --- well the economy seems to be telling a different story than you are.
Didn't they just lay off the Crisp Crap folks in Kings Mountain and move every thing back to Florida?
PRIVATE FINANCING?
Well that story is pretty twisted--kind of hard to get a clear picture of that.
Seems there might be a little more info on the way, and it should be interesting if it ever gets out.
I don't know if it will or not--but who knows?

As for the METHODICAL EXECUTION of the plan?
I guess you haven't been following that plan very well have you.
Hell--even Indian cant keep track of all the changes they've made in the last 4 years.
Thats some black comedy there folks-old strips is an entertainer if nothing else.

Ahh well--we'll see.
Hey--I got an idea.
I'll have one parked in my garage come Sunday morning.
Any one in the Kansas City area care to come by and take a look?
If so--PM me and I'll send you my info.
Who knows--If you appear safe--sane--and sober you might even get a chance to ride an ICONIC INDIAN.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 1/15/2009 9:59:01 PM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 1/16/2009 6:54 PM
NoMoreChickenStrips said...
martinjmpr said...


I know it's not cool to revel in the misery of another, but if us dummies on MCUSA saw this train wreck coming years ago, why didn't the people with the bucks? Are they that stupid?



You know what is pretty funny? The badmouthing that goes on here. Are they that stupid? Yeah I guess they were stupid enough:

<UL>
* to turn around Riva Boats

* to turn around Chris Craft

* to buy Indian IP, come up with their own private financing and plan

* to begin the methodical execution of that plan

* to not let Cheef's boss annoy them with their sky is falling no merit lawsuits

* to not listen to the "dummies on MCUSA" as you put it (unfortunate words - I have more respect for most of the folk here)

* to not do it any way but theirs and be beholden to no one but themselves - and still be going

* to start a "New" Indian motorcycle when others taunted them and said "they ain't don' nuthin'"

* to make deals and create a motorcycle factory despite the lies of the group said "there is no factory"

* to accumulate undisclosed suppliers - not open for public debate - despite some that claim they know - they don't have any

* to continue to build a business - including a dealer network and NOT listen to all the "geniuses" that can do it better
</UL>
They are in NC building bikes and taking orders for new ones. They are executing their plan and have done a lot that will be known - soon enough. Yeah pretty stupid...ROFLMAO Critics be damned - best of luck Indian.


Why yes Strips.....they ARE stupid! and they will be a failure.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/19/2009 9:44 PM
Yep I have to agree with basshole on this one.
I have a 2009 short fendered Kings Mountain Road Master Chief setting in my garage right now.
Looks like it could be there for the next few months.
I've got about 200 miles on it--I HATE breaking in motorcycles!!!

Got to tell you though--I LIKE THE HELL OUT OF THIS THING!!!
It's a DAMN nice $20 to $25k motorcycle TOPS!!
The price out the door on the thing was $38k.
It is NOT a $38k motorcycle.
Top of the line KM Chiefs are marked at over $48k--and the only difference in the models seems to be the way they are dressed out.
If Indian could get them priced where they belong--well--the HD Indian wars might be on again.
Thing is--there is NO WAY they're going to drop the price where it has to be for them to even make a run at success.
That's pretty damn sad!

Posted By : jclax01 - 1/20/2009 3:48 AM
I do not think that the new indian motorcycle company intended to sell to the mainstream public. Its priced too high. I think they targeted a niche market of the wealthy motorcycle owner. Dumb, but I think thats what thier plans are. The average guy can get a 15 to 20k motorcycle. a 48k motorcycle is a real big deal for the average guy.


Ride Hard or Stay home
 
1994 Kaw Vulcan 88
2007 Piago (my wifes punk ass 50cc scooter) 
2004 Lexus GS450
2002 Ford Explorer
1996 Cadi sedan deville
2006 sea ray 205 sp


Posted By : basshole - 1/20/2009 11:31 AM
jclax01 said...
I do not think that the new indian motorcycle company intended to sell to the mainstream public. Its priced too high. I think they targeted a niche market of the wealthy motorcycle owner. Dumb, but I think thats what thier plans are. The average guy can get a 15 to 20k motorcycle. a 48k motorcycle is a real big deal for the average guy.


Let me put it to you this way, how many high end, low volume, start up business do you think will succeed in this economy?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 1/20/2009 11:38 AM
basshole said...
jclax01 said...
I do not think that the new indian motorcycle company intended to sell to the mainstream public. Its priced too high. I think they targeted a niche market of the wealthy motorcycle owner. Dumb, but I think thats what thier plans are. The average guy can get a 15 to 20k motorcycle. a 48k motorcycle is a real big deal for the average guy.


Let me put it to you this way, how many high end, low volume, start up business do you think will succeed in this economy?

Not only that, but a high-end, low volume start up business that's making (1) a luxury product (2) that is functionally indistinguishable from its competition (3) which sells essentially the same product for less than half the price, (4) which has a major presence in every part of the US and (5) which has an unbroken 100+ year history. 
 
Indian is trying to fish in a pretty small pond here.  It's hard to imagine how the number of people who can spend $35k on a motorcycle can sustain a business like Indian.  And if they end up selling 50 or 60 bikes a year, can it really be said that Indian has "returned?"  More like Indian has "returned" as a boutique builder of low-volume Harley clones that happen to have an historic name but nothing else to distinguish them from the other boutique Harley clone chopper makers out there. 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 1/20/2009 3:06 PM
martinjmpr said...
basshole said...



jclax01 said...

I do not think that the new indian motorcycle company intended to sell to the mainstream public. Its priced too high. I think they targeted a niche market of the wealthy motorcycle owner. Dumb, but I think thats what thier plans are. The average guy can get a 15 to 20k motorcycle. a 48k motorcycle is a real big deal for the average guy.


Let me put it to you this way, how many high end, low volume, start up business do you think will succeed in this economy?

Not only that, but a high-end, low volume start up business that's making (1) a luxury product (2) that is functionally indistinguishable from its competition (3) which sells essentially the same product for less than half the price, (4) which has a major presence in every part of the US and (5) which has an unbroken 100+ year history.


Indian is trying to fish in a pretty small pond here. It's hard to imagine how the number of people who can spend $35k on a motorcycle can sustain a business like Indian. And if they end up selling 50 or 60 bikes a year, can it really be said that Indian has "returned?" More like Indian has "returned" as a boutique builder of low-volume Harley clones that happen to have an historic name but nothing else to distinguish them from the other boutique Harley clone chopper makers out there.

Exactly!!! God help em if their investors ever pull the $$$$$ or start demanding a return on their investment.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : homer14 - 1/23/2009 7:20 AM

KC...so have any minds been changed?


Posted By : KC Cheef - 1/23/2009 4:34 PM
Hey homer.
Don't know that any minds have been changed but the visit to Kings Mountain has changed perspectives and attitudes.
Beautiful bikes and dedicated people.
Still--in my opinion too high a price.
I can't see them selling many but I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
But?
I'm wishing them luck and hoping they make it.
Me?
I'm going into the motorcycle riding mode--still got one in my garage to be checking out.
Happy Trails
KC

Posted By : KC Cheef - 3/31/2009 3:08 PM
Damn!!
Where did chickenstrips go?
I've got 2000 miles on this new Chief, and I'd sure like to debate a few FACTS with him and I'd be interested in his answers.
Yeah-yeah--I know I've had it for 3 months and that isn't all that many miles.
But?
I do have an excuse for that, and old strips is kind of wise to avoid hearing them.
Hey strips.
Don't be all scared--pop in and say hey.
I got some interesting news for ya.

Posted By : basshole - 4/1/2009 11:13 AM
Well tell us what you found out Cheef?? Are things not all they're cracked up to be in KM????


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/1/2009 11:28 AM
Bike made 385 miles before it had some issues and had to go back to the mountain.
I can copy and post the adventures I've had on him that I've been recording on another site.
Been --well--interesting, and I'd kind of like to get old chickenstrips reaction to it all.

Oh--and just cause I'm a nice guy and want to be sure old strips doesn't work himself into a corner?
Everything I've reported on so far--and been ridiculed and accused of imagining or making up or worse by the folks on strips regular internet boards?
Well--it's all been confirmed by the factory.

Posted By : basshole - 4/1/2009 8:57 PM
KC Cheef said...
Bike made 385 miles before it had some issues and had to go back to the mountain.
I can copy and post the adventures I've had on him that I've been recording on another site.
Been --well--interesting, and I'd kind of like to get old chickenstrips reaction to it all.

Oh--and just cause I'm a nice guy and want to be sure old strips doesn't work himself into a corner?
Everything I've reported on so far--and been ridiculed and accused of imagining or making up or worse by the folks on strips regular internet boards?
Well--it's all been confirmed by the factory.

So basically it's a $38,000.00 lawn ornament? :p


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/2/2009 5:54 AM
Well?
To be fair to it?
It did make an Iron Butt ride last weekend.
Made the 1k in 24 and missed the 1.5k in 36 by 30 minutes.
I had to stop at a dealership and have the shock adjusted about 1100 miles into the ride.
Had to ride 1100 miles to find the nearest dealership!!!!

I rode it from Kings Mountain, NC to Kansas City.
Interesting story as to how it got back to Kings Mountain.

I'll just wait for old strips to get on and see if he'd like some HARD DATA on my experience with this machine so far.

I'll say for now--that fro a motorcycle that has 2000 miles on its clock it's led a hell of a life so far.

Very nteresting data from that ride.

I found out that my Gilroy (that seems to get the s**t put on it by the KM folks) actually makes better MPG than this 09.

09-105 CI Fuel injected 6 speed BRAND ASS NEEW looks to get around 32 average.
03 Gilroy Mikuni 45-5 speed--50k on it----35-37 average.

Hey if you guys want to see my assessment f the 09 so far I can copy and paste from another forum I've been putting it on and provide you with some fine facts and entertainment.


WHERE THE HELL IS CHICKEN STRIPS!!???
:p

Posted By : basshole - 4/2/2009 11:28 AM
KC Cheef said...
Well?
To be fair to it?
It did make an Iron Butt ride last weekend.
Made the 1k in 24 and missed the 1.5k in 36 by 30 minutes.
I had to stop at a dealership and have the shock adjusted about 1100 miles into the ride.
Had to ride 1100 miles to find the nearest dealership!!!!

I rode it from Kings Mountain, NC to Kansas City.
Interesting story as to how it got back to Kings Mountain.

I'll just wait for old strips to get on and see if he'd like some HARD DATA on my experience with this machine so far.

I'll say for now--that fro a motorcycle that has 2000 miles on its clock it's led a hell of a life so far.

Very nteresting data from that ride.

I found out that my Gilroy (that seems to get the s**t put on it by the KM folks) actually makes better MPG than this 09.

09-105 CI Fuel injected 6 speed BRAND ASS NEEW looks to get around 32 average.
03 Gilroy Mikuni 45-5 speed--50k on it----35-37 average.

Hey if you guys want to see my assessment f the 09 so far I can copy and paste from another forum I've been putting it on and provide you with some fine facts and entertainment.


WHERE THE HELL IS CHICKEN STRIPS!!???
:p

Do it!! I wanna see. And I'd love to know the other forum so I can go over and lurk! burger


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/2/2009 12:31 PM
Well since you insist.
And I'd really like to get some feed back from Chickenstrips.
He is the seeming expert on the Stellican bikes.
I just ride them around and let folks know how things are going.

The story begins.

Brought the bike home on a trailer on January 18th.
Took it for a 10 mile ride out to the park and pulled the dipstick on it.

Here's what I found looking back at me.






Kind of freaked me out.
Called the factory.
Sent them the pics and was assured foaming in the oil bag was normal with synthetic--don't worry about it.
OOOOOKKKKAAAAY--what the hell do I know.
It looks like a LOT of foam to me -- but the factory rep who looked at the pics just pooh-poohd and said trust me -- it's normal.
I'm telling him it's enough foam that the oil bag is pressurized when I pull the dip stick that it blows oil bubbles out onto the exhaust.
IT IS NORMAL for synthetic--RIDE IT!!
OKAY!!!
Damn this guy is insistant.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 4/2/2009 7:35:06 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/2/2009 12:37 PM
So?
I go on for an enjoyable 55 MPH ride.
Have to do 500 miles at 55 or below--not to exceed 2500 RPMS during this part of the break in.
Ride about 50 miles--take it home and park it in the garage.
I spend 2 or 3 hours taking various parts off the bike to see if Stellicans claim of "Virtually nothing interchanges between the Gilroy Indian and the Stellican Indian."

Pretty much everything I look at on the new bike is a twin to what's on my 03.
Strange--but it seems to bolt right off one bike and bolt right onto the other.
Oil bag looks the same.
Swing arm is different looking--but I've seen the 04 Gilroys, and it is an 04 Gilroy swing arm.
Seat fits.
Cowling covers fit.
Floor boards fit.
There are a few differences but way more similarities

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 4/2/2009 7:43:58 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/2/2009 12:46 PM
Strips where you at bud?
I'm looking for honest feed back.

And where is Homer?
I'm sincerely hoping Homer will give us some input.
Me and Homer have always got along together, and I would like to hear his reaction to this continuing 09 Indian Saga.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 4/2/2009 7:49:17 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/2/2009 12:53 PM
Walk out to the garage next morning and?
What's that I'm smelling?
GAS?
Not strong--but for sure there.
Look around and can't spot anything -- Oh Well.
DAMN while I'm looking around I look under the bike and there's an oil spot.
Looks to be coming from the dry sump plug.
Tighten it up--nope it's tight.
No snail trail of oil on the bottom of the cases to track the leak down.
Hmmmnnn.
Oh well.

Posted By : Desmolicious - 4/2/2009 4:42 PM
I have synthetic oil in my Harley, my Ducati and my cars. And I've never had any kind of foaming. Weird.


Børk! Børk! Børk!


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/2/2009 8:00 PM
I've never run synthetic so I decline to comment.
I will say however that another owner of an 09 reports not a bubble one in his oil tank.
HMMNN--if the factory tells me foamed oil is normal--and it's telling the other rider no foam in his oil is normal?
What the hell is really normal.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/2/2009 8:02 PM
Okay--the bike is up to a couple hundred miles now.
I decide to take it out on the hiway and finish that damn 500 miles at 55.
To be continued.

Posted By : lawrence1 - 4/3/2009 5:37 AM
Foaming is just moisture right? Some foaming is normal but yea that is more than I've ever seen. You should have already changed the oil already IMO, repated oil changes should flush it out. Has it been humid where your at?


Pigs of Life MC


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/3/2009 5:47 AM
Did you say change the oil?
Foaming is just moisture--well we'll make some assessments as the experience continues--me I'm no mechanic so I refused to guess at all this while it was happening.
Hey--if you can't beleive the factory who you gonna believe?
I was assured by the factory rep I spoke to that I should continue on to the 500 mile service then change it.
Assured it was normal and that I worried too much about the little things.
OKAY--on with the first 500 miles.

It would be much easier to copy and past the experience from a post I made about it on another board.
I'm going to wait a day or two and let chickenstrips comment on the chain of events thus far.
He had PLENTY to say about what was happening to this motorcycle on various other forums, and interestingly enough he and his friends were proven by the factory to be totally wrong--even though they claimed to be providing info FROM the factory.

Oh what a tangled web we weave.
Right Chickenstrips?

Posted By : Desmolicious - 4/3/2009 9:30 AM
lawrence1 said...
Foaming is just moisture right? Some foaming is normal but yea that is more than I've ever seen. You should have already changed the oil already IMO, repated oil changes should flush it out. Has it been humid where your at?

Once the motor gets up to temp, any moisture will be boiled off.
Maybe some additive was put in the oil and/or it's some of the motor assembly lube (eg moly) that is mixing in with the oil?  Way to tell is to see what happens after the oil and filter change.


Børk! Børk! Børk!


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/3/2009 8:43 PM
Hey Desmo.
Interesting you make the query about an oil additive?
The rest of that story comes a little later down the road.
Like when we did the 500 mile service.
Caught a sample at the 500 mile oil change to send to the Cat lab for analysis.
Kind of freaked me out when I took a look at the bottom of the sample bottle.
1/8 inch of copper colored particles had settled out in it overnight.
Cat lab analyzed it as Never Seize.
I asked Indian about it--nope--no Never seize used in assembly.
Told them Cat lab had analyzed it - and yep they told me that was normal as it was used sparingly in assembly.
Kind of strange that it was the same guy that told me yes that had just told me no 30 seconds ago.

Any one ever had an analysis done by the local Cat Dealer?
$12 bucks and that includes the sample kit--shipping to the lab from your mail box--and a full analysis.
Not a bad deal.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/3/2009 8:44 PM
Uhh--where is old chickenstrips when you need an authority on all things Indian?

Posted By : Desmolicious - 4/4/2009 11:43 AM
Hmm, stuff like Never Seize mixed in the oil could definitely cause the foaming. But after an oil change or two it should be flushed out.
Really bogus that the customer service dood just keep trying to give you crap info, just so you would go away. You would think that a new company would go out of its way to help and so build some good word o mouth reputation...


Børk! Børk! Børk!


Posted By : lawrence1 - 4/4/2009 9:33 PM
It doesn't all burn off desmo, some foam collects up around the fill cap and such. Cars do the same thing. It looks like white lithium grease to me.

Whatever he's got, is way to much foam for me though, I'd be pizzed, thats embarassing. What the hell is in there? $30 grand???

A buddy just bought an FZ6 and we had this discussion about oil changes. I suggested he do an oil change at 100 miles but he waited till 500 cause the mechanic at the dealership told him any metal debris from breakin was used as polishing material. I scoffed and asked him if he was polishing his clutch pads. So this is what the dealers are telling them now.


Pigs of Life MC


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/4/2009 10:30 PM
lawrence1 my good man.
The owner of the bike I'm riding has $38k plus in that motorcycle.
It is only a starter bike price wise in the new world of Indian-- but what the hell--it's ICONIC.

The foaming oil?
Nope--that isn't foam just collecting in the fill tube.
That's enough foam that I was standing off to the side when I'd pull the plug because the oil bag was pressurized enough it would blow oil out on you.
All will be explained when we do the rest of the story.
Gonna wait a few more days to see if strips shows up.

If not we'll go ahead and post what I've found on this bike so far.
And the treatment I received from the Indian dealer I sent it to for the 500 mile service.
INTERESTING story.

Posted By : Desmolicious - 4/4/2009 11:54 PM
"Harro? Dis eeez Meester Streeeps answering service. Hee not in now. Hee gone long time. Eeeef you neeed to post Indian story , pleeeeze post now as he not back for long time"


Børk! Børk! Børk!


Posted By : Desmolicious - 4/4/2009 11:55 PM
Weird, huh? KC, guess you should just post up and let us know what's goin' on....


Børk! Børk! Børk!


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/5/2009 12:02 PM
OKAY desmo.
Looks like old chickenstrips is avoiding us so I'll carry oon.
Here is the post I made on the 500 mile break in experience I had on this Indian.

Now--keep in mind.
I already reported foamed oil.
I've already reported an oil spot under the bike every time I ride it and park it.
I've already had oil light issues.

So--here's the continuation I've posted on another board and just copied my post and brought it on over.

It get's WAY MO BETTER as the story progresses.
But here's the beginning.


Started out at 10 this morning.
BEAUTIFUL day in Kansas City.
55 degrees at 10 in the morning in February?
HELL YEAH time for a ride!!!

Saddle up and head over to Avondale, Missouri to visit Bears Hiway Classics.
I been talking to Indian to have Bear be able to do the service work on Johnny Boys bike.
Seems a little extreme to have to ride 200 miles plus one way for service work, and so far Indian seems to be good with the idea of Bear doing the service.
40 mile ride, and everything is cool as hell.
I really like this motorcycle and can't wait to get the break in miles on it to see what it is going to be like in the real world.

Stop in and let Bear and the boys take a look and they are really liking what they see.
Travis the mechanic takes it out for a 15 minute ride--comes back and compliments it.
Likes the bike EXCEPT for the exhaust sound.
He hops off and I ask him to pull the dipstick and take a look in the oil bag.
He pops it and it blows a little oil out at him.
Not much--but enough so you notice.
He tells me the foam in the bag is a little more than he's used to seeing with synthetic but doesn't seem too concerned.

Bear hops on and takes it out.
Brings it back and same deal.
He REALLY likes the way it handles.
He agrees with me--way different than the Gilroy bikes.
WAAAYYY different and way more maneuverable that what we're used to.
I still need to figure that out and I'll be posting a little more info I got from the factory about that tomorrow.

Any way--off to see if I can get some miles in while the weather is so damn nice.

Get about 100 miles down I-70 headed towards Columbia, Missouri.
55 MPH SUCKS!!!!

Make it ALMOST to Columbia and WHAT THE f**k!!!
Oil pressure light flickers at me.
On and Off--kind of long enough to KNOW for sure it's doing it but not long enough to convince myself that it is REALLY doing it.
I'm kind of like in denial.

Pull off and gas up.
Let the bike sit for 10 minutes and pull the dipstick just to be SURE.
I know it is going to be OK because Bear and the boys were just looking in the oil bag 100 miles ago.


Get back on the Chief and head back toward Kansas City.
Now it's almost 70 degrees outside, BEAUTIFUL riding weather.


Get about 20 miles down the road and --yep--oil light comes on--and it ain't flickering.
Lights up and stays lit up.

Well?
What are you gonna do?
I-70 in Missouri has about a 2 foot wide break down lane and those f**king semis don't especially worry about getting over into the other lane when they're ripping by you.
BUT!!
You're riding another mans BRAND NEW $38,000 motorcycle.
I pull that f**ker over and squeeze as far onto the side as I can get--and that ain't far enough as far as I'm concerned.

Whip out the trusty cell phone and call Little Debbie to get a number for the Paducah dealership.
Get hold of Mason who listens to my tale and immediately transfers me to his mechanic.
Mechanic comes on the line and first words out of his mouth are?
Does it have oil in it?
I know--that's going to be the first thing a mechanic asks--but the first thing that pops into my head is?
WHAT THE f**k??
This motorcycle has 375 miles on it--and if it doesn't have oil in it it ain't my fault!!!

But I just let that impulse float on by.
Yep--oil in it.
He asks me to take a look under the oil pump and check to be sure the pressure sending unit is tight and not oil covered.
Yep it's tight.
Nope no oil on it.
Next suggestion from the mechanic is?
Let me make a phone call and get back to you.(Take note of these instructions I'm gonna comment later.)
I tell him I HAVE to get this motorcycle off the highway before it ends up as scrap.
He kind of hems and haws and won't really commit to me riding it with the light on.
Next exit 10 miles.
I tell him I HAVE to be getting it off the road and he agrees--give it a shot.
I get back on the bike--start it up and no oil light.
Been sitting for about 15 minutes and everything is good again.
Ride it towards the next exit--get ALMOST to the Golden Arches of McDonalds--and here comes that f**king oil light again.

Get it parked and call Little Debbie again.
She's tried calling Mark Moses Dealership to see if we can get some advice from them.
SOMEONE answers and first question he asks is?
Does it have oil in it?
Yepp it has oil in it is what Little Debbie tells him.
His reply is?
Well I really can't tell you what the problem might be--better not ride it.
OOOOOKKKKKAAAAYYY!!!!!

I give Indian KM a call.
Get the answering machine that tells me to dial my parties extension number if I know it.
Well I don't know it.
Answering machine tells me to press "STAR" for the directory.
I press "Star" and the answering machine tells me to dial the extension number of the party I'm trying to dail if I know it.
Well--here we go again--I DON'T know it so it tells me to press "Star" for the directory.
Well--I ain't falling for this one again so I hang up.

And call Little Debbie again.
She gives me the number Chris Bernauer has sent me in an email.

And I call it and get his answering machine.
So?
I leave a message.

And walk into McDonalds and eat a Big Mac.
I find a lot of solace in a Big Mac and I'm having a MAC ATTACK right about now.
I eat that Big Mac while looking out the window at a $38k Indian Motorcycle with 380 miles on it that wants to show off its oil light!!!!

Just as I finish up Chris Bernauer calls me.
I explain the situation to him and remind him that the foamed up oil in the bag has ALWAYS concerned the hell out of me--especially knowing the history of the Gilroy bikes.
He assures me once again that the foam is NORMAL.
I kind of think I'm beginning to bug the s**t out of these guys with the foaming oil thing---and they have assured me time and again not to worry--it's normal.
Okay--on to the problem--Chris tells me he feels it will be OK to ride the bike with the light on.
He tells me he encountered the same problem recently on a bike he had out.
He wants me to listen carefully and if it starts making ANY kind of strange noise to pull it over ASAP.
( I'm kind of a little hard of hearing--but what the hell--here we go.)
I express a concern that I have kind of a problem with riding an INDIAN MOTORCYCLE that has the oil light lit up--kind of an ingrained fear to an Indian Rider.
He assures me he will back up the ride to the point if there is a problem he will replace the motorcycle with a new one.
GOOD DAMN DEAL is what I'm thinking.
One thing I"M gonna say is?
No damn way to beat a warranty like that.

SO?
Away I go.

Now I'm thinking this is a hell of a deal.
70 miles from home.
It's dark.
I'm on a $38k Indian with an oil light coming on.
I been assured it isn't a problem and to go ahead and ride it.

Here we go.
30 miles down the road?
Oil light lights up and it isn't messing around.
Lights up and stays lit.
I'm listening for any kind of wierd noises and remembering I probably can't hear them even if they do show up.
Ride about a mile and I just can't do it.
Pull over into a rest area and let it sit for 20 minutes.

Hop back on.
Start it up.
No oil light.
Ride 30 miles or so?
Get 5 miles from the house?
Oil light comes on and I think--f**k it--I'm going for it.

And can't do it again.
Pull over --let it sit for 20 minutes.
Crank it up.
No oil light.
Ride it on home.


It's sitting in the garage right now right alongside Johnny Boys Vintage Chief.

I'm having a REALLY hard time posting this one.
I LIKE the hell out of that ride.
NICE MOTORCYCLE.
Handles awesome.
Feels good out on the highway but I still prefer my Gilory CHEEF.
I've met the folks that build them and sell them and they treated me REALLY WELL.
And I know there's gonna be some folks calling bulls**t on what happened to it today.

But?
I keep wondering what the hell I'd be doing if I owned the thing.
I just don't know if I could be handling what ever is going on as calmly as I'm handling it right now if it was mine.
THAT'S A DAMN EXPENSIVE MACHINE SITTING THERE.
With 475 miles on it.
And the oil light is coming on.
And I'm suspecting it is having some kind of problems.

MAYBE?
It's some kind of short?
Maybe it's some kind of glitch in the computer?


Now for the part I outlined in red and asked you to remember for later?
Well--it's been 6 hours and I'm till waiting for the Paducah mechanic to call me back.




Posted By : GeoffG - 4/5/2009 9:19 PM
lawrence1 said...
It doesn't all burn off desmo, some foam collects up around the fill cap and such. Cars do the same thing. It looks like white lithium grease to me.

Lawrence, that "white lithium grease" stuff you see sometimes on the inside of the oil filler cap is bad news--it has nothing to do with foaming oil, but everything to do with water in the oil. It can...sometimes, on some cars (with long oil filler tubes, like a Subaru I used to own)...be caused by normal condensation--but most times, it's evidence of a blown head gasket.

Cheef, I'm gonna suggest that the foaming you're seeing is NOT normal. I know nothing about Indians, original, Gilroy, or current...but I can't imagine an engine running on oil like that. At a guess, I'd say the oil light is coming on because the oil pump is trying to pump froth, not fluid, which it can't do; I sure wouldn't wanna ride it like that.

I'd certainly be checking for a blockage in the line providing oil to the pump. If the pump inlet is blocked, the pump will simply whip up any oil in it into a froth, and push that into the engine. Some years ago, a friend of mine had a John Deere loader that would run for a while, then die...if he let it sit for a while, it would start up again, but die again a bit later. Several mechanics were stumped...no-one could find anything wrong...until someone looked into the fuel tank. A flake of something--rust. paint, whatever--had setted over the fuel tank outlet, and acted as a sort of hinged flap. It would allow fuel to flow for a while, but eventually it would be sucked down to block the outlet, and the engine would die. Once the fuel pump stopped, fuel would leak past the flap until the suction in the line was gone, then it would open up again, like a toilet bowl valve...

I can certainly imagine something along these lines happening in your bike--especially as it's new, and who knows what might have gotten into the oil tank during manufacture.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/5/2009 10:15 PM
Hey GeoffG.
Now you're getting close.
That's exactly what I was thinking when the oil light was blinking.
Even after being assured by the factory rep that it wasn't a problem and go ahead and ride the bike I couldn't make myself do it.

Your guess on the pump inlet is REALLY damn close to what was eventually diagnosed as the problem.
A gerotor oil pump can't pump foam, and an oil sensor light can't sense it so it's going to do its job and light up to tell you to shut the damn motorcycle off.


That's a story for tomorrow.
And an interesting story indeed.
Lies--deceit-shenanigans.

Kind of sad in one way and kind of telling in another.

Posted By : basshole - 4/6/2009 11:07 AM
I wonder how many of the other 14 bikes they made have the same problem as you did cheef?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : lawrence1 - 4/7/2009 6:05 AM
Water in the oil is definately bad news Geoff but no blown head gasket. You ever walk out in your otherwise dry garage and everything metal is just dripping in water? Some of us are subjected to those types of atmospheric conditions more than others.

But let's not get off topic and the subject, is this thing a POS or not?


Pigs of Life MC


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/7/2009 7:23 AM
Hey basshole.
How many have the same problem as mine?
Good question.
But to fully understand the answer?
You'll have to hear --The Rest of the Story.

Posted By : GeoffG - 4/7/2009 8:16 AM
lawrence1 said...
Water in the oil is definately bad news Geoff but no blown head gasket. You ever walk out in your otherwise dry garage and everything metal is just dripping in water? Some of us are subjected to those types of atmospheric conditions more than others.

But let's not get off topic and the subject, is this thing a POS or not?

Sorry, no offense. You posted earlier that "Foaming is just moisture, right?" Not necessarily...foaming is caused by air and oil being mechanically agitated. Moisture may make the oil more susceptible...but enough moisture in the oil to create a lasting emulsion--that thick, white goo under the oil filler cap--is a real problem, and is almost always the first symptom of a blown head gasket, in my experience. (I doubt that's a problem in Cheef's bike, though, as it's air-cooled, ain't it?)

But you're right, that's all beside the point. I've simply been reading this thread now and then because I find it interesting that Stellican is trying to resuscitate Indian Motorcycles...a task which would seem doomed to failure.

As for whether the bike is a POS, that's hard to say...something like this oil problem could (and IMO likely is) caused by some external factor, like something that fell into the oil tank during manufacture, rather than an engineering error or anything...not too unexpected, actually, on a new vehicle from a new facility...

Posted By : martinjmpr - 4/7/2009 11:02 AM
lawrence1 said...
Water in the oil is definately bad news Geoff but no blown head gasket. You ever walk out in your otherwise dry garage and everything metal is just dripping in water? Some of us are subjected to those types of atmospheric conditions more than others.

But let's not get off topic and the subject, is this thing a POS or not?

How could a "blown head gasket" put moisture in the engine of an air-cooled bike?  confused


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : GeoffG - 4/7/2009 5:32 PM
Martin, it's the context. Lawrence's original post read: "It doesn't all burn off desmo, some foam collects up around the fill cap and such. Cars do the same thing. It looks like white lithium grease to me." I was reacting to his comment about cars forming something that "looks like white lithium grease" under the filler cap--which, in my personal experience, is almost always related to coolant getting into the oil, usually from a head gasket leak. This has really no relevance to the thread...just commenting on what I saw as an erroneous statement about what was causing the oil to foam in Cheef's bike. You're right, it's not gonna be caused by a head gasket leak on an air cooled bike. I don't think the oil foaming in Cheef's bike is caused by moisture at all, as I really doubt it's caused by the quality of the oil--there has to be something mechanically wrong, causing the oil pump to be starved for oil (this would account for both the excessive foaming and the intermittent oil pressure light).

Now, Cheef mentioned the oil he removed had "copper coloured particles" in it, which an oil analysis identified as "Never Seize." Now, those sample bottles are usually pretty small, and 1/8" is a fair bit of particulate to have in engine oil...I'll bet they're eventually gonna find that there is a blockage somewhere in the oil pump feed line, caused by a sludge of those particles...or something like that...

BTW, I'm assuming the Indian has separate engine and transmission oils, right? Especially as the engine would seem to be a dry sump.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/7/2009 6:38 PM
Well it's time for another installment.
Tell you the truth I took the bike out again today and I'm a little more disappointed right now.

Here's what happened after I got it home with the oil light problem.
I'll make it short and sweet because from my experience today I'm kind of beginning to think it would take too damn much typing to get the whole story out there.

Okay.
In a nut shell.
The bike went to the nearest Indian dealer to Kansas City to be diagnosed and have its 500 mile service done.
It went to Omaha, Nebraska.
The Omaha dealership came to Kansas City--picked the bike up and hauled it to Omaha.
240 miles or so.
I work away from home and figured that would be good.
Have it fixed and back to the house to ride it 3 weeks later.
Make a long story short.
After it was there for 2 and a half weeks I called and was told it wasn't done yet.
I was also assured the bike would be setting in my garage when I arrived home.
COOL--that's a long time to do a 500 mile service but I had told them no rush because of my work schedule.

Brings us up to the weekend before I'm due to come home.
I call the dealership on a Saturday afternoon and I'm assured by the salesman that the bike is done--waiting to be loaded onto a trailer and sent back to my house.
All they are waiting on is for Indian to contact me to ask me a few questions.
Okay--no problem.
So I call the owner of the bike and he informs me he's just spoken to Kings Mountain and the bike is back there in North Carolina..

Wait a damn minute--5 minutes ago the Omaha dealer is telling me the bike is in Omaha waiting to come back to my house.
And now I'm being told the bike is in KM -- has been for 2 days.
Well--I can be a little harsh--and when I called the dealership in Omaha back--I got a little harsh.
I'm not known for being too PC, and I basically called a liar a liar
ANYWAY--on with the story.
To make it short and sweet?
Oil pump was found to be out of tolerance, on the intake side. (Can you say foam generator)?
Engine cases were found to be porous.
Cases on a $38k motorcycle with 480 miles on it were changed out.
Oil pump was changed out.
I've been assured by the factory that these are isolated problems but I'm wondering how you can say that unless EVERY engine on EVERY SHOWROOM FLOOR has been dye tested for porosity, and EVERY OIL PUMP on EVERY bike has been pulled and physically inspected.
Maybe a new fangled computer program that extrapolates the data and can assure you of that?

Anyway--enough for tonight, and I need to set here and figure out how to take care of todays problems.

Posted By : basshole - 4/7/2009 9:04 PM
Well with all that "product" in the pipeline I can see how they can get confused tracking one bike. eyes smhair Somehow I get the feeling the other 13 bikes they've produced have the same problem as well. So how much do you think Indian has spent on this bike so far for it's 500 mile service??? Can you spell INSOLVENT?
I knew you could.... R I P Indian.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/26/2009 6:59 AM
Well--I'm back.
3800 miles on the Stellican bike now.
List of issues is getting long enough that I don't care to post them all.

Latest one I had yesterday kind of drives it all home though.
I had the clasps on a $1600 set of Stellican Saddle bags pull out on the owner while he was riding the bike in front of me.
Blew the contents of the bags all over I-70 in Missouri.

Got home and found one of the clasps still hooked into the strap.
Here you go folks--this is a clasp on a $1600 set of saddle bags on a $38k motorcycle.

Returning them to the factory tomorrow and have told them due to safety concerns we will not accept the same bags as a replacement.

Among other things I ran smack dab over a t shirt that had been sucked out.

Take a look and you'll see that besides being some cheap a-- s--t the tabs are bent over wrong.

I'm getting just a little irate over this whole experience.

And I'm kind of wondering where Powerstroke--chickenstrips and a bunch of the others are now days.
I'd sure like to hear the excuses they'd come up with.

For your astonishment and viewing pleasure.



Posted By : Richard47 - 4/26/2009 12:17 PM
$1,600 for a set of saddle bags? Hot poop! I don't care to pay much more than that for a complete bike.lol


Toilet Brush Dog Owner


Posted By : EdbearNZ - 4/26/2009 12:35 PM
You know, I kinda like my C50T...


”I'm afraid to send my kids to the movies any more. Ever since they let Clark Gable get by with saying DAMN in GONE WITH THE WIND, it seems every new movie has either HELL or DAMN in it.”


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/27/2009 5:12 AM
Richard47 said...
$1,600 for a set of saddle bags? Hot poop! I don't care to pay much more than that for a complete bike. lol


Those are kind of the beginner bags the price goes up from there.
Check out Indian Motorcycles website accessory page.
$2200 seats-$800 Tail lights-$the floor board fringe is $200 for a 6 inch strip of leather.
They ARE iconic though--and it is a HERITAGE BRAND.

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 4/27/2009 5:53 AM
If they want the high dollar machine name like the Harley, believe they are well in the lead. Then some artist comes along stripes it down to a basic, bare minimum bike that barely works, toss on a fancy paint job, some skull stuff, and charge 50K. They have to make sure it isn't comfy and destroy all handling. Usually a big guy with an attitude, covered in tats, but the end product is pretty sissy. A chopped and custom Indian could easily fetch $75k. Wouldn't be an Indian anymore or a motorcycle in the usable sense. I miss my 47 Chief. Easy to work on, simple and 55 mpg.


Ride like you want to make it home

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 4/28/2009 2:01:00 AM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 4/28/2009 11:23 AM
KC Cheef said...
Well--I'm back.
3800 miles on the Stellican bike now.
List of issues is getting long enough that I don't care to post them all.

Latest one I had yesterday kind of drives it all home though.
I had the clasps on a $1600 set of Stellican Saddle bags pull out on the owner while he was riding the bike in front of me.
Blew the contents of the bags all over I-70 in Missouri.

Got home and found one of the clasps still hooked into the strap.
Here you go folks--this is a clasp on a $1600 set of saddle bags on a $38k motorcycle.

Returning them to the factory tomorrow and have told them due to safety concerns we will not accept the same bags as a replacement.

Among other things I ran smack dab over a t shirt that had been sucked out.

Take a look and you'll see that besides being some cheap a-- s--t the tabs are bent over wrong.

I'm getting just a little irate over this whole experience.

And I'm kind of wondering where Powerstroke--chickenstrips and a bunch of the others are now days.
I'd sure like to hear the excuses they'd come up with.

For your astonishment and viewing pleasure.



Looks like the "New Indian" is quickly giving US manufacturing a bad name. I knew they would start cutting corners somewhere rather quickly to show investors that there is alot of profit to be had. Of course they hope those investors don't want to look at the cost of warranty repairs and other QC related comments.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : norton - 4/28/2009 1:48 PM
480 miles before a total rebuild :)
Porous cases,
sloppy oil pump,
Crappy hardware,
American made.... that sound about right!

Really, what did you expect for $38,000. Quality???

KC Cheef: just let us know when they announce that they are shutting their doors, (we all know it's coming - it's only a matter of time)


 
Well Enuff said...
Let me sum this up: There are only 2 kinds of riders; those that own a Valkyrie and those that wish they did.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 4/28/2009 2:15 PM
As for American Made?
I'm gonna guess not.
Those saddle bags are cheap beyond words.
the clasp in the picture managed to hang onto the strap.
The other clasp actually broke free from its tabs--I found one hanging in the side of the bag.
Pretty embarassing.
The owner of the bike made his first ride on it when that happened.
We were in St' Louis,Mo and got invited to a bike night/bike show.
Wouldn't have made a very good impression with duct taped saddle bags.

Confusing how Indian Prices things.
These bags are plastic covered with pleather (Auto Upholstery type fabric is my guess).
For the same price the Vintage style saddle bags they sell are pretty dang nice looking bags and appear to be truly hand crafted.

As for the oil pump--porous cases-oil pressure problems?
I will admit the dealership I took it to did solve the problem.
It took having the bike stolen in the middle of the night and transported back to Kings Mountain while the dealership lied to me about its whereabouts--but it did eventually get fixed.

Latest issue is oil blowing out the air box.
Rides jumpy as hell--especially in lower gears.
Saddle bags turning loose and losing a pretty good amount of gear plus a set of $300 car keys with the computer chip dealy in it.
It is on its 4 tail light as we speak--brake light filament keeps breaking.
Seat and bags are going back to Paducah, KY tomorrow.

I'll get a picture up of the PREMIUM QUALITY seat.
I call it the FLYING NUN.
The bike is Black and White with a black seat--every time you ride it out on the highway the seat flaps on the side flip up and it looks like you're setting on the flying nuns head.

I'm sure wishing old Chickenstrips and some of his fellow kool aid drinkers would show back up.
Where the heck did they all go?

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 4/28/2009 6:03 PM
Man what a disappointment, didn't any near that many problems with my old 47 Chief.
Bought it as a basket case and while putting it together gotta fix that, that won't oil right.
Had really soft gears, and holy cow, not going to run it on 60w oil, 20-50. You may have a fluke and
have seen them with all brands. While working at the Honda shop had to replace a frame because
the auto welder missed the mark altogether. The Honda SL-350 had a transmission recall because the snap rings were
on backwards. The ZX-14 has the worst auto cam chain slack adjuster that ever was. Rattles like no tomorrow after 10k. Had to modify and go to manual adjust, many bent valves. The Yamaha 750 triple would burn the center bearing because of poor oil delivery. It goes on and on.


Ride like you want to make it home

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 4/29/2009 2:55:34 AM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 4/28/2009 9:00 PM
If I was that guy I'd return that P.O.S. under the lemon law and demand my money back with interest.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 4/28/2009 10:12 PM
The gerotor pump loves to cavitate, working with several types of this pump design in the machine shop have found that they hate oil above
Tellus 32, Mobil DTE light, and work well with viscosity oil around 10-40W or less. Most of the Gerotors run Velocite 10 or below.


Ride like you want to make it home


Posted By : KC Cheef - 5/1/2009 8:10 PM
Well the seat and bags are all boxed up and on their way back to the dealership in Kentucky.
Mean time I'll stick on a Corbin seat off my own 2003 Indian and keep on riding this thing.
Got 500 miles planned for it Sunday then turn around and ride it back home 500 miles on Monday.
AMAZING that this new Stellican bike was advertised as virtually nothing interchangeable to the Gilroys, and everything I change around seem to fit PERFECT.
That's pretty dang lucky is what I'm thinking?lol
This $38k Stellican is just like my $19k Gilroy.
hat's amazingly coincidental?

Posted By : basshole - 5/2/2009 8:16 AM
KC Cheef said...
Well the seat and bags are all boxed up and on their way back to the dealership in Kentucky.
Mean time I'll stick on a Corbin seat off my own 2003 Indian and keep on riding this thing.
Got 500 miles planned for it Sunday then turn around and ride it back home 500 miles on Monday.
AMAZING that this new Stellican bike was advertised as virtually nothing interchangeable to the Gilroys, and everything I change around seem to fit PERFECT.
That's pretty dang lucky is what I'm thinking?lol
This $38k Stellican is just like my $19k Gilroy.
hat's amazingly coincidental?


And they STILL can't seem to get anything right!!!! Sounds more like they're scammers.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/2/2009 9:12 AM
They aren't scamming anyone, just trying to bring back a legend. Don't be a Bass hole. I have only one tat and it is Indian Motocycle, Yes no r.


Ride like you want to make it home

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 5/2/2009 4:15:40 PM GMT


Posted By : norton - 5/2/2009 12:09 PM
Triumph Guy said...
They aren't scamming anyone,  - How do you know?
 
 I have only one tat and it is Indian Motocycle,  - So what's your point?
  Maybe if they built a premium bike without such obvious hack problems, people would have more positive things to say about them.
 
and maybe they wouldn't have gone belly up twice already.
 
......and I'm betting for it soon to be 3 times!
 
 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/2/2009 1:18 PM
Norton, your such a sweet heart, be nice and maybe the girls will let you ride my scooter. They won't let me ride it because they want to protect my manly man image. Or the sight of me wearing a Joe Rocket leather, or Harley garb suit, doesn't fit the scooter. You know how girls like to organize every thing into proper color schemes and the Terminator would have never been a hit if he chose a scooter over a Harley, (Actually that would have been pretty cool). A bad ass on a scooter. If you come to Utah let me know your female age group and how many social skills you have. Can hook you up dude.


Ride like you want to make it home

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 5/2/2009 8:45:00 PM GMT


Posted By : norton - 5/2/2009 1:48 PM
Triumph Guy said...
Norton, your such a sweet heart, be nice and maybe the girls will let you ride my scooter. They won't let me ride it because they want to protect my manly man image. Or the sight of me wearing a Joe Rocket leather, or Harley garb suit, doesn't fit the scooter. You know how girls like to organize every thing into proper color schemes and the Terminator would have never been a hit if he chose a scooter over a Harley, (Actually that would have been pretty cool). A bad ass on a scooter. If you come to Utah let me know your female age group and how many social skills you have. Can hook you up dude.

???????????????????????????????!!!

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/2/2009 1:50 PM
Sorry, have no clue how to answer that. You want a girl friend or not? More than one is costly.


Ride like you want to make it home

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 5/2/2009 9:04:46 PM GMT


Posted By : norton - 5/2/2009 1:56 PM
I had no Idea how to respond to your post either. hence the ?????????????????'s.


 
Well Enuff said...
Let me sum this up: There are only 2 kinds of riders; those that own a Valkyrie and those that wish they did.


Posted By : basshole - 5/2/2009 1:58 PM
Triumph Guy said...
They aren't scamming anyone, just trying to bring back a legend. Don't be a Bass hole. I have only one tat and it is Indian Motocycle, Yes no r.

$hitty components that are dramatically overpriced. I suppose you call that quality. What a dumfuk. No one cares about your tat but you.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : norton - 5/2/2009 2:04 PM
Triumph Guy said...
Sorry, have no clue how to answer that. You want a girl friend or not?

Sure, another girlfriend could be fun.  But I'm gonna have to run it by my ol' lady and see if she's cool with it first.
 
 
Now..... How do you KNOW that they AIN'T running a scam?

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/2/2009 2:08 PM
If your married, not cool. If your a swinger, I am not, how many friend girls do I have many.


Ride like you want to make it home

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 5/2/2009 9:12:45 PM GMT


Posted By : norton - 5/2/2009 2:11 PM
Not married, but 14 years with the same woman is about as close as a guy can get.

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/2/2009 2:15 PM
Try 30 years with the same woman, and we don't live together, and no sex. Soul mates. Sex is the destroyer between male and females.


Ride like you want to make it home

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 5/2/2009 9:20:28 PM GMT


Posted By : norton - 5/2/2009 2:22 PM

NOPE! 

  I'm not putting up with a chicks crap without knowing that there's gonna be some nookie at the end!

 

 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/2/2009 2:28 PM
Your an animal, be gentle.


Ride like you want to make it home


Posted By : norton - 5/2/2009 2:39 PM
Triumph Guy said...
Your an animal, be gentle.

That's what she said!  devil
 
 
 
(the flaming gorge - Utah)

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/2/2009 3:38 PM
Cool, nice lady.


Ride like you want to make it home


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 5/2/2009 4:56 PM
My gals are very picky. I don't own them, they own me. like a damn puppy.


Ride like you want to make it home

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 5/3/2009 12:12:30 AM GMT


Posted By : Vintage 636 - 5/28/2009 11:32 AM
So Ed (KC Chief), how is John Whites 09 Chief doing? You have been riding it, am I correct. Are all the bugs worked out?

Posted By : basshole - 5/29/2009 9:59 AM
I find it very interesting that Indian has not had an official press release since Jan '09 when they said they shipped their first bike. Also, no new dealers have been added and nothing has been mentioned about how sales are going. Also, there is no mention of any road shows, bike shows, or promotions of Indian whatsoever. Makes me think that all is not well in KM and the deep pockets aren't so deep anymore.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 5/31/2009 7:42 AM
Uhh--Vintage!!
Forget that invite to ride this motorcycle.
IT'S BROKE AGAIN!!!

Hey V-636.
After having the oil light come on at 400 miles.
The Engine cases replaced.
The oil pump replaced.
The tail light bulb fail 11 times in 4000 miles.
the bags fail on the Interstate and dumping over $500 worth of gear out on the road at 75.
The seat come apart.
The saddle bags come apart.
The floor board rubber blow off.
Spending $1110 in required maintenance to get to 5000 miles. (Synthetic Indian Oil at $14 a quart that needs changed out every 2500 miles??) WTF??

Have had the bike for 5 months and it has been missing parts--in the shop for service--or in the factory to be rebuilt for over 8 weeks of that time.

It is finally getting me down the road.
Black on White ICONIC motorcycle with a brown Corbin seat.
Looks like crap--but it is kind of getting me down the road now.
4000 miles with no problem.
Kind of what you'd expect of a $15 k motorcycle.

Now I see Indian discounting their bikes?
What's up with that?

Down to $25k on the Standard short fendered bikes.
Drop that down another $10k and they might be in the ball park.
Safe Rides--KC

Hey Vintage--let me know if you want to ride this thing.
We'll meet up if you want to come half way.

I'm thinking I know you--that 636 sounds familiar as hell.
Let me know and we'll meet up--you can ride the thing--we can talk--and all you have to do is come on here and give an HONEST evaluation.
Of the bike.
Of the service I seem to get from the dealerships.
And of your opinion as to what this thing is REALLY worth.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 6/10/2009 12:48:32 PM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 5/31/2009 8:12 AM
KC Cheef said...
Hey V-636.
After having the oil light come on at 400 miles.
The Engine cases replaced.
The oil pump replaced.
The tail light bulb fail 11 times in 4000 miles.
the bags fail on the Interstate and dumping over $500 worth of gear out on the road at 75.
The seat come apart.
The saddle bags come apart.
The floor board rubber blow off.
Spending $110 in required maintenance to get to 5000 miles. (Synthetic Indian Oil at $14 a quart that needs changed out every 2500 miles??) WTF??

Have had the bike for 5 months and it has been missing parts--in the shop for service--or in the factory to be rebuilt for over 8 weeks of that time.

It is finally getting me down the road.
Black on White ICONIC motorcycle with a brown Corbin seat.
Looks like crap--but it is kind of getting me down the road now.
4000 miles with no problem.
Kind of what you'd expect of a $15 k motorcycle.

Now I see Indian discounting their bikes?
What's up with that?

Down to $25k on the Standard short fendered bikes.
Drop that down another $10k and they might be in the ball park.
Safe Rides--KC

Hey Vintage--let me know if you want to ride this thing.
We'll meet up if you want to come half way.

I'm thinking I know you--that 636 sounds familiar as hell.
Let me know and we'll meet up--you can ride the thing--we can talk--and all you have to do is come on here and give an HONEST evaluation.
Of the bike.
Of the service I seem to get from the dealerships.
And of your opinion as to what this thing is REALLY worth.

Gee KC, you just make me wanna run right out and buy one. lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 5/31/2009 6:08 PM
Latest update.
Took off on my weekly 800 mile ride down to Duncan, Oklahoma to check in at work.
Got 30 miles down the road -- bike coughed and spit--straightened up and went another 5 miles.
Coughed and spit again--then died deader than a door nail.
No power to the display--dead motor.
Pulled over shut everything off let it set and got it to start--rode 5 miles--died again.
Coasted into a gas station.
Pulled the seat to make sure all the battery connections were tight.
All good.
I did notice, and I will post a pic of the ground to frame wire.
Rust circle around it.
I'm not talking crusty--just not what I would expect after having the bike serviced by Indian Authorized service centers every 2500 miles to the tune of over $1000.

Took the seat off--tightened all the battery connections.
Fired right off.
Got 1 more mile down the road and lost all power.
Motor--speedo displays--the whole works.
Coasted to the side of the road--let it set tried to start it--nothing.

Fiddled with the kill start switch--and got the display lit long enough to see 12.8 amps to the battery.
hit the start switch=it ticked and everything died.
Won't light back up.
Called Little Debbie to come get me.
She called Johnny Boy to get the IRG towing number.

She got there--I called the number--the lady that answered said -- two John Whites in Washington State registered but neither on is an Indian Motorcycle--have a nice day and hung up on me.
I called back and got a guy who told me--no John White registered in Washington State--give me the VIN number off the bike.
Gave him the VIN number--no VIN in our system under that number.
You are not covered but I will call you a tow out of courtesy.
Called me a tow.
Tow showed up and wanted cash to the tune of $160--preferred not to take credit.
$160 to get a 30 mile tow to the house.

Bike is setting in the garage right now.
Saddle bags gone for a month.
Seat gone for a month.
Another 30 miles on a tow truck.
Broke down not running.

I called Chris Bernauer and gave him a heads up that Johnny Boy will be calling him tomorrow.
I'm pretty damn proud of myself right now--and Chris Bernauer should be to.
I just politely informed him the bike is broke again.
And I politely informed him that JW is NOT registered under the towing service he paid for and was assured he had.
And I politely informed him that I just couldn't think of much to say right now.
Except that after paying Indian Authorized service centers over $1000 to service this bike--and the last service was a week ago that I pull the seat and find that the battery connections don't look like they have been touched by anyone but me.

Oh well--fix it and ride it again is what I'm thinking.

Posted By : basshole - 6/1/2009 10:58 AM
LEMON LAW! What pile of junk. Damn sorry to hear it too.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 6/1/2009 3:12 PM
So that's what 35 large buys you?  Wow, sign me up!  shocked
 
Hey, where are all the Indian defenders?  All I hear is the <chirp chirp> of the crickets...:p


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 6/1/2009 4:47 PM
martinjmpr said...
So that's what 35 large buys you? Wow, sign me up! shocked


Hey, where are all the Indian defenders? All I hear is the <chirp chirp> of the crickets... :p

It's funny, the closer and closer it got to KM actually shipping a bike and beyond, the less and less we heard from those who glorified all things Indian. At this point in time I find it rather difficult to defend them or even consider them a viable entity.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/1/2009 6:41 PM
BUT-BUT-BUT--they are iconic.
As for the indian defenders?
Well--I know most of those guys that were on here.
They call themselves Indian Motorcycle lovers.
They call me a hater of Indian.
I call them the INDIAN NAZIS.
I've tried to explain to them that blindly defending without questioning is NOT being a true fan of anything.
I've jumped on them more than a few times about trying to spread the BS they are fed without bothering to really look at facts.
And?
Where did Vintage 636 go off to.
I'm thinking I might have heard of a rumor or two he tried to get going if he is who I think he is.
Hey Vintage 636--are you one of the TRUE INDIAN FANS who were spreading it around that I COULD have poured dish washing soap in the oil bag to get it to
foam.

That's pretty sad right there--but whatever.
You and most of your buds don't understand TRUTH--JUSTICE--and the AMERICAN WAY!!!
Hey chickenstrips--come on back--we need your HONEST opinion on all this.
PS--hey Vintage--if you are NOT who I think you are--my apologies you old RazorBack you.

Posted By : basshole - 6/1/2009 8:20 PM
Yeah how come no ones tried to sell me on the "greatness" of these "crap on two wheels" lately???


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/2/2009 5:24 AM
Uhh--Vintage!!
Forget that invite to ride this motorcycle.
IT'S BROKE AGAIN!!!

Posted By : Vintage 636 - 6/2/2009 8:35 AM

Ed you know me. I do not get into the chicken s**t posts like you and the km's boys. I also don't put up with threats from you or anyone else. I was asking question plane & simple.

VintageRoger........AKA........Roger Cook


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/2/2009 9:18 AM
Hello Roger.
I'll apologize for not recognizing the Vintage 636--been quite a while since I left that Indian Public Forum.
Yep--I know you-and yes I'd trust you to ask honest questions.
You also know me, and you should also concede that any question you ask ME is going to be answered truthfully, no spin-no BS.
This is an Indian Motorycle we're talking about.
At least a motorcycle the new owners would like to call an Indian.

All that has gone wrong with it--all that it was advertised as being and isn't--all the spin and bulls-- your public forum friends want to hobble it with isn't the motorcycles fault.
Nothing for this bike to be ashamed of.
The shame lays with the folks who built it as something it isn't and the shame lays with your buds who keep on pumping out the bulls--t they know isn't true.

Funny how the rah-rah crowd disappeared off here.
Homer?
Dr. Mark?
Powerstroke?
chickenstrips?
Yep--they're kind of scarce around hre aren't they?
Those guys will accuse--lie and stir up trouble but they can't come back and defend facts?
Funny that.
Hey Roger.
You coming to Oklahoma?

Posted By : Vintage 636 - 6/2/2009 10:01 AM
No I won't make it to Oklahoma. I'm back to work full time after the lung cancer battle and can't take the time off work.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/2/2009 11:01 AM
Well--we'll miss you.
Good to hear the fight went well.
And?
Like I said.
You want to ask a question about this motorcycle and get an honest answer--just let me know.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/2/2009 11:06 AM
Vintage 636 said...
Ed you know me. I do not get into the chicken s**t posts like you and the km's boys. I also don't put up with threats from you or anyone else. I was asking question plane & simple.

VintageRoger........AKA........Roger Cook


LMAO.
I kind of missed the slap there Roger.
No hard feelings.
And?
Of course you get into the chicken s--t posts.
You just like to get in a little girly slap once in a while to keep out of the fray.
Me?
I'd rather just jump in and let it rip.
Hey -- if you still go over to the NAZI BOAD tell the boys hey for me.
And tell old faggotyliar we're kind of missing Chickenstrips over here.
He'll know who I mean.

Posted By : Vintage 636 - 6/2/2009 1:23 PM
Thats what I thought they were (Chicken s--t posts) on both sides Ed.....One extreme side against the other extreme side. I just said enough to try and show how wrong both sides were. That stuff got old real quick. Most of us were there to help each other with problems with there scoots because we had no factory or dealers for help. We also have had a good time getting togeather over the years at events. Not the bickering back and forth like school kids. After my cancer I have a different outlook on life, it's just to short to be mad at everyone all of the time. You should try it, you just mite like it. So let it rip, it will just go in one ear and out the other.

Posted By : Bonton - 6/2/2009 2:18 PM

As an ex patriot real 'skin from Okla, raised by okies it is a damn shame the new Indian,

especially, for 35 large can't represent quality.  I put 90,000 on my last Susuki Intruder and did not have one issue except regular maintenance.   I also own a v-max and it is bullet proof also.  I am gonna buy a new Star Raider and it is my notion it will be of the same cloth.

 

Any okies ever out in south Oregon give me a hoot.

 


Give me liberty or I will fight you to the death.   Le Bonton Rollie 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 6/2/2009 10:06 PM
After the rebuild of the 1947 Chief it was dead reliable. This is a puzzle. Running a turbo ZX-14 with 29,000 miles and also dead reliable. Many mods on both mechanical systems. The Indian was dirt simple and easy to work on and machine parts for.


Ride like you want to make it home.

Post Edited (Triumph Guy) : 6/3/2009 5:14:00 AM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/3/2009 5:23 AM
Vintage 636 said...
Thats what I thought they were (Chicken s--t posts) on both sides Ed.....One extreme side against the other extreme side. I just said enough to try and show how wrong both sides were. That stuff got old real quick. Most of us were there to help each other with problems with there scoots because we had no factory or dealers for help. We also have had a good time getting togeather over the years at events. Not the bickering back and forth like school kids. After my cancer I have a different outlook on life, it's just to short to be mad at everyone all of the time. You should try it, you just mite like it. So let it rip, it will just go in one ear and out the other.


Wrong on both sides?
Uhh--Roger--you better head to a dealership and get a close look at these new Indians.
Pretty much what your Three Wise Men told you about this motorcycle after their visit to the Mountain was -- well --untrue.
Do you followers still believe this is a new from the ground up redesigned, superior fit and finish, machine?
If you do you REALLY need to walk out to your garage look at yours and compare.
Then you need to find an 04 Gilroy and compare again.
Then you need to ask your Wise Men exactly what changed.
Yep--the engine is FI now.
Already in place for EFI as early as 02.
Frame is the same with a very slight modification that I'm still not quite understanding.
Swingarm looks to be 04 Gilroy.
Engine?
Well--while you're at the dealership take a good look at the cases and jugs!!
LMAO--the more things are said to change the more they stay the same.
5 more cubes?
Well I'm no engineer or mechanis but here is a question for you.
Take the PP-100 - remove the liners and what does it give you (besides a throw away nicosil coated jug that is well--a little cheaper than lining the jugs)?
Paint--yeah it's different--big damn deal.
Chrome--well it isn't REALLY 6 inches deep and I'm trying to figure out how your Wise men judge the depth of chrome plate by looking at it as they stated it "looked" 6 inches deep.
Slight change in suspension they changed out the shock brand.
Unfortunately the dealers and from what I witnessed the techs at Indian do a good copy but don't know how to adjust it--have YOU tried to orer a shock wrench from an Indian Dealer?
Have you watched an Indian Authorized Dealer/Service center adjjust a shock?
They use a water pump pliers--kind of leaves a mark!!!--OUCH!!
Fit an finish-IE leather work is REALLY inferior to Gilroy and no where near worth the cost.
Saddle bags are cheap to the point of being insulting.
Seat are uncomfortable and inferior quality.


As for your board being a place to go for help?
Well--when I left it was partly because I had watched your TC split and divide Indian Riders.
There's a reason for many splinter groups among Gilroy riders and the reason is your favorite Indian Organizations Rulers.
GOB--LW--SFs--BRB are all wise to your leaderships methods and morals.

Yep we did have a good time getting together over the years--until once again your group decided to split and divide.
Until your group saw a chance at taking credit for something they aren't responsible for.
Until your group saw a chance at snuggling back in with the factory at the expense of the Riders.
Yep--I'm not sure how things are going on your side today--but I'm gonna guess from what I hear you all are snuggled pretty tight with the boys from the mountain.
You all kind of forgot or maybe some of you never knew why your organization was created.
"WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' FACTORY" ring a bell with you?

As for me being mad all the time?
Well there you go Roger--following herd mentality that your buds depend on to keep you in line.
Hell--I get to ride around with GOBs and LWs.
We party--we have a good time--we ride motorcycles.
Me?
I've got nearly 12k in on Indian Motorcycles since the first of the year and I'm pretty damn satisfied.
I got the first Iron Butt Ride on an 09 and I'm thinking there's some REALLY dark humor there if I can just get it sorted out.
I got a gathering of folks to go to in June, and we party on our own--not a FACTORY event like you all seem to enjoy--I kind of like that--means we don't have to toe the line--we just get to ride and cuss and discuss without being obligated to any one.

You ride safe Roger--and stay healthy and keep that Gilroy Vintage running.
KC.

And--yep you are right in your first sentance.
Most of us WERE there to help each other with the Indians when that site was first created.
Then the site was lost to greed.
Then the site was lost to furthering egos and check books.
Now the site is lost to becoming an easy mouthpiece for Stellican.
You'll have to pay the price for dancing with the devil.
Price is going to be no criticism--no sharing knowledge.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 6/3/2009 12:33:07 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/3/2009 5:35 AM
Oh--forgot Roger.
In the end my side was right.
Stellican has NOT built a bike.
Stellican has COPIED a bike.

Big difference there--yep we were right.

Posted By : Vintage 636 - 6/3/2009 6:15 AM
Yep your right Ed...................................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Wake me when your done having a heart attack.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/3/2009 6:24 AM
No heart attacks here Roger.
And of course I'm right.
I'm out of here--time to ride this 09.
You be good Roger.
You going to the dealership and REALLY take a look?
Be good for ya.

Posted By : Vintage 636 - 6/3/2009 6:31 AM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/3/2009 6:41 AM
Yep--typical.
You and your buds really don't have much argument left in ya.
Understandable though--not much left to argue about concerning this "NEW" Indian is there.

Oh well--I'm gone for a ride.
Happy Trails Roger.

Posted By : basshole - 6/3/2009 10:24 AM
KC, Vintage is only concerned about how his bike "turns heads" and not how it performs. LOL...damn poser!!!


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Vintage 636 - 6/3/2009 10:27 AM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Another wanta be.

Posted By : basshole - 6/3/2009 11:25 AM
Vintage 636 said...
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Another wanta be.

That you are dude.............that you are..... lol lol lol lol lol lol lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Sloppy - 6/3/2009 12:18 PM
Indian of Charlotte released a price drop of 5k on short fender Chiefs and a $2.5 drop on skirted Chiefs. The thing that is the most interesting is the apathy towards Indian. I haven't seen a mag want to do a review on the bike. Besides a few forum sites, their is very little and I mean very little interest in the bikes. KC, just out of curiosity, if the bike didn't have so many problems, what is your opinion of the ride and how would you compare it to an H-D?

Posted By : martinjmpr - 6/3/2009 1:03 PM
Sloppy said...
The thing that is the most interesting is the apathy towards Indian. I haven't seen a mag want to do a review on the bike. Besides a few forum sites, their is very little and I mean very little interest in the bikes.
I'd say there are several reasons for that:
 
1.  We've been down this road before: Indian or some other old brand resurrected with big promises, then delays, delays, delays, a lackluster grand opening and shortly thereafter, the inevitable bankruptcy filing. 
 
2.  The whole fat-fender cruiser fad is really played out.  15 or even 10 years ago they might have stood a chance but now they're a "me too" cruiser with a name only motorcycle fanatics will remember. 
 
3.  Which brings me to my third point:  Consider this:  The original Indian went out of business in the early 50's.  That means that anyone who can remember Indian as a going concern is probably pushing 65 years old.  That's not exactly a choice motorcycling demographic, notwithstanding some of our "senior" members here.  smilewinkgrin
 
4.  There are a hundred "chopper" companies out there producing overpriced, overchromed pieces of "butt jewelry" already.  The only way Indian stands out from that crowd is with their historic name and valanced fenders.  That's not enough to rouse the interest of most reviewers. 
 
Bottom line is that there's nothing new about Indian and the suckers who threw their money away should have known better. 
 
In an odd way, the Stellican Indian story both vindicates and refutes P.T. Barnum (A sucker is born every minute) and H.L. Mencken (nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.)
 
That is, a sucker may be born every minute, but sooner or later suckers wise up and send their money elsewhere.  And while Stellican's start may be proof of Mencken's saying, it does appear that somebody is going to go broke because they thought Americans would be stupid enough to pay $30k for a Harley clone with bottlecap valve covers and valanced fenders.   
 
 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 6/3/2009 1:38 PM
Sloppy said...
Indian of Charlotte released a price drop of 5k on short fender Chiefs and a $2.5 drop on skirted Chiefs. The thing that is the most interesting is the apathy towards Indian. I haven't seen a mag want to do a review on the bike. Besides a few forum sites, their is very little and I mean very little interest in the bikes. KC, just out of curiosity, if the bike didn't have so many problems, what is your opinion of the ride and how would you compare it to an H-D?

As far as the magazine review goes, I'm gonna guess Indian hasn't provided them with a bike yet because there are so many flaws with the bike. Last think they want is bad press/negative reviews with minimal product in the pipeline. It's easier for them to diffuse individual reviews on a board such as this with limited exposure as opposed to major mag with a large circulation. I think "Ignorance is bliss" is the new motto for them.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/3/2009 2:53 PM
Hey Sloppy.
You'll have to excuse my not being able to answer your question with much authority.
I rode Harleys back in the '70s and things have changed a LOT since then.
I did spend a little time on a Street Glide this spring, and tell you the truth--as much as I hate to say it I prefer the HDs ride.
I am NOT dissing Harley--but I am an Indian man.
I will say this though.
I've got 50k on my Gilroy Indian.
30k on other Indians I ride for Crazy Horse.
My 03 Gilroy Vintage is SUPERIOR by far to the Stellican.
I've done a lot of work on it so that might be understandable.
I'll say the same for the other Gilroys I've ridden though--they are superior on the highway to the Stellican bike.
The 09?
I don't like the bars.
Don't like the seat.
Don't like the idea of a cruiser with no kind of throttle lock or cruise control.

Like I said before--this $33k bike would be a fair ride if it were priced $17k TOPS.
Nothing special about it.
Doesn't feel like American Iron.
I've let a number f folks ride it and so far concensus is "Metric" "Vanilla" "Not Indian"
And--before it starts.
Nope--I'm not dissing Metric or HD--it's just that the Gilroy bikes get you hooked for their comfort out on the road and they are what I prefer to ride.

Hey basshole.
Yep--I'm thinking you nailed it.
Indian -- as far as I know has never invited a major mag to test ride their bikes.
I've issued a few invites to a few of them to come ride this one for a day and no takers yet.
Offer is there if any of you know how to do it.
Major mag.
Ride the bike around KC for a day--I'll follow along--hell I'll buy the gas and the lunch.
Only requirement is an honest opinion of the ride.
(I can't wait to get them into town traffic and see how THEY handle the bucking and surging.)

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/3/2009 4:58 PM
I have been visiting some different forums,Trying to find information about Indian Motorcycles. I see you on so many of these forums crying about a 2009 Indian motorcycle that some guy bought you (sounds fishy to me),dont you have a job or a girlfriend/wife to occupy your time?
If its such a hunk of junk why dont you just give it back to your boyfriend and let him ride it.

Get a life dude!

Posted By : rdawsoniii - 6/3/2009 6:43 PM

I have been visiting some different forums,Trying to find information about Indian Motorcycles. I see you on so many of these forums crying about a 2009 Indian motorcycle that some guy bought you (sounds fishy to me),dont you have a job or a girlfriend/wife to occupy your time?
If its such a hunk of junk why dont you just give it back to your boyfriend and let him ride it.

Get a life dude!

Uh-oh.  Hang onto your shorts.


Posted By : Sloppy - 6/3/2009 7:17 PM
Yeah, I gotta admit it sounds a little weird to me as well. Some of the post seem to be more of an ax to grind for personal reasons. The Gilroy bikes looked like Mattel made them. I will say as looks go Stellicon's looks a million times better. What I want to know, is how the engine compares to the H-D 96 and 113 as well as the old Gilroy Powerplus and the S&S. What is the acceleration, how smooth is it? How does the bike ride and handle?

Posted By : basshole - 6/3/2009 8:24 PM
Harl Lee said...
I have been visiting some different forums,Trying to find information about Indian Motorcycles. I see you on so many of these forums crying about a 2009 Indian motorcycle that some guy bought you (sounds fishy to me),dont you have a job or a girlfriend/wife to occupy your time?
If its such a hunk of junk why dont you just give it back to your boyfriend and let him ride it.

Get a life dude!

Nice first post TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/4/2009 7:10 AM
Vintage 636 said...
Ed you know me. I do not get into the chicken s**t posts like you and the km's boys. I also don't put up with threats from you or anyone else. I was asking question plane & simple.

VintageRoger........AKA........Roger Cook


Uh-oh here we go.
Threats?
Where is the threat Roger?
Read back through this complete thread and let me know who has been threatened on here.
And?
Yep--you do follow the herd don't you?
Threats--LMAO.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/4/2009 7:30 AM
Harl Lee said...
I have been visiting some different forums,Trying to find information about Indian Motorcycles. I see you on so many of these forums crying about a 2009 Indian motorcycle that some guy bought you (sounds fishy to me),dont you have a job or a girlfriend/wife to occupy your time?
If its such a hunk of junk why dont you just give it back to your boyfriend and let him ride it.

Get a life dude!


Oh my!!
Well here we go with another fake user name.

Here is a suggestion.
Why don't YOU come ride this thing?
Report back honest on it.
I'll even buy the gas and take you to lunch.
As for my "boyfriend"--I'll let it slide because I'm thinking I know you, and I'd rather not get into the BS with you.
As for riding it?
Well
Nope--my posts are truthful--I use the name folks know me by--I don't sneak around.

Funny thing is?
The thing you all seem to be missing is.
The FACTORY has confirmed EVERY problem I've had on this bike.
Confirmed the problems as legitimate.
No rider error--no sabotauge--no BS.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/4/2009 7:54 AM
Harl Lee said...
I have been visiting some different forums,Trying to find information about Indian Motorcycles. I see you on so many of these forums crying about a 2009 Indian motorcycle that some guy bought you (sounds fishy to me),dont you have a job or a girlfriend/wife to occupy your time?
If its such a hunk of junk why dont you just give it back to your boyfriend and let him ride it.

Get a life dude!


Well Harl Lee.
To answer your questions?
Yep--I'm married.
35 years.
REALLY good girl.

Job?
Same job for 35 years.
Travelled all over the world doing what I love to do.

As for the giving the bike back to my "boyfriend?
I'll let the insult slide.
I'm thinking the best way to handle you and your "Bros" is to respond to honest questions, and let the BS slide.

As for the "hunk of junk and just giving it back part?
Well what do you reckon?
I got some time off this summer.
I got the money to ride the motorcycle.
I got the motorcycle to ride provided by a FRIEND who wants to see it ridden.

Let me see?
Every problem I've reported is legitimate and confirmed by the factory.

Why argue with you and your buds?

From here on out--you ask a question--I'll answer it if it concerns this motorcycle.
You insult and try to stir the pot--I'll ignore you.
Sound fair?

Posted By : rdawsoniii - 6/4/2009 10:28 AM

KC, you let Harl off easy. :-)

If someone gave me a motorcycle to ride (for free!) you can bet I'd be riding the heck out of it.....don't care WHAT kind it is.

I wish I was going to be down Kanas City way in the near futue.....I'd be happy to take a ride on JW's bike!

The wife and I will be heading over to Omaha sometime this summer and I plan on stopping in the dealership there and get a look at the new Indians in person.

*If* they fix the problems....and *if*  they fix the price a little....and *if* they are still in business a couple years from now, I'll consider buying one.  If not, I'll try to find me a Gilroy that is in good shape and go that route instead.

At this point I'm not concerned much about any problems that arise with the new bikes.  It is their first year of production after all.  I'm more concerned with how the company handles them.  If they work hard to get the problems fixed....fine and dandy.  If they blow their customers off and buying a Stellican Indian becomes a hit-and-miss proposition....no thanks. 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/4/2009 10:35 AM
Hey rdawsoniii--I didn't intend to let Harl Lee off easy.
But I suspect I know him and I suspect I know the reason he is here.
If he is who I think--well--he IS what I think and doesn't really interest me.
I just figure from here on out--answer questions--post what the bike gives me--and let the rest slide.
Yepp--look me up if you get out this way-take a ride and let folks know what YOU think.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/4/2009 7:58 PM
You dont know me but every where I go you are there bitching about a Indian,I apologize for the boyfriend comment,I dont know you and you dont know me

Posted By : basshole - 6/4/2009 8:54 PM
Harl Lee said...
You dont know me but every where I go you are there bitching about a Indian,I apologize for the boyfriend comment,I dont know you and you dont know me

But we do know your a troll.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/4/2009 9:18 PM
Harl Lee said...
You dont know me but every where I go you are there bitching about a Indian,I apologize for the boyfriend comment,I dont know you and you dont know me



Apology accepted.
Where do you go to hear the "bitching about the Indian"?

And--do you consider legitimate observations--confirmed by the Indian Factory to be legitimate "bitches"?
Hey PM me your phone number and we'll talk.
I'm thinking you're out of Cali.
I'm thinking you ride Indian.

Hey--I'll PM YOU if you like.
Grab a plane--come on to Kansas City and ride this thing and let me show you a few things and tell the nice folks here what you think.
Leave the attitude at home and lets go ride.

And yes--in the STRICT double speak of you and your buds I don't KNOW you--we've never met personally.
But consider that my fault.
I don't especially WANT to meet you but I'll make you an offer.
You get here--we'll ride--I'll buy the gas and feed you lunch.
I'll show you a Gilroy VINTAGE explain to you what you're looking at and you can decide if this Stellican is a copy of the 04 Gilroy.
You can bolt off and bolt on from one to the other and show me what DOESN'T fit.
I'll show you the engine and I'll explain the foundry markings to you and you can decide if it is a Ramsden from the Gilroy moulds.
I'll explain to you how you turn a PP100 into a 105 by removing the liners and coating the jugs.
I would show you the leather and let you make a judgement for these folks -- but it fell apart and is back at the factory so they can figure out how to rig it up for RIDING!
All it costs you is a report back to these folks.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 6/5/2009 4:29:20 AM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/5/2009 4:07 PM
Another observation on this Stellican bike.
At 75 to 80 the EFI -- 105 CI -- 6 speed Baker is giving me 37 MPG--all the time--steady as can be.
My carburated Cheef 100 CI gets me 35 at that speed with a 5 speed tranny in it.

Figurred it would be higher than that.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/6/2009 5:26 AM
KC Cheef said...
Harl Lee said...
You dont know me but every where I go you are there bitching about a Indian,I apologize for the boyfriend comment,I dont know you and you dont know me



Apology accepted.
Where do you go to hear the "bitching about the Indian"?

And--do you consider legitimate observations--confirmed by the Indian Factory to be legitimate "bitches"?
Hey PM me your phone number and we'll talk.
I'm thinking you're out of Cali.
I'm thinking you ride Indian.

Hey--I'll PM YOU if you like.
Grab a plane--come on to Kansas City and ride this thing and let me show you a few things and tell the nice folks here what you think.
Leave the attitude at home and lets go ride.

And yes--in the STRICT double speak of you and your buds I don't KNOW you--we've never met personally.
But consider that my fault.
I don't especially WANT to meet you but I'll make you an offer.
You get here--we'll ride--I'll buy the gas and feed you lunch.
I'll show you a Gilroy VINTAGE explain to you what you're looking at and you can decide if this Stellican is a copy of the 04 Gilroy.
You can bolt off and bolt on from one to the other and show me what DOESN'T fit.
I'll show you the engine and I'll explain the foundry markings to you and you can decide if it is a Ramsden from the Gilroy moulds.
I'll explain to you how you turn a PP100 into a 105 by removing the liners and coating the jugs.
I would show you the leather and let you make a judgement for these folks -- but it fell apart and is back at the factory so they can figure out how to rig it up for RIDING!
All it costs you is a report back to these folks.
Well,You seem to be a authority on the last attempt to resurrect Indian and this attempt,you say that its a a 2004 Indian with fuel injection and I'll buy that as you know much more than I do about the new Indians.
My question to you is
Knowing that the 2002/2003 Indian motorcycles had so many problems and this is a copy of that motorcycle,what made you this 2009 would be any different?
 
and no I'm not from California and once again you do not know me and I do not know you.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/6/2009 6:33 AM
Harl Lee said...
KC Cheef said...



Harl Lee said...

You dont know me but every where I go you are there bitching about a Indian,I apologize for the boyfriend comment,I dont know you and you dont know me



Apology accepted.
Where do you go to hear the "bitching about the Indian"?

And--do you consider legitimate observations--confirmed by the Indian Factory to be legitimate "bitches"?
Hey PM me your phone number and we'll talk.
I'm thinking you're out of Cali.
I'm thinking you ride Indian.

Hey--I'll PM YOU if you like.
Grab a plane--come on to Kansas City and ride this thing and let me show you a few things and tell the nice folks here what you think.
Leave the attitude at home and lets go ride.

And yes--in the STRICT double speak of you and your buds I don't KNOW you--we've never met personally.
But consider that my fault.
I don't especially WANT to meet you but I'll make you an offer.
You get here--we'll ride--I'll buy the gas and feed you lunch.
I'll show you a Gilroy VINTAGE explain to you what you're looking at and you can decide if this Stellican is a copy of the 04 Gilroy.
You can bolt off and bolt on from one to the other and show me what DOESN'T fit.
I'll show you the engine and I'll explain the foundry markings to you and you can decide if it is a Ramsden from the Gilroy moulds.
I'll explain to you how you turn a PP100 into a 105 by removing the liners and coating the jugs.
I would show you the leather and let you make a judgement for these folks -- but it fell apart and is back at the factory so they can figure out how to rig it up for RIDING!
All it costs you is a report back to these folks.
Well,You seem to be a authority on the last attempt to resurrect Indian and this attempt,you say that its a a 2004 Indian with fuel injection and I'll buy that as you know much more than I do about the new Indians.
My question to you is

Knowing that the 2002/2003 Indian motorcycles had so many problems and this is a copy of that motorcycle,what made you this 2009 would be any different?



and no I'm not from California and once again you do not know me and I do not know you.


Authority?
Nope not me.
It doesn't take any kind of authority to see what it is once you get a look at the '09.

What made me think it was going to be different?
Well--I'm going to guess you must not have been following the hype from the Mountain.

Elite Iconic Heritage Brand.
Sure to be an investment.
Not going to make the mistakes Gilroy made.
Virtually all new and redesigned--Virtually nothing will interchange.
Not a warmed over Gilroy.

Hey Harl Lee--yep--from your reaction to my PM I'm guessing I DO know you.
As I replied back to you--feel free to post the PM.
I'm guessing I know you because only you and your buds would consider that PM threatening.
Only you and you buds are drama queenish enough to be saying that.

And?
When you going to come ride this thing?
Kansas City is famous for BBQ--I'm buyin--you get to ride an 09.
All you have to do is get here and write up a review for the boys.

Posted By : basshole - 6/6/2009 9:11 AM
Harl Lee said...
KC Cheef said...



Harl Lee said...

You dont know me but every where I go you are there bitching about a Indian,I apologize for the boyfriend comment,I dont know you and you dont know me



Apology accepted.
Where do you go to hear the "bitching about the Indian"?

And--do you consider legitimate observations--confirmed by the Indian Factory to be legitimate "bitches"?
Hey PM me your phone number and we'll talk.
I'm thinking you're out of Cali.
I'm thinking you ride Indian.

Hey--I'll PM YOU if you like.
Grab a plane--come on to Kansas City and ride this thing and let me show you a few things and tell the nice folks here what you think.
Leave the attitude at home and lets go ride.

And yes--in the STRICT double speak of you and your buds I don't KNOW you--we've never met personally.
But consider that my fault.
I don't especially WANT to meet you but I'll make you an offer.
You get here--we'll ride--I'll buy the gas and feed you lunch.
I'll show you a Gilroy VINTAGE explain to you what you're looking at and you can decide if this Stellican is a copy of the 04 Gilroy.
You can bolt off and bolt on from one to the other and show me what DOESN'T fit.
I'll show you the engine and I'll explain the foundry markings to you and you can decide if it is a Ramsden from the Gilroy moulds.
I'll explain to you how you turn a PP100 into a 105 by removing the liners and coating the jugs.
I would show you the leather and let you make a judgement for these folks -- but it fell apart and is back at the factory so they can figure out how to rig it up for RIDING!
All it costs you is a report back to these folks.
Well,You seem to be a authority on the last attempt to resurrect Indian and this attempt,you say that its a a 2004 Indian with fuel injection and I'll buy that as you know much more than I do about the new Indians.
My question to you is

Knowing that the 2002/2003 Indian motorcycles had so many problems and this is a copy of that motorcycle,what made you this 2009 would be any different?



and no I'm not from California and once again you do not know me and I do not know you.

Hey Harl Lee trool, can you post a pic of your bike? Maybe one of you posing next to it on the trailer?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/6/2009 1:18 PM
You are a funny guy

Posted By : Sloppy - 6/6/2009 1:27 PM
basshole:

Why do you and KC make these post so personal? "Troll", "I think I know you", all this sh--. Both of you sound like a couple of hens when there is criticism. Most people on this site are truly interested in Indians for one reason or another and want to find out TRUTHFULLY what others are saying out there. There just isn't a lot of coverage and contrary to what others are saying I am sure Stellicon is dying to have someone do an article on their bikes. Any retail manufacturer would be. I just don't think there is enough interest in there products and I think the price point is way too high. The problem I have on this site is that you and KC constantly bash anyone who questions you and make this entirely too personal. If I were to place a bet, I would bet that you and KC are the same person and that you had a financial interest in Gilroy (employee or partial owner of the business and have a vendetta against some others that lost you money.) Reading some of these posts and one that was deleted, it is hard to believe that you are not very bitter towards Stellicon. Maybe for a good reason, but it would be nice to be a little more objective on the site. By the way, I live in NC, if you drive down on the Indian and let me check it out and go over the problems, I will pay for the gas and pay for dinner. Read my posts, do you know me? Am I a troll.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/6/2009 2:28 PM
Sloppy
I have spoken with other owners of 2009 Indian motorcycles and none are having the troubles that this guy has.Sounds a littly fishy to me too.

Posted By : basshole - 6/6/2009 2:56 PM
Sloppy said...
basshole:

Why do you and KC make these post so personal? "Troll", "I think I know you", all this sh--. Both of you sound like a couple of hens when there is criticism. Most people on this site are truly interested in Indians for one reason or another and want to find out TRUTHFULLY what others are saying out there. There just isn't a lot of coverage and contrary to what others are saying I am sure Stellicon is dying to have someone do an article on their bikes. Any retail manufacturer would be. I just don't think there is enough interest in there products and I think the price point is way too high. The problem I have on this site is that you and KC constantly bash anyone who questions you and make this entirely too personal. If I were to place a bet, I would bet that you and KC are the same person and that you had a financial interest in Gilroy (employee or partial owner of the business and have a vendetta against some others that lost you money.) Reading some of these posts and one that was deleted, it is hard to believe that you are not very bitter towards Stellicon. Maybe for a good reason, but it would be nice to be a little more objective on the site. By the way, I live in NC, if you drive down on the Indian and let me check it out and go over the problems, I will pay for the gas and pay for dinner. Read my posts, do you know me? Am I a troll.


LOL....Nice try Sloppy. KC and I have never met nor have we ever communicated other than via PM on here. I just happen to call bulls**t when I see bulls**t and the folks who are drinking the Indian Kool aid are just that, full of bulls**t. I was at the Indian caravan at Cooks Corner (that's in So Cal) last summer and they had the whole line out for people to "look at". Not to touch, not to ride, not to talk about, just to "look at". And then about a dozen lil Indian workers up in the trailer lookin down on one trying to look tough but not to answer questions (oh and to try and sell leather Indian jackets for $960.00 that are made in China) but just to try and portray an image. Have you ever wondered why Indian can't sell bikes in CA?? Because they can't get an engine to pass CARB. That's pretty weak. FYI Objectiveness went out the window on this thread back when the Indian Kool aid sippers refused to admit that this was gonna be a tough sell and that the product warranted the excessive price tag. You can check out Indian all you want but until they can produce a product that can be sold in CA then they're just a boutique bike and not a major player like they want you to believe. As for are you a troll? Well if all whopping 12 posts you've enlightened us with happen to fall in this thread then yes. You are a troll.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 6/6/2009 2:59 PM
Harl Lee said...
You are a funny guy

I know. You should catch my stand up act sometime! yeah


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 6/6/2009 3:01 PM
Harl Lee said...
Sloppy
I have spoken with other owners of 2009 Indian motorcycles and none are having the troubles that this guy has.Sounds a littly fishy to me too.

How many other 2009 Indian owners do you know? How many '09's have they sold? 23?? Are they all back in the shop for warranty work?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/6/2009 3:52 PM
basshole said...
Harl Lee said...
Sloppy
I have spoken with other owners of 2009 Indian motorcycles and none are having the troubles that this guy has.Sounds a littly fishy to me too.

How many other 2009 Indian owners do you know? How many '09's have they sold? 23?? Are they all back in the shop for warranty work?

So,are you saying that the 2009 Indians Chiefs are overpriced  Junk ,just like the 2002/2003 Chiefs ?
 
Does it bother you that the people that bought 2009 Indians are happy,all but one.
 
 
 
 

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/6/2009 4:35 PM
Hey Har Lee.
EVERY one knows a guy who might know a guy who might own an Indian.
Or they talked to a guy who might have spoken to someone or heard some where about an 09 Indian.
I know a couple of them myself.
One claims no problems--and I'm guessing the reason is because he rides for brunch on a Sunday once in a while.
The other rides the bejesus out of his and--yep he's had problems.
Not as many or as major as this bike has had--but he's had problems--some of the problems are the same ones I've had.

Me?
Like I've said.
EVERY problem I have had with the bike has been confirmed in writing by the Indian factory.
And a number of the problems I've had have been experienced by factory riders also.

You know a guy--I know a guy--we all know a guy or two.
Difference is -- I am one of the guys riding one and I don't have to pretend anything.

Still would like to know--and Har Lee and Slopp y--here's a question for you.
Exactly what part of my experiences do you not beleive?
I HAVE made you a pretty fair offer to come ride it your self.
I WILL continue to let folks know how the bike is performing, and the problems I encounter along the way.


One thing you might be right about is the taking it personal thing.

I'm going to solve that though by ignoring you two.
I'll work up a list --post it--and you two can squeek to each other.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/6/2009 5:28 PM
Enjoy your Indian

Later

Posted By : basshole - 6/7/2009 3:58 PM
Harl Lee said...
Enjoy your Indian

Later

Thanks for leaving. And happy posing!!! lol lol lol lol lol lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/10/2009 5:44 AM
900 miles on the Stellican Bike this past weekend.
NO PROBLEMS!!!

Spoke to Indian on the Mountain today.
Looks like the seat and saddle bags and battery are on the way.

Time for another 2500 mile service.
7560 miles on the bike now - I'll be 260 miles past service interval by the time I get it to the nearest dealer.

Looking at around $200 to have a 7500 mile service--got to get that $14 a quart synthetic Indian oil out of that engine--been in there 2500 miles now..
And I figure another 12 to 1500 miles next week is going to put me looking at a new rear tire.
I have one waiting at the dealership, and it's looking to be around $300 installed.

This bike is truly ICONIC to keep running.

Posted By : basshole - 6/10/2009 8:05 AM
KC Cheef said...
900 miles on the Stellican Bike this past weekend.
NO PROBLEMS!!!

Spoke to Indian on the Mountain today.
Looks like the seat and saddle bags and battery are on the way.

Time for another 2500 mile service.
7560 miles on the bike now - I'll be 260 miles past service interval by the time I get it to the nearest dealer.

Looking at around $200 to have a 7500 mile service--got to get that $14 a quart synthetic Indian oil out of that engine--been in there 2500 miles now..
And I figure another 12 to 1500 miles next week is going to put me looking at a new rear tire.
I have one waiting at the dealership, and it's looking to be around $300 installed.

This bike is truly ICONIC to keep running.

Christ almighty!!! What do they think you are? An Indian casino operator?? lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/11/2009 7:47 PM

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/11/2009 9:13 PM
Harl Lee said...


You just rode one didn't you? lol

They do tend to do that to you on a long ride.
I think it might be that exhaust note--(or lack thereof).
No problem though--Indian dealers are "reported" to be able to fix that for you.
Not sure what they do--but I got a good idea.

Posted By : ExDaytonaRider - 6/11/2009 11:06 PM
My Sister-In Law has a Silver Chief (unsure of the year I think 04??)

She rides it a fair distance now and then, 500-1000 miles at a shot.

She has had numerous problems from tail light lenses falling off due to vibration cracks to oil leaks and charging issues.

WHile it's a beautiful bike to look at she'll never buy another and is looking metric this time around.

Maybe the 09's are better?

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/12/2009 4:40 AM
ExDaytonaRider said...
My Sister-In Law has a Silver Chief (unsure of the year I think 04??)

She rides it a fair distance now and then, 500-1000 miles at a shot.

She has had numerous problems from tail light lenses falling off due to vibration cracks to oil leaks and charging issues.

WHile it's a beautiful bike to look at she'll never buy another and is looking metric this time around.

Maybe the 09's are better?
       from what I hear the 09's are much better,just wait in a few years you will be seeing low mileage bikes up for sale at a good price once the novelty rubs off

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/12/2009 5:00 AM
Hey Har Lee.
From your first post.

"I have been visiting some different forums,Trying to find information about Indian Motorcycles."

Funny how you've gone from the above statement to knowing more 09 riders than anyone I know of.

Exactly how are the 09s 'much better"

Look to me like the same bike as the 04s.
Looks to me like they put in EFI--different shock--dual disc--and messed up the bars.


I'll still admit--nice short distance ride when it is running right.

Sucks on long distance though.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/12/2009 5:14 AM
Your right,I have been visiting some sites and I dont know anyone who rides a 09 India,I have spoken to some who have bought them and are real happy with them.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/12/2009 5:39 AM
Wow--good job of tracking 09 riders down.
You are the only person I know of that has been able to find more than one or two of them.
I can only find 3 individual owners.
One is a mouthpiece for the Mountain.
One has had a number of problems also.
One rides for the factory.

I do know a couple of dealership owners who ride them--but lets see--what do you reckon they are going to be telling you? lol

Posted By : basshole - 6/12/2009 10:48 AM
Harl Lee said...
ExDaytonaRider said...

My Sister-In Law has a Silver Chief (unsure of the year I think 04??)

She rides it a fair distance now and then, 500-1000 miles at a shot.

She has had numerous problems from tail light lenses falling off due to vibration cracks to oil leaks and charging issues.

WHile it's a beautiful bike to look at she'll never buy another and is looking metric this time around.

Maybe the 09's are better?
from what I hear the 09's are much better,just wait in a few years you will be seeing low mileage bikes up for sale at a good price once the novelty rubs off

Got proof their better? Who's telling you they are better? FYI, the "novelty" never rubbed on for it to rub off. lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/12/2009 4:00 PM
basshole said...
Harl Lee said...
ExDaytonaRider said...

My Sister-In Law has a Silver Chief (unsure of the year I think 04??)

She rides it a fair distance now and then, 500-1000 miles at a shot.

She has had numerous problems from tail light lenses falling off due to vibration cracks to oil leaks and charging issues.

WHile it's a beautiful bike to look at she'll never buy another and is looking metric this time around.

Maybe the 09's are better?
from what I hear the 09's are much better,just wait in a few years you will be seeing low mileage bikes up for sale at a good price once the novelty rubs off

Got proof their better? Who's telling you they are better? FYI, the "novelty" never rubbed on for it to rub off. lol

I guess it possible that they are POS like the 2002/2003 models.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/12/2009 7:55 PM
99-03 weren't really all that bad.
Actually better assembled, and not so "plastic" looking as the 09s.

My 03 had problems--still has them.
BUT.
At least it made 12k miles before ANY problems showed up.
Had it rebuilt and it made 40k before any thing else showed up.


This 09 I'm riding started in at 7---that's right 7 miles.
Har Lee--want me to jot down the list again for you?
And?
If you think I'm BSing you I can provide you with documentation direct from the factory.

Oh--forgot Har Lee.
I'm going to guess you ride a Gilroy.
That would give you the right to call my bike a POS.

If you don't ride a Gilroy--well--not a classy statement you made there.
You should practice your Little Miss Manners a little more dilligently.
Know what I mean? lol

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 6/13/2009 2:58:21 AM GMT


Posted By : basshole - 6/12/2009 9:24 PM
Harl Lee said...
basshole said...



Harl Lee said...



ExDaytonaRider said...


My Sister-In Law has a Silver Chief (unsure of the year I think 04??)

She rides it a fair distance now and then, 500-1000 miles at a shot.

She has had numerous problems from tail light lenses falling off due to vibration cracks to oil leaks and charging issues.

WHile it's a beautiful bike to look at she'll never buy another and is looking metric this time around.

Maybe the 09's are better?
from what I hear the 09's are much better,just wait in a few years you will be seeing low mileage bikes up for sale at a good price once the novelty rubs off

Got proof their better? Who's telling you they are better? FYI, the "novelty" never rubbed on for it to rub off.


I guess it possible that they are POS like the 2002/2003 models.

Ummm...dude. Don't compare it to something else. Especially something that old. Come on, I thought you were smarter than that. Can you provide ANY published UNBIASED reviews?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/13/2009 5:38 AM
Can you provide ANY published UNBIASED reviews you ask,
 
 
Can You?
 
Besides, You guys say its a copy of the last attempt at building a Indian Motorcycle.
Remember the Pinto? What if I copied the Pinto and put fuel injection and Disc brakes on it, Its still a Pinto, Right?
 
I just hope the new bikes last more than 12,000 miles before needing a rebuild.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/13/2009 5:40 AM
KC Cheef said...
Harl Lee said...


You just rode one didn't you? lol

They do tend to do that to you on a long ride.
I think it might be that exhaust note--(or lack thereof).
No problem though--Indian dealers are "reported" to be able to fix that for you.
Not sure what they do--but I got a good idea.
I think they are putting Star bucks coffee shops in the dealerships

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/13/2009 5:49 AM
Harl Lee said...
Can you provide ANY published UNBIASED reviews you ask,




Can You?



Besides, You guys say its a copy of the last attempt at building a Indian Motorcycle.

Remember the Pinto? What if I copied the Pinto and put fuel injection and Disc brakes on it, Its still a Pinto, Right?



I just hope the new bikes last more than 12,000 miles before needing a rebuild.



The one I'm riding lasted 485 miles before it was stolen and taken back to the factory for a rebuild.

Since then it has kind of -- sort of been OK if you don't count.
Oil Pump failure.
Saddle bag failure.
11 tail light bulbs popping.
Seat failure.
Battery failure.
Floor board rubbers flying off on the highway.

That has all happened within the first 4000 miles.

As for the Starbucks?
The new Indian Riders don't need them.
We just meet up in Charlottes Indian dealership and drink our coffee there.
That is one NICE place to meet and drink coffee.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/22/2009 4:06 AM
WOW

Still building the same POS as before I see

If Ford put Fuel Injection and disc brakes on a Pinto it would still be a pinto,like lipstick on a pig,your still kissing a pig

Did you expect any less?

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/22/2009 4:21 AM
Harl Lee said...
WOW

Still building the same POS as before I see

If Ford put Fuel Injection and disc brakes on a Pinto it would still be a pinto,like lipstick on a pig,your still kissing a pig

Did you expect any less?


I didn't expect them to build anything.
We were led to believe it was going to be all new and different from the Gilroy bikes.
We were led to believe it WAS all new and different than the Gilroy bikes.
We were led to believe that right up to the day the owner of this bike had me park it in my garage.
The day that happened the story began to change.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/22/2009 10:39 AM
Still building the same POS as before I see,With Fuel injection and dual disc brakes.

The Pinto of the motorcycle world.

I bet the owner of that particular Indian feels like he took a screwing.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 6/22/2009 3:16 PM
The impression I get from the owner is that he is satisfied with the bike right now.
Took a lot of patience for him to get the bike to the point it is reliable. (Hopefully)
Stellican did the right thing for the most part.
They did miss some key customer service points as far as I'm concerned to get it right--but they are in a learning mode.
Problem I see is there should be no learning mode for them to go through when you consider it was advertised as the Bentley of the Motorcycle world.
The issues the bike suffered should never have made it out onto the road.
The cheap leather at those prices should be "reconsidered" by the powers at Stellican.

Just a shame that this ride is ridiculously priced.
Cut the cost of it in half and it might be the right ride for a lot of folks.
The price it is now though will ultimately kill the Stellican attempt in my opinion.

Looks like it's going for another 1000 mile weekend in a few days.
I'm hoping to get to the 10k mark on it now with no more problems.
It's first 7.5K miles were less than stellar.

Hey Harl Lee.
I read your last post carefully and --YES I do know you.
Just remember what happened the last time you came onto another motorcycle board under a false name.
You created your own legend in the Gilroy World--and yes--I continue to spread your legend for you.
A lot of times good old common sense will come out on top of SUPERIOR INTELLECT. lol

Posted By : Harl Lee - 6/22/2009 5:51 PM

Mr KC

One last time,you do not know me,My real name is Harley. Harley was my grandfathers name but he wasn't named after the motorcycle & neither was I, but it  worked out good for both of us as we both rode/ride Harley Davidson's.

I do think you are right about the price of the Indians,way overpriced,nice bikes though just not worth the asking.

the club I ride with has a few Club houses in the Carolinas & the next time we do a club ride up there I'm going to stop in Charlotte and check out the dealership,I'm not a big fan of the HD  Dealerships,I just have to see a Indian dealership & look at the different models.


Posted By : rdawsoniii - 6/23/2009 5:17 PM

I'll be in Omaha tomorrow and plan on stopping at the Indian dealership there.  Won't be buying a bike (maybe and overpriced shirt???), but I'll at least get a chance to see one of these new machines in the flesh.

It will be a "treat" for me because I have seen very, very few Indians.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 7/2/2009 9:35 PM
Well the sad day is upon me.
The 09 went home to Washington State this past Sutruday so no more 09 Stellican in my garage.
8700 miles logged in 6 months.
Not bad considering the bike was broken 3 months of the 6.

Sad to see it go.
It was finally giving me a couple thousand miles between break downs.

Yep--sad news.

Got good news though.
Me and Crazy Horse are going to Sturgis to pick up a new and improved radically changed like you never seen before all new 2010 Indian Chief.

Damn--I got over 14 k miles so far this summer on a Stellican bike--a 03 right side drive fuel injected fat tire Gilroy Chief--a 03 Gilroy we call the Thunder Dreamer because he has a 124 S&S and a Baker DD^ Tranny, and a 2002 Gilroy Cheef Trike now it looks like I'm gonna have to go ride a 2010 Stellican bike again.

I'm trying to figure out how many miles I'd be doing on these things if I hated Indian as bad as old chickenstrips and his buds keep trying to convince folks I hate them.

Hey strips--hey Harl Lee--get ready--looks like round 2.

Posted By : basshole - 7/2/2009 10:04 PM
they're gonna keep makin those things?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Harl Lee - 7/3/2009 5:19 AM
basshole said...
they're gonna keep makin those things?

good questionlol
 
seems like they kept the reliability af the mid 50s indians,I guess thats what the Indian rider of today wants.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 7/3/2009 10:09 PM
Harl Lee said...
basshole said...

they're gonna keep makin those things?

good question lol


seems like they kept the reliability af the mid 50s indians,I guess thats what the Indian rider of today wants.


Not the Indian Riders I know.
Most of the folks I hang and ride with want INDIAN to come back STRONG.
Most of the Indian Riders I know and hang with want INDIAN to succeed as a brand.
Most of the INDIAN Riders I know and hang with love the brand even though we are only riding an attempt to honor the old ones.
Most of the Indian Riders I know and hang with consider the Stellican attempt to be an embarassment to the bikes we ride.
Most of the Indian Riders I know and hang with are just being patient until the brand comes to someone who will make it what it should be.
Iconic elitist snobbery just don't seem to have a place in the world of motorcycle riding unless you happen to be an elitist snob.
Most of the Indian Riders I know are not elitist or snobs.

Posted By : Harl Lee - 7/13/2009 3:27 AM
Most of the Indian Riders I know and hang with consider the Stellican attempt to be an embarassment to the bikes we ride.


Why is that?

Posted By : Ada Ada - 7/14/2009 7:03 AM
I'm new to this thread and it is way too long to pick up on. It would probably help to have a new thread with the salient points repeated.

I'm not sure what a 'Stellican' is. I know they were once making the Indians in GIllroy, CA where there were a lot of pelicans along the sea shore. Is that it?

Also, is there a large consensus that the new Indians are not reliable? Is that the jest of this thread? But that they're getting better? How would anyone know that?

I don't see how 'a lot of the guys that I ride and hang with' can all be familiar with the new Indian, if that is what is being discussed. Their cannot be more than one or two neww Indians on the road, much less a lot of them owned by several close associates. Maybe I missed something.


 


Posted By : rdawsoniii - 7/14/2009 4:38 PM
Ada....Stellican is the investment group that owns the new Indian Motorcycle company.
 
There really isn't a "large" consensus one way or the other as far as reliability.  I know KC Cheef extensively test drove the Indian purchased by John White and had several problems pop up.  There is another owner on the Indian "Public Board" who reports no problems.  There are certainly more than "one or two" on the road but only "one or two" owners have publicly posted their experiences.
 
I doubt you are going to run into very many people who are "familiar" with the new Indian.  Many bikers have an opinion, but most are not based on their own personal feelings and not fact.
 
Yes, there have been some problems....but how many first year motorcycle/car productions don't have problems?  From what I have heard, Indian has been quick to respond and to fix the issues that do come up.  Even John White...who's bike had significant things go wrong...is now happy with it.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 7/15/2009 7:32 AM
As for the owner being happy with it?
Yes--I think he is--or at least was until this past Sunday.
More of the story yet to be told.

Posted By : basshole - 7/15/2009 10:39 AM
KC Cheef said...
As for the owner being happy with it?
Yes--I think he is--or at least was until this past Sunday.
More of the story yet to be told.


OK, what happened now??


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 7/17/2009 8:59 PM
LMAO!!
Looks like the faithful are dropping like flies.

Hey Vintage 636.

WORD is!!
You got to experience the Stellican Bike mystique for about 4 hours while you led the parade on GRAND OPENING DAY of your local dealership.

WORD is!!
Your opinion of the MOTORCYCLE is??
Well--not so favorable.

LMAO--and you only rode it for 4 hours or so leading the parade of faithful on a sun shiney beeeeeeutifuuuul day.
I rode it for 8500 miles through rain and wind and night and day.

Hey Vintage--come on and tell the nice folks what you told the nice folks on your members only site.

LMAO!!!!

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 7/17/2009 9:26 PM
I don't hate Indian or Harley. They rocked the world at the turn of the last century. Cyclone even came out with an overhead cam in 1917. Just don't wish to ride something that belongs in a museum. When comes time to twist the throttle, don't want noise, want chain, clutch, and tire problems. Plus, what direction you are aimed.


Asphalt, the greatest tattoo remover.


Posted By : Bonton - 7/19/2009 1:48 PM
Maybe in one of their reincarnations tjeu will get bot by a Japanese firm and they will englineer a nice Indlian for around 16K plus options.


Give me liberty or I will fight you to the death.   Le Bonton Rollie 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 8/8/2009 4:21 PM
Well--looks like the 09 ride has come to an end.
As I said--the bike went on back to its owner in Seattle the last week of June.
Story isn't completely over yet though.
Hey strips--come on back in a week or so and I'll show you a few more pictures.

Posted By : basshole - 8/8/2009 8:07 PM
I saw Indian get roasted in a mag article last month. Can't remember which one.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Harl Lee - 8/9/2009 10:51 PM
lol 

Posted By : Harl Lee - 8/9/2009 10:53 PM
Owning a New Indian is like

buying a couch made out of Yak Scrotum's just to have one.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 8/19/2009 9:00 PM
Bryan Harleys test ride of the 09 Stellican.
 
Be sure to check out the video and take a good look at the pics.
And can someone do it before they change them or take them down?
LMAO.
Remember my complaint on how cheap the leather on the Stellican bike is?
 
Well--take a look at Harleys test ride.
Looks like he starts off with all the saddle bag latches--then loses one during the ride.
That thing is just a flapping in the breeze.
And--looks like the seat is still that same old cheap ass leather.
Notice the now famous flying nun look?
That is funny as hell.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 8/19/2009 9:19 PM

Hey Bryan Harley.

Tried to figure out a way to contact you.

A lot more info on that bike if you want to give me a call.

 

That Stellican bike has some real issues -- Seems like every thing I reported just keeps getting verified.

By you--by Indian--by other riders.

 

And?

I'd disagree with your assesment of that wind screen.

Try riding it in the rain--you'll get more rain on your helmets face shield than the screen catches.

80 miles an hour and the turbulence behind that screen will try to suck your clothes off.

913-522-8374--I'd like to talk about problems past and problems future with that Stellican bike.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 8/19/2009 9:28 PM
Oh--by the way?
Those bags that are falling apart as it's being test ridden?
$2100.
The flying nun seat?
$1000
Looks you get from folks as you dump the contents of the bags in front of them at 80 on the interstae?
Priceless!!!
 
 
Hey Harley?
 
Did it puke any oil on your left pant leg as you were riding it?
Lot of folks I been talking to complain about that just like I did.
 

Posted By : Sid8d - 8/20/2009 4:16 AM
The local dealer here has sold a few 2009 Chiefs. One was delivered with leaky forks and transmission to the customer. Another Chief has been back in for unspecified issues a couple of times. The others I have not heard about. My Indian was bought in 2001 and has had more work done to it than I can recount. Seems as though there is a tough track record to beat in quality.

Posted By : martinjmpr - 8/20/2009 10:31 AM
At this point, I think the smartest thing Stellican could do with the Indian trademark they purchased is to produce an "Indian kit."
 
For around $5000 you get a pair of valanced fenders, some bottlecap valve covers, a set of Indian tank badges, and of course the Indian-head fender ornament/light to bolt onto your Heritage Softail. There you go, you've got your "Indian" and can now get parts and service at any HD dealer in the country.
 
Sure it's cheesy but it's a hell of a lot less painful than spending $30k on a bike that has the reliability and build quality of a Chinese scooter.  :p


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 8/20/2009 10:40 AM
All I know is my name is on the list at my local dealer for the 2010 Victory Cross Country. hop Dealer said the ordered a bunch of em and should be in house probably late October/early November. Can't wait to test ride that puppy.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 8/20/2009 12:33 PM
basshole said...
All I know is my name is on the list at my local dealer for the 2010 Victory Cross Country. hop
"Cross Country?"  Uh, is Victory getting into the "Adventure bike" market now?  shocked


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 8/20/2009 2:46 PM
martinjmpr said...
basshole said...

All I know is my name is on the list at my local dealer for the 2010 Victory Cross Country. shocked

Well maybe one day you'll figure it out. Then again, probably not.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Sid8d - 8/24/2009 8:45 PM
There appaears to already be a 2009 on EBAY!

Posted By : Budoka - 8/25/2009 1:44 PM

Maybe it will sit just long enough for all the fluids to leak out of it so shipping it won't be an issue for any carrier.turn


Same road, same wind in your face!


Posted By : basshole - 8/25/2009 4:56 PM
That dealers on CRACK if they think they're gonna get $35,500. for a used bike. rolleyes I also found it interesting how he made it sound like it was gonna be some sort of a collectors item being 1 of less than 400 2009 model bikes made. I mean didn't Indian come out and pound their chest saying they were going to produce a whopping 750 bikes for model year 2009? They made about half of that and can't even sell all of those??? lol lol They suck!


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 8/26/2009 8:18 AM
basshole said...
That dealers on CRACK if they think they're gonna get $35,500. for a used bike. rolleyes I also found it interesting how he made it sound like it was gonna be some sort of a collectors item being 1 of less than 400 2009 model bikes made. I mean didn't Indian come out and pound their chest saying they were going to produce a whopping 750 bikes for model year 2009? They made about half of that and can't even sell all of those??? lol lol They suck!

 
P.T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute." 
 
H.L. Mencken said "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." 
 
Apparently Indian is out to prove that Barnum and Mencken were right.  :p


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 8/26/2009 9:11 AM
martinjmpr said...
basshole said...

That dealers on CRACK if they think they're gonna get $35,500. for a used bike. :p



You do have a point!! Plus the dealers in Kansas.. lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 8/26/2009 11:11 AM
Hey, being two years in the running, this thread may outlast Indian MC!


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : basshole - 8/26/2009 11:52 AM
CaddmannQ said...
Hey, being two years in the running, this thread may outlast Indian MC!

It certainly will need less repairs than the Indian MoCo. lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 8/26/2009 8:19 PM
CaddmannQ said...
Hey, being two years in the running, this thread may outlast Indian MC!

Wow, I can't believe it's been going that long! 
 
Funny, I went back to the early posts in this thread.  The Stellican cheerleaders sure were cocky back then! 
 
They posted 5 or 10 times and then, mysteriously, vanished into thin air.  :p   I'm sure their beloved brand will soon join them in the "where are they now?" pages. 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 8/26/2009 9:20 PM
It is interesting to think where all the cheerleaders might have gone.
As for the life yet left to Stellican?
1 year tops.
Too many riders reporting things I reported.
Thank you Motorcycle USA for alowing both sides of the story to come into the light.
And?
The story continues to unfold.
Posting my phone number on here led to some interesting results.
Just got a phone Call last week from another 9 rider.
He confirms my problems--He is experiencing a lot of them also.

Me?
I'm still thinking Indian has a chance at coming back.
Gonna be a while--and it will never be what it was--but it can always find a place in America if it is done with respect.
I'm a believer in karma.
You're gonna get back what you give.
Stellcan never tried to honor--they just saw a chance at a quick buck.

I'll keep you guys updated -- gonna be some interesting news coming along shortly.
Ride Safe--and always honor the legend of Indian.

Posted By : martinjmpr - 8/27/2009 6:47 AM
KC:  I'm not sure I'd call it Karma, to me it just seems more like laziness.  Stellican thought a famous name would be all he needed to sell a mediocre bike at an inflated price. 
 
It's like this:  Suppose someone bought the rights to the name of a well known rock band.  Suppose they even bought all the rock band's instruments. 
 
Now that's great, but if they have no talent, no ability, and no creativity, then it doesn't matter how "legendary" their names are.  It doesn't matter that they might play the same instruments and mimic the appearance of the band whose name they're using, if their music sucks, nobody's going to buy it. 
 
And if, because of their legendary name, they charged people $500 a ticket to see them, and they still couldn't play worth crap, they'd be a complete failure. 
 
The essence of a musical group is the music, and the essence of a motorcycle company is the motorcycle, not the name. 
 
As I said a couple of years ago (!) regarding Indian:  The patient is dead.  It's time to stop performing CPR and just bury him. 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : norton - 8/27/2009 8:42 AM
martinjmpr said...
As I said a couple of years ago (!) regarding Indian:  The patient is dead.  It's time to stop performing CPR and just bury him. 

I agree.
3 Strikes and you're Out.
 
Times have changed and left Indian Motorcycles behind.  

Posted By : basshole - 8/27/2009 10:08 AM
It's funny how NO ONE has come out and said that the new Indian is a "must have" bike but everyone has come out and said it's drastically over priced. Right about now I'd be firing my marketing firm.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 8/27/2009 10:15 AM
The sad thing is that if they'd been built by in Korea, they'd probably be succeding. They'd be half the price and better quality, and people that wanted to rub HD's nose in the dirt would be buying them like cupcakes.

Maybe.

At least that's my imagination of the situation.

As for the Stellican guys, they're investors first and motorcyclists maybe third or fourth. Would they even know if they were building an inferior product?

Probably not.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : basshole - 8/27/2009 12:00 PM
I love the look of this bike. But, I'll bet my bottom dollar that this thing is priced well into the stratosphere. It honestly looks like it could fetch 13-15k and sell well at that price point. But Stellican acts like they wanna hit a home run with every bike they sell rather than get product into the market place. I'll bet it lists for 29-34k




Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : basshole - 8/27/2009 12:36 PM
Just found the 2010 pricing on their website.
Dark Horse 28k
Bomber 31k

That's base price freaked


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 8/27/2009 1:17 PM
Yikes! A cruiserbike is not supposed to sell for as much as a new truck.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : EdbearNZ - 8/27/2009 7:11 PM
CaddmannQ said...
The sad thing is that if they'd been built by in Korea, they'd probably be succeding. They'd be half the price and better quality, and people that wanted to rub HD's nose in the dirt would be buying them like cupcakes.

Maybe.

At least that's my imagination of the situation.

As for the Stellican guys, they're investors first and motorcyclists maybe third or fourth. Would they even know if they were building an inferior product?

Probably not.

Maybe they should get the Koreans to pop over and help them build it? Reckon the first thing they'd do is overhaul the factory then redesign the motor.
I think most people have a soft-spot for the Indian brand and it would be a shame for it to go down ignominiously into history this way. Harley is really having to work hard to maintain their spot against better bikes and when you look at what they have done, (and spent), to remain in the market and relevant, it shows how far behind Stellican are if they want to have any chance of surviving.
The comparo of the latest Electra Glide with the Kawasaki Voyager shows they are learning and putting forth real efforts. I still don't know how long they can keep an air-cooled engine competitive though.


Dyslexics Have More Nuf.


Posted By : BikesTrikes4EVER - 8/28/2009 8:45 PM
Well...all I have to add:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4 freaked


When starting and completing a project, here's something to remember..."I can't" really means "I won't"!


Posted By : freebird - 9/2/2009 3:07 PM
try again...

Post Edited (freebird) : 9/2/2009 10:12:45 PM GMT


Posted By : aogop - 9/2/2009 3:09 PM
Wow, it's been almost a year since I have checked this forum and this thread is still alive...


'06 DL1000


Posted By : freebird - 9/2/2009 3:12 PM
No modern engineer tasked with building a motorcycle would design a bulky low-tech 45-deg twin-cylinder engine and bolt it to a bike that weighed 900-pounds. A Harley is clunky and old-tech. Engineering-wise, it's a 1950s motorcycle. Even the styling mimics a 1950s motorcycle. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that; lots of people love bikes like the retro-styled Triumph Thruxton and most people appreciate Harleys for what they are.

The question is: do we want or need companies making alternative versions of the retro-styled Truimph Thruxton or alternative versions of the Harley? For example, the only reason Honda cruisers have have a V-shaped twin-cylinder engine is because it mimics the Harley engine. If a Honda engineer was told to design a 100-cubic.inch (1600cc) engine he wouldn't think, "How about two cylinders with each cylinder a whopping 800cc's!" If he was absolutely forced to build a monster twin-cylinder it would most likely be a 90-degree L-twin not a Harley-esque 45-degree-V. Design and engineering-wise, Japanese cruisers are little more than imitation Harleys or Harley wannabees. Even the cruisers that are mechanically superior to a Harley - they are still wannabees. They look the way they look and have the engines they have because they want to imitate a Harley. Notable cruiser exceptions would be the VMax and Grizo.

Let Harley build the Harleys.

So Stelican shows up and builds... what? A modern version of the Indian Scout 500 with a 60-horsepower engine and a lightweight aluminum frame? No. A completely new and innovative motorcycle with a longitudinally-mounted inline four-cylinder engine like the Indain Four? No. They build an imitation of a Gilroy Indian which was itself an imitation of a Harley. Seriously, good riddance. I hope Stelican goes out of business like Excelsior-Henderson (they also made imitation Harleys using a revived iconic American motorcycle brand). We don't need more imitations and wannabees with or without swoopy fender flares. Let the Chinese will buy the Indian motorcycle name. They can slap the "iconic name" on their junk scooters and bicycles like they do with Schwinn or maybe sell Indian Motorcycle poison toothpaste.

Post Edited (freebird) : 9/2/2009 10:15:54 PM GMT


Posted By : Sid8d - 9/3/2009 5:10 AM
Now do not get me wrong, I do love Indians. The Gilroy bikes do it for me. Yes, I have owned a Kawasaki and never EVER gave me a problem. It is just the look of the Indian and the ride of it that I love.
Someone made a great point: Stellican saw the name as a chance to make money PERIOD. It was not purchased for love of the brand or even the love of motorcycles! The venture was doomed before it ever began. A company has to have heart first and the quality will come through the passion. I hope that one day the brand will rise to what it once was-that would mean INNOVATION as many of you have suggested. This place is alright. Appreciate the varrying views.

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/3/2009 3:06 PM
freebird said...
No modern engineer tasked with building a motorcycle would design a bulky low-tech 45-deg twin-cylinder engine ...the only reason Honda cruisers have have a V-shaped twin-cylinder engine is because it mimics the Harley engine. ...
You don't ask why the engineers designed a Harley the way they did, and there were definate reasons, though not all of them revolved around torque/horsepower.
 
There's no reason why an engine of that basic design can't be a good engine, if the quality control is good and the minute details are attended to. IMO, HD falls flat on that count.
 
I've seen a lot of folks brag about how reliable their new HD is, and compared to older HD's they usually are; but I doubt they are as reliable as most of the big-4 products, even now, and for every guy that brags of HD reliability another will bemoan it. I think their focus on style, finish, paint, and chrome sells bikes, but their lack of focus on engines ruins all of that in the end.
 
Now I'm a flag-waving patriotic American, and I wish HD could get it together. I know they want it and I can see them trying, but they're going about it wrong. so is Indian.
 
For instance V-Rod should have been its own company. A subsidiary of HD, but seperate from it, with no HD logos on it anywhere, and sold through V-Rod dealers.
By lashing the V-Rod to the traditional HDs, they killed it off at birth. It's a different dream altogether, and every good salesman will tell you that what they really sell is dreams.
 
I see Indian making the same mistakes as HD makes. Not the fact that they make retro-looking bikes though. Those designs represent the Golden Age Of Motoring to the American public. A time when things were made of real steel and plastic was not just scorned but virtually unheard of. The American public would eat that stuff up.
 
The problem isn't the retro-styled-cruiser paradigm, but the lack of focus on quality control of the mechanicals, and the small mechanical details.
 
The guys that bought Indian can understand the first part. Clearly that's why they invested.
 
But the total importance of the second part escapes them, as is evident by the rash of complaints with their product.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : YodaMage - 9/4/2009 10:56 PM
Cars....small displacement high revving concepts with better economy to bolster crazy HP numbers (and lower weight as a handling bonus) have taken over. German concept with Jap execution killed off the 'Viper' centric American big displacement model.

Bikes....hmmm, maybe Western makers should open their eyes before its too late?

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/5/2009 8:36 AM
Taken over? I look around me and I don't see that it's happened here. American boys still dream of Vipers and Corvettes.

Salesmen don't sell cars and motorcycles. They sell dreams. Customers don't buy cars and motorcycles. They buy dreams.

If you don't believe this is true (for the great majority of sales) just look rationally at what people are driving, and even more what they drool over and talk of buying. The dream-purchase flies in the face of rationality.

Sportbikes that do 200 MPH are just as much a dream purchase as a 900 lb rolling showboat covered in chrome, or a raked out custom covered in candy apple flames. Clearly the Viper fits into this paradigm.

People are not rational creatures when it comes to buying things; so no matter what the engineers and manufacturers can create in the way of techonological advancement, it's what they can sell that determines what they will market.

A big part of the decline in US companies isn't due to lack of demand (for the dream) as much as it is due to a decline in quality control and inflated cost of manufacturing in this country due to the IAW. It appears that Indian is right in line to go down that tube.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : YodaMage - 9/5/2009 8:33 PM
I'm not sure I agree with you at all Cad. American boys in my neck of the woods (the North East US, though I spend a great deal of time in FL as well) dream of Nissan GT-R, 370 Z, Infiniti G37, BMW M series, Audi S5, Impreza, Evo, etc... I owned a Vette....but for the money would I ever seriously consider one again? Over some of the likes just mentioned?

http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-08/07-14-08page-Nissan-GT-R-vs-Porsche-GT2-vs-Viper-SRT-10-vs-Corvette-Z06.htm

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/5/2009 10:33 PM
I understand, but that is an eclectic bunch there.

Joe Six-pack still wants Corvettes and vipers.

He just can't afford them.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : basshole - 9/8/2009 11:21 AM
Budoka said...
In the world of dream cars, the C6 Corvette is a veritable 'bargain' in comparrison to nearly every comparable performance machine made. In a market where Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc all run well into 6 digit pricing and various multiples thereof, the six speed manual 'Vette is extremely affordable at 50 large. C6 'Vettes run circles around all the other American made dream beasts, and hold their own against all but the most exotic of supercars. Plus a C6 is capable of well over 30 mpg (US) on the highway; try that in a Ferrari. Even Jeremy from Top Gear admits the C6 'Vette is bargain AND a great car, and he loathes American iron.

And this is relevant to the topic on this thread how?


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : Budoka - 9/8/2009 1:15 PM
Sorry gang! First the Wx dumped on me this weekend spoiling everything, and then the Mrs dumped on me for being in the dumps... I just deleted my babble. I'll try and stay better connected in the futureredface


Same road, same wind in your face!


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/24/2009 8:08 PM
Well the 09 Road Master I was riding has gone home to the factory in Kings Mountain (once again).
It was in a low speed lay down shortly after I sent it home to its owner in Washington.
The bike tried to dump me 3 times in corners, and I always managed to get lucky enough to prevent it from happening.
Unfortunately the owner of the bike was not so lucky and laid it down in a low speed corner.
No injuries that I know of but the bike sustained some minor damage.

While I was helping to strip the damaged parts off for replacement we noticed the lug on the down tube had been broken off.
Some might say it was caused by the accident--and normally I MIGHT agree.
We did a little research though and found the weld on the lug is--well--lacking to say the least.
After checking the call out sheets from the Gilroy era bikes we found that the lug should have been coped--and had a 1/4 inch weld around it.
The lug on the 09 had (approximately) a 1/16th inch weld around it--and that is being generous.
The weld looks to be a tack--with the final weld not layed on.
Worm hole weld--and plenty of rust under and through the bead.

The owner of the bike will no longer discuss the issues or the details of its return to Kings Mountain so I'll assume there are some legal issues involved.

Question here is?
Does the lug on that down tube prevent oversteering the bike?
Or is it just there to prevent damage to the tanks?
Indian has assured me it is only there to prevent damage to the tanks, and the steering geometry would not be affected by a broken lug.
Any opinions?

Personally I feel like that lug might have been broken while I was rding the bike.
It tried to lay me down 3 times and I always kind of thought I was just being a little agressive.
3rd time it scared the crap out of me to the point I rode back to the spot to see if I'd hit an oil spot or wet spot--nope--nothing.

And--as always--I can provide pictures if you all like.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/24/2009 8:11 PM
Almost forgot.
I visited the dealership we bought the bike from in Paducah, Kentucky.
The dealership is closing its doors.
No more Indians being sold in Kentucky.

I was told the bikes were going to be transferred to another facility.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/24/2009 8:13 PM
Where are all those true Indian fans when I need 'em?

Posted By : EdbearNZ - 9/25/2009 2:35 AM
This thread is likely to go on as long as Indian itself...


Dyslexics Have More Nuf.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/25/2009 5:23 AM
Yep--it probably will go on as long as the current version of Indian.
Take a look at the length of this thread.
Probably the longest running in the history of this board.
INDIAN carries some kind of magic with it.
Gilroy was a legitimate attempt at an Indian Ressurection.
They did a lot wrong--and could have done a lot more in bringing Indian back to being something original.
BUT--Gilroy did come out with their own version. (albeit lacking in innovation)
Stellican?
Well--they just decided to go cheap--and down and dirty.
Copied an immitation.
Maybe when they do go tits up someone else will be able to do it some justice.
Hell--there is already a legitimate successor to the Indian name out there making motorcycles.
KIWI!
Indian lives in the KIWI bikes.

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/25/2009 8:04 AM
KC, when you say it "tried to lay you down", do you mean the rear tire washed out from under you?

This would be a good indication of poor suspension tuning or an overly flexible frame, but not a thing to do with the "lug" (steering stop is what I believe you mean) being broken. If the weld was that poor, it probably just cracked when the forks flopped over while parking the bike.

Now, about the welding, I'd certainly be concerned about all the other welding on the bike after seeing that stop crack off.

Too bad Stellican didn't hire some real engineers to run their production line. Brokers and bankers and investors can not build a motorcycle, nor are they qualified to determine who can.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/25/2009 10:27 AM
Caddmann;
Yep--the rear tire washed out from under me.
Everyone has felt it tight in a turn.
First two times were a little more than usual.
Third time it felt like it washed a damn foot.
Didn't just slip--it felt like it was totally gone.
I was pretty sure it wasn't going to recover.
The suspension is tuned to Kintgs Mountain specs--and to Gilroy specs.
I'm very familiar with that tuning--makes all the difference on these bikes.
As for the frame being overly flexible?
Well--to really appreciate this frame you would have to see a Gilroy frame stripped down.
KM bikes are a copy of the Gilroy frame.
These frames are WAY over built--it's amazing to see one bare.
Reminds you of a '50s MAC truck or something.

Yes--by lug I do mean steering stop.
And--yes I'm convinced from looking at the weld that it could be broken just by being aggressive with the bars while stopped.
A few good thumps and I'm feeling like it would be gone.
Just not much bead on it.
I'll try to get some pics posted of the damage that was done to the bike--and the fork stop lug.

Two things concern me on that stop breaking.
1--oversteering (which seems to be a 50/50 deal from the folks I talk with.
2--Rupturing the tanks in a substantial crash.
The laydown the bike had was very low speed.
The tanks were not ruptured but they had a hell of a dent in them.
I'm kind of thinking when you lay a bike down you got other things to worry about besides the possibility of gas getting out of the tanks.

Posted By : basshole - 9/25/2009 1:58 PM
KC Cheef said...
Caddmann;
Yep--the rear tire washed out from under me.
Everyone has felt it tight in a turn.
First two times were a little more than usual.
Third time it felt like it washed a damn foot.
Didn't just slip--it felt like it was totally gone.
I was pretty sure it wasn't going to recover.
The suspension is tuned to Kintgs Mountain specs--and to Gilroy specs.
I'm very familiar with that tuning--makes all the difference on these bikes.
As for the frame being overly flexible?
Well--to really appreciate this frame you would have to see a Gilroy frame stripped down.
KM bikes are a copy of the Gilroy frame.
These frames are WAY over built--it's amazing to see one bare.
Reminds you of a '50s MAC truck or something.

Yes--by lug I do mean steering stop.
And--yes I'm convinced from looking at the weld that it could be broken just by being aggressive with the bars while stopped.
A few good thumps and I'm feeling like it would be gone.
Just not much bead on it.
I'll try to get some pics posted of the damage that was done to the bike--and the fork stop lug.

Two things concern me on that stop breaking.
1--oversteering (which seems to be a 50/50 deal from the folks I talk with.
2--Rupturing the tanks in a substantial crash.
The laydown the bike had was very low speed.
The tanks were not ruptured but they had a hell of a dent in them.
I'm kind of thinking when you lay a bike down you got other things to worry about besides the possibility of gas getting out of the tanks.


Dude did you go down??? smhair


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/25/2009 7:10 PM
Nope--it wasn't me.
I managed to get the bike upright before it ate asphalt.
It was the owner that went down.
Funny thing is?
The night before he went down we talked on the phone for about 30 minutes, and I warned him that the bike would occassionally do the slip in corners.
The bike also has issues with decellaration.
You'll idle down going into a corner--think things are where you want them to be RPM wise, and just when you don't want it to happen the engine will drop another 4 or 500 revs on you.
Not good.
Indian always assured me that the bike was "learning" my riding style.
Almost 9000 miles later it was still learning.
I've been in touch with a few other riders that make the same complaint.

Posted By : EdbearNZ - 9/25/2009 7:17 PM
"Learning your riding style...!!!???" Are they serious????? freaked


Dyslexics Have More Nuf.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/25/2009 7:25 PM
Hey Caddmann.
Just to be clear?
I know the feeling you're talking about when you say wash out from under you.
It's a feeling you get used to.
Kind of a slip that warns you to be a little cautious and not be pushing too much farther.
I'm thinking most riders have felt it.
What I'm talking about is almost like the whole tire coming up and out of contact.
It doesn't -- but you'd swear it was.
I have around 80 thousand miles on 5 or 6 Gilroy chiefs, and I like to push them along.
NEVER had one do to me what the Stellican bike did to me and tried to do to me.
I think that is why it almost got me those three times--I just didn't want to think it was the bike.
First two times I just rode off.
The third time it was so close I turned around and went back just to be sure there wasn't an oil slick or water or a bump I didn't feel.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/25/2009 7:32 PM
Oh--forgot.
As an addendum?
Me and the owner of the bike had to REINFORCE the importance of tuning that suspension to the Kings Mountain folks.
I stopped at an Indian Dealership to fine tune it a little on the way home from Kings Mountain when I picked the bike up after it had its porous cases and oil pump replaced.
The AUTHORIZED INDIAN DEALERSHIP didn't have a wrench to adjust the shock with.
They used a set of water pump pliers and dinged up the tuning nuts.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/25/2009 7:48 PM
Yes--they are--or were telling me the bike was "learning' my riding style.
They also told me riding with the oil light on was OK.
I could smell the bike getting hot--feel the bike getting hot--and hear it getting hot.
That was while the bike still had the porous cases and bad oil pump.
The GM of Indian still swears to this day that the light was on because of a bad "splash sensor" whatever that might be.

Course they also told me that the post I made on here recently about the saddle bag latches being gone on the bike Bryan Harley test rode in Sturgis was not true.
Swore it right up to the day I sent the pictures to the Kings Mountain.
Then they graciously conceded that they MIGHT be able to see why I would come to the conclusion that the clasps MIGHT be missing.
Let me see--I reported the latch failure to the factory 6 months ago after following the owner of the bike down I-70 and having the latch fail right in front of my eyes and dump the contents of the bag into the road in front of me.
Yep--I MIGHT have come to the conclusion that the bike Bryan Harley test rode MIGHT have had those cheap latches fail also.
I'll admit--the PICTURES of the flaps blowing in the wind might have helped convince me that indian isn't likely to take care of the problem anytime soon

Course they also told me that it was RIDICULOUS to think tightening up the shock stopped the blow by out the air breather.
Since then I've learned that another dealership followed the advice and stopped another bike from puking oil out the breather.
Wonder where they came up with that idea.

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/25/2009 8:29 PM
This just sounds more and more like the typical Top-Down management style company modeled after our own government. Deny everything. Admit nothing. Never give a straight answer even when you know the truth and know it won't hurt you. Think of the profits before reputation, and expediency before quality. Honesty is an unafordable luxury. I've worked for some places like that. It was never easy for the engineers to tolerate.

I remember telling a guy in management (a purchasing agent & non-engineer): "You don't want to use this primer. You really don't."
"Why not?" he asked.
"It's not the right stuff for this application." said I.
"Nonsense! This is the best you can buy." says he.
"It's great stuff. It's just the wrong stuff."
"But I asked and this is the most expensive they make." says he.
"Maybe so, but it's not the right application for this. You don't want a surfacer. You want a sealer. The product is already well surfaced." said I.
"Well the vendor said I should buy this." says he.
"The vendor sells sandpaper too." says I.

We went around like this for 30 minutes and he would not relent. He sent the stuff into production, and our guys spent another hour per unit between finish sanding pre-coated metal that only needed a sealer coat before painting, and cleaning their equipment repeatedly as the solids in the surfacer plugged them up.

After the production run, management was not happy at the loss of profits. It was a short run and not much profit in it to begin with.

After getting reamed over the debacle the culprit came to me screaming: "Why did we use that stuff!"
"You bought it." I said.
"Well why didn't you tell me this would happen?"
"I tried about ten times. I tried to explain it to you."
"Well next time try harder!" was the idiot's final reply.

This is probably the kind of shit going on at Stellican. They either don't know what to do, or they just don't listen to the people who do know.

++++++++++++++++++++

BTW, one of the nice things about the Nomad is it has a slipper clutch that limits any really sudden engine braking. It sounds like maybe that Indian slipped sideways because the rear tire slowed unexpectedly due to a glitch in the fueling.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/26/2009 10:00 AM
My take on the problems at Indian (continued.)
 
The guys who are trying to revive Indian are wealthy investors. People with that much money are used to dictating and rarely take advice well, even from the people they hire to give it too them. That is a major roadblock to success.
 
These guys have a dream, but their real dream is not "reviving Indian no matter what it takes". Their real dream is reviving Indian with the least personal effort and expense, and making a huge profit in the deal. (Heavy emphasis on the making profit part.) That's what investors do. They use money to make money, in whatever manner they deem suits their fancy & has a likely chance of success.
 
The other part is that they --the Stellican investors, (being the Ivy League Types that they are)--likely see themselves catering to the legendary "Gentleman Motorist and Sportsman". That is, to people for whom money is no object and riding is a mere afterthought to actual ownership of yet another motorized Icon in their impressive collection; and to whom motoring is a game rather than a serious form of hobby, industry, travel and transportation.
 
The real serious-mileage riders, to whom riding is the thing above all things, and to whom devotion to the sport often requires scraping together of every available dollar (or even--my God! financing) to afford such an expensive and exclusive machine; well those riders are the real testers and provers of machinery--years after the factory does its meager testing. Those riders will be the success or failure of Indian.
 
Those riders will not scrimp and save and hock their own kids to own an inferior machine, no matter what the legendary name on the tank nor the inflated status of ownership means.
 
Unless it's a Harley of course.  smilewinkgrin (Kidding! I'm just kidding!)
 
But in spite of the promisses of superior design & quality, the new Indian seems to be making the Harley look better instead of worse. I see Indian bleeding money out the ears until they either let the people who know how to build motorcycles run the company, or the investors get bored & discouraged and sell it off as dunnage.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : basshole - 9/26/2009 10:46 AM
So it's becoming clearer and clearer all the time that:
A. The "New Indian" is really the "New Greedy Indian"
B. The product is poor at best and seems to be more dangerous than anything else.
C. Only a fool would buy one at this point in time. Buyer Beware!
D. They will cease operations by 12/31/10.


Side Note: Deep pocket investors will ONLY invest as long as their deep pockets keep getting DEEPER, and not SHALLOWER. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those investor start pulling funding by the end of the year.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/26/2009 10:56 AM
Yeah, but anything could happen.

They could have a change of heart.

They could finally listen to someone that convinces them.

The economy could have a sudden rebound.

Some famous celebrities could buy one and rave about it, increasing sales.

The quality could improve.

Obama could give them bail-out money.

Indian may yet survive this. Chances look slim, but chances DO exist.

Personally I hope they do survive. It would say something about the importance of our sport to people and to the world.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 9/26/2009 5:56 PM
GeoffG said...
jboland said...
...they should introduce a longitudally mounted in-line four cruiser. That would draw heavily on Indian heritage while at the same time be "different" from Harley and Victory.

Exactly my thinking when I suggested the same in my first post. The longitudinal inline four is an iconic American design, as much so as the 45 degree V-twin. Definitely different--which is what the market needs IMO, not just another "cookie-cutter" big twin cruiser...

The rear cylinder heated up like a beeoch.


Asphalt the greatest tattoo remover.


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/26/2009 10:22 PM
She was a real land-yacht though. ;-)


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 9/27/2009 5:53 AM
Now I really feel old. The day when the Bonnie was king and the Knuckle Head was the head snapper.


Asphalt the greatest tattoo remover.


Posted By : KC Cheef - 9/27/2009 11:29 AM
Triumph Guy.
The rear cylinder problem is part fact--and a big part myth.
Supposed to be a fix out there for those that had the problem.
Look up Herb Ottaway on the net.
6 cylinder in line Indian that he made from 2 4's.
I've actually seen that bike and the job he did joining the cases is amazing.
You CANNOT see where they were joined together.
That bike lives in Wichita, Kansas with Herbs Grandson.

Post Edited (KC Cheef) : 9/27/2009 6:35:18 PM GMT


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 9/27/2009 4:56 PM
Looks like an interesting bike to ride in the twisties.
That one has the "Chummy" seat. You could get two people on it if they were real friendly. ;-)


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 9/28/2009 7:19 AM
CaddmannQ said...
My take on the problems at Indian (continued.)
 
The guys who are trying to revive Indian are wealthy investors. People with that much money are used to dictating and rarely take advice well, even from the people they hire to give it too them. That is a major roadblock to success.
 
These guys have a dream, but their real dream is not "reviving Indian no matter what it takes". Their real dream is reviving Indian with the least personal effort and expense, and making a huge profit in the deal. (Heavy emphasis on the making profit part.) That's what investors do. They use money to make money, in whatever manner they deem suits their fancy & has a likely chance of success...
Cadd, I think this analysis is spot-on. 
 
In fact, I would take it a step further.  Not only were the Stellican investors arrogant in thinking that all they had to do was buy the rights to the Indian name (at fire-sale prices following the bankruptcy of Gilroy,) but their business plan was built up on a foundation of a huge dose of contempt for the very people who would buy their bikes! 
 
They looked at the cruiser boom of the mid-90s, when having an HD dealership was like having a license to print money, and they said to themselves "those stupid bikers will pay big bucks for something just because it has a classic name on the tank!" (completely ignoring the fact that HD itself nearly failed in the 70's and made a huge improvement in quality in the 1980's.)   
 
Then, after they bought the rights, they did as you described above, cut every corner, cheapened every part, and all the while issued bombastic press releases about how great they were. 
 
When the champagne-branded ad campaign and the $900 chinese made leather jackets hit the market, it just reinforced the fact that they don't know a damn thing about the people who actually buy (and ride) motorcycles. 
 
Arrogance, incomepetence, greed, and contempt for their customers.  I'm not a "business guy" but that doesn't sound like a winning combination to me. 
 
I think it's time Indian died, for good.  It's a tainted brand.  At this point I'd put $10k on a new Ural before I'd even consider an Indian (not that I am, or ever will be, in Indian's target demographic anyway.) 
 
 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 10/1/2009 4:37 PM
Indian is trying to revive old school rides. The new Triumphs are a wonderful machine but not enough hp for this old Indian rider. If it can't make 200 hp at middle rpm on pump gas I will ride the ugliest machine on Earth.


Asphalt the greatest tattoo remover.


Posted By : mjdart - 10/2/2009 10:36 AM
I'd like Indian to do well and prosper, any US company making a product as neat as an Indian Motorcycle & employing some Americans is doing something right.

This is from a friend who has some insider ties @ Kings Mountain.

Stephen Julius confirmed it in the November Cycle World article: that "if things go well" for Indian
(and twice this week, I have heard from a couple of different sources, that sales have recently soared. Deep sighs of relief all around.)
that there will be a new Indian four cylinder(!!!), which will be the new marque flagship.

Then there's this version from the UK

http://www.indian-uk.com/_images/picclassic_large.jpg


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : Budoka - 10/2/2009 11:18 AM
Triumph Guy said...
Indian is trying to revive old school rides. The new Triumphs are a wonderful machine but not enough hp for this old Indian rider. If it can't make 200 hp at middle rpm on pump gas I will ride the ugliest machine on Earth.

OK. Let's say this is a real bike you are talking about here (never mind if it's and Indian). 200 hp at mid rpm? Even with twin hairdryers, or a full on blower and nos you'd still need a pile of revs to generate that kind of output. All the current hyperbikes don't make 200 hp at 12,000 rpm, never mind in the mid range. Sounds a bit remeniscent of that 180 hp @1/4 discussion we had a few weeks back (Around the Campfire). confusedlol


Same road, same wind in your face!


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 10/3/2009 5:50 AM
Budoka said...
Triumph Guy said...

Indian is trying to revive old school rides. The new Triumphs are a wonderful machine but not enough hp for this old Indian rider. If it can't make 200 hp at middle rpm on pump gas I will ride the ugliest machine on Earth.


OK. Let's say this is a real bike you are talking about here (never mind if it's and Indian). 200 hp at mid rpm? Even with twin hairdryers, or a full on blower and nos you'd still need a pile of revs to generate that kind of output. All the current hyperbikes don't make 200 hp at 12,000 rpm, never mind in the mid range. Sounds a bit remeniscent of that 180 hp @1/4 discussion we had a few weeks back (Around the Campfire). confused lol
Twin turbos make 710 hp, the 14 only has a Turbonetics T3/4 with 55 scroll. It is has a 8" swing arm, strapped an lowered, Full mapp by PCIII, tuned by Salt Lake Motor Sports. It is slow by drag race standards, only ran a 9.45 @ 150.6 Mph. This is a street/road bike with 35,000 miles. Makes 200 hp at 7K and 250 hp at 10-11K. Just a bit faster than the scooter.


Asphalt the greatest tattoo remover.


Posted By : Budoka - 10/3/2009 7:17 AM
Point made TG. Ya coulda told us earlier though:-)


Same road, same wind in your face!


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/3/2009 1:45 PM
mjdart said...
I'd like Indian to do well and prosper, any US company making a product as neat as an Indian Motorcycle & employing some Americans is doing something right.

This is from a friend who has some insider ties @ Kings Mountain.

Stephen Julius confirmed it in the November Cycle World article: that "if things go well" for Indian
(and twice this week, I have heard from a couple of different sources, that sales have recently soared. Deep sighs of relief all around.)
that there will be a new Indian four cylinder(!!!), which will be the new marque flagship.

Then there's this version from the UK

http://www.indian-uk.com/_images/picclassic_large.jpg


Welcome to the Great Stellican Indian Debate mjdart.
Your good friend with insider ties to Kings Mountain?
Who might that be?
Everyone I know has "insider ties" to Kings Mountain.
Kings Mountain has more "leaks" than the Titanic.
I have more than a few friends on the Mountain, and no one I know wants to predict an Indian 4.
I do know of one dealership that recently closed, and another one that would REALLY like to figure a way to get out of what he got left withwhen his partner pulled up stakes.
I also know another dealership who lost their GM recently.

Only prediction I'd make is that eventually--maybe Stellican will reimburse me for the $160 tow I had to have last summer.
I called the IRG--Indian Riders Group and they had never heard of me or the VIN on the motorcycle even though we were registered members.
Paid for it myself.
Informed Indian and was told the check was on the way.
That was in July and I'm still waiting.

Could you ask you friend to do a little checking on that $160 for me?

Posted By : Triumph Guy - 10/3/2009 1:56 PM
Budoka said...
Point made TG. Ya coulda told us earlier though :-)
I lay the blame on the Canada and their Whiskey. Never should have posted that. It was a flaming, arrogant post. My 47 Chief was dead reliable. Had to remove the baffles and reverse the the rod like Harley to lube the pistons rings. Many times I'm not a good person.


Asphalt the greatest tattoo remover.


Posted By : Budoka - 10/3/2009 2:48 PM
The Devil Grog has gotten better men than you or I, TG! Besides I'm so perfect I can't hardly stand myself. Remember to err is human; to really frig things up requires a computer.:p


Same road, same wind in your face!


Posted By : louemc - 10/3/2009 2:55 PM
And Just when I thought things were weird as they could get, They got weirder lol


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 10/3/2009 3:30 PM
louemc said...
And Just when I thought things were weird as they could get, They got weirder lol
You might a whipper snapper, but you of all people are Abby Normal. The fact is that none of us in this forum are normal, I would rather ride a bicycle than take the bus.


Asphalt the greatest tattoo remover.


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/3/2009 7:44 PM
Budoka said... Remember to err is human; to really frig things up requires a computer...
....And alcohol. devil


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : Triumph Guy - 10/3/2009 9:53 PM
The 14 is real, not so sure about myself. I have been riding motorcycles for 46 years. Every day that I ride feels like it could be the last. So many close calls. I will take the MSF course again next year. The box is the biggest challenge.


Asphalt the greatest tattoo remover.


Posted By : louemc - 10/4/2009 10:17 AM
CaddmannQ said...
Yeah, but anything could happen.

They could have a change of heart.

They could finally listen to someone that convinces them.

The economy could have a sudden rebound.

Some famous celebrities could buy one and rave about it, increasing sales.

The quality could improve.

Obama could give them bail-out money.

Indian may yet survive this. Chances look slim, but chances DO exist.

Personally I hope they do survive. It would say something about the importance of our sport to people and to the world.

 
The first Seven items... could include one more... Hell freezing over.
 
Last item?  some other brand, will do it, if it gets done.


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/4/2009 10:24 AM
Yes, and I left out, "They could get bought up by the Chinese."


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : mjdart - 10/4/2009 2:01 PM
What going on at Kings Mountain - Americans working to produce a something we all love
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory5.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory7.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory6.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory8.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory2.jpg[/IMG]


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/4/2009 3:25 PM
Can't open your pictures mjdart.
You seem awful excited about Kings Mountain.
Were you up there or are those stock pics off the internet.
IF you happen to talk to one of the men on the Mountain could you mention my $160?

Yep-Americans making them for the most part.
But the parts come from all over the world.
Mostly from the far off lands.

Posted By : Budoka - 10/4/2009 5:21 PM
I'm all for restoring a venerable name/marque whatever, but we should all be conscious of the fact that Indian needs to succeed on the basis of merit, not just nostalgia.


Same road, same wind in your face!


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/4/2009 6:22 PM

Lessee what mjdart's photos really are, hey?

Hmmm... Just stock publicity shots from some marketing outfit and MC mag photos.

*YAWN*


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : basshole - 10/4/2009 8:07 PM
And for a mere 35k you too can be part of an image. I mean the bikes suck but ahhh, the image................yeah baby!!!


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : mjdart - 10/5/2009 2:25 AM
Lessee what mjdart's photos really are, hey?

Hmmm... Just stock publicity shots from some marketing outfit and MC mag photos.

*YAWN*

Why didn't you show the other photos showing the guys who are assembling the bikes, and not just the corporate photos.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory4.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory7.jpg

Engine assembly

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdart/Indian%20Motorcycles/Indian%20Motorcycle%20Factory/TheIndianMotorcycleFactory5.jpg


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/5/2009 5:54 AM
Well?
Those are still stock photos from some magazine.
And--that is not engine assembly.
That looks to be bike assembly.
There are no actual photos around that I know of of an engine being assembled in that plant.
My money would have to say those engines are assembled elsewhere and shipped in.
Take a look at the assembly table out in the middle of the factory and you''ll see why I would come to that conclusion.

mjdart.
DID you buy one or are you just cheer leading?

Posted By : mjdart - 10/5/2009 6:36 AM
I own a 2009 Chief Vintage Number 31


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/5/2009 6:37 AM
I MIGHT have to take that back that those are stock photos.
There is a link out there with a few more photos from the factory tour on a photobucket account.
And--if I'm not mistaken and you blow up the one photo with the rods sticking up you'll see it is a REVA.
Yep--A rod in an Indian motor that is made in India.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/5/2009 6:39 AM
What do you think of that bike?
I rode an 09 Road Master 9000 miles and didn't much care for it.
Wasn't a BAD ride while it was running--the trick was keeping it running and together.

Me?
I own a 2003 Cheef Vintage # 595.
50k miles on it and I wouldn't trade it for 2 Stellican bikes.

Vintage #31?
That bike was in Wichita, Kansas.
I sat on it at the dealership.

It was sold on ebay.

Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/5/2009 6:53 AM
mjdart said...
What going on at Kings Mountain - Americans working to produce a something we all love
As the old joke goes, who is this "We", paleface?  :p
 
Another overweight, overpriced, underpowered, and unreliable air-cooled v-twin cruiser?  We need that like we need another dishonest politician. 
 
What this American would "love" would be someone who has the ability to come up with a more original idea.  How about an American motorcycle with a modern, non-v-twin engine, a reasonable size (which to me would be 750cc or thereabouts) and sold for a reasonable price (say under $7500?)   
 
Start with a clean sheet of paper:  No old names, no old designs.  Something new, something exciting. 
 
Face facts:  Indian is just another "Me-too" Chopper company, only difference between them an OCC is that Indian doesn't have their own reality TV series (though maybe they should consider it...) 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : mjdart - 10/5/2009 8:37 AM
Yes, I bought #31 from Mark at Wichita, how did it feel, KC.........lol

Martin,

Something we all love........motorcycles

I have owned a Honda V-4, wouldn't buy another, perfect machine "just not my thing"


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : basshole - 10/5/2009 9:02 AM
mjdart said...
I own a 2009 Chief Vintage Number 31

SUCKER!!!!!!!!!! lol lol lol lol


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : louemc - 10/5/2009 10:02 AM
basshole said...
And for a mere 35k you too can be part of an image. I mean the bikes suck but ahhh, the image................yeah baby!!!

 
Yes, Image, as in the Mirage sense of the word. The only Indian motorcycle was made by the original Indian factory by skilled workers that did everything. They made everything. They knew how to do it, and why it was to do.
 
Everything since then was by imposters.  Low paid assembly workers. Pencil pushing bean counters that just bleed naive investers until that well runs dry, and folds.  Then New shysters gather new investers and aquire the license to use the name and insignia, and sell what they can package with sourced parts that have a look, to gullible bikers that don't know squat, but think a look is something.
 
As PT Barnium said  "there is a sucker born every Minute". 


 Focus the forces, Be The Force


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/5/2009 11:01 AM
mjdart said...Why didn't you show the other photos showing the guys who are assembling the bikes, and not just the corporate photos?
I didn't bother to look at all of them. I just chose two at random, but if you learn to pick the little icon that looks like the sun over a mountain, you can post photos too! Anyhow, these all look like publicity shots too. Did you take and composite them yourself? I'd be amazed, since you can't seem to work this simple dotnettbb forum. Anyhow, here are the rest:
I can't say I'm that impressed by what I see though. Very modest in terms of manufacturing tech.



"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : martinjmpr - 10/5/2009 11:10 AM
So I'm not understanding what those photos are supposed to prove.  That Indian motorcycles are put together by real people?  Well, I never doubted that they were.  The same thing could be said about every other boutique bike maker, though, so I don't get the point. 
 
The question to ask is, What is Indian?  Is it still an iconic brand (whatever that means?)  In this day and age, in this motorcycle market, does the name "Indian" really mean anything?   
 
No.  At this point "Indian" is just a name and a trademark that successive waves of con men have purchased in order to pry money from gullible investors and sell inferior products to starry-eyed suckers at inflated prices. 
 
 


Martin
 
Englewood, CO (Denver suburb)
 
UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) Fanatic
 
 


Posted By : Budoka - 10/5/2009 11:35 AM
Well said Martin. Sadly, for many the truth hurts.yeah


Same road, same wind in your face!


Posted By : basshole - 10/5/2009 12:22 PM
CaddmannQ said...
mjdart said...
Why didn't you show the other photos showing the guys who are assembling the bikes, and not just the corporate photos?I didn't bother to look at all of them. I just chose two at random, but if you learn to pick the little icon that looks like the sun over a mountain, you can post photos too! Anyhow, these all look like publicity shots too. Did you take and composite them yourself? I'd be amazed, since you can't seem to work this simple dotnettbb forum. Anyhow, here are the rest:




I can't say I'm that impressed by what I see though. Very modest in terms of manufacturing tech.




I sure see alot of empty racks. Not many components in inventory from what I see. Could the $$$$ well be drying up? I never understood the thought process behing production publicity shots that show a near empty facility and vitually no product on the "production line". What are they trying to say? That they are slow enough to have a $12.00 assembler take his sweet ass time puttin a bike together all the while daydreaming of having a job that didn't bore them to tears? Why not show pics of the executive offices so we can see where the $$$ is really going.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : mjdart - 10/5/2009 12:55 PM
I understand they only made 458 or so for the entire year. So the inventory won't be all that heavy. They make complete 2 bikes a day from what I understand.


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : Smitty - 10/5/2009 2:00 PM

Cadd & others even prior to my time of riding, being 1911 & some yrs before that, Indian was making a name for racing while HD was not top dog.  Then come 1911 the Indian was over at the Isle of Man TT with a gearbox in enough time for others like Norton, Matchless & so many of the brit makers had time to install a gear box WHICH allowed the Isle of Man to open the mountains for competition along with in the towns to streets.  With one in the hands of a British rider the Indian came in first to another two Indians places 2nd & 3rd.

The above to some other racing extablished the Indian name for racing while HD won a number it was not as important to the public & so some Indian were being purchased to thoug HD was also being bothered by Ford with its MASS PRODUCTION of cars so much easier to drive especially in the dirt roads so pupular in the USA.

After WWII Indian sort of faded out of the picture.  True they tried with some engineers with a vertical twin of some 500cc OHV.  Only saw one & it was in the hands of one of the better flat track rider on Indians in his prime.  YET this was a Scramble event & even my guttless wonder Royal Enfield 350cc out did the above.  First & last we ever saw of that "attempt after WWII Indian".

Now my Indian was a '39 Bonnyville Sport Scourt 45SV V-twin & all the "Bonnyville" stood out for was some chrome here to there to gearchange lever knob sort of round with an Indian head on it.  This including another older Indian to HD proved to be the bikes I used for flat tracking to dirt hill climbing not that they won or placed well. Throttle on the left as most Indians, to spark on the right grip, while clutch lever was toe/heel system only the WRONG way compared to most including HD riders.

Just that I was able to get parts from an Indian dealer who was another flat tracker & friend.  When I sold out the business in '50 He simply had to get back into bikes & joined the shop I use to own.  Meaning he would then be ideal with old Indians to old/new HD bikes while others specialized in British irons.

The skirt on the Indian Chief (then only a 45SV V-twin) was an actual bummer to the owner to us as shop dealers when it came to removing the wheels front or back.  To a friend of mine we found some old HD mudguards, to make up some brackets & FINALLY he had the Indian Chief to his liking at a cost.

So rather then waste my money on a present day Indian I can well remember the ones I had.  I need no more for I am a sportbike rider & not a cruiser man dead set on an Indian Chief, because of name. 



Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

Post Edited (Smitty) : 10/5/2009 9:05:37 PM GMT


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/5/2009 2:23 PM
Look at what's going on in American auto manufacturing and tell me that Americans don't dream of the golden age of motoring. They want the iconic vehicles of yesteryear.

This is what Indian has to sell, and it's a terriffic thing: dreams of the golden age in US motorcycles.

Now perhaps, as Smitty intimates, it was always little more than a dream (even in its heyday) but if they could hitch that dream to a bike that ran well and stayed together and didn't cost a fortune, I think they'd make a fortune.

Unfortunately it takes way more money and talent than the folks building Indians appear to have.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/5/2009 2:29 PM
basshole said...I sure see alot of empty racks. Not many components in inventory from what I see. Could the $$$$ well be drying up?
Actually, having inventory on hand isn't in keeping with the modern "just in time" philosophy of manufacturing.
 
You don't want to pay big inventory tax nor have to bear the cost to warehouse parts that you are making or outsourcing.
 
You arrange (as closely as possible) to have exactly what you need, exactly where you need it, and exactly when you nead it.
 
Not that I think Indian is all that sophisticated. Like you, I think they're just barely moving stuff down the line.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 

Post Edited (CaddmannQ) : 10/5/2009 9:39:29 PM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/5/2009 2:38 PM
mjdart said...
I understand they only made 458 or so for the entire year. So the inventory won't be all that heavy. They make complete 2 bikes a day from what I understand.

I don't understand your statement about the inventory not being all that heavy.
Have you ever been in a Stellican Dealership?
I was in 3 of them last month.
One was nothing but a shell.
Dealership closed and the bikes (except for 3 that wouldn't go onto a trailer) were all moved out and onto the next dealership.
One had 14 motorcycles in it--covered in dust.
One has no one answering the phone, and the doors were closed the last day of October.
You call another dealership they were associated with and they won't give out any information but they will put you down to have the owner call you back.
 
Do a little calling around mjdart and see how many 2009 bikes are left on the dealership floors.
I'm thinking if I were a dealer with 14 2009 motorcycles setting on my showroom floor and the middle of November is coming up fast I'd be a little concerned right about now.
And I'd be questioning the factory as to why the 2010 models were nothing but 2010 models with different paint.
Bombers and Dark Horses and a couple of other new paint schemes seems kind of cheezy to be calling them 2010s.
 
As for the 458?
I'm thinking you're off by about 150 there.
I been keeping pretty close track, and Nope--300 tops.
As for the building 2 a day?
Yeah--or something like that.:p

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/5/2009 2:43 PM
KC Cheef said...And I'd be questioning the factory as to why the 2010 models were nothing but 2010 models with different paint.
Nothing wrong with that if you have a good product in 2009 to continue on with.
 
I hate year-to-year change just so thing can be "new" and different.
 
But it looks like lots more than cosmetic changes were needed.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : basshole - 10/5/2009 3:42 PM
CaddmannQ said...
basshole said...
I sure see alot of empty racks. Not many components in inventory from what I see. Could the $$$$ well be drying up?
Actually, having inventory on hand isn't in keeping with the modern "just in time" philosophy of manufacturing.


You don't want to pay big inventory tax nor have to bear the cost to warehouse parts that you are making or outsourcing.



You arrange (as closely as possible) to have exactly what you need, exactly where you need it, and exactly when you nead it.



Not that I think Indian is all that sophisticated. Like you, I think they're just barely moving stuff down the line.

Seriously doubt they use JIT there. Not enough product data to track build a reliable inventory model I think. Really hard to forecast when you have no history or idea how things are going to go. I would imagine the placed orders for 12 months worth of materials with quarterly deliveries and then cancelled orders after 1 delivery maybe 2. I bet they have lot's of time to sweep the floors though.


Beer.....Helping ugly people get laid since 1853.
 
 


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/5/2009 6:14 PM
Well all I can tell you is the two times I was in there there was NOTHING on the shelves that looked like engine parts.
No jugs-cases-pistons-rods--nothing.
And the second time I was REALLY looking.

Posted By : mjdart - 10/5/2009 6:31 PM
As for the 458?
I'm thinking you're off by about 150 there.
I been keeping pretty close track, and Nope--300 tops.
As for the building 2 a day?
Yeah--or something like that.

Well that makes mine all the more rare. How many do you think are down here in Ft Lauderdale, I may have the only one, fine with me.


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : Smitty - 10/5/2009 6:51 PM

No I think there is one of the earlier Indians, of a few yrs ago, in city of Penticton & is asking top money for it. Mind you he has been saying that for the last year or two & that is as far as he has got.

What does one thing of when the word "Excelsior" in the name of m/cs?  They were rebuilt in a State, of where that State put a money into supporting them more then once, to a showcase that would stagger you, to even some of the workers were putting some of their working time into the cost of THEIR new Excelsior.

Have some of you forgotten that one?  For I think Indian is darn close to it.

I remember a flat tracking friend of mine in Montana back in the late 40s to early 50s recognized the slang & way I said things that sunnly he & another flat tracker felt it was that Crazy Smith up in Canada.  So he fed me a LOT of into as he was into vintage flat tracking road racing.  I feel he is no long on earth. 

Still he saw six of the Indians sit outside a shop for around a season & that was as far as they got.  Not that impressive.



Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

Post Edited (Smitty) : 10/6/2009 1:56:56 AM GMT


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/5/2009 7:37 PM
mjdart.
You'll be in for a surprise when you go to having the required maintenance done on it.
2500 mile maintenance schedule.
You better hop Stellican lets you get it serviced at a nearby independant dealership or you'll be riding 500 miles off that 2500 just to get the service work done on it.
Cost me almost $2000 to get to 8000 miles--if you add the rear tire it ended up being around $2400.
That's some kind of expensive service interval right there.

Actually there are quite a few Indians down in Fort Lauderdale.
At one time Florida had the biggest IIRA Chapters in the country.
That was before the West Coasters got hold of it and messed it all up with their politics and attitudes.
Let me know and I can hook you up with Big Chief.
He's someone you should get to know.

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/5/2009 7:47 PM
CaddmannQ said...
Look at what's going on in American auto manufacturing and tell me that Americans don't dream of the golden age of motoring. They want the iconic vehicles of yesteryear.

This is what Indian has to sell, and it's a terriffic thing: dreams of the golden age in US motorcycles.

Now perhaps, as Smitty intimates, it was always little more than a dream (even in its heyday) but if they could hitch that dream to a bike that ran well and stayed together and didn't cost a fortune, I think they'd make a fortune.

Unfortunately it takes way more money and talent than the folks building Indians appear to have.

Well said Caddmann.
I'll go from memory here and hope it comes close.
Hendee himself in his later years when asked what he thought of the state of affairs of the company he founded and left was rumored to have had a stock answer.
In essence he would reply.
Only a product honesty conceived and fairly priced will be successful.
Not an exact quote--but really close.
I'll try to find the exact quote.
 
Stellican fails on both counts.
They cloned a bike and hint strongly that the bike was inferior to theirs.
They overpriced and were caught up in greed.
Hendee has to be setting back laughing at this latest attempt.
 
Good luck and safe rides on that new Stellican bike mjdart.
Keep a close eye on the fork stops--be sure to learn how to tune the suspension-and if the oil light comes on--quit riding it no matter what the boys at the factory tell you.

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/5/2009 9:31 PM
KC Cheef said...
mjdart.
You'll be in for a surprise when you go to having the required maintenance done on it.
2500 mile maintenance schedule....
I'd sure hate to have to take my bike to anybody for maintenance. I do an oil change, plus gear oil & lube some minor stuff every 2500~3000 miles, but doing it myself means it only costs me around $25.
 
If I have to lube the shaft & swingarm (every 12,000) there's another $1 for solvent & grease.
 
Changing a tire costs me around $120 plus a little RuGlyde. I get around 12,000 miles a set.
 
Brake pads & fluid are dirt cheap. There's really little more to do on my bike.
 
It would kill me to pay a dealer to do all this stuff though. I'm just not interested in giving them my money.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 


Posted By : mjdart - 10/6/2009 2:07 AM

Like CaddmanQ, I do my own maintenance on everything I own. Wichita already did the 2000 mile service on the bike for me before it shipped, and it's got 1316 miles on it so its been tested. I've owned a lot of different vehicles over the years and I can't say I frequent service areas. As simple as a bike is I really don't expect rocket science will be needed here, heck if something acts up I'll just hook up the OB Diagnostic and read the code. Hell, my 1984 Harley FLHTC never saw the dealer after I rode it home. I guess some people don't get alone with machines, I've been working in auto assembly plants and power generation power plants for over 30 years and I've never come across a machine that can't be fixed.

 

 


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/6/2009 5:27 AM
I will agree with the both of you on the doing your own maintenance.
EXCEPT for the one I rode.
First mile I rode it the oil bag was foamed up so bad you couldn't read the stick.
The oil light kept coming on and staying on till cooled down.
Owner decided to use the dealerships to avoid any kind of questions later on.
A lot of the new ELITE Stellican riders would never be able to do their own maintenance and they'll pay big to have it done.

As for Wicita already having done the service?
Well--the interval calls for 500 miles service (cost $440 at the dealership I took the one I was riding to.)
Next would be the 2500 mile service so it looks like you got a tweener.

When you do service it--pay extra special attention to the primary chain tensioning.
Every dealership I had the 09 serviced at was VERY interested in whether I'd had a problem in there.
And be sure to order a few extra air cleaner gaskets.
When you pop the cover to service the filter your old gasket is NOT going back in right--it will grow on you.

Hey mjdart.
Is the one you bought the owners bike?
I saw it up on the table last time I was in there if it is the one with the read and cream fringe.
That thing had the bluest pipes I have ever seen on any motorcycle.
Exhaust flange to tail pipe tip the prettiest blue I've ever seen.
And?
Did the dealership punch the holes in the exhaust baffle to make it a little "throatier"?
If they did I'd be wondering about having that exhaust tinkered with next time you take it in for inspection I hear Florida is a little tough on that now days.
 
One thing I'll GUARANTEE!!
If that is the owners bike it has been REALLY tested.
I've seen him ride it.

Posted By : mjdart - 10/7/2009 2:15 AM
I've got the Turqouise & White Chief, curious about the oil foaming, I did check my dipstick after riding a few miles. What did they say caused that? The dealer did the 2500 mile service for me before shipping. Also I didn't see any bluing on the exhaust, could be caused by an over rich fuel condition.o more inspections in Florida that I know about, maybe local police have a decibel meter they use for ticketing?


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/7/2009 5:51 AM
No foaming?
Maybe you better call Kings Mountain.
I was told the foaming oil was normal.
You might have a problem if yours isn't foaming.
Congrats on the new ride.

Posted By : CaddmannQ - 10/7/2009 6:21 AM
Too much foaming?

Obviously Madam, yer puttin' too much detergent into yer top-loading automatic!
Either that or you gotta big bra...

Because something is cloggin' up yer lint filter!


(...with apologies to George Carlin)

HehHehHeh...Ummmm..lessee...


Foaming in a wet sump is usually caused by overfilling. The crank whips up the oil into a froth.

But in a dry sump it's perhaps the scavenge pump sucking in too much air with the oil through a loose gasket or fitting. (Or a porous casting? That's never happened right?)
 
The Indian has a pressure pump and a scavenge pump, right?
 
Now if the pressure pump was supplying too much pressure, or the bearings were "running" (too loose) then perhaps the crank could be whipping oil even in a dry sump engine.


"When in doubt, ride."
Cadd................................Clovis CA
2004 Nomad 1500............"Baggins"
caddmannq at yahoo dot com
 

Post Edited (CaddmannQ) : 10/7/2009 1:25:57 PM GMT


Posted By : mjdart - 10/7/2009 9:16 AM
No foaming?
Maybe you better call Kings Mountain.
I was told the foaming oil was normal.
You might have a problem if yours isn't foaming.
Congrats on the new ride.

That's actually pretty funny

Too much foaming?

Obviously Madam, yer puttin' too much detergent into yer top-loading automatic!
Either that or you gotta big bra...

Because something is cloggin' up yer lint filter!

(...with apologies to George Carlin)

HehHehHeh...Ummmm..lessee...

And that is too.................


2009 Indian Chief Vintage #31


Posted By : harleynutnot - 10/8/2009 11:25 PM

If your Indian is foaming, you should take it to Starbucks. They know how to stop the foaming as well as the advice I see posted here!

Dude rode one 09 Indian..... with an agenda........tore it apart and thought nobody would notice.....he left out the part where it didn't get put back together correctly.....how do you "Test Ride" so many motorcycles when you are online 18 hours a day?

Yo MJ, enjoy your new bike, I know you are very excited and proud of it! That paint scheme is #1..err #31 to all of us in FLA.! (frickin los angeles) Bad Ass color combo! Your bike will look like a million dollars when you roll into any hangout in the Keys and park next to the HOG FARMERS. Be prepared to spend 15 minutes talking about your Indian wihile the chicks stare at your ride and tell their "old Men" that they should get and Indian.... 

Awesome bike, ride it in flip flops and shorts if ya want. Drives the wannabee bikers nuts.

Calfornia is coming online soon with a dealership and the winds will again blow east to west......these same people said Indian will never build a motorcycle, never sell x amount of bikes a year, blah , blah, blah,.......

...yee haw.!

 

 

Posted By : Sid8d - 10/9/2009 2:21 AM
I am sorry, how many miles have you ridden an 09 for Harleynutnot? KC has delivered some bonified facts here, validated by Indian. Your acusations of him, "taking the bike apart and not putting back together right", how do you know that?  

Posted By : KC Cheef - 10/9/2009 5:29 AM
harleynutnot said...
If your Indian is foaming, you should take it to Starbucks. They know how to stop the foaming as well as the advice I see posted here!

Dude rode one 09 Indian..... with an agenda........tore it apart and thought nobody would notice.....he left out the part where it didn't get put back together correctly.....how do you "Test Ride" so many motorcycles when you are online 18 hours a day?

Yo MJ, enjoy your new bike, I know you are very excited and proud of it! That paint scheme is #1..err #31 to all of us in FLA.! (frickin los angeles) Bad Ass color combo! Your bike will look like a million dollars when you roll into any hangout in the Keys and park next to the HOG FARMERS. Be prepared to spend 15 minutes talking about your Indian wihile the chicks stare at your ride and tell their "old Men" that they should get and Indian....

Awesome bike, ride it in flip flops and shorts if ya want. Drives the wannabee bikers nuts.

Calfornia is coming online soon with a dealership and the winds will again blow east to west......these same people said Indian will never build a motorcycle, never sell x amount of bikes a year, blah , blah, blah,.......

...yee haw.!


Well hello Harleynot.
Good to see you join the discussion.
As for the riding the 09 8790 miles?
Yep I did it.
One mile at a time and a lot of those miles were hard earned on it.
You and your buds don't seem to understand that it IS possible to ride a motorcycle 1000--1500 miles in a weekend.
Hell--I had those miles put on in 6 months--and a lot of that time the bike was in the shop--or broken down.
Hell--I rode the 09 1000 miles in 18 hours when I was bringing it back home from the factory after it was stolen and rebuilt.
Those short hop